'S.C. Republican: Aid like feeding strays'

[☭proletarian☭]

You are truly an idiot, or maybe just all liberals are. When did it become "greedy" to practice personal responsibility for one's well being?

Wow, personal responsibility and greed are two entirely different animals. Do you need 2 billion dollars for your "ensured well-being"? No, you do not need even 1/100 of that. And you're calling me an idiot?

And what right do you have to the earnings I have even if they are 2BIL??? What gives you the right to dictate how much is enough for me to earn before it is owed to you or any other lazy person believing in socialist mantras and wealth redistribution??

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Condition-Working-England-Oxford-Classics/dp/0199555885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264709848&sr=8-1"]Your way's been tried before[/ame]

 

[☭proletarian☭]

And funny.. those who earn more generally are pretty generous with charity and help to others...

PR. Started with the Tax Wars and the breaking up of the Robber Barons.

I am all for CHARITY.. a voluntary thing.. out of the goodness within someone.....

Human charity alone has never been sufficient. The humanitarians have always had to force most peoples' hands to help those in need. Jesus threatened people with Hellfire to get them to help the poor and reject greed, the State has taxation and allocation of funds with which to aid the most in need.


You can judge an entire society by the condition of its lowest caste.

 

[Old Rocks]

Pay attention Mr. Peepers. No one said that being poor is a sin. But not providing for the basic needs of your children is. We have a thing called "food stamps" for people on public assistance. We have a thing called "free public education". We are not talking about Zimbabwe here.

We know that parental participation increases educational achievement. That is common knowledge. And yes, food does too. Why can't we combine them? The free lunch ain't cuttin it alone.

This guy in SC has people talking. And even if his ideas don't fly, at least attention is being focused on a very very serious problem in this country. Who has a better idea? Please share. Even President Obama would like to know.

About 25 years ago, when my son was in grade school, they had a program that was very effective in this kind of situation. It was called volunteer mentoring.

At the time I was working night shift, so twice a week, I went in and worked with a boy or girl that was having reading difficulty.

I came to know a number of these children and their home problems. The majority of them had both parents at home. And both working at low paying jobs, often working overtime. This problem has only gotten worse in the intervening years.

The wages of the working poor and the middle class have declined in those years. The costs of child rearing have increased, even as medical coverage, particularly for the young people entering the work force, has been decreasing.

That man's statements were of a particularly heartless nature. He was not advocating aiding these children and their parents, he was advocating abandoning them.

That is indefensible, and against all that this nation stands for.

 

[Old Rocks]

You getting your VD checked or looking into a migraine headache is your problem... you paying for the insurance to cover it or having the cash to pay for it is your problem... it is not a communal problem... whether you think you are receiving enough money for your work.. your problem... whether you want more money that I earn or have... your problem.

Providing for the weak, sick, elderly is OUR problem. The fact that only the very wealthy can afford any degree of health care out of pocket and are the only ones that can afford insurance out of pocket is OUR problem. Educating our children to be competitive and productive in a global society is OUR problem. Keeping corporations from ruling (and ruining) our lives is OUR problem. Leaders who lie us into wars for $$$ agendas is OUR problem. Clean air, water and safe work places is OUR problem. When income disparity gets so lopsided in favor of so few that our economy grinds to a halt, that is OUR problem. When a huge group of people are no longer able to work full time jobs and survive, that is OUR problem. You are not allowed to force your corporatist ideals on us either. They are proving toxic to our country time and again (and again and again) and will destroy it if left unchecked. Please prove me wrong with examples if you disagree.

We see other nations with a living standard that now exceeds ours. We see that all their citizens have access to health care, and that they live longer than we do, and their children are healthier.

We see that their social safety net is far more inclusive, that their violent crime is orders of magnitudes lower than ours.

And we damn them as 'Socialist'. Even as they continue to get ahead of us by providing a greater degree of upward mobility through availability of educational oppertunity for all of their citizens.

People like Diamond Dave have a sickness. It is called extreme selfishness and greed. These are the people that have taken one of the seven cardinel sins, and elevated it to virtue, "Greed is Good".

And our nation and people are suffering for it.

 

[Some Guy]

Providing for the weak, sick, elderly is OUR problem. The fact that only the very wealthy can afford any degree of health care out of pocket and are the only ones that can afford insurance out of pocket is OUR problem. Educating our children to be competitive and productive in a global society is OUR problem. Keeping corporations from ruling (and ruining) our lives is OUR problem. Leaders who lie us into wars for $$$ agendas is OUR problem. Clean air, water and safe work places is OUR problem. When income disparity gets so lopsided in favor of so few that our economy grinds to a halt, that is OUR problem. When a huge group of people are no longer able to work full time jobs and survive, that is OUR problem. You are not allowed to force your corporatist ideals on us either. They are proving toxic to our country time and again (and again and again) and will destroy it if left unchecked. Please prove me wrong with examples if you disagree.

So what exactly isn't "OUR" problem? Sounds like everything is our problem, so might as well tax everyone at 100% and let the government decide if and when we eat, what we eat, if we can go to the doctor and what for. If we're allowed to work, and if so, what will our vocation be? Or am i just being an capitalist pig?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Providing for the weak, sick, elderly is OUR problem. The fact that only the very wealthy can afford any degree of health care out of pocket and are the only ones that can afford insurance out of pocket is OUR problem. Educating our children to be competitive and productive in a global society is OUR problem. Keeping corporations from ruling (and ruining) our lives is OUR problem. Leaders who lie us into wars for $$$ agendas is OUR problem. Clean air, water and safe work places is OUR problem. When income disparity gets so lopsided in favor of so few that our economy grinds to a halt, that is OUR problem. When a huge group of people are no longer able to work full time jobs and survive, that is OUR problem. You are not allowed to force your corporatist ideals on us either. They are proving toxic to our country time and again (and again and again) and will destroy it if left unchecked. Please prove me wrong with examples if you disagree.

So what exactly isn't "OUR" problem? Sounds like everything is our problem, so might as well tax everyone at 100% and let the government decide if and when we eat, what we eat, if we can go to the doctor and what for. If we're allowed to work, and if so, what will our vocation be? Or am i just being an capitalist pig?

What you're being is an idiot.

 

[DiamondDave]

Do you call for government run, government mandated, government funded, government assisted, "public option" systems?? If you are, you are trying to entitle yourself to something at the expense of another

Do you like public roads and an army to protect you?

Funny.... the military and national defense is in the constitution... your personal care and your personal needs is NOT

Your access to public roads is not restricted.. you can make use of it if you have the means and ability to do so, or make use of someone else's transportation to do so

Your personal health is not public accessible... your personal health is not for the use of all others... your eating is not for the use of all others... your freedoms comes with all the positives and negatives that goes with it... what you and other entitlement junkies want is the invasion of the freedoms of others for your personal gain...

 

[Old Rocks]

Providing for the weak, sick, elderly is OUR problem. The fact that only the very wealthy can afford any degree of health care out of pocket and are the only ones that can afford insurance out of pocket is OUR problem. Educating our children to be competitive and productive in a global society is OUR problem. Keeping corporations from ruling (and ruining) our lives is OUR problem. Leaders who lie us into wars for $$$ agendas is OUR problem. Clean air, water and safe work places is OUR problem. When income disparity gets so lopsided in favor of so few that our economy grinds to a halt, that is OUR problem. When a huge group of people are no longer able to work full time jobs and survive, that is OUR problem. You are not allowed to force your corporatist ideals on us either. They are proving toxic to our country time and again (and again and again) and will destroy it if left unchecked. Please prove me wrong with examples if you disagree.

So what exactly isn't "OUR" problem? Sounds like everything is our problem, so might as well tax everyone at 100% and let the government decide if and when we eat, what we eat, if we can go to the doctor and what for. If we're allowed to work, and if so, what will our vocation be? Or am i just being an capitalist pig?

No, you are just being an idiot.

 

[Some Guy]

No, really, i'm not being an idiot. What, exactly, am i responsible for providing for myself and what is "our" responsibility? According to Mr. Peepers:

- It's not my responsibility to save money. I should be sharing all that money with the "our."
- It's not my responsibility to make sure i have the ability to see a doctor, it's "ours."
- It's not my responsibility to protect myself, it's "ours."
- It's not my responsibility to educate my children, it's "ours."

What else isn't my responsibility? Or perhaps more importantly, what is?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Do you call for government run, government mandated, government funded, government assisted, "public option" systems?? If you are, you are trying to entitle yourself to something at the expense of another

Do you like public roads and an army to protect you?

Funny.... the military and national defense is in the constitution... your personal care and your personal needs is NOT

By changing the subject, you've admitted that you're a fucking moron with no rebuttal.

Your access to public roads is not restricted.. you can make use of it if you have the means and ability to do so, or make use of someone else's transportation to do so

Not quite. You must have a license to use your personal property to exercise any right to use those roads. You also must only drive at certain speeds, and sometimes the direction of travel depends on the time and day of the week.

Your personal health is not public accessible...

But it's provided for by my neighbors, as I provide for theirs, by ensuring access to emergency medical care to all citizens and legal residents. Our taxes here also go to help fund clinics where the poor can get basic medical care to prevent major illness that could land them in the ER for much more costly and dangerous treatment later.

Also, my health is accessible to the public in that my health enables me to labour and my labour is taxed to provide for the common good.

 

[DiamondDave]

You getting your VD checked or looking into a migraine headache is your problem... you paying for the insurance to cover it or having the cash to pay for it is your problem... it is not a communal problem... whether you think you are receiving enough money for your work.. your problem... whether you want more money that I earn or have... your problem.

Providing for the weak, sick, elderly is OUR problem. The fact that only the very wealthy can afford any degree of health care out of pocket and are the only ones that can afford insurance out of pocket is OUR problem. Educating our children to be competitive and productive in a global society is OUR problem. Keeping corporations from ruling (and ruining) our lives is OUR problem. Leaders who lie us into wars for $$$ agendas is OUR problem. Clean air, water and safe work places is OUR problem. When income disparity gets so lopsided in favor of so few that our economy grinds to a halt, that is OUR problem. When a huge group of people are no longer able to work full time jobs and survive, that is OUR problem. You are not allowed to force your corporatist ideals on us either. They are proving toxic to our country time and again (and again and again) and will destroy it if left unchecked. Please prove me wrong with examples if you disagree.

No... your personal hunger or Joe McSixPack's personal upkeep is not OUR problem... your personal wants, needs, and problems are indeed YOUR problems and YOUR responsibility

The country is not your mommy, your nanny, or your doctor.... the country exists to provide you the freedom to fend for yourself... if you cannot fend for yourself, as in the case of an insane person, you become a ward of the state if you and your family cannot take care of you... and as a ward of the state, you lose the freedoms afforded by the state.. such as a person in an asylum not voting, or being et out to do as they choose.... much as a prisoner, as a ward of the state, loses their freedoms

Your income is on you.. if you don't want to work a second job or do what it takes to get ahead, too bad, too sad....

You do not have the RIGHT to a job... you have the freedom to pursue your job, your income, or not to if you so choose.. but your non-success is not the responsibility of the government or everyone else in this country

And now we have you coming up with the typical winger sloganeering of 'lying us into a war', in some feeble attempt to make a point with some bullshit premise... not gonna fly

No corporation RULES your life... you have the FREEDOM to choose what corporation you wish to use the services of or buy the products of....

You see... freedom is what persons like myself covet.... control is what you and your kind covet....

 

[☭proletarian☭]

According to Mr. Peepers:
...

- It's not my responsibility to make sure i have the ability to see a doctor, it's "ours."

I'm rather glad I could get my wrist fixed when it broke without having to come up with all the money first. I'm glad to know that, had it happened one day earlier, before my health insurance took effect, I could have still received treatment. I'm happy to have two working hands instead of one- and, btw, having two working hands ensures I can still labour as I could before.

If any other citizen or legal resident is ever in a similar situation, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with my taxdollars going to provide fundamental emergency care so they, too, can have working limbs.

But perhaps the concept of compassion for your fellow Man is something alien to you.

- It's not my responsibility to protect myself, it's "ours."

Should we not send the police when you need them? In the event of invasion, should the Army not protect you, your home, and your family?

- It's not my responsibility to educate my children, it's "ours."

I happen to enjoy knowing our children can be taught by multiple people who specialize in their fields of knowledge so we have a nation of competent and informed citizens unlike you.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

No... your personal hunger or Joe McSixPack's personal upkeep is not OUR problem... your personal wants, needs, and problems are indeed YOUR problems and YOUR responsibility

So you agree with the Republican that we should let the poor starve?

Your income is on you.. if you don't want to work a second job or do what it takes to get ahead, too bad, too sad....

We're discussing those not able, not those unwilling.

Nice try, Mr. Herring.

No corporation RULES your life... you have the FREEDOM to choose what corporation you wish to use the services of or buy the products of....

Tell that to those who live in company towns.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

No... your personal hunger or Joe McSixPack's personal upkeep is not OUR problem

I didn't list specific things that you think I want. I listed societal issues. Pay attention. Did I mention my hunger or anyone's personal upkeep?

Why would you want to live in a wealthy, progressive country (well, it was a wealthy country) that treats its most vulnerable citizens like that for no reason other than the greed of a few? It is unnecessary and immoral for a civilized society. And yes, certain aspects of society are the collective's problem, whether you like it or not. Those are what I listed.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

No corporation RULES your life... you have the FREEDOM to choose what corporation you wish to use the services of or buy the products of....

Not if they can now freely buy nominations and elections. That is not freedom.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

And now we have you coming up with the typical winger sloganeering of 'lying us into a war', in some feeble attempt to make a point with some bullshit premise... not gonna fly

That is EXACTLY what happened. Please link your proof otherwise from real sources. I can link plenty o' sources for my argument. Please refute what I said truthfully. You can't, can you?

 

[DiamondDave]

Do you like public roads and an army to protect you?

Funny.... the military and national defense is in the constitution... your personal care and your personal needs is NOT

By changing the subject, you've admitted that you're a fucking moron with no rebuttal.

Your access to public roads is not restricted.. you can make use of it if you have the means and ability to do so, or make use of someone else's transportation to do so

Not quite. You must have a license to use your personal property to exercise any right to use those roads. You also must only drive at certain speeds, and sometimes the direction of travel depends on the time and day of the week.

Your personal health is not public accessible...

But ids provided for by my neighbors, as I provide for theirs, by ensuring access to emergency medical care to all citizens and legal residents. Our taxes here also go to help fund clinics where the poor can get basic medical care to prevent major illness that could land them in the ER for much more costly and dangerous treatment later.

Also, my health is accessible to the public in that my health enables me to labour and my labour is taxed to provide for the common good.

No, you moron.. it is not changing the subject... you mentioned the military and national defense.. which is laid out in our constitution.. you don't want it as a charge of the government, I wish you and ones like you to simply go thru the process of amending the constitution to eliminate it... you have the FREEDOM to pursue that if you wish



No.. you do not need a license to have someone else drive you.. you do not need a license to walk down the street.. you do not need a license to take a greyhound bus... you do not need a license to use a good that was delivered on those roads.... you need a license for the PRIVILEGE to drive a motor vehicle on the roads... nice try

I do not think our taxes should be used for any clinic for you to go have the sniffles looked at or to treat your VD.... I do not think our taxes should be used to subsidize any medical care for anyone.... if I choose to go to a hospital that uses revenues taken from payment of others to hand out free care, that is my choice.. or I can choose not to be admitted to that hospital... I can opt for a private surgical center to have an operation in over a hospital (which I have done)... I fully believe the ER has every right to turn away non emergencies.

Whether you labor or do not labor is of no concern. Your labor benefits you. Your contribution to 'the common' good is irrelevant, as your idea of 'the common good' is some nanny system

If you feel also that charity is not enough, use your freedom to donate as much of your earnings as you wish to bolster the charities.... or if you want charity and there is none being offered to you, than have the freedom to work as much or as little as you wish. But if you don't get what you want or need from your efforts, that is on you. That is your problem. You are not owed anything and you do not have the RIGHT to income or the right to a job...

 

[Some Guy]

If any other citizen or legal resident is ever in a similar situation, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with my taxdollars going to provide fundamental emergency care so they, too can have working limbs.

So if i don't have insurance because i don't really feel like working for it or having it, and i get hit by a truck and break numerous bones, you won't have a problem helping me pay for it? Thanks buddy. I might just do that.

And while i'm at it, i think i'll eat nothing but McDonald's too and never work out. Who wants to bother taking care of themselves and be healthy when "we" will be there to back me up when i inevitably have a heart attack?

But perhaps the concept of compassion for your fellow Man is something alien to you.

Quite the contrary. I put time in with a charity that raises money to provide scholarships to burn survivors.

Should we not send the police when you need them? In the event of invasion, should the Army not protect you, your home, and your family?

I agree that law enforcement and national security are much needed and valid services of the government. The point of that was should i not take necessary steps to protect myself in the event of someone invading my home? Here in Chicago, i'm not allowed to have a handgun to do so.

I happen to enjoy knowing our children can be taught by multiple people who specialize in their fields of knowledge so we have a nation of competent and informed citizens unlike you.

I don't disagree completely and am not opposed to public schools, but rather on a further level. Even outside of normal school time, is it "our" responsibility to teach my kid life lessons, or is it mine? I.E. Should i take responsibility for my child having a good upbringing, or can i just pawn it off onto "us" and then blame society if my kid doesn't turn out right.

 

[DiamondDave]

And now we have you coming up with the typical winger sloganeering of 'lying us into a war', in some feeble attempt to make a point with some bullshit premise... not gonna fly

That is EXACTLY what happened. Please link your proof otherwise from real sources. I can link plenty o' sources for my argument. Please refute what I said truthfully. You can't, can you?

My proof.. my proof is the intel that all nations and governmental and military entities had... my proof is the resolutions that laid out many MANY reasons behind the military actions we have taken.... your simpleton 'lied us into war' mantra does not fly except in the realms of the conspiracy theorists

 

[DiamondDave]

No corporation RULES your life... you have the FREEDOM to choose what corporation you wish to use the services of or buy the products of....

Not if they can now freely buy nominations and elections. That is not freedom.

Show anything where any position has been bought outside of a free election by the rules set forth for all elections... we'll be waiting