Same-Gender Marriage

[Bullypulpit]

Thus far, the arguments for prohibiting the marriage of same-gender couples have all lacked a fundamental premise...Demonstrable harm to the indivduals involved or to society. By failing to prove demostrable harm, the opponents of same-gender marriage have no reason to prohibit such unions beyond their own prejudices.

Also, the arguments against same-gender marriage are rooted in the same fallacious arguments used to perpetuate the anti-miscegenation laws of the Jim Crowe era. Such arguments are no more valid now than they were then.

Of course, you have those who argue that gays do have the right to marry...someone of the opposite gender. Outside of those cultures which encourage arranged marriages, we do not force individuals to marry someone not of their choosing. But some would prefer the hypocrisy of a sham marriage to open, honest and loving relationships between same-gender couples.

My wife and I voted against Issue 1 in Ohio because it is unjust, it is discriminatory and it does adversely impact the lives of so many others.
It was a piece of legislation motivated, not by concern for the society as a whole, but by the fear and bigotry of a few.

 

[dilloduck]

Gays simply want America to recognize them with equal access to everything to make up for their unwillingness to accept resposibilty for their life style. They already can live in a loving realtionship. Why do they have to call it marriage? I can even support them having some of the rights that marriage includes (partner benefits, insurance coverage etc.) but why can't the guys simply claim that they are married. Is it becuase of the depression that results from being unable to produce offspring? Being legally married won't change that.

 

[Joan]

I have no problem in offering benefits to long term relationship couples, be they married or not (i.e., medical coverage, death benefits etc), but when it comes to marriage - I am against it. You can always make vows to each other without the benefit of a wedding. I have known a few men in long term relationships with other men, and I do know that they are allowed to cover their "significant other" on their medical benefits. Where would it stop, a step-father wanting to marry his 15 year old daughter - I can only imagine what would come next. I also see no reason the gays cannot adopt children, I knew one gay woman who has adopted two, and a more devoted mother you would never find. Just because someone has different sexual preferences does not necessarily make them an automatic child molester!

 

[eric]

Thus far, the arguments for prohibiting the marriage of same-gender couples have all lacked a fundamental premise...Demonstrable harm to the indivduals involved or to society

Personally, I think you are missing the point. This issue has nothing to do with harm to others, and everthing to do with tradition, which is currently under attack in this country. All one needs to do is to look at the lawsuits filled all over this nation; to take the words under God out of the pledge and off of our money, to take prayer (or a moment of silence) out of our schools and references to God out of our courts. To take away a parents fundamental right to decide what his or her children will be taught in school, to even go as far as suing a school because a student was punished for telling his teacher to go Fu** off, that somehow his freedom of speech was violated. The list goes on and on.

It is our traditions that are under attack, and marriage is an important one to most Americans. What we are seeing is more a defense of the tradition of marriage, rather than bigotry or hatred toward same sex couples. For if it were hate, then most Americans would not want to allow civil unions, which most polls show Americans are not adverse too.

You want equal rights, you can have them, just leave the institution of marriage a tradition as it has always been !

 

[Mr. P]

......
My wife and I voted against Issue 1 in Ohio because it is unjust, it is discriminatory and it does adversely impact the lives of so many others.
It was a piece of legislation motivated, not by concern for the society as a whole, but by the fear and bigotry of a few.

I disagree Bully....There's nothing wrong with discrimination in the context of right or wrong, positive or negative benefit. I bet you discriminate everyday. I'm sure there are places in town you won't go for fear of possible crime, positive discrimination for you. Maybe merchants you won't visit due to price, quality or service, another positive discrimination for you. I'm sure there are many more discriminations you practice everyday. Why would you think society should be any different?

Is societies anti-same sex marriage movement discriminatory? Yes. But is it a positive or negative? Is the sentence for Armed robbery different than just plain ole robbery? Yes. Discriminatory? Yes. Positive? Yes.
All for the benefit of society? Yes.

Does the anti-same sex marriage ban adversely impact the lives of others? No. Since it's not a ban on a current legal practice it has no negative effect. Would allowing same sex marriage effect many others? You bet you ass it would. The next group up is who, pedafiles that want to marry 8 year olds? Then the folks that want more than one wife. Then the ones that want one wife to be same sex and one to be the opposite sex. Or how about the Moron that wants to marry a sheep? What a wonderful positive to society that would be.

The question must be this, is same sex marriage a discrimination that is positive for the Country, for society as a whole? I think the answer is YES! The fiber of our societies morals, family values, have been greatly damaged and diluted over the past 30 years, it's time to stand up an say ENOUGH. Which is what happened on Nov.2nd.

So Bully...where do "You" stop? What line do you draw? I hope it's not the "if it feels good do it" line, that line of thinking is partly responsible for where we are today.

My wife and I voted for the amendment in my state.

 

[OCA]

Bully see the results from the 11 states that had anti-queer marriage measures? OVERWHELMINGLY NO MARRIAGE! Valid points have been made hundreds of times you simply refuse to acknowledge them, its your side who is wrong, your time for your views have long past.

I hope you relish being an antiquated dinosaur.

 

[5stringJeff]

Bully, the problem with gay marriage is that it legitimatizes a practice (homosexuality) that most Americans do not want to be legitimatized. Being an evangelical Christian, I base many of my arguments against gay marriage on my faith; however, there is plenty of empirical evidence out there that shows that children raised by gay parents are more likely to have mental disorders, more likely to commit crimes, and more likely to practice homosexuality themselves. (Source: Marriage Under Fire by James Dobson) So to say that gay marriage causes nobody harm is, in fact, false.

I will also say, though, that almost nobody besides Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson wants to outlaw homosexuality, though many Americans see it as immoral.

 

[Merlin1047]

Thus far, the arguments for prohibiting the marriage of same-gender couples have all lacked a fundamental premise...Demonstrable harm to the indivduals involved or to society. By failing to prove demostrable harm, the opponents of same-gender marriage have no reason to prohibit such unions beyond their own prejudices.

Well Bully, since you're such a huge proponent of same-sex marriage, why don't you quit talking about it and get a bit more personally involved? Find yourself a nice lad and marry him.

Let me know when the nuptials are scheduled. I'll send you a case of vaseline - or 50 weight motor oil - your preference.

 

[007]

My God... here we go again. Another liberal dumping another stinking bucket of "why we should all accept fags" over our heads.

What you fail to realize pulit, and all your homosexual agenda pumping idiot cohorts as well, is that the more you sling this perverted stench at us, the more we dislike it, and with that, the more we'll oppose it.

Shutting up about it would be your best discourse. But I guess you haven't the brains to figure that out.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Personally, I think you are missing the point. This issue has nothing to do with harm to others, and everthing to do with tradition, which is currently under attack in this country. All one needs to do is to look at the lawsuits filled all over this nation; to take the words under God out of the pledge and off of our money, to take prayer (or a moment of silence) out of our schools and references to God out of our courts. To take away a parents fundamental right to decide what his or her children will be taught in school, to even go as far as suing a school because a student was punished for telling his teacher to go Fu** off, that somehow his freedom of speech was violated. The list goes on and on.

It is our traditions that are under attack, and marriage is an important one to most Americans. What we are seeing is more a defense of the tradition of marriage, rather than bigotry or hatred toward same sex couples. For if it were hate, then most Americans would not want to allow civil unions, which most polls show Americans are not adverse too.

You want equal rights, you can have them, just leave the institution of marriage a tradition as it has always been !

Simply because a thing is traditional does not mean that it is good.

Same gender couples who wish to marry are expressing their willingness to take up the responsibilities that marriage entails. The desire is not for special rights, but the same rights as traditional couples enjoy.

Again, if you cannot demonstrate real harm to either the individuals or to society, your argument regardless of its reliance on tradtion, is without merit.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Well Bully, since you're such a huge proponent of same-sex marriage, why don't you quit talking about it and get a bit more personally involved? Find yourself a nice lad and marry him.

Let me know when the nuptials are scheduled. I'll send you a case of vaseline - or 50 weight motor oil - your preference.

I'm sorry, but my wife would object most strenuously. You, like so many others, wrongly conclude that my advocacy for same-gender marriage implies that I am gay. I'm simply secure enough in my own sexuality that I am not threatened by homosexuality.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Gays simply want America to recognize them with equal access to everything to make up for their unwillingness to accept resposibilty for their life style. They already can live in a loving realtionship. Why do they have to call it marriage? I can even support them having some of the rights that marriage includes (partner benefits, insurance coverage etc.) but why can't the guys simply claim that they are married. Is it becuase of the depression that results from being unable to produce offspring? Being legally married won't change that.

What could be more responsible than entering into the state of matrimony. We regard traditional couples marriage as emminently responsible...Why should same-gender couples be regarded any differently?

 

[Bullypulpit]

I disagree Bully....There's nothing wrong with discrimination in the context of right or wrong, positive or negative benefit. I bet you discriminate everyday. I'm sure there are places in town you won't go for fear of possible crime, positive discrimination for you. Maybe merchants you won't visit due to price, quality or service, another positive discrimination for you. I'm sure there are many more discriminations you practice everyday. Why would you think society should be any different?

Is societies anti-same sex marriage movement discriminatory? Yes. But is it a positive or negative? Is the sentence for Armed robbery different than just plain ole robbery? Yes. Discriminatory? Yes. Positive? Yes.
All for the benefit of society? Yes.

Does the anti-same sex marriage ban adversely impact the lives of others? No. Since it's not a ban on a current legal practice it has no negative effect. Would allowing same sex marriage effect many others? You bet you ass it would. The next group up is who, pedafiles that want to marry 8 year olds? Then the folks that want more than one wife. Then the ones that want one wife to be same sex and one to be the opposite sex. Or how about the Moron that wants to marry a sheep? What a wonderful positive to society that would be.

The question must be this, is same sex marriage a discrimination that is positive for the Country, for society as a whole? I think the answer is YES! The fiber of our societies morals, family values, have been greatly damaged and diluted over the past 30 years, it's time to stand up an say ENOUGH. Which is what happened on Nov.2nd.

So Bully...where do "You" stop? What line do you draw? I hope it's not the "if it feels good do it" line, that line of thinking is partly responsible for where we are today.

My wife and I voted for the amendment in my state.

You equate criminal behavior with homosexuality? How primitive.

As for the line I draw, it is where one's actions lead to the harm of oneself, another or both. There is no demonstrable harm in permitting same-gender couples to marry.

 

[freeandfun1]

I'm sorry, but my wife would object most strenuously. You, like so many others, wrongly conclude that my advocacy for same-gender marriage implies that I am gay. I'm simply secure enough in my own sexuality that I am not threatened by homosexuality.

Bully, you and your liberal friends JUST DON'T GET IT!

I have many friends that are gay, I am a conservative, and EVEN MANY OF MY GAY FRIENDS believe that gay MARRIAGE is wrong. They realize that trying to force-feed the term on the American people is divisive. They realize that civil unions, which me and many other conservatives are willing to accept, is enough.

It is not that people are homophobic, they just want to keep some things traditional. There is nothing wrong with that. It is a tradition that you don't marry until you are old enough, are you suggesting that since tradition is not a good enough reason to be against gay marriage that it is also not a good enough reason to be against child marriage, pedophilia, etc.?

Why can't they just enter into a civil union and call it a "Love Union"?

You and your ilk are trying to force-feed this on the American people and as the election showed, it AIN'T gonna work!

 

[Bullypulpit]

Bully see the results from the 11 states that had anti-queer marriage measures? OVERWHELMINGLY NO MARRIAGE! Valid points have been made hundreds of times you simply refuse to acknowledge them, its your side who is wrong, your time for your views have long past.

I hope you relish being an antiquated dinosaur.

As I hope you relish being a fossil. Were the points valid, I would cheerfully acknowledge them. Since you have nothing genuinely useful to add to the conversation, you are dismissed.

 

[007]

HA HA HA!!! The only post pulit DIDN'T respond to was MINE! LMAO! Tells me he can't debate the point that people would like him and his queer agenda ilk to just SHUT THE FUCK UP already.

The more people get this sick shit thrown at them, the more they dislike it, and that includes people who may have been indifferent about it, until they had it shoved at them time after time. Now they dislike it, and it's all the queer loving "you all MUST ACCEPT it" crowds fault. They're shooting themselves in the foot on this issue, and they're too fucking stupid to realize it.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Bully, you and your liberal friends JUST DON'T GET IT!

I have many friends that are gay, I am a conservative, and EVEN MANY OF MY GAY FRIENDS believe that gay MARRIAGE is wrong. They realize that trying to force-feed the term on the American people is divisive. They realize that civil unions, which me and many other conservatives are willing to accept, is enough.

It is not that people are homophobic, they just want to keep some things traditional. There is nothing wrong with that. It is a tradition that you don't marry until you are old enough, are you suggesting that since tradition is not a good enough reason to be against gay marriage that it is also not a good enough reason to be against child marriage, pedophilia, etc.?

Why can't they just enter into a civil union and call it a "Love Union"?

You and your ilk are trying to force-feed this on the American people and as the election showed, it AIN'T gonna work!

Forcing children into marriage and/or sex acts is crimnal behavior and not to be equated with a loving committed relationship between two adults of the same, or different gender. Your attempts to equate them merely invalidate your argument.

 

[007]

You're showing your spineless, yellow bellied, coward, snake in the grass attributes pulit.

But I don't care. I know I'm right about what I've written... TWICE! And so do you. That's why you won't go near it.

Your stupidity is staggering. You're shaking the bee hive here and getting stung, but you're too ignorant to let it go.

Well... just keep at it then. Turn more people off about it. You're only hurting yourself.

 

[freeandfun1]

Forcing children into marriage and/or sex acts is crimnal behavior and not to be equated with a loving committed relationship between two adults of the same, or different gender. Your attempts to equate them merely invalidate your argument.

it is criminal today. but if we follow your logic, since it is based on tradition in this country (many countries allow children to marry and marry off girls to men at VERY young ages) then some day we might want to change that tradition.

So my argument is valid. You just will not acknowledge it.

 

[jimnyc]

Your attempts to equate them merely invalidate your argument.

Seems to me as if your argument was invalidated on Nov 2nd. And I'm quite sure it'll continue down that path as more states have an opportunity to vote on the issue. So whine, cry, bitch & swear the arguments are invalid - but homosexual marriages will not be accepted. I have no need to have you validate mine and so many others beliefs, we'll speak with our votes.