What a great idea for improving Public School Test Scores

[Samson]

In the 13 years I've been teaching, I've had less than 20 parents show up for conferences which are offered three times a year. There have been years with zero. I teach handicapped kids who have annual IEP meetings, and there are years that not one parent has shown. When students get suspended, they are often sent to the time out room because the parents refuse to get them. When they are given a Saturday detention, most do not show because there are no busses.

Then Why Have Saturday Detention?

Why have IEP meetings?

Why have three conference days/nights a year?

I've taught too chanel, AND I'm a Semi-concerned parent when I can tear myself away from Octopron, AND I don't wanna see my kids teachers anymore than they wanna see me.

If there's a problem, just freakin' pick up the phone.

IEP is required by Federal law and applies to students in special education.

Yes, I know, I've taught 6 years and been a Summer School Administrator.

My point is, if the parent isn't available for the IEP, then have it in absentia. This makes everyone happy: Only takes about 10 minutes (to wait for the no-show), then roll the IEP over, send it certified mail to the parent.

Furthermore, my point is do not GIVE Saturday Detention. No one shows, and you end up going to the next step on the discipline ladder anyway.

Finally, do not offer conference days. They're a fuckin' waste of everyone's time. If a parent wants a conference, then let them make a goddamn appointment like every other person on the face of the earth.

 

[AkronGuy]

You prob had two parents too. Out of the 45 kids I teach this year, only a handful have a relationship with their fathers. Its particularly hard on boys whether people will admit it or not. We don't value fatherhood enough in today's culture. And the pregnant girls I teach have no delusions about "happily ever after" with their baby's dadda. A few of them already have neglected kids with other girls. The national average for handicapped kids is around 10 percent. My district is at 25 and growing and growing...Soon we will be seeing dormitories housing these neglected kids and their babies. The push for universal pre school has little to do with academics. Its for the safety of hungry and abused children IMHO.

I am lucky to have had both parents at home. But they both worked full time and had an austistic son and a few of us had extreme adhd and there's 10 of us. So it was extremely difficult for them to do it, but they did it.

I agree we don't value fatherhood in today's society. Men are essentially seen as sources of sperm and child support. Misandrogyny is a big problem in today's society and pervades every aspect of it. And as far as the pregnant girls and their "baby's daddas", that's a sad situation in and of itself.

 

[AkronGuy]

Then Why Have Saturday Detention?

Why have IEP meetings?

Why have three conference days/nights a year?

I've taught too chanel, AND I'm a Semi-concerned parent when I can tear myself away from Octopron, AND I don't wanna see my kids teachers anymore than they wanna see me.

If there's a problem, just freakin' pick up the phone.

IEP is required by Federal law and applies to students in special education.

Yes, I know, I've taught 6 years and been a Summer School Administrator.

My point is, if the parent isn't available for the IEP, then have it in absentia. This makes everyone happy: Only takes about 10 minutes (to wait for the no-show), then roll the IEP over, send it certified mail to the parent.

Furthermore, my point is do not GIVE Saturday Detention. No one shows, and you end up going to the next step on the discipline ladder anyway.

Finally, do not offer conference days. They're a fuckin' waste of everyone's time. If a parent wants a conference, then let them make a goddamn appointment like every other person on the face of the earth.

Great points. I agree on those points. When I was in high school, saturday school was just sitting in a room doing homework while the teacher prepared his classes and graded work while we had to watch and listen to Spanish concerts and Spanish TV. When I had to go to them, the teacher would give me work from his Spanish classes to do and I'd do them and he'd let me take smoke breaks as long as I gave him a few cigarettes.

 

[chanel]

Samson - we do that with the IEPs but I still think a face to face meeting with parent and child is invaluable. and conferences are necessary and valued by SOME parents. As far as Saturday detention, it is a tool that is used to avoid "out of school suspensions" Schools are sanctioned for too many suspensions and for many kids its simply a vacation. I would like to see fines instead. Hitting people in the pocketbook always makes an impression.

Oh - and any kid suspended for 10 days (fighting drugs etc) gets a private tutor at 50 bucks an hour - even if kid pulls a no show.. Good ole NJ. Rewarding bad behavior.

Good extra cash for me though.

 

[Annie]

Someone posted a link about Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer drawing a comparison to “feeding stray animals” during a speech about people on government assistance, which I thought had some ideas of merit. Here's onea:

Later in his speech, he said, “I can show you a bar graph where free and reduced lunch has the worst test scores in the state of South Carolina,” adding, “You show me the school that has the highest free and reduced lunch, and I'll show you the worst test scores, folks. It's there, period. So how do you fix it? Well, you say, ‘Look, if you receive goods or services from the government, then you owe something back.'”

Bauer said during the speech that there are no “repercussions” from accepting government assistance.

“We don't make you take a drug test. We ought to. We don't even make you show up to your child's parent-teacher conference meeting or to the PTA meeting,” Bauer said.

“You go to a school where there's an active participation of parents and guess what? They have the highest test scores. So what do you do? You say, ‘Look folks, if you receive goods or services from the government and you don't attend a parent-teacher conference, bam, you lose your benefits.' We're going to have to do things like that. We can't afford to keep just giving money away.”

S.C. Republican: Aid like feeding strays - CharlotteObserver.com

What do you think?

So he is pretty much saying he wants to punish children who are growing up poor, with parents who probably don't care, and some who have parents that are drugs. I worked at a school where almost all the children were on free or reduced lunches, and there is only so much teachers can do. And I love how the solution to this guy is to not feed the children, because that is exactly what would happen if he got his way. When in reality, the only meals some of those kids eat are at school.

I wonder if he isn't onto something here? IF we say as a society, 'We are going to provide food, education, nurturing for the children of the disadvantaged," shouldn't there be some ownership? IF they don't want to do what they can, for example showing up for conferences, (worked around their work schedule if necessary), shouldn't 'we' as a society take the children and assume the rest of their care? Make sure they do complete their homework? Make sure they are supervised and enrolled in healthy activities? Take them out of homes where the parent doesn't care or care for?

 

[chanel]

I'll try and find the link later but I read a fascinating story about a charter school in LA which is outperforming all the other schools in the area. I went on their website and parents MUST attend conferences and give 25 hours a year helping in the classrooms and lunch room. If the parent does not, the child cannot participate in any extra curriculars and or can be asked to leave. And people wonder what the secret is to private and charter schools. Its no fucking secret.

 

[AkronGuy]

Samson - we do that with the IEPs but I still think a face to face meeting with parent and child is invaluable. and conferences are necessary and valued by SOME parents. As far as Saturday detention, it is a tool that is used to avoid "out of school suspensions" Schools are sanctioned for too many suspensions and for many kids its simply a vacation. I would like to see fines instead. Hitting people in the pocketbook always makes an impression.

Oh - and any kid suspended for 10 days (fighting drugs etc) gets a private tutor at 50 bucks an hour - even if kid pulls a no show.. Good ole NJ. Rewarding bad behavior.

Good extra cash for me though.

When my brother was in special education in Ohio, they could only be suspended 11 days a year and expulsion was against the law. Even if they beat up a teacher they'd get a one day suspension.

 

[AkronGuy]

I'll try and find the link later but I read a fascinating story about a charter school in LA which is outperforming all the other schools in the area. I went on their website and parents MUST attend conferences and give 25 hours a year helping in the classrooms and lunch room. If the parent does not, the child cannot participate in any extra curriculars and or can be asked to leave. And people wonder what the secret is to private and charter schools. Its no fucking secret.

Exactly. But the reason my children are in private school other than the quality, is that they have to go to an Afrocentric school and can't get a transfer because they're not a racial minority. It isn't expensive because I'm a member of that church, but I'm an atheist, but i'll give up a few hours a week and fake it in order to give my children an education and to avoid being subjected to hate crimes and racism.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Someone posted a link about Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer drawing a comparison to “feeding stray animals” during a speech about people on government assistance, which I thought had some ideas of merit. Here's onea:

Later in his speech, he said, “I can show you a bar graph where free and reduced lunch has the worst test scores in the state of South Carolina,” adding, “You show me the school that has the highest free and reduced lunch, and I'll show you the worst test scores, folks. It's there, period. So how do you fix it? Well, you say, ‘Look, if you receive goods or services from the government, then you owe something back.'”

Bauer said during the speech that there are no “repercussions” from accepting government assistance.

“We don't make you take a drug test. We ought to. We don't even make you show up to your child's parent-teacher conference meeting or to the PTA meeting,” Bauer said.

“You go to a school where there's an active participation of parents and guess what? They have the highest test scores. So what do you do? You say, ‘Look folks, if you receive goods or services from the government and you don't attend a parent-teacher conference, bam, you lose your benefits.' We're going to have to do things like that. We can't afford to keep just giving money away.”

S.C. Republican: Aid like feeding strays - CharlotteObserver.com

What do you think?

So he is pretty much saying he wants to punish children who are growing up poor, with parents who probably don't care, and some who have parents that are drugs. I worked at a school where almost all the children were on free or reduced lunches, and there is only so much teachers can do. And I love how the solution to this guy is to not feed the children, because that is exactly what would happen if he got his way. When in reality, the only meals some of those kids eat are at school.

I don't read it like that. It is a given that parental involvement is the biggest help in kids learning. I showed up for the conferences, I was there for the school play, I was there for all the stuff. The fact that you care means the kids care.

He is asking that parents get involved. Or if all they are there for is the beenies, then they need to skip the bennies which cost a lot, and come out of the budget for the education of kids whose parents care.

 

[Annie]

I'll try and find the link later but I read a fascinating story about a charter school in LA which is outperforming all the other schools in the area. I went on their website and parents MUST attend conferences and give 25 hours a year helping in the classrooms and lunch room. If the parent does not, the child cannot participate in any extra curriculars and or can be asked to leave. And people wonder what the secret is to private and charter schools. Its no fucking secret.

That's pretty much what Marva Collins did in Chicago. The curriculum was classical and if the parents couldn't afford the tuition, they could work at the school. Everything from aiding to janitorial, depending on their skills and schedules. 100% of her students went onto colleges and universities, all needing full or near full scholarships. This was on the West Side of Chicago, worst of the worst areas.

Problem was, too many of the parents didn't care, in spite of the success of their children. Imagine what the public schools are up against. Thus there may be an argument that if the parents don't care, yet the children really do need support to break the poverty cycle, well then if not 'we' whom? If the state needs to meet their physical needs, then the state needs to meet the nurturing needs.

It seems obvious that if the state needs to provide the basics, then the parents can at minimum provide the support in kind. Shows the children their parents commitment and also helps provide for a real learning environment. We cannot allow the 'We pretend to teach, while they pretend to learn,' continue. To break poverty the children must be educated.

 

[AkronGuy]

I'll try and find the link later but I read a fascinating story about a charter school in LA which is outperforming all the other schools in the area. I went on their website and parents MUST attend conferences and give 25 hours a year helping in the classrooms and lunch room. If the parent does not, the child cannot participate in any extra curriculars and or can be asked to leave. And people wonder what the secret is to private and charter schools. Its no fucking secret.

That's pretty much what Marva Collins did in Chicago. The curriculum was classical and if the parents couldn't afford the tuition, they could work at the school. Everything from aiding to janitorial, depending on their skills and schedules. 100% of her students went onto colleges and universities, all needing full or near full scholarships. This was on the West Side of Chicago, worst of the worst areas.

Problem was, too many of the parents didn't care, in spite of the success of their children. Imagine what the public schools are up against. Thus there may be an argument that if the parents don't care, yet the children really do need support to break the poverty cycle, well then if not 'we' whom? If the state needs to meet their physical needs, then the state needs to meet the nurturing needs.

It seems obvious that if the state needs to provide the basics, then the parents can at minimum provide the support in kind. Shows the children their parents commitment and also helps provide for a real learning environment. We cannot allow the 'We pretend to teach, while they pretend to learn,' continue. To break poverty the children must be educated.

I think it's a fear of being successful. Regardless of how horrible it is, those raised in generational poverty, it becomes part of your identity, I went through that stupid ass mindset for several years and broke free of it. But many don't, or many are afraid of seeming to sell out or are afraid to be successful because they're afraid of feeling guilt.

 

[Samson]

Samson - we do that with the IEPs but I still think a face to face meeting with parent and child is invaluable. and conferences are necessary and valued by SOME parents. As far as Saturday detention, it is a tool that is used to avoid "out of school suspensions" Schools are sanctioned for too many suspensions and for many kids its simply a vacation. I would like to see fines instead. Hitting people in the pocketbook always makes an impression.

Oh - and any kid suspended for 10 days (fighting drugs etc) gets a private tutor at 50 bucks an hour - even if kid pulls a no show.. Good ole NJ. Rewarding bad behavior.

Good extra cash for me though.

Then just have conferences with some parents. The open house conference crap is totally worthless.

Well, what is the next step on the discipline ladder when the kid fails to go to Saturday Detention? Suspension? Fines? How do we squeeze blood from a turnip?

Look, what we need is a sensible approach to education, instead of the insanity we have now: Keeping ALL kids in school until they take Geometry, study Shakespeare, or some other useless nonsense and warehousing them until they graduate, or letting them stay until they reach age 21, then finally giving up.

Kids need public education until they are 14. Then the state should provide vocational education, and let them begin working at age 16.

 

[Samson]

I think it's a fear of being successful. Regardless of how horrible it is, those raised in generational poverty, it becomes part of your identity, I went through that stupid ass mindset for several years and broke free of it. But many don't, or many are afraid of seeming to sell out or are afraid to be successful because they're afraid of feeling guilt.

In other words there are people that prefer being poor.

 

[chanel]

I like your idea but you know as well as I that the primary purpose of schools is no longer to educate. Its about free meals and keeping kids off the streets. I agree 100 percent that for kids who are not college bound, the curriculum is completely useless. But logic has no place in public education. Next year our school is going with all college prep classes. No more special ed or general tracks. Kids who can't tell time will be put in trig and physics classes. Kids who can barely read or write English will be required to take two years of a foreign language. And in 4-5 years, and millions for new programs, they'll say "oops"

 

[Samson]

I like your idea but you know as well as I that the primary purpose of schools is no longer to educate. Its about free meals and keeping kids off the streets. I agree 100 percent that for kids who are not college bound, the curriculum is completely useless. But logic has no place in public education. Next year our school is going with all college prep classes. No more special ed or general tracks. Kids who can't tell time will be put in trig and physics classes. Kids who can barely read or write English will be required to take two years of a foreign language. And in 4-5 years, and millions for new programs, they'll say "oops"

Yes this is why I refer to "the insanity."

Public school see their mission more and more as college prep-schools. The theory is that the more they shove college-prep down the throats of an ever growing number of kids, then a certain proportion will actually succeed. Typical Beaurocracy, one-size-fits-all mentality.

Eventually, what will happen is the kids that are REALLY ready for college will begin graduating early, or taking college courses concurrently with their "sentences" to public school.

 

[AkronGuy]

I think it's a fear of being successful. Regardless of how horrible it is, those raised in generational poverty, it becomes part of your identity, I went through that stupid ass mindset for several years and broke free of it. But many don't, or many are afraid of seeming to sell out or are afraid to be successful because they're afraid of feeling guilt.

In other words there are people that prefer being poor.

In a way, yes. But it's not a simple topic. There's very complex social dynamics at work.

 

[AkronGuy]

I like your idea but you know as well as I that the primary purpose of schools is no longer to educate. Its about free meals and keeping kids off the streets. I agree 100 percent that for kids who are not college bound, the curriculum is completely useless. But logic has no place in public education. Next year our school is going with all college prep classes. No more special ed or general tracks. Kids who can't tell time will be put in trig and physics classes. Kids who can barely read or write English will be required to take two years of a foreign language. And in 4-5 years, and millions for new programs, they'll say "oops"

Which pisses me off, some kids ain't the college type, so why shouldn't they be taught a trade ? Not all blue collar work is simple and requires no education, there's blue collar jobs that require education that pays better than many jobs which require a college degree. Why should they be denied an education which will benefit them ? I remember when I went to school, you could get on the track for an ASCE certification, which meant that if you kept up the work, in a few years, you had a solid career track waiting for you. My uncle started out a simple auto mechanic and now he's a specialized mechanic making 36 an hour.

 

[AkronGuy]

I like your idea but you know as well as I that the primary purpose of schools is no longer to educate. Its about free meals and keeping kids off the streets. I agree 100 percent that for kids who are not college bound, the curriculum is completely useless. But logic has no place in public education. Next year our school is going with all college prep classes. No more special ed or general tracks. Kids who can't tell time will be put in trig and physics classes. Kids who can barely read or write English will be required to take two years of a foreign language. And in 4-5 years, and millions for new programs, they'll say "oops"

Yes this is why I refer to "the insanity."

Public school see their mission more and more as college prep-schools. The theory is that the more they shove college-prep down the throats of an ever growing number of kids, then a certain proportion will actually succeed. Typical Beaurocracy, one-size-fits-all mentality.

Eventually, what will happen is the kids that are REALLY ready for college will begin graduating early, or taking college courses concurrently with their "sentences" to public school.

What pisses me off is that the trades are no longer taught at high schools. What use is college if you're gifted at the trades ? A carpenter can make more than most college graduates and many other trades are the same. I know when I went to high school, they had a plumbing trade class that had the student take his requirements, math, reading etc, and the other half of the day he was taught plumbing. I know many people who rose from poverty to the middle class because of those classes. Now they don't exist.

 

[Samson]

I think it's a fear of being successful. Regardless of how horrible it is, those raised in generational poverty, it becomes part of your identity, I went through that stupid ass mindset for several years and broke free of it. But many don't, or many are afraid of seeming to sell out or are afraid to be successful because they're afraid of feeling guilt.

In other words there are people that prefer being poor.

In a way, yes. But it's not a simple topic. There's very complex social dynamics at work.

Well, of course there are "complex social dynamics."

Otherwise what would we call it?

Laziness?

No, that would be entirely to pedestrian.

 

[AkronGuy]

In other words there are people that prefer being poor.

In a way, yes. But it's not a simple topic. There's very complex social dynamics at work.

Well, of course there are "complex social dynamics."

Otherwise what would we call it?

Laziness?

No, that would be entirely to pedestrian.

Well, imagine something that you choose could possibly change everything about you, and then not say you wouldn't in some way fear it. But to succumb to that fear is stupid.