'S.C. Republican: Aid like feeding strays'

[DiamondDave]

No... your personal hunger or Joe McSixPack's personal upkeep is not OUR problem... your personal wants, needs, and problems are indeed YOUR problems and YOUR responsibility

So you agree with the Republican that we should let the poor starve?

Your income is on you.. if you don't want to work a second job or do what it takes to get ahead, too bad, too sad....

We're discussing those not able, not those unwilling.

Nice try, Mr. Herring.

No corporation RULES your life... you have the FREEDOM to choose what corporation you wish to use the services of or buy the products of....

Tell that to those who live in company towns.

I agree that every able bodied and/or able bodied citizen that is not a ward of the state is responsible for their own upkeep, feeding, care, etc... and that if you, I, or anyone else wishes to help those in need (whether it be hunger, medical care, after school programs, or anything else), that you are free to donate to those causes all you want... knock your socks off... I support a good amount of charities I consider worthwhile

As stated.. if you are TRULY unable, you are a ward of the state or under the care of your family... unfortunately, the term unable in the liberal mindset is incorrect... most are able, but unwilling to do more or do what it takes.... and that is THEIR problem

Name one company town where all housing, food, etc is under total control of a company... name one person in this nation (other than prisoners and wards of the state) that do not have the freedom to live in whatever area they choose, patronize whatever business they wish, buy whatever good they wish with whatever monies they earn

We'll be waiting

 

[beowolfe]

Providing for the weak, sick, elderly is OUR problem. The fact that only the very wealthy can afford any degree of health care out of pocket and are the only ones that can afford insurance out of pocket is OUR problem. Educating our children to be competitive and productive in a global society is OUR problem. Keeping corporations from ruling (and ruining) our lives is OUR problem. Leaders who lie us into wars for $$$ agendas is OUR problem. Clean air, water and safe work places is OUR problem. When income disparity gets so lopsided in favor of so few that our economy grinds to a halt, that is OUR problem. When a huge group of people are no longer able to work full time jobs and survive, that is OUR problem. You are not allowed to force your corporatist ideals on us either. They are proving toxic to our country time and again (and again and again) and will destroy it if left unchecked. Please prove me wrong with examples if you disagree.

So what exactly isn't "OUR" problem? Sounds like everything is our problem, so might as well tax everyone at 100% and let the government decide if and when we eat, what we eat, if we can go to the doctor and what for. If we're allowed to work, and if so, what will our vocation be? Or am i just being an capitalist pig?

It would seem to me that you're intentionally beiing an azzhat. No one can ensure their prosperity in isolation. There is no such thing as a 'self made man' or woman. Everyone depends on everyone else for their livelihood. Sometime you guys act as if your lives would be exactly as they are now if you were on a planet alone. Because you come across as 'I did it all by myself'. You didn't.

You had a parent who took a 'blank slate' and turned it into a human being capable of being educated. You have had several teachers helping you to fill up that grey matter. You've had one or more employers who took a chance that you were what your resume said you were. You have supervisors and co-workers who actually taught you how to do your job.

If you have been self employed all of your adult life, then you've had customer after customer and supplier after supplier and employee after employee assist you in the development and growth of your business. And these are only the people who gave you direct help. Humans are ALL communal animals who rely on each other to have darn near anything.

That's what it seems that you all are forgetting.

 

[Some Guy]

It would seem to me that you're intentionally beiing an azzhat. No one can ensure their prosperity in isolation. There is no such thing as a 'self made man' or woman. Everyone depends on everyone else for their livelihood. Sometime you guys act as if your lives would be exactly as they are now if you were on a planet alone. Because you come across as 'I did it all by myself'. You didn't.

You had a parent who took a 'blank slate' and turned it into a human being capable of being educated. You have had several teachers helping you to fill up that grey matter. You've had one or more employers who took a chance that you were what your resume said you were. You have supervisors and co-workers who actually taught you how to do your job.

If you have been self employed all of your adult life, then you've had customer after customer and supplier after supplier and employee after employee assist you in the development and growth of your business. Humans are ALL communal animals who rely on each other to have darn near anything.

That's what it seems that you all are forgetting.

And you seem to be ignoring the fact that i didn't need government's hand in the middle of all this to make it work, which is the point. All i needed was government protecting mine and my families' freedom and we'll take care of the rest.

 

[DiamondDave]

Providing for the weak, sick, elderly is OUR problem. The fact that only the very wealthy can afford any degree of health care out of pocket and are the only ones that can afford insurance out of pocket is OUR problem. Educating our children to be competitive and productive in a global society is OUR problem. Keeping corporations from ruling (and ruining) our lives is OUR problem. Leaders who lie us into wars for $$$ agendas is OUR problem. Clean air, water and safe work places is OUR problem. When income disparity gets so lopsided in favor of so few that our economy grinds to a halt, that is OUR problem. When a huge group of people are no longer able to work full time jobs and survive, that is OUR problem. You are not allowed to force your corporatist ideals on us either. They are proving toxic to our country time and again (and again and again) and will destroy it if left unchecked. Please prove me wrong with examples if you disagree.

So what exactly isn't "OUR" problem? Sounds like everything is our problem, so might as well tax everyone at 100% and let the government decide if and when we eat, what we eat, if we can go to the doctor and what for. If we're allowed to work, and if so, what will our vocation be? Or am i just being an capitalist pig?

It would seem to me that you're intentionally beiing an azzhat. No one can ensure their prosperity in isolation. There is no such thing as a 'self made man' or woman. Everyone depends on everyone else for their livelihood. Sometime you guys act as if your lives would be exactly as they are now if you were on a planet alone. Because you come across as 'I did it all by myself'. You didn't.

You had a parent who took a 'blank slate' and turned it into a human being capable of being educated. You have had several teachers helping you to fill up that grey matter. You've had one or more employers who took a chance that you were what your resume said you were. You have supervisors and co-workers who actually taught you how to do your job.

If you have been self employed all of your adult life, then you've had customer after customer and supplier after supplier and employee after employee assist you in the development and growth of your business. And these are only the people who gave you direct help. Humans are ALL communal animals who rely on each other to have darn near anything.

That's what it seems that you all are forgetting.

What you are forgetting is all of that is voluntary on both sides... you made those choices of where to work, whether you put in the extra effort or just tried to glide by.... nobody forced that company to hire you, and nobody forced you to work there... nobody forced you to try at school, nobody forced you to seek training on your own time


Nice try though

 

[Mr. Peepers]

And you seem to be ignoring the fact that i didn't need government's hand in the middle of all this to make it work, which is the point. All i needed was government protecting mine and my families' freedom and we'll take care of the rest.

Funny, the a-hole who likened poor children getting reduced price or free lunches to stray animals can't say that, now can he? HE got free lunches as a child due to a divorce... oops, I mean lazy mother who was a dirty 'ol sinner since she was poor. Lots of people need help now and again when life turns them upside down - especially through no fault of their own. We will not let you take that away from our fabric of society, so deal with it.

 

[Some Guy]

And you seem to be ignoring the fact that i didn't need government's hand in the middle of all this to make it work, which is the point. All i needed was government protecting mine and my families' freedom and we'll take care of the rest.

Funny, the a-hole who likened poor children getting reduced price or free lunches to stray animals can't say that, now can he? HE got free lunches as a child due to a divorce... oops, I mean lazy mother who was a dirty 'ol sinner since she was poor. Lots of people need help now and again when life turns them upside down - especially through no fault of their own. We will not let you take that away from our fabric of society, so deal with it.

So it's changed from "society is responsible for providing this, that and this other thing" to "we're not letting you take security programs away." Obviously i can't take security programs away, but i'll take that small concession as a mild victory.

Here's the deal. I've got not problem paying some taxes to form federal backstops. People do get fucked over sometimes with a serious condition or a simple inability to find a job, especially in today's economy. As long as they function as a safety net, not a single source of income, i'm all good with it. I don't want to see anyone die in a gutter, but i also will refuse to pay for someone to live when they can do something about it.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

No, you moron.. it is not changing the subject... you mentioned the military and national defense.. which is laid out in our constitution.. you don't want it as a charge of the government, I wish you and ones like you to simply go thru the process of amending the constitution to eliminate it... you have the FREEDOM to pursue that if you wish

No.. you do not need a license to have someone else drive you..

They need a license to drive you.

you do not need a license to take a greyhound bus..

You have to buy a ticket.Greyhound is not a public service. It is a business.

I do not think our taxes should be used for any clinic for you to go have the sniffles looked at or to treat your VD....

Funny. I mention broken bones and you start babbling about the cold.

Why are you so dishonest?

I do not think our taxes should be used to subsidize any medical care for anyone....

So the poor should allowed to die or be crippled because they're poor?

if I choose to go to a hospital that uses revenues taken from payment of others to hand out free care, that is my choice.. or I can choose not to be admitted to that hospital... I can opt for a private surgical center to have an operation in over a hospital (which I have done)...

Seriously, what the fuck are you babbling about? Who the fuck said anything about you not being allowed to choose whether or not to go to any given hospital?

Can you try to stay on topic for five seconds?

Whether you labor or do not labor is of no concern.

Bullshit. Those who choose not to work or otherwise earn for themselves what means of sustenance they reasonably can have no right to be taken care of. There is a huge difference between unable (old, sick, or crippled) or unreasonable (wanting to return to sending 12-year-olds into the mines) and unwilling (laziness and entitlement mentality).

Your labor benefits you. Your contribution to 'the common' good is irrelevant, as your idea of 'the common good' is some nanny system

WTF are you babbling about? How is making sure we don't have people starving in the streets and making sure we have a standing army a 'nanny system'?

Do you even know what the fuck you're trying to say?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

If any other citizen or legal resident is ever in a similar situation, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with my taxdollars going to provide fundamental emergency care so they, too can have working limbs.

So if i don't have insurance because i don't really feel like working for it or having it, and i get hit by a truck and break numerous bones, you won't have a problem helping me pay for it? Thanks buddy. I might just do that.

Unwilling =/= Unable


If you choose not to work, then that['s your own damned problem.

And while i'm at it, i think i'll eat nothing but McDonald's too and never work out. Who wants to bother taking care of themselves and be healthy when "we" will be there to back me up when i inevitably have a heart attack?

CPR is fundamental emergency care. You get that much. You also get a consultation where the doctor/paramedic/everyone in the room can inform you that you need to get your fat ass on a treadmill and stop eating like we're going to run out of food.

How the fuck is that a 'nanny state'? That's just being a decent human being when someone else is in need.

Should we not send the police when you need them? In the event of invasion, should the Army not protect you, your home, and your family?

I agree that law enforcement and national security are much needed and valid services of the government. The point of that was should i not take necessary steps to protect myself in the event of someone invading my home? Here in Chicago, i'm not allowed to have a handgun to do so.

So you admit that your earlier red herring was moronic? When your attempts to defend your property fail you want the police or army. as applicable, yes? If you are unable to sustain yourself despite your best attempts, then you would like access to food while receiving training regarding how to gain employment, yes? If you simply do not earn enough for quality health insurance and you break your leg, get hit by a stray bullet, or are mugged and stabbed, then your objection to access to emergency medical care disappears, yes?

I happen to enjoy knowing our children can be taught by multiple people who specialize in their fields of knowledge so we have a nation of competent and informed citizens unlike you.

I don't disagree completely and am not opposed to public schools, but rather on a further level. Even outside of normal school time, is it "our" responsibility to teach my kid life lessons, or is it mine?

Both. If I see a child playing with a knife or a fork and an outlet, it's on me to stop it, whether it's my child or not. If someone's about to try jumping the Grand Canyon on a tricycle, everyone should inform him that he's a fucking moron and about to die.

It's not an either/or thing.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

And now we have you coming up with the typical winger sloganeering of 'lying us into a war', in some feeble attempt to make a point with some bullshit premise... not gonna fly

That is EXACTLY what happened. Please link your proof otherwise from real sources. I can link plenty o' sources for my argument. Please refute what I said truthfully. You can't, can you?

My proof.. my proof is the intel that all nations and governmental and military entities had... my proof is the resolutions that laid out many MANY reasons behind the military actions we have taken.... your simpleton 'lied us into war' mantra does not fly except in the realms of the conspiracy theorists

3 reasons:
-Anti-Islam
-Oil
-Finishing Daddy's war


that was it

 

[☭proletarian☭]

if you are TRULY unable, you are a ward of the state

Not necessarily. Why do you want to deprive someone of their liberty just because they are poor. Did most Americans belong to 'the government' during the Great Depression?

Name one company town where all housing, food, etc is under total control of a company...

Ask our posters from the Appalachians. I'm sure they can list some company towns for you. They're a bit less common now, with American businesses all being moved overseas, but remnants of the Corporations and those with ties to them still exist and some things have yet to change some places.

 

[Some Guy]

If any other citizen or legal resident is ever in a similar situation, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with my taxdollars going to provide fundamental emergency care so they, too can have working limbs.

So if i don't have insurance because i don't really feel like working for it or having it, and i get hit by a truck and break numerous bones, you won't have a problem helping me pay for it? Thanks buddy. I might just do that.

Unwilling =/= Unable


If you choose not to work, then that['s your own damned problem.



CPR is fundamental emergency care. You get that much. You also get a consultation where the doctor/paramedic/everyone in the room can inform you that you need to get your fat ass on a treadmill and stop eating like we're going to run out of food.

How the fuck is that a 'nanny state'? That's just being a decent human being when someone else is in need.



So you admit that your earlier red herring was moronic? When your attempts to defend your property fail you want the police or army. as applicable, yes? If you are unable to sustain yourself despite your best attempts, then you would like access to food while receiving training regarding how to gain employment, yes? If you simply do not earn enough for quality health insurance and you break your leg, get hit by a stray bullet, or are mugged and stabbed, then your objection to access to emergency medical care disappears, yes?

I happen to enjoy knowing our children can be taught by multiple people who specialize in their fields of knowledge so we have a nation of competent and informed citizens unlike you.

I don't disagree completely and am not opposed to public schools, but rather on a further level. Even outside of normal school time, is it "our" responsibility to teach my kid life lessons, or is it mine?

Both. If I see a child playing with a knife or a fork and an outlet, it's on me to stop it, whether it's my child or not. If someone's about to try jumping the Grand Canyon on a tricycle, everyone should inform him that he's a fucking moron and about to die.

It's not an either/or thing.

See my previous post as well. It pretty much sounds like we're on the same page. Although i'll never support the government administering health insurance to anyone but the truly destitute. Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems like many of the well-intentioned government programs simply have too high a standard when it comes to the word "destitute."

So with that, i'll go on record saying i don't need social security as a retirement fund. Turn social security into a fund to support those who can't physically or mentally take care of themselves and i'll worry about my own retirement. No retirement medical insurance either (Medicare, obviously) as i'll take care of that as well.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

3 reasons:
-Anti-Islam
-Oil
-Finishing Daddy's war

OK, I'll give you oil, but the rest was about $$$. That's it. No WMD, Definitely not spreading democracy - last thing they want is a successful democratic Iraq that has control over its own resources - but oil and $$$.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Although i'll never support the government administering health insurance to anyone but the truly destitute.

The States should be allowed to institute whatever they wish and can provide for with State funds. The Fed should only require that all citizens and legal resident not be denied fundamental emergency care (such as the instances mentioned earlier).

It is in the interest of the cities/states to provide some means by which the poor can receive basic checkups and routine care to prevent costly ER visits later. The nation is far too large for such matters to be managed on the national scale by some aspect of the Fed. What works for a European nation should work for a Western State. Trying to impliment a national policy in the US is like trying to institute a policy over the entire EU.

Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems like many of the well-intentioned government programs simply have too high a standard when it comes to the word "destitute."

A small group within the Fed trying to manage any program for the entire nation/one-third of a continent is going to have serious problems.

There's a reason we adopted a federated system with local and State governments managing most issues, especially those which require close attention where they are implemented.

The States should issue food stamps with the condition that the recipient, if of able mind (few mental problems truly prevent people from doing any work) and body, enroll in approved classes to gain employment or be working or seeking work at a job that will provide the income needed for sustenance.

Those who need it should receive a hand up. Those who merely wish to abuse the system and have no intention of improving their condition cannot be helped until they are ready to make a real change.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

So with that, i'll go on record saying i don't need social security as a retirement fund. Turn social security into a fund to support those who can't physically or mentally take care of themselves

Including the elderly?

SS was never supposed to be one's primary source of retirement income in the first place.

No retirement medical insurance either (Medicare, obviously) as i'll take care of that as well.

clarify

 

[DiamondDave]

That is EXACTLY what happened. Please link your proof otherwise from real sources. I can link plenty o' sources for my argument. Please refute what I said truthfully. You can't, can you?

My proof.. my proof is the intel that all nations and governmental and military entities had... my proof is the resolutions that laid out many MANY reasons behind the military actions we have taken.... your simpleton 'lied us into war' mantra does not fly except in the realms of the conspiracy theorists

3 reasons:
-Anti-Islam
-Oil
-Finishing Daddy's war


that was it

I suggest you read the actual reasons in the resolution

epic fail

 

[DiamondDave]

No, you moron.. it is not changing the subject... you mentioned the military and national defense.. which is laid out in our constitution.. you don't want it as a charge of the government, I wish you and ones like you to simply go thru the process of amending the constitution to eliminate it... you have the FREEDOM to pursue that if you wish

No.. you do not need a license to have someone else drive you..

They need a license to drive you.


You have to buy a ticket.Greyhound is not a public service. It is a business.



Funny. I mention broken bones and you start babbling about the cold.

Why are you so dishonest?


So the poor should allowed to die or be crippled because they're poor?


Seriously, what the fuck are you babbling about? Who the fuck said anything about you not being allowed to choose whether or not to go to any given hospital?

Can you try to stay on topic for five seconds?

Whether you labor or do not labor is of no concern.

Bullshit. Those who choose not to work or otherwise earn for themselves what means of sustenance they reasonably can have no right to be taken care of. There is a huge difference between unable (old, sick, or crippled) or unreasonable (wanting to return to sending 12-year-olds into the mines) and unwilling (laziness and entitlement mentality).

Your labor benefits you. Your contribution to 'the common' good is irrelevant, as your idea of 'the common good' is some nanny system

WTF are you babbling about? How is making sure we don't have people starving in the streets and making sure we have a standing army a 'nanny system'?

Do you even know what the fuck you're trying to say?

You feel better if I would have said broken bone over the sniffles?? Fine... you don't need emergency care for the simple broken bone... I've set my own broken fingers and I have had broken bones set at a regular old doctor's office on my dime....

If the poor who are able bodies want care, do what it takes, take the debt, actually do some fucking work, work 2 3 or 4 jobs, I don't give a shit... your personal care and upkeep, your personal responsibility... you want something more than rice and beans, earn to buy it....

As stated, if someone is truly unable, they are a ward of the state... losing the freedoms the rest of us have... handing out to alleged starving people who are not totally helpless is indeed a nanny state.... and if you wish to contribute to charities that help those down on their luck, feel free to do so.... just as I donate to charities I believe in

As for driving.. the road is for everyone's benefit as a populace... but you personally driving on it is a privilege, not a right... but you can have use with someone else's privilege or by utilizing goods and services provided by that road system....

freaking entitlement junkies

 

[Mr Natural]

Why are conservatives such miserable pricks?

 

[DiamondDave]

Why are conservatives such miserable pricks?

Maybe because we're sick of entitlement junkie assholes thinking people are simply owed something for thier personal upkeep at the expense of others

 

[Ravi]

Why are conservatives such miserable pricks?

They resent the fact that they can't make it in Somalia...that Libertarian utopia.

 

[DiamondDave]

Why are conservatives such miserable pricks?

They resent the fact that they can't make it in Somalia...that Libertarian utopia.

And you resent that the world and humans are not set up to live in John Lennon's Imagine world