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I already showed this numerous times.
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf
This is a CIA memo the justice department. It was declassified by Obama.
It shows that all measures short of waterboarding failed to get the 3 arch terrorists to talk.
When asked about futher terrorist attacks, they simply responded "soon you will know".
After being waterboarding they revealed information that:
- Thwarted a terrorist attack to crash a plane into a LA building
- Stopped a terrorist attack to build and explode a "dirty bomb" in Washington D.C.
- Half of all the information about Al Qaida came from this.
The waterboarding done to the terrorists was milder than the waterboarding done to some of the CIA personnel during their training.
In the training the subject is:
Totally immersed in water
The water is below 41 degrees F
With the arch terrorists
They were splashed with water
It was always above 41 degrees F
Yes, it's means to be very unpleasant.
Also, there were medical doctors who ascertained befor hand that no phyiscial or mental severe suffering would occur, and they were monitored during the whole process.
In fact, some waterboardings were not allowed because of the medical personnel's conclusions.
All it takes is a very simple search:
Why al-Qaida's plot to bomb L.A.'s Library Tower didn't warrant torture. - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine
The first reason to be skeptical that this planned attack could have been carried out successfully is that, as I've noted before, attacking buildings by flying planes into them didn't remain a viable al-Qaida strategy even through Sept. 11, 2001. Thanks to cell phones, passengers on United Flight 93 were able to learn that al-Qaida was using planes as missiles and crashed the plane before it could hit its target. There was no way future passengers on any flight would let a terrorist who killed the pilot and took the controls fly wherever he pleased.
A subsequent fact sheet released by the Bush White House states, "In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast." These two statements make clear that however far the plot to attack the Library Tower ever got—an unnamed senior FBI official would later tell the Los Angeles Times that Bush's characterization of it as a "disrupted plot" was "ludicrous"—that plot was foiled in 2002. But Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 2003.
-------------------------------------------
Bush and the Republicans. The party of deception, lies and greed.
What possible relevance does this editoral have?
I posted the Obama declassified CIA/Justice Department memo.
This guys fairy tales have nothing to do with the issue.
Also what an unnamed FBI person thinks doesn't matter, since this was handled by the CIA.
"In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast."
Stopped a terrorist attack to build and explode a "dirty bomb" in Washington D.C.
All it takes is a very simple search:
Why al-Qaida's plot to bomb L.A.'s Library Tower didn't warrant torture. - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine
The first reason to be skeptical that this planned attack could have been carried out successfully is that, as I've noted before, attacking buildings by flying planes into them didn't remain a viable al-Qaida strategy even through Sept. 11, 2001. Thanks to cell phones, passengers on United Flight 93 were able to learn that al-Qaida was using planes as missiles and crashed the plane before it could hit its target. There was no way future passengers on any flight would let a terrorist who killed the pilot and took the controls fly wherever he pleased.
A subsequent fact sheet released by the Bush White House states, "In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast." These two statements make clear that however far the plot to attack the Library Tower ever got—an unnamed senior FBI official would later tell the Los Angeles Times that Bush's characterization of it as a "disrupted plot" was "ludicrous"—that plot was foiled in 2002. But Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 2003.
-------------------------------------------
Bush and the Republicans. The party of deception, lies and greed.
What possible relevance does this editoral have?
I posted the Obama declassified CIA/Justice Department memo.
This guys fairy tales have nothing to do with the issue.
Also what an unnamed FBI person thinks doesn't matter, since this was handled by the CIA.
--------------
"In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast."
The memo you posted does not support that claim.
It was not a CIA memo, it was a DoJ memo.
Stopped a terrorist attack to build and explode a "dirty bomb" in Washington D.C.
Nor does it support this statement you made.
We haven't tortured."We haven't tortured."
I don't think you have any supporting evidence to back up that statement. We have prosecuted the act at home and abroad.
Bleeding heart? Uh, no.
You didn't answer the question.
So, does understanding more about your enemy justify torture?
That's the second time I answered your question.
I went through S.E.A.R... It's uncomfortable as all hell, certainly not torture. I have no problem with the CIA making those who want to kill my fellow americans feel uncomfortable. No problem whatsoever.
What we prosecuted was TORTURE. The tecniques involved are night and day. If you educate yourself, you'll see that's true.
Fuck that image garbage. Our enemy doesn't give a shit about image. They want to cut YOUR head off regardless of image.
But, the bottom line is, we haven't tortured hence, nobody's being tried for torture. Facts are facts!
Just because you say it isn't torture does not make it so.
They exceeded the SEAR training.
The techniques are not night and day. You obviously have not read what we did.
Again, if it was not a problem and so productive why did we stop doing it in 2004???????????
The CIA Inspector General obviously disagrees with you. And I dare say he might have a bit more info on the subject.
No mention of torture whatsoever.The controversial interrogation technique known as waterboarding, in which a suspect has water poured over his mouth and nose to stimulate a drowning reflex, has been banned by CIA director Gen. Michael Hayden, current and former CIA officials tell ABCNews.com
The officials say Hayden made the decision at the recommendation of his deputy, Steve Kappes, and received approval from the White House to remove waterboarding from the list of approved interrogation techniques first authorized by a presidential finding in 2002.
The officials say the decision was made sometime last year but has never been publicly disclosed.
.
No ones been fired, no ones been prosecuted.
What they did was simply change tecniques to appease the bleeding hearts.
We are still using enhanced interrogation, and if you think otherwise, than yes, you are seriously naive!
But the fact of the matter is, we never tortured!
Now, the Japs and Pol Pot?...... they tortured!
No wonder the lefties are so confused, they rely on their left wing blogs for their facts, and we rely on the actual documentation from the agencies that directly handled these affairs.
Saddam did have ties with Al Qaida that went back a decade.
What possible relevance does this editoral have?
I posted the Obama declassified CIA/Justice Department memo.
This guys fairy tales have nothing to do with the issue.
Also what an unnamed FBI person thinks doesn't matter, since this was handled by the CIA.
--------------
The memo you posted does not support that claim.
It was not a CIA memo, it was a DoJ memo.
Stopped a terrorist attack to build and explode a "dirty bomb" in Washington D.C.
Nor does it support this statement you made.
Page 10
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf
Interrogations of Zubaydah-again, once enhanced techniques were empfoyedfurnished
detailed information regarding a( Qaeda's "organizational structure, key operatives,
and modus operandi" and identified KSM as the mastermind of tile September 11 attacks. See
Briefing Notes at 4. You have informed us that Zubaydah also "provided significant infonnation on two operatives, [including] Jose Padilla-[,] who planned to build and detonate a 'dirty bomb in Wasbington DC area."
This is from page 10 too, the formatting is kind of messed up.
With these caveats, we tum to specific examples that you have provided to us. You have
informed us that the interrogation ofKSM.....-,Ql1ce enhanced techniques were employed-led to
the discovery of a KSM piot, the "Second Wave," "to use East Asian operatives to crash a
hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles. Fjfectiveness Memo at 3, You have informed
us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture ofRidl.ltil1 bin Isomudditl, better
known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member lemaah Islatniyah cell tasked with executing the "Second Wave," See/d. at 3-4; CIA Directorate ofJIltellige.l1ce, AlQa'ida's Ties to Other Key Terror Grotlps: Terrorists Links in a Chain 2 (Aug. 28, 2003), More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he bad . " a
of money to an a1 Qaeda associate. See Fax fro
C1 Counterterrorist Center, Briefing Notes on the e Reporting at 1
15,2005) ("Briefing Notes'). Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who
was thcncaptured. Zubair, in turn, provided jnformation that led to the arrest ofHambali. See
id The information acquired from these captures allm'lcd CIA interroggators to pose more
specific questions to KSlvf, which led the CIA Hambali's brother, al-HadL Using information
obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi "vas captured, and he subsequently identified the Guraba
cd!. See id at 1 With the aid oftbis additional information, interrogations ofHambali
confirmed much of what was learned from KSM
--------------
The memo you posted does not support that claim.
It was not a CIA memo, it was a DoJ memo.
Nor does it support this statement you made.
Page 10
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf
Interrogations of Zubaydah-again, once enhanced techniques were empfoyedfurnished
detailed information regarding a( Qaeda's "organizational structure, key operatives,
and modus operandi" and identified KSM as the mastermind of tile September 11 attacks. See
Briefing Notes at 4. You have informed us that Zubaydah also "provided significant infonnation on two operatives, [including] Jose Padilla-[,] who planned to build and detonate a 'dirty bomb in Wasbington DC area."
This is from page 10 too, the formatting is kind of messed up.
With these caveats, we tum to specific examples that you have provided to us. You have
informed us that the interrogation ofKSM.....-,Ql1ce enhanced techniques were employed-led to
the discovery of a KSM piot, the "Second Wave," "to use East Asian operatives to crash a
hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles. Fjfectiveness Memo at 3, You have informed
us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture ofRidl.ltil1 bin Isomudditl, better
known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member lemaah Islatniyah cell tasked with executing the "Second Wave," See/d. at 3-4; CIA Directorate ofJIltellige.l1ce, AlQa'ida's Ties to Other Key Terror Grotlps: Terrorists Links in a Chain 2 (Aug. 28, 2003), More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he bad . " a
of money to an a1 Qaeda associate. See Fax fro
C1 Counterterrorist Center, Briefing Notes on the e Reporting at 1
15,2005) ("Briefing Notes'). Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who
was thcncaptured. Zubair, in turn, provided jnformation that led to the arrest ofHambali. See
id The information acquired from these captures allm'lcd CIA interroggators to pose more
specific questions to KSlvf, which led the CIA Hambali's brother, al-HadL Using information
obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi "vas captured, and he subsequently identified the Guraba
cd!. See id at 1 With the aid oftbis additional information, interrogations ofHambali
confirmed much of what was learned from KSM
Does everything have to be spelled out?
----attacking buildings by flying planes into them didn't remain a viable al-Qaida strategy even through Sept. 11, 2001. Thanks to cell phones, passengers on United Flight 93 were able to learn that al-Qaida was using planes as missiles and crashed the plane before it could hit its target. There was no way future passengers on any flight would let a terrorist who killed the pilot and took the controls fly wherever he pleased.
Saddam did have ties with Al Qaida that went back a decade.
Testimony of CIA Director Tenet in front of the Senate Intelligence Committee
Levin: And relative to Iraq, a couple other questions: Do we--do you have any evidence that Saddam Hussein or his agents played a role in the September 11th terrorist attacks or that he has links to al Qaeda?
Tenet: Well, as I note in my statement, there is no doubt that there have been contacts and linkages to the al Qaeda organization. As to where we are in September 11th, the jury's out. And as I said carefully in my statement, it would be a mistake to dismiss the possibility of state sponsorship, whether Iranian or Iraqi, and we'll see where the evidence takes us. But I want you to think about al Qaeda as a front company that mixes and matches its capabilities. The distinctions between Sunni and Shia that have traditionally divided terrorist groups are not distinctions you should make anymore, because there is a common interest against the United States and its allies in this region, and they will seek capability wherever they can get it.
Page 10
http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/olc_05302005_bradbury.pdf
Interrogations of Zubaydah-again, once enhanced techniques were empfoyedfurnished
detailed information regarding a( Qaeda's "organizational structure, key operatives,
and modus operandi" and identified KSM as the mastermind of tile September 11 attacks. See
Briefing Notes at 4. You have informed us that Zubaydah also "provided significant infonnation on two operatives, [including] Jose Padilla-[,] who planned to build and detonate a 'dirty bomb in Wasbington DC area."
This is from page 10 too, the formatting is kind of messed up.
With these caveats, we tum to specific examples that you have provided to us. You have
informed us that the interrogation ofKSM.....-,Ql1ce enhanced techniques were employed-led to
the discovery of a KSM piot, the "Second Wave," "to use East Asian operatives to crash a
hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles. Fjfectiveness Memo at 3, You have informed
us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture ofRidl.ltil1 bin Isomudditl, better
known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member lemaah Islatniyah cell tasked with executing the "Second Wave," See/d. at 3-4; CIA Directorate ofJIltellige.l1ce, AlQa'ida's Ties to Other Key Terror Grotlps: Terrorists Links in a Chain 2 (Aug. 28, 2003), More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he bad . " a
of money to an a1 Qaeda associate. See Fax fro
C1 Counterterrorist Center, Briefing Notes on the e Reporting at 1
15,2005) ("Briefing Notes'). Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who
was thcncaptured. Zubair, in turn, provided jnformation that led to the arrest ofHambali. See
id The information acquired from these captures allm'lcd CIA interroggators to pose more
specific questions to KSlvf, which led the CIA Hambali's brother, al-HadL Using information
obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi "vas captured, and he subsequently identified the Guraba
cd!. See id at 1 With the aid oftbis additional information, interrogations ofHambali
confirmed much of what was learned from KSM
Does everything have to be spelled out?
----attacking buildings by flying planes into them didn't remain a viable al-Qaida strategy even through Sept. 11, 2001. Thanks to cell phones, passengers on United Flight 93 were able to learn that al-Qaida was using planes as missiles and crashed the plane before it could hit its target. There was no way future passengers on any flight would let a terrorist who killed the pilot and took the controls fly wherever he pleased.
And this person's opinion is relevant because?
Saddam did have ties with Al Qaida that went back a decade.
Saddam killed members of his own family to stay in power. He would never let a mad cleric into his country to threaten his regime.
AND
Bin Laden tried to put together a coalition to force Saddam out of Kuwait. After that they would be "friends and allies"?
Are you stuck on "stupid"? Seriously, have you been eating "batshit"?
Testimony of CIA Director Tenet in front of the Senate Intelligence Committee
Levin: And relative to Iraq, a couple other questions: Do we--do you have any evidence that Saddam Hussein or his agents played a role in the September 11th terrorist attacks or that he has links to al Qaeda?
Tenet: Well, as I note in my statement, there is no doubt that there have been contacts and linkages to the al Qaeda organization. As to where we are in September 11th, the jury's out. And as I said carefully in my statement, it would be a mistake to dismiss the possibility of state sponsorship, whether Iranian or Iraqi, and we'll see where the evidence takes us. But I want you to think about al Qaeda as a front company that mixes and matches its capabilities. The distinctions between Sunni and Shia that have traditionally divided terrorist groups are not distinctions you should make anymore, because there is a common interest against the United States and its allies in this region, and they will seek capability wherever they can get it.
You have to post your links with this, otherwise the mods will make you remove the post.
By the way, when was the date on this? It's been said by many people (outside of the Texas Mafia), that there was no AQ connection, no WMD's, and we shouldn't have gone after Saddam.
That's one of the reasons Colin Powell left Bush Jr. He didn't want to be used again to support lies to the American people.
Seedy Mike, you're weapons grade stupid.