Rewarding failure

[Care4all]

i seem to recall the dem controled congress.....voted overwhelmingly for this plan......

You remember wrong. There was no vote on the AIG bailout.

the 750 billion bank bailout had no vote......

it was in addition to the bailout, out side of it....

AIG did not get TARP money

 

[Care4all]

the 750 billion bank bailout had no vote......

no, you're confused. The $750 billion one was the one mccain suspended his campaign for to fly back to washington to vote for. The federal reserve bailed out aig. Wiki it.

so you are saying the funds given to aig were not a part of the 750 billion tarp funds that mcain and obama flew back to vote on......that the fed reserve just took it upon themselves to pass out 150 billion to aig that had nothing to do with the 750 billion tarp package ......

yep

 

[manu1959]

You remember wrong. There was no vote on the AIG bailout.

the 750 billion bank bailout had no vote......

it was in addition to the bailout, out side of it....

AIG did not get TARP money

aig got tarp money and the government owns preferd stock.....Troubled Assets Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia......

 

[Ravi]

the 750 billion bank bailout had no vote......

No, you're confused. The $750 billion one was the one McCain suspended his campaign for to fly back to Washington to vote for. The Federal Reserve bailed out AIG. Wiki it.

so you are saying the funds given to aig were not a part of the 750 billion tarp funds that mcain and obama flew back to vote on......that the fed reserve just took it upon themselves to pass out 150 billion to aig that had nothing to do with the 750 billion tarp package ......

Yes.

 

[manu1959]

no, you're confused. The $750 billion one was the one mccain suspended his campaign for to fly back to washington to vote for. The federal reserve bailed out aig. Wiki it.

so you are saying the funds given to aig were not a part of the 750 billion tarp funds that mcain and obama flew back to vote on......that the fed reserve just took it upon themselves to pass out 150 billion to aig that had nothing to do with the 750 billion tarp package ......

yep

wrong

 

[Care4all]

the 750 billion bank bailout had no vote......

it was in addition to the bailout, out side of it....

AIG did not get TARP money

aig got tarp money and the government owns preferd stock.....Troubled Assets Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia......

it RECENTLY got money from the $750 billion TARP is my understanding....

the first and second bailouts, sept 08 and november 08 were not part of the TARP bill funds.... i posted links earlier. let me see if i understood them correctly...

 

[manu1959]

it was in addition to the bailout, out side of it....

AIG did not get TARP money

aig got tarp money and the government owns preferd stock.....Troubled Assets Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia......

it RECENTLY got money from the $750 billion TARP is my understanding....

the first and second bailouts, sept 08 and november 08 were not part of the TARP bill funds.... i posted links earlier. let me see if i understood them correctly...

700 or 750 billion in tarp funds was voted on and passed in 08.....the fed then passed out about half of it.......saving the other half for the obama admin.....aig got funds from that first pass out......and will probably get funds the next time.....

the false outrage by the politicians is a fucking joke......

the goal all along has been to deamonize the rich and the corporations so as to raise taxes to pay for the billions in social programs that were just passed ......

notice the news is now all about the evil rich and the evil corporations......nothing about the war.....nothing about the social programs......and nothing but good news about the economy.......housing starts are up.....sales are up....stock market is up......

 

[Care4all]

aig got tarp money and the government owns preferd stock.....Troubled Assets Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia......

it RECENTLY got money from the $750 billion TARP is my understanding....

the first and second bailouts, sept 08 and november 08 were not part of the TARP bill funds.... i posted links earlier. let me see if i understood them correctly...

700 or 750 billion in tarp funds was voted on and passed in 08.....the fed then passed out about half of it.......saving the other half for the obama admin.....aig got funds from that first pass out......and will probably get funds the next time.....

the false outrage by the politicians is a fucking joke......

the goal all along has been to deamonize the rich and the corporations so as to raise taxes to pay for the billions in social programs that were just passed ......

notice the news is now all about the evil rich and the evil corporations......nothing about the war.....nothing about the social programs......and nothing but good news about the economy.......housing starts are up.....sales are up....stock market is up......

they got $85 BILLION before tarp passed in september 08, they got another $65 BILLION in November of 2008 and a renegotiation of the original $85 billion to a lower interest rate....

HERE IS THE LINK to the post where the 2 articles go over it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-is-rewarding-incompetence-2.html#post1099457

your link says AIG got 40 billion in Tarp money....that could be in addition to these separate bailouts, maybe? i dunno???

care

 

[Care4all]

the treasury passed out half, not the FED, unless you meant the fed gvt?

 

[manu1959]

it RECENTLY got money from the $750 billion TARP is my understanding....

the first and second bailouts, sept 08 and november 08 were not part of the TARP bill funds.... i posted links earlier. let me see if i understood them correctly...

700 or 750 billion in tarp funds was voted on and passed in 08.....the fed then passed out about half of it.......saving the other half for the obama admin.....aig got funds from that first pass out......and will probably get funds the next time.....

the false outrage by the politicians is a fucking joke......

the goal all along has been to deamonize the rich and the corporations so as to raise taxes to pay for the billions in social programs that were just passed ......

notice the news is now all about the evil rich and the evil corporations......nothing about the war.....nothing about the social programs......and nothing but good news about the economy.......housing starts are up.....sales are up....stock market is up......

they got $85 BILLION before tarp passed in september 08, they got another $65 BILLION in November of 2008 and a renegotiation of the original $85 billion to a lower interest rate....

HERE IS THE LINK to the post where the 2 articles go over it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-is-rewarding-incompetence-2.html#post1099457

your link says AIG got 40 billion in Tarp money....that could be in addition to these separate bailouts, maybe? i dunno???

care

sorry....


AFP: US expands record bailout of insurance giant AIG

 

[Care4all]

700 or 750 billion in tarp funds was voted on and passed in 08.....the fed then passed out about half of it.......saving the other half for the obama admin.....aig got funds from that first pass out......and will probably get funds the next time.....

the false outrage by the politicians is a fucking joke......

the goal all along has been to deamonize the rich and the corporations so as to raise taxes to pay for the billions in social programs that were just passed ......

notice the news is now all about the evil rich and the evil corporations......nothing about the war.....nothing about the social programs......and nothing but good news about the economy.......housing starts are up.....sales are up....stock market is up......

they got $85 BILLION before tarp passed in september 08, they got another $65 BILLION in November of 2008 and a renegotiation of the original $85 billion to a lower interest rate....

HERE IS THE LINK to the post where the 2 articles go over it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-is-rewarding-incompetence-2.html#post1099457

your link says AIG got 40 billion in Tarp money....that could be in addition to these separate bailouts, maybe? i dunno???

care

sorry....


AFP: US expands record bailout of insurance giant AIG

sorry what? huh? your link confirmed what i said...????

 

[Zoom-boing]

the treasury passed out half, not the FED, unless you meant the fed gvt?

I think it's the Federal Reserve? And Geithner was president of the Fed Reserve Bank of NY at the time . . .

Press Release
Federal Reserve Press Release

Release Date: September 16, 2008
For release at 9:00 p.m. EDT

The Federal Reserve Board on Tuesday, with the full support of the Treasury Department, authorized the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to lend up to $85 billion to the American International Group (AIG) under section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act. The secured loan has terms and conditions designed to protect the interests of the U.S. government and taxpayers.

FRB: Press Release--Federal Reserve Board, with full support of the Treasury Department, authorizes the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to lend up to $85 billion to the American International Group (AIG)--September 16, 2008

 

[manu1959]

they got $85 BILLION before tarp passed in september 08, they got another $65 BILLION in November of 2008 and a renegotiation of the original $85 billion to a lower interest rate....

HERE IS THE LINK to the post where the 2 articles go over it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-is-rewarding-incompetence-2.html#post1099457

your link says AIG got 40 billion in Tarp money....that could be in addition to these separate bailouts, maybe? i dunno???

care

sorry....


AFP: US expands record bailout of insurance giant AIG

sorry what? huh? your link confirmed what i said...????

no as i read it .... it says that the final funds distributed came from tarp funds.....cut and past the paragraph you belive indicates that there were funds given to aig prior to the tarp funds being approved..... also post the link you referenced earlier that they got money prior to and outside of the tarp funds....i couldn't find it.....

educate me......i am olde and my memory is fuzzy.....and now it is time for my nap ...back in awhile

 

[Ravi]

So we were all correct...the first two pieces of the bailout were done by the Fed...165, then another 40 was given from the TARP money. So Bern's idiotic statement was rightfully called idiotic.

 

[Bern80]

Obama, Frank and lefties almost turned me into part of the raging mob on this one. But a little perspective people.

AIG was bailed by the left to the tune of about $170 billion. AIG is reported to owe apprixmately $165 Million in contracutal bonuses. Now, Obama is really pulling the wool over people's eyes when he says he is outraged that AIG is spending tax payer money on bonuses. Anyone care to do the math on the above and tell us what percentage of the bailout money is being spent on bonuses?

The other laugher is the implied contention that the taxpayers should be outraged at AIG for this infintecimal expenditure of the bailout money. WRONG Mr. President. The taxpayers should be outraged at YOU. Because it was YOU that decided to spend taxpayer money on them in the first place. We all know the bailout was never popular with the taxpayers.

I have posted this before, but it bares repeating as this a striking example. Milton Friedman said from most to least effective, there are 3 ways to spend money.

Spend your money on you.
Spend other people's money on you.
Spend other people's money on other people.

The bailout is obviously the last. Bailing out these companies is the equivalent if giving an allowance to a kid that didn't do his chores. Doing so simply reinforces bad behavior. Considering AIG needed to be bailed out in the first place, why is everyone so stunned that they are being irresponsible with what is essentially an incentive package to continue irresponsible behavior?

The next is that now are President apparently wants to set a precedent that the government can null legal contracts. The bonuses are money that AIG gaurunteed to there employees. Most of us agree it may not be the wisest in hind sight, but the fact is it is money they have a legal obligation to pay.

YOU HAVE LOST YOUR MIND

the bush administration, secretary paulsen and the FED bailed Aig out...in sept and november of LAST YEAR bern???? do some reading....on it, i have posted several articles today... care

the correction is minor to me as it doesn't make either in better in my eyes. Who bailed them out is not the point. Obama hasn't really shown that he is anti-bailout. It also doesn't change the lunacay of the feigned indignation either.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Personally? I'd like to see LOTS of people outside of every fucking AIG office, standing there, poised to throw shoes at 'em.

Wouldn't mind seeing a couple of 'em popsicled on a baseball bat either.

 

[DiveCon]

This mess is the TRUE DEFINITION of Murphy's Law, what can go wrong, will go wrong.

It is a multitude of mistakes and bad business practices due to greed.... all not even closely related, but where if just one of them was not done, the whole ponzi scheme would not have flourished.

and dont forget government interference as well
its ALL part of this mess

we never should have been bailing out ANY company
EVER

 

[Zoom-boing]

This mess is the TRUE DEFINITION of Murphy's Law, what can go wrong, will go wrong.

It is a multitude of mistakes and bad business practices due to greed.... all not even closely related, but where if just one of them was not done, the whole ponzi scheme would not have flourished.

and dont forget government interference as well
its ALL part of this mess

we never should have been bailing out ANY company
EVER

I believe that as well, Dive. Bush started it . . . and Obama is following in his footsteps.

What to do now? Give the bonuses (or have they already been given); tax them; break the contract (that they damn well knew about)? If the AIG big wigs had any moxy at all, they'd reject the bonuses. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Care4all]

sorry....


AFP: US expands record bailout of insurance giant AIG

sorry what? huh? your link confirmed what i said...????

no as i read it .... it says that the final funds distributed came from tarp funds.....cut and past the paragraph you belive indicates that there were funds given to aig prior to the tarp funds being approved..... also post the link you referenced earlier that they got money prior to and outside of the tarp funds....i couldn't find it.....

educate me......i am olde and my memory is fuzzy.....and now it is time for my nap ...back in awhile

that's from wikipedia...

Federal Reserve bailout

On the evening of September 16, 2008, the Federal Reserve Bank's Board of Governors announced that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York had been authorized to create a 24-month credit-liquidity facility from which AIG may draw up to $85 billion. The loan is collateralized by the assets of AIG, including its non-regulated subsidiaries and the stock of "substantially all" its regulated subsidiaries, and has an interest rate of 850 basis points over the three-month London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR) (i.e., LIBOR plus 8.5%). In exchange for the credit facility, the U.S. government will receive warrants for a 79.9 percent equity stake in AIG, and has the right to suspend the payment of dividends to AIG common and preferred shareholders.[3][6] The credit facility was created under the auspices of Section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act.[6][21][22] AIG's board of directors announced approval of the loan transaction in a press release the same day. The announcement did not comment on the issuance of a warrant for 79.9% of AIG's equity, but the AIG 8-K filing of September 18, 2008, reporting the transaction to the Securities and Exchange Commission stated that a warrant for 79.9% of AIG shares had been issued to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve.[23][7][3] AIG drew down US$ 28 billion of the credit-liquidity facility on September 17, 2008.[24] On September 22, 2008, AIG was officially removed from the Dow Jones Industrial Average.[25] An additional $37.8 billion loan was extended in October. As of October 24, AIG has drawn a total of $90.3 billion from the emergency loan, of a total $122.8 billion.[26]

Maurice Greenberg, former CEO of AIG, on September 17, 2008, characterized the bailout as a nationalization of AIG. He also stated: he was “bewildered” by the situation and was at a loss over how the entire situation got out of control as it did.[27] On September 17, 2008, Federal Reserve Bank chair Ben Bernanke asked Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson join him, to call on members of Congress, to describe the need for case for a congressionally authorized bailout of the nation's banking system. Weeks later, Congress approved the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008.

Bernanke said to Paulson on September 17:[28]

We can’t keep doing this, both because we at the Fed don’t have the necessary resources and for reasons of democratic legitimacy, it’s important that the Congress come in and take control of the situation.

[edit] Additional Bailouts of 2008

On October 9, 2008, the company borrowed an additional $37.8 billion via a second secured asset credit facility created by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.[29] From mid September till early November, AIG's credit-default spreads were steadily rising, implying the company was heading for default.[30]

On November 10, 2008, the U.S. Treasury announced it would purchase $40 billion in newly issued AIG senior preferred stock, under the authority of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act's Troubled Asset Relief Program.[31][32][33] The Federal Reserve Bank of New York (FRBNY) announced that it would modify the September 16th secured credit facility; the Treasury investment would permit a reduction in its size from $85 billion to $60 billion, and that the FRBNY would extend the life of the facility from three to five years, and change the interest rate from 8.5% plus the three-month London interbank offered rate (LIBOR) for the total credit facility, to 3% plus LIBOR for funds drawn down, and 0.75% plus LIBOR for funds not drawn, and that AIG would create two off- balance-sheet Limited Liability Companies (LLC) to hold AIG assets: one will act as an AIG Residential Mortgage-Backed Securities Facility and the second to act as an AIG Collateralized Debt Obligations Facility.[33][31] Federal officials said the $40 billion investment would ultimately permit the government to reduce the total exposure to AIG to $112 billion from $152 billion.[31]

that's from your link!

the $40 billion in tarp money for AIG will be used to pay off some of what they borrowed from the FED Bailout of $152 billion

US expands record bailout of insurance giant AIG

Nov 10, 2008

WASHINGTON (AFP) — The US government announced Monday an expanded bailout for insurance giant AIG of more than 150 billion dollars, as the Treasury tapped into emergency funds originally set for banks.

The latest bailout plan, the largest in US history, came as AIG burned through billions of dollars of cash and reported a third-quarter loss of 24.47 billion dollars.

The original Federal Reserve rescue of 85 billion dollars in mid-September, at the time the largest in corporate history, was expanded by 37.8 billion dollars just a few weeks later, and involved the government acquisition of a 79.9 percent stake in the troubled insurer.

But AIG, the world's largest insurer before the global credit crisis, has continued to suffer from soured bets on credit default swaps (CDS) and other complex financial instruments amid a financial crisis that accelerated in October.

Under the revised program for AIG announced Monday, the Treasury will replace the entire previous package with a larger, longer-term 152.5 billion dollar program, including a 60 billion dollar five-year loan and 52.5 billion dollars to buy up distressed securities.

The Treasury will tap its Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) for 40 billion dollars to buy preferential shares in the company.

"This action was necessary to maintain the stability of our financial system," said Neel Kashkari, the head of the US Treasury's 700 billion dollar rescue operation for the financial industry established in October.

"We recognize that the financial system remains fragile and we continue to stand ready to prevent systemic failures," he said.

The White House emphasized the huge risk of an AIG failure and defended the Treasury's extension of the financial lifeline to the insurer.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed chairman Ben Bernanke "have determined that a failure by the firm would cause damage to our financial system, the US economy and the global economy," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters.

"Today's announcement is new proof that the TARP will be used more and more to bail out distressed companies -- and not only banks -- instead of its initial goal of buying toxic assets," Marie-Pierre Ripert, analyst at Natixis.

The rescue came as AIG reported its balance sheet deteriorated quickly over the third quarter.

The company said it took 15 billion dollars in provisions, reporting that in addition to losses in its credit default swaps portfolio and securities lending business, its general insurance division was in the red to the tune of 899 million dollars, compared with a profit of 2.51 billion dollars a year ago.

AIG chief executive Edward Liddy defended the expanded aid from Treasury, saying it puts AIG "in a much better position" to address its problems and set it toward recovery.

The extra money gives AIG "more flexibility and more time" to sell assets.

"It is a smart, disciplined process," he said in a conference call with reporters.

"AIG is, in fact, on the road of recovery."

The Treasury rescue, however, suggests that AIG's recovery period could be much longer than anticipated just a few months ago.

In the new program, the previous 85 billion dollar loan is cut to 60 billion, and a lower interest rate is set, but its duration is extended to five years from two.

Another 52.5 billion dollars is provided to purchase distressed assets from the company, including 30 billion for collateralized debt obligations and 22.5 billion for residential mortgage-backed securities.

Thirdly, the government will use 40 billion dollars in TARP funds to buy AIG preferential shares, which will carry a high interest rate of 10 percent.

 

[oreo]

Obama, Frank and lefties almost turned me into part of the raging mob on this one. But a little perspective people.

AIG was bailed by the left to the tune of about $170 billion. AIG is reported to owe apprixmately $165 Million in contracutal bonuses. Now, Obama is really pulling the wool over people's eyes when he says he is outraged that AIG is spending tax payer money on bonuses. Anyone care to do the math on the above and tell us what percentage of the bailout money is being spent on bonuses?

The other laugher is the implied contention that the taxpayers should be outraged at AIG for this infintecimal expenditure of the bailout money. WRONG Mr. President. The taxpayers should be outraged at YOU. Because it was YOU that decided to spend taxpayer money on them in the first place. We all know the bailout was never popular with the taxpayers.

I have posted this before, but it bares repeating as this a striking example. Milton Friedman said from most to least effective, there are 3 ways to spend money.

Spend your money on you.
Spend other people's money on you.
Spend other people's money on other people.

The bailout is obviously the last. Bailing out these companies is the equivalent if giving an allowance to a kid that didn't do his chores. Doing so simply reinforces bad behavior. Considering AIG needed to be bailed out in the first place, why is everyone so stunned that they are being irresponsible with what is essentially an incentive package to continue irresponsible behavior?

The next is that now are President apparently wants to set a precedent that the government can null legal contracts. The bonuses are money that AIG gaurunteed to there employees. Most of us agree it may not be the wisest in hind sight, but the fact is it is money they have a legal obligation to pay.

YOU HAVE LOST YOUR MIND

the bush administration, secretary paulsen and the FED bailed Aig out...in sept and november of LAST YEAR bern???? do some reading....on it, i have posted several articles today... care

Yep--& they should not have done it either.

The point is that our government including Barack Obama knew last year about these contractual "retention" bonuses. They knew what the amount was going to be--& they also knew the pay-out date of these bonuses.

It was last October that Obama stated--that the party was OVER for Wall St. Well, apparently not. The American taxpayer now ownes 80% of AIG. This administration had every single opportunity to negotiate these retention bonuse's & they didn't.

We can't expect much from them as AIG was a huge campaign contibutor to our politicians cofers. Especially Criss Dodd who received more than $100,000 from AIG. I sure don't see him running to the treasury to give back that money.

They act surprised, shocked & outraged today--to pull the wool over their little following sheeps heads.