School Choice

[AllieBaba]

Not all private schools are parochial.
Other than that, I'm not sure what you're saying.

 

[Samson]

And yes count - the avg. teacher salary in NJ is $55K, but the average classroom cost in these urban schools is close to $400K. Where's the money going? (Rhetorical question of course.)

The mystery of Public School Budgets is sort of amazing to me.

If anyone can find anything like an "Income Statement" for a Public School System, then please let me know. I can guarantee it won't be easy to decipher.

I picked one at random, that's pretty "easy" to read: The Indianapolis Public School's 2010budget. On page 11 it finally gets around to 'splaining on what they spend money.

93% is on

The major expense category of the General Fund, after
paying the state approximately $22,000,000 for IPS'
share of the federal court ordered desegregation cost, is
compensation for staff (e.g. teachers, custodians, clerical
support personnel, school administrators, general
support personnel etc.), which represents 93.2% of the
remaining budget. Approximately 4,042 FTE (full time
equivalent budget positions at 8 hours per day) staff
positions are paid from the General Fund.

The General Fund is $303 million, so payroll is about $280 million of a $584 million annual budget.

Where does the other $304 million go?

About a third goes to something called "Special Funded Programs"

Special Funded Programs are programs that are funded
for a specific purpose. The total sum of these programs
represents 15.67% ($91,551,257) of the IPS combined
budget (all funds). Revenue related to these programs
cannot be used for any other purpose and usually exists
for a limited period of time, generally a school year.
Some federally supported programs such as Title I have
existed for several years and are funded annually.
FUNDING SOURCES
Federal dollars represent 99.73% of total revenue, with
the remaining 0.27% coming from local foundations and
private enterprises.

Where does the remaining $200 million go?

Basically Debt retirement, Busses, Buliding and Maintaining, and Retirement.

 

[AquaAthena]

I'm glad my children go to private school.

Public schools are in the shitter around here. 300 teachers laid off in my county, class sizes now at 40 students per teacher, at the middle school level art, music and athletics are being canceled, and they are discussing the idea of going to a 4 day school week at 9 hours per day and canceling PE.

So they're going to put 40 middle schoolers in a room with one teacher, not allow them a physical release through PE, not allow them a creative release through art or music, and basically lecture them on the "3 R's" for 9 hours.
Kids need more than that. Much, much, much more. They are setting up these kids for failure, not success.

American students are well behind several countries in those basic courses...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not all private schools are parochial.
Other than that, I'm not sure what you're saying.

"The majority of school-age children in private school attend parochial schools."

I'm saying that it is bogus to say:
"So people who can't afford private schools shouldn't have kids?"

 

[RadiomanATL]

I'm glad my children go to private school.

Public schools are in the shitter around here. 300 teachers laid off in my county, class sizes now at 40 students per teacher, at the middle school level art, music and athletics are being canceled, and they are discussing the idea of going to a 4 day school week at 9 hours per day and canceling PE.

So they're going to put 40 middle schoolers in a room with one teacher, not allow them a physical release through PE, not allow them a creative release through art or music, and basically lecture them on the "3 R's" for 9 hours.
Kids need more than that. Much, much, much more. They are setting up these kids for failure, not success.

American students are well behind several countries in those basic courses...

But stripping everything else out of the equation isn't the answer.

 

[rdean]

Yea, let the public schools fail.

Put children in religious schools to ensure they stay ignorant and can't compete.

It's not enough to turn everything to shit. We want to make sure it STAYS that way.

 

[chanel]

And yes count - the avg. teacher salary in NJ is $55K, but the average classroom cost in these urban schools is close to $400K. Where's the money going? (Rhetorical question of course.)

The mystery of Public School Budgets is sort of amazing to me.

If anyone can find anything like an "Income Statement" for a Public School System, then please let me know. I can guarantee it won't be easy to decipher.

I picked one at random, that's pretty "easy" to read: The Indianapolis Public School's 2010budget. On page 11 it finally gets around to 'splaining on what they spend money.

93% is on

The major expense category of the General Fund, after
paying the state approximately $22,000,000 for IPS'
share of the federal court ordered desegregation cost, is
compensation for staff (e.g. teachers, custodians, clerical
support personnel, school administrators, general
support personnel etc.), which represents 93.2% of the
remaining budget. Approximately 4,042 FTE (full time
equivalent budget positions at 8 hours per day) staff
positions are paid from the General Fund.

The General Fund is $303 million, so payroll is about $280 million of a $584 million annual budget.

Where does the other $304 million go?

About a third goes to something called "Special Funded Programs"

Special Funded Programs are programs that are funded
for a specific purpose. The total sum of these programs
represents 15.67% ($91,551,257) of the IPS combined
budget (all funds). Revenue related to these programs
cannot be used for any other purpose and usually exists
for a limited period of time, generally a school year.
Some federally supported programs such as Title I have
existed for several years and are funded annually.
FUNDING SOURCES
Federal dollars represent 99.73% of total revenue, with
the remaining 0.27% coming from local foundations and
private enterprises.

Where does the remaining $200 million go?

Basically Debt retirement, Busses, Buliding and Maintaining, and Retirement.

It's far too complicated for me, but when you consider that most schools now have social workers, case managers, substance abuse counselors, physical therapists, occupational therapists, speech and language specialists, ESL instructors, psychologists, etc. it starts to add up. One "at risk" child can have a team of specialists making plans to see that Johnny gets a diploma. And the irony is that don't give a rat's ass if he has earned it. It matters not whether Johnny can read. What matters is that the adults justify their jobs.

Oh. And of course, the CORRUPTION tax that NJ is famous for.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yea, let the public schools fail.

Put children in religious schools to ensure they stay ignorant and can't compete.

It's not enough to turn everything to shit. We want to make sure it STAYS that way.

Will you stop trying to prove that you are the dumbest poster!!

OK...consider it documented.

BTW,

i. Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction;
ii. The Catholic high schools graduated 95 percent of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more 50 percent of their senior class;
iii. The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students' average combined SAT score was 642;
iv. 60 percent of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and over 70 percent of public school black students scored below the same national average.
 More recent studies confirm these observations. Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-City Children | The Heritage Foundation

Besides the annual winner in the DUMBEST POSTER contest, I'm thinking of entering you in the CONSISTENTLY WRONG competition.

Up for it?

 

[Samson]

And yes count - the avg. teacher salary in NJ is $55K, but the average classroom cost in these urban schools is close to $400K. Where's the money going? (Rhetorical question of course.)

The mystery of Public School Budgets is sort of amazing to me.

If anyone can find anything like an "Income Statement" for a Public School System, then please let me know. I can guarantee it won't be easy to decipher.

I picked one at random, that's pretty "easy" to read: The Indianapolis Public School's 2010budget. On page 11 it finally gets around to 'splaining on what they spend money.

93% is on



The General Fund is $303 million, so payroll is about $280 million of a $584 million annual budget.

Where does the other $304 million go?

About a third goes to something called "Special Funded Programs"

Special Funded Programs are programs that are funded
for a specific purpose. The total sum of these programs
represents 15.67% ($91,551,257) of the IPS combined
budget (all funds). Revenue related to these programs
cannot be used for any other purpose and usually exists
for a limited period of time, generally a school year.
Some federally supported programs such as Title I have
existed for several years and are funded annually.
FUNDING SOURCES
Federal dollars represent 99.73% of total revenue, with
the remaining 0.27% coming from local foundations and
private enterprises.

Where does the remaining $200 million go?

Basically Debt retirement, Busses, Buliding and Maintaining, and Retirement.

It's far too complicated for me, but when you consider that most schools now have social workers, case managers, substance abuse counselors, physical therapists, occupational therapists, speech and language specialists, ESL instructors, psychologists, etc. it starts to add up. One "at risk" child can have a team of specialists making plans to see that Johnny gets a diploma. And the irony is that don't give a rat's ass if he has earned it. It matters not whether Johnny can read. What matters is that the adults justify their jobs.

Oh. And of course, the CORRUPTION tax that NJ is famous for.

A lot of what you've described is funded through your district's "Special Funded Program" budget, which comes from the Feds. The "adults that justify their jobs" are in Washington D.C. in the Dept of Education Building

The Administration is seeking $50.7 billion in discretionary appropriations for the Department of Education, an increase of $4.5 billion over the comparable discretionary total provided in the 2010 appropriations act. The total increase includes up to $1 billion the Administration would request in a budget amendment only if Congress completes an ESEA reauthorization that includes the President's proposed reforms.

 

[chanel]

Isn't that still part of the budget? Whether its federal, state, or local money?
The head of the E3 has stated that bank robbers rob banks because "that's where the money is" So can be said of the billions spent on public schools.

I'm wondering if any other states have outlawed expulsion. In NJ, we pay for private tutors in jail. Because if they don't graduate, they might choose crime or something,

Oh and 21 out of 22 charter school applications were denied last year. The DOE doesn't like them.

 

[jillian]

So people who can't afford private schools shouldn't have kids?

That's not elitist at all.

no. but they should educate their kids in public schools... same as kids from homes with less money don't get the right to a mcmansion.

 

[Samson]

Isn't that still part of the budget? Whether its federal, state, or local money?
The head of the E3 has stated that bank robbers rob banks because "that's where the money is" So can be said of the billions spent on public schools.

I'm wondering if any other states have outlawed expulsion. In NJ, we pay for private tutors in jail. Because if they don't graduate, they might choose crime or something,

Oh and 21 out of 22 charter school applications were denied last year. The DOE doesn't like them.

Yes its still part of the budget, but increasing it doesn't bother local taxpayers.

If a district can, it will push a program into the category that the Feds will budget (Special Education).

This is why the IPSD has a "Director of Minority Procurement."

 

[xsited1]

...

School Choice Bill Heads To Full Senate Vote - New Jersey 101.5 FM

How does it work in your state? Can vouchers be used for religious schools? Can anyone qualify or is it just based on need?

Vouchers are available for students living in low-income households, but it's usually for young kids that require child care. I don't believe vouchers are available in Arkansas.

I'm weary of this whole voucher idea. To me, this just gives the government another way to influence private schools. I'd prefer they stay out of it. I don't want the government telling private schools which kids they can and cannot admit.

 

[uscitizen]

Darned socialistic school system.

If you cannot afford to educate your children then don't have any.

Yes. And if you don't want them to be shot, move out of the city.

So simple, eh?

Yep. simple.

 

[Samson]

Darned socialistic school system.

If you cannot afford to educate your children then don't have any.

Yes. And if you don't want them to be shot, move out of the city.

So simple, eh?

Yep. simple.

You're from the Planet Vulcan, aren't you.

 

[uscitizen]

Yes. And if you don't want them to be shot, move out of the city.

So simple, eh?

Yep. simple.

You're from the Planet Vulcan, aren't you.

Been there, not from there though.

Ahh but the old myths of personal responsibility and libertarianism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

...

School Choice Bill Heads To Full Senate Vote - New Jersey 101.5 FM

How does it work in your state? Can vouchers be used for religious schools? Can anyone qualify or is it just based on need?

Vouchers are available for students living in low-income households, but it's usually for young kids that require child care. I don't believe vouchers are available in Arkansas.

I'm weary of this whole voucher idea. To me, this just gives the government another way to influence private schools. I'd prefer they stay out of it. I don't want the government telling private schools which kids they can and cannot admit.

Xey, I am in favor of universal vouchers, but I wonder about this. Some districts allow vouchers as in "Vouchers are available for students living in low-income households..."

Shouldn't this be a 14th amendment issue, as in equal before the law?

Whadda you think?

 

[rdean]

Yea, let the public schools fail.

Put children in religious schools to ensure they stay ignorant and can't compete.

It's not enough to turn everything to shit. We want to make sure it STAYS that way.

Will you stop trying to prove that you are the dumbest poster!!

OK...consider it documented.

BTW,

i. Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction;
ii. The Catholic high schools graduated 95 percent of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more 50 percent of their senior class;
iii. The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students' average combined SAT score was 642;
iv. 60 percent of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and over 70 percent of public school black students scored below the same national average.
 More recent studies confirm these observations. Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-City Children | The Heritage Foundation

Besides the annual winner in the DUMBEST POSTER contest, I'm thinking of entering you in the CONSISTENTLY WRONG competition.

Up for it?

You use the "Heritage Foundation" as "proof"? And you call me "dumb"?

 

[bodecea]

I am totally for school choice. Schools should be able to choose what students they take and/or keep.

 

[jeffrockit]

Yea, let the public schools fail.

Put children in religious schools to ensure they stay ignorant and can't compete.

It's not enough to turn everything to shit. We want to make sure it STAYS that way.

No one is "letting" the public schools fail, they are doing it on their own no matter how much money has been dumped into education. I fail to see how anyone disagrees with bettering our children's education. The facts are that the unions and the politicians that are beholding to the unions are ruining the public education system.
Dennis Byrne on school vouchers - chicagotribune.com