Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe

[Siberian]

Half-Ukrainian? Why only a 'half'?

Esay, you know that Ukraine is "somewhere in Russia" for most human kind, and most Americans could hardly spell Ukraine a decade ago.
And most will not find you on the map.

The difference from Russians you ard trying to invent doesn't really exist, and for sure doesn't exist for the rest of the World.

You are just spoiled Russians with more pro-corruption and less pro-statehood mentality, less intelligent but in all other aspects you are Russians, by language, by mentality, by traditions, in everything.

By the way, Poroshenko escaped from Ukraine. So, Ukraine is left without candidates to vote for in next presidential elections!

Probably Zekensky is the last president of Ukraine, there is no one who can be elected without causing new Maidan immediately after he is elected

 

[justinacolmena]

Actually, Putin's approach is a bit different. He usually makes his best proposal at start, and if declined, his terms getting worse.
Right now he just demands fulfilment of NATO obligations (including Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security between NATO and the Russian Federation)
and suggest (for both sides) don't make stupid provocations. It harms only ego of some Western politicians, especially those who believe in some sort of the Western exeptionalism. Next proposal, made on ruines of Kiev or Taipei will be much worse.

The original intent of NATO was for the mutual protection of Europe and North America against Communist Russian aggression.

Now Russia is demanding an unconditional cession of Ukraine from NATO.

Russia is no doubt behind the Dominion software scandal and the stolen U.S. 2020 primary and general elections.

 

[Litwin]

Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe​

Contentious security guarantees Moscow is seeking include a ban on Ukraine from entering Nato​

Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe

Contentious security guarantees Moscow is seeking include a ban on Ukraine from entering Nato

www.theguardian.com

17 Dec 2021 ~~ By Andrew Roth
Russia has put forward a highly contentious list of security guarantees it says it wants the west to agree to in order to lower tensions in Europe and defuse the crisis over Ukraine, including many elements that have already been ruled out.
The demands include a ban on Ukraine entering Nato and a limit to the deployment of troops and weapons to Nato’s eastern flank, in effect returning Nato forces to where they were stationed in 1997, before an eastward expansion.
The eight-point draft treaty was released by Russia’s foreign ministry as its forces massed within striking distance of Ukraine’s borders. Moscow said ignoring its interests would lead to a “military response” similar to the Cuban missile crisis of 1962.
Vladimir Putin has demanded that the west provide Russia “legal guarantees” of its security. But the Kremlin’s aggressive proposals are likely to be rejected in western capitals as an attempt to formalise a new Russian sphere of influence over eastern Europe.
The demands, spelled out by Moscow in full for the first time, were handed over to the US this week. They include a demand that Nato remove any troops or weapons deployed to countries that entered the alliance after 1997, which would include much of eastern Europe, including Poland, the former Soviet countries of Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and the Balkan countries.
~Snip~
The demands, spelled out by Moscow in full for the first time, were handed over to the US this week. They include a demand that Nato remove any troops or weapons deployed to countries that entered the alliance after 1997, which would include much of eastern Europe, including Poland, the former Soviet countries of Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and the Balkan countries.
~Snip~
Russia has massed about 100,000 troops on its side of the border. Joe Biden has warned Putin of “sanctions like he’s never seen” should his troops attack Ukraine. On Thursday, European Union leaders urged Moscow to halt its military buildup and return to talks led by France and Germany.

Commentary:
Joey Xi Bai Dung's great moves since January 2021 have place America and the World in a precarious position. Not only has he driven America into Inflation, given us the Afghanistan debacle, allowed Russia to finish the Nord Stream 2 Pipeline. Now he has given Putin the impetus to threaten Europe with war.
"Moscow said ignoring its interest would lead to a "military response" similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis" of 1962."
It seems that Joey Xi Bai Dung's warning fell on Putin's deaf ears. Putin knows that Joey is weak and unable to follow through with his threat of sanctions and NATO is a farce.
Note that if Putin wins the game of threats with Joey, Europe and NATO, China will take Taiwan without a shot.
Time for Democrats to leave D.C. and let real Americans lead this country....

 

[Silver Cat]

View attachment 577209

View attachment 577210

So what? It's not about money anymore. It's about nuclear weapon. And here Russia has a superiority.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe​

Contentious security guarantees Moscow is seeking include a ban on Ukraine from entering Nato​

Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe

Contentious security guarantees Moscow is seeking include a ban on Ukraine from entering Nato

www.theguardian.com

17 Dec 2021 ~~ By Andrew Roth
Russia has put forward a highly contentious list of security guarantees it says it wants the west to agree to in order to lower tensions in Europe and defuse the crisis over Ukraine, including many elements that have already been ruled out.
The demands include a ban on Ukraine entering Nato and a limit to the deployment of troops and weapons to Nato’s eastern flank, in effect returning Nato forces to where they were stationed in 1997, before an eastward expansion.
The eight-point draft treaty was released by Russia’s foreign ministry as its forces massed within striking distance of Ukraine’s borders. Moscow said ignoring its interests would lead to a “military response” similar to the Cuban missile crisis of 1962.
Vladimir Putin has demanded that the west provide Russia “legal guarantees” of its security. But the Kremlin’s aggressive proposals are likely to be rejected in western capitals as an attempt to formalise a new Russian sphere of influence over eastern Europe.
The demands, spelled out by Moscow in full for the first time, were handed over to the US this week. They include a demand that Nato remove any troops or weapons deployed to countries that entered the alliance after 1997, which would include much of eastern Europe, including Poland, the former Soviet countries of Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and the Balkan countries.
~Snip~
The demands, spelled out by Moscow in full for the first time, were handed over to the US this week. They include a demand that Nato remove any troops or weapons deployed to countries that entered the alliance after 1997, which would include much of eastern Europe, including Poland, the former Soviet countries of Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and the Balkan countries.
~Snip~
Russia has massed about 100,000 troops on its side of the border. Joe Biden has warned Putin of “sanctions like he’s never seen” should his troops attack Ukraine. On Thursday, European Union leaders urged Moscow to halt its military buildup and return to talks led by France and Germany.

Commentary:
Joey Xi Bai Dung's great moves since January 2021 have place America and the World in a precarious position. Not only has he driven America into Inflation, given us the Afghanistan debacle, allowed Russia to finish the Nord Stream 2 Pipeline. Now he has given Putin the impetus to threaten Europe with war.
"Moscow said ignoring its interest would lead to a "military response" similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis" of 1962."
It seems that Joey Xi Bai Dung's warning fell on Putin's deaf ears. Putin knows that Joey is weak and unable to follow through with his threat of sanctions and NATO is a farce.
Note that if Putin wins the game of threats with Joey, Europe and NATO, China will take Taiwan without a shot.
Time for Democrats to leave D.C. and let real Americans lead this country....

Wow, that's just ridiculous. Like Russia thinks it already owns the Ukraine.

 

[Siberian]

Wow, that's just ridiculous. Like Russia thinks it already owns the Ukraine.

Ukraine is not the issue.
The US must withdraw from Europe.

 

[Siberian]

So what? It's not about money anymore. It's about nuclear weapon. And here Russia has a superiority.

So what?! Don't take this fake for real figures, it is good if Americans are inadequate (though dangerous for the World), underestimation of the enemy is lethal., but we should stay real

The reality is like this

https://usdebtclock.org/

Total debt of US citizen (including publuc debt per citizen) is bigger than GDP of a medium European country.
US is going to default and disintegrate within next 5-10 years, maybe earlier.

 

[Silver Cat]

View attachment 577209

View attachment 577210

Talking about economy, Russia isn't a problem per se. Shanghai Pact is a problem. Russia protect them military, they protect Russia economically.

 

[Silver Cat]

So what?! Don't take this fake for real figures, it is good if Americans are inadequate (though dangerous for the World), underestimation of the enemy is lethal., but we should stay real

The reality is like this

https://usdebtclock.org/

Total debt of US citizen (including publuc debt per citizen) is bigger than GDP of a medium European country.
US is going to default and disintegrate within next 5-10 years, maybe earlier.

What is more important - weapon or money? When you have enough of weapon, you can easily nullificate any debt.

 

[Colin norris]

Russian draft documents on legal security guarantees from the United States and NATO | The Vineyard of the Saker

A bird's eye view of the vineyard

thesaker.is

Sounds like a last chance to prevent a war.
It's highly unlikely, that the stupid Bi-Bi administration will accept it, so - let's wait for Russian missiles in Taiwan, Iran, Cuba, Nicaragua, elsewhere...

America will not stand over Russia or China. Putin has now wedged USA with a" do it or else" tactic. He's not as dumb as you think.

 

[Siberian]

What is more important - weapon or money? When you have enough of weapon, you can easily nullificate any debt.

war is very expensive, if not expensive aggresions in Afghanisyan, Iraq etc the US could last longer.

again, between nuclear powers war is hard to imagine, so money is more important.

economy is moreimportant anyway, it is economy which killed the USSR and is killing the US now

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ukraine is not the issue.
The US must withdraw from Europe.

Why must the US withdraw from Europe? European countries can choose who they let into their own countries. Just like Russia can.

 

[Siberian]

Why must the US withdraw from Europe? European countries can choose who they let into their own countries. Just like Russia can.

because Russia finds it dangerous for itself. or, as it recently said, it will go into the mode of creating reciprocal military threats to the US.

European countries may wish whatever they want, it doesn't mean the US must do it.
If Europeans want the US to give a $ million to every EU citizen - will the US do it?
especially when we see that it is not Europeans who want American intervention, if the US imposes sanctions on Germany for building Nord Stream-2..
the same is with US military build up on Russian borders, except a couple of US puppets like Ukraine, ehere the US overthrew a ligitimate president with a coup and installed a Nazi government.

Europe is not a little child, it is rich, developed etc., it can afford itself the army 5 times bigger and stronger than Russian one. Let Europe act on its own, including guaranteeing common security in the continent, without American intervention.

Let US keep its aggression within its own borders.

 

[Baron]

Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe​

Contentious security guarantees Moscow is seeking include a ban on Ukraine from entering Nato​

Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe

Contentious security guarantees Moscow is seeking include a ban on Ukraine from entering Nato

www.theguardian.com

17 Dec 2021 ~~ By Andrew Roth
Russia has put forward a highly contentious list of security guarantees it says it wants the west to agree to in order to lower tensions in Europe and defuse the crisis over Ukraine, including many elements that have already been ruled out.
The demands include a ban on Ukraine entering Nato and a limit to the deployment of troops and weapons to Nato’s eastern flank, in effect returning Nato forces to where they were stationed in 1997, before an eastward expansion.
The eight-point draft treaty was released by Russia’s foreign ministry as its forces massed within striking distance of Ukraine’s borders. Moscow said ignoring its interests would lead to a “military response” similar to the Cuban missile crisis of 1962.
Vladimir Putin has demanded that the west provide Russia “legal guarantees” of its security. But the Kremlin’s aggressive proposals are likely to be rejected in western capitals as an attempt to formalise a new Russian sphere of influence over eastern Europe.
The demands, spelled out by Moscow in full for the first time, were handed over to the US this week. They include a demand that Nato remove any troops or weapons deployed to countries that entered the alliance after 1997, which would include much of eastern Europe, including Poland, the former Soviet countries of Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and the Balkan countries.
~Snip~
The demands, spelled out by Moscow in full for the first time, were handed over to the US this week. They include a demand that Nato remove any troops or weapons deployed to countries that entered the alliance after 1997, which would include much of eastern Europe, including Poland, the former Soviet countries of Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and the Balkan countries.
~Snip~
Russia has massed about 100,000 troops on its side of the border. Joe Biden has warned Putin of “sanctions like he’s never seen” should his troops attack Ukraine. On Thursday, European Union leaders urged Moscow to halt its military buildup and return to talks led by France and Germany.

Commentary:
Joey Xi Bai Dung's great moves since January 2021 have place America and the World in a precarious position. Not only has he driven America into Inflation, given us the Afghanistan debacle, allowed Russia to finish the Nord Stream 2 Pipeline. Now he has given Putin the impetus to threaten Europe with war.
"Moscow said ignoring its interest would lead to a "military response" similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis" of 1962."
It seems that Joey Xi Bai Dung's warning fell on Putin's deaf ears. Putin knows that Joey is weak and unable to follow through with his threat of sanctions and NATO is a farce.
Note that if Putin wins the game of threats with Joey, Europe and NATO, China will take Taiwan without a shot.
Time for Democrats to leave D.C. and let real Americans lead this country....

Russia has nothing to negotiate with the West.
The West want to attack Russia at first, so stop wasting of time.

 

[frigidweirdo]

because Russia finds it dangerous for itself. or, as it recently said, it will go into the mode of creating reciprocal military threats to the US.

European countries may wish whatever they want, it doesn't mean the US must do it.
If Europeans want the US to give a $ million to every EU citizen - will the US do it?
especially when we see that it is not Europeans who want American intervention, if the US imposes sanctions on Germany for building Nord Stream-2..
the same is with US military build up on Russian borders, except a couple of US puppets like Ukraine, ehere the US overthrew a ligitimate president with a coup and installed a Nazi government.

Europe is not a little child, it is rich, developed etc., it can afford itself the army 5 times bigger and stronger than Russian one. Let Europe act on its own, including guaranteeing common security in the continent, without American intervention.

Let US keep its aggression within its own borders.

Oh, Russia is just making a situation. It's looking for a reason to take the Ukraine. Same as the US looked for reason to invade Iraq.

Russia doesn't get to decide what the US does inside of other countries, other than Russia.

 

[Siberian]

Oh, Russia is just making a situation. It's looking for a reason to take the Ukraine. Same as the US looked for reason to invade Iraq.

Russia doesn't get to decide what the US does inside of other countries, other than Russia.

we are not as stupid as the US to invade a country, to spend hundreds of billions to later retreat with shame

Ukraine is a disaster, a corrupt nation which already destroyed its industry.
There is nothing worth there, exceot maybe some area to connect Crimea with mainland Russia.

it is of more use for Russia as a burden for the US.

If Russia doesn't get to decide what the US does on Russian borders - nuclear drones near US shores, capable of making radioactive tsunami may make the US to decide in right way by themselves

 

[Siberian]

the picture is not quite correct, predominant winds are from New Orleans to New York, so tsunami should be made in Mexican gulf and near California, not in New York.
In New York only tsunami will be effective, while radioactive fallout will not.

Status-6 Oceanic Multipurpose System - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Siberian]

Since the US does not understand it in another way -

Carribean crisis - 2.0 is coming and it will not be about American nuclear missiles in Turkey and Soviet missiles in Cuba.
It will be about US missiles in Poland and invisible, unstoppable 100 kiloton nuclear drones somewhere near New Orleans, New York and Los Angeles...

and London, of course

 

[Silver Cat]

Oh, Russia is just making a situation. It's looking for a reason to take the Ukraine. Same as the US looked for reason to invade Iraq.

Russia doesn't get to decide what the US does inside of other countries, other than Russia.

Does it mean, that the US also shouldn't have care about Russian missiles in Cuba back in 1962?
The USA had three opportunities:
1) To start the war against Fidel's regime before he got significant Soviet military help;
2) To violate international laws by recon flights, start blockade, find Soviet ballistic missiles, treat the USSR with all out nuclear war, and withdraw American medium-range missiles from Europe;
3) To do nothing, and to be suddenly nuked by Soviets in March 1963.

What would you choose?

 

[Ringo]

Stoltenberg opposed a new conference with Russia on spheres of influence

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg rejected the idea of a dialogue with Russia on spheres of influence. Holding such a conference is a step back, he said in an interview with the Journal de Dimanche newspaper.

"The idea of a new conference where we re-discuss areas of influence in which the great powers could control what their neighbors can and cannot do would force us to retreat, and this is completely the wrong direction," he said.

On the other hand, NATO stands for discussing confidence-building measures, arms control, transparency of exercises, reducing tensions and "everything that could improve relations" with Russia.
"But not at the expense of violating our fundamental principles," Stoltenberg stressed.

The NATO Secretary General said that Moscow "de facto demands the return of Ukraine to the sphere of influence" of Russia, and in the event of an invasion of Ukrainian territory, it will have to "pay a high price."

The NATO military alliance continues its expansion process, despite protests from Russia, Stoltenberg said on December 16.
"NATO continues the process of expansion. We have already accepted Montenegro and Northern Macedonia, despite the protests of Russia," Stoltenberg said.

He noted that the alliance will not compromise with Russia, which demands to reconsider the alliance's promise to "eventually accept" Ukraine and Georgia, given at the NATO summit in Bucharest in April 2008.

On December 17, the Russian Foreign Ministry published drafts of a treaty with the United States and an agreement with the NATO military alliance on guarantees and security. In particular, the documents suggest a refusal to deploy medium- and shorter-range ground-based missiles outside its territory and a refusal to expand the NATO military bloc to the east.
---
America refuses the outstretched hand of friendship and cooperation... Well, she doesn't want a DIALOGUE in this format today... And I wonder why? Does Capital want to solve all its economic and political problems at the expense of a "small victorious war" with Russia?
Do you understand what monsters rule you?