Responsibility VS freedom

[Mr.Fitnah]

Stolen Valor Act deemed unconstitutional

By Gary Harmon
Wednesday, August 18, 2010

U.S. Rep. John Salazar’s Stolen Valor Act, aimed at preventing people from fraudulently claiming to be war heroes, was declared unconstitutional Wednesday by an appellate panel in California.


Stolen Valor Act deemed unconstitutional | GJSentinel.com


I think we as a people have a responsibility to our veterans and ourselves hold on to some degree of virtue.
We owe the veterans to no dilute or bring doubt to their sacrifice so that some scumbag can leverage respect from theft.
So yeah go ahead say" Im willing to shred the constitution" limiting the freedom of thieves and scumbags.

Fuck you too.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

We have fallen so far away from simple virtues that greater freedoms are afforded to those who have no virtues, at the cost of those who have the greatest virtues and defend our freedom.

Disgusting.

 

[DiamondDave]

Another headshaker decision by our government

 

[hipeter924]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

We have fallen so far away from simple virtues that greater freedoms are afforded to those who have no virtues, at the cost of those who have the greatest virtues and defend our freedom.

Disgusting.

It was made for freedom of speech (of the don't shout fire in a crowded theater kind) and safety from dangerous people as well. I could understand allowing Muslims to live in US but I can't understand why the government never keeps an eye on what goes in every Mosque and arrests the radical preachers or at least sends them for psychological help. No one should be allowed to preach death to the Jews or death to America anywhere, least of all in the US because it is encouraging people to do such, to kill the Jews and kill American's and destroy the American state, as well as Israel.

 

[rikules]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

We have fallen so far away from simple virtues that greater freedoms are afforded to those who have no virtues, at the cost of those who have the greatest virtues and defend our freedom.

Disgusting.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

as an atheist I certainly take exception to THAT comment.

our constitution is for EVERYONE, even those of us who don't believe in gods or religions.

 

[hipeter924]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

We have fallen so far away from simple virtues that greater freedoms are afforded to those who have no virtues, at the cost of those who have the greatest virtues and defend our freedom.

Disgusting.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

as an atheist I certainly take exception to THAT comment.

our constitution is for EVERYONE, even those of us who don't believe in gods or religions.

You don't need to be religious to be moral, case closed.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

He is saying freedoms will be abused by those who cannot be self governed through some infrastructure, he calls that infrastructure moral and religious. You call it something else .
I think it is revolting that there is no way to stop people from the appropriation other peoples sacrifice for there own greed.

 

[Steerpike]

This is out of the 9th Circuit, right? They get overturned a lot.

I'm pretty sure the U.S. Supreme Court has said on more than one occasion that a knowingly-false statement doesn't have 1st Amendment protection. So if the Supreme Court grants cert., look to see this decision overturned.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Stolen Valor Act deemed unconstitutional

By Gary Harmon
Wednesday, August 18, 2010

U.S. Rep. John Salazar’s Stolen Valor Act, aimed at preventing people from fraudulently claiming to be war heroes, was declared unconstitutional Wednesday by an appellate panel in California.


Stolen Valor Act deemed unconstitutional | GJSentinel.com


I think we as a people have a responsibility to our veterans and ourselves hold on to some degree of virtue.
We owe the veterans to no dilute or bring doubt to their sacrifice so that some scumbag can leverage respect from theft.
So yeah go ahead say" Im willing to shred the constitution" limiting the freedom of thieves and scumbags.

Fuck you too.

Instead of being immature, try legal reasoning and argument.

I support the intent of the law, but will never support an unconstitutional law. Why? Because that is what vets supposedly fought for, the Constitution, not benefits.

At certain points most veterans have never fought an ant let alone an enemy, so cut the emotional argument. But all veterans do take an oath...

do you know what that oath says?

 

[Steerpike]

I support the intent of the law, but will never support an unconstitutional law. Why? Because that is what vets supposedly fought for, the Constitution, not benefits.

Assuming the law is unconstitutional, I would agree with you. But I'm not convinced that this one is.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams
...

Disgusting.

Alien and Sedition Act- John Adams

disgusting

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I support the intent of the law, but will never support an unconstitutional law. Why? Because that is what vets supposedly fought for, the Constitution, not benefits.

Assuming the law is unconstitutional, I would agree with you. But I'm not convinced that this one is.

Have to read the opinion.

When I get back from pt.


but off the bat attacking the court at every move, every time a decision is disliked, is what poisons the public debate

 

[rightwinger]

It is only common sense that this law would not make it very far.

People in all walks of life lie about their past and qualifications. People claim to be Doctors, lawyers, rock stars and athletes. Some lie about their war records.

Vets have exaggerated their war record ever since there have been wars. Do we want to throw them all in jail or just laugh at them when the truth comes out?

 

[Steerpike]

I support the intent of the law, but will never support an unconstitutional law. Why? Because that is what vets supposedly fought for, the Constitution, not benefits.

Assuming the law is unconstitutional, I would agree with you. But I'm not convinced that this one is.

Have to read the opinion.

When I get back from pt.


but off the bat attacking the court at every move, every time a decision is disliked, is what poisons the public debate

I'm not attacking the court.

But this court is subject to the U.S. Supreme Court, and I'm pretty sure there is U.S. case law that says a statement known to be false doesn't have 1st amendment protection. If that's true, then there is good reason to think the 9th circuit got this one wrong.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Assuming the law is unconstitutional, I would agree with you. But I'm not convinced that this one is.

Have to read the opinion.

When I get back from pt.


but off the bat attacking the court at every move, every time a decision is disliked, is what poisons the public debate

I'm not attacking the court.

But this court is subject to the U.S. Supreme Court, and I'm pretty sure there is U.S. case law that says a statement known to be false doesn't have 1st amendment protection. If that's true, then there is good reason to think the 9th circuit got this one wrong.

I'm sorry for not being clearer. I wasn't saying that 'you' have personally attacked the court.

Did the court say what you are saying? I will have to read what they've said.

---

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It is only common sense that this law would not make it very far.

People in all walks of life lie about their past and qualifications. People claim to be Doctors, lawyers, rock stars and athletes. Some lie about their war records.

Vets have exaggerated their war record ever since there have been wars. Do we want to throw them all in jail or just laugh at them when the truth comes out?

The news report alone makes troubling the statements of people like Fit-nerd.

First: It was a panel of the court, not the whole court.

U.S. Rep. John Salazar’s Stolen Valor Act...

(Salazar, a Democrat)

Xavier Alvarez pleaded guilty under the Stolen Valor Act on condition that he be allowed to appeal on First Amendment grounds.


In the California case, a 2-1 majority said there was no evidence that such lies harm anyone, and there is no compelling reason for the government to ban such lies.​

​

​

The dissenting justice said false statements of fact are not entitled to First Amendment protection. ​

​

second:
​

The decision was the second blow in the space of a month for the Stolen Valor Act. Last month, U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn Blackburn was a federal judge on the (United States District Court for the District of Colorado. Blackburn was nominated by President George W. Bush) in Denver declared the law unconstitutional.​

​

For a more coherent link: Stolen Valor Act Is Declared Unconstitutional by Circuit Court - At War Blog - NYTimes.com

For the government to limit freedom of speech, it would have to show a compelling need, the decision argued, and not just that a person was lying about military honors. But the majority concluded that the central intent of the law, to motivate and honor troops, could be accomplished without restricting speech.

 

[rightwinger]

It is only common sense that this law would not make it very far.

People in all walks of life lie about their past and qualifications. People claim to be Doctors, lawyers, rock stars and athletes. Some lie about their war records.

Vets have exaggerated their war record ever since there have been wars. Do we want to throw them all in jail or just laugh at them when the truth comes out?

The news report alone makes troubling the statements of people like Fit-nerd.

First: It was a panel of the court, not the whole court.

U.S. Rep. John Salazar’s Stolen Valor Act...

(Salazar, a Democrat)

Xavier Alvarez pleaded guilty under the Stolen Valor Act on condition that he be allowed to appeal on First Amendment grounds.


In the California case, a 2-1 majority said there was no evidence that such lies harm anyone, and there is no compelling reason for the government to ban such lies.​

​

​

The dissenting justice said false statements of fact are not entitled to First Amendment protection. ​

​

second:
​

The decision was the second blow in the space of a month for the Stolen Valor Act. Last month, U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn Blackburn was a federal judge on the (United States District Court for the District of Colorado. Blackburn was nominated by President George W. Bush) in Denver declared the law unconstitutional.​

​

For a more coherent link: Stolen Valor Act Is Declared Unconstitutional by Circuit Court - At War Blog - NYTimes.com

For the government to limit freedom of speech, it would have to show a compelling need, the decision argued, and not just that a person was lying about military honors. But the majority concluded that the central intent of the law, to motivate and honor troops, could be accomplished without restricting speech.

Good point..thanks

While it is despicable to claim you are a Purple Heart receipient or winner of a Bronze Star, there needs to be some damage. Isn't someone who falsely claims to be a Doctor or PhD just as sleazy?

How can we legislate lying?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It is only common sense that this law would not make it very far.

People in all walks of life lie about their past and qualifications. People claim to be Doctors, lawyers, rock stars and athletes. Some lie about their war records.

Vets have exaggerated their war record ever since there have been wars. Do we want to throw them all in jail or just laugh at them when the truth comes out?

The news report alone makes troubling the statements of people like Fit-nerd.

First: It was a panel of the court, not the whole court.

U.S. Rep. John Salazar’s Stolen Valor Act...

(Salazar, a Democrat)

Xavier Alvarez pleaded guilty under the Stolen Valor Act on condition that he be allowed to appeal on First Amendment grounds.


In the California case, a 2-1 majority said there was no evidence that such lies harm anyone, and there is no compelling reason for the government to ban such lies.​

​

The dissenting justice said false statements of fact are not entitled to First Amendment protection. ​

​

second:
​

The decision was the second blow in the space of a month for the Stolen Valor Act. Last month, U.S. District Judge Robert Blackburn Blackburn was a federal judge on the (United States District Court for the District of Colorado. Blackburn was nominated by President George W. Bush) in Denver declared the law unconstitutional.​

​

For a more coherent link: Stolen Valor Act Is Declared Unconstitutional by Circuit Court - At War Blog - NYTimes.com

For the government to limit freedom of speech, it would have to show a compelling need, the decision argued, and not just that a person was lying about military honors. But the majority concluded that the central intent of the law, to motivate and honor troops, could be accomplished without restricting speech.

Good point..thanks

While it is despicable to claim you are a Purple Heart receipient or winner of a Bronze Star, there needs to be some damage. Isn't someone who falsely claims to be a Doctor or PhD just as sleazy?

How can we legislate lying?

Lying is a mortal sin.


seriously though, Id say the public shame and maybe some community service for the a-holes in question is enough. If they personally benefited, restitution and jail time commensurate with the damage.

But the very idea that bad feelings, upset, outrage and anger need to be encoded in law is downright despicable.

 

[George Costanza]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

We have fallen so far away from simple virtues that greater freedoms are afforded to those who have no virtues, at the cost of those who have the greatest virtues and defend our freedom.

Disgusting.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

as an atheist I certainly take exception to THAT comment.

our constitution is for EVERYONE, even those of us who don't believe in gods or religions.

You don't need to be religious to be moral, case closed.

I don't want to start anything here, but I could not pass this one up . . .

Some of the most immoral people I have ever known were very, very religious folks who went to church every Sunday, quoted scripture, etc. Add in that millions and millions of people have been killed over the centuries for wars fought for religious reasons.

Your comment is very well taken. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[ReallyOrnery]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. :::John Adams

We have fallen so far away from simple virtues that greater freedoms are afforded to those who have no virtues, at the cost of those who have the greatest virtues and defend our freedom.

Disgusting.

It was made for freedom of speech (of the don't shout fire in a crowded theater kind) and safety from dangerous people as well. I could understand allowing Muslims to live in US but I can't understand why the government never keeps an eye on what goes in every Mosque and arrests the radical preachers or at least sends them for psychological help. No one should be allowed to preach death to the Jews or death to America anywhere, least of all in the US because it is encouraging people to do such, to kill the Jews and kill American's and destroy the American state, as well as Israel.

hipeter:

One has every right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater if the theater is on fire. The first ten amendments -- our Bill of Rights -- does not protect us from criminals, unless you consider politicians criminals, which I do. Screw Israel and its Jews. We have no duty or Constitutional obligation to protect any nation outside our borders. We should also go to every synagogue and arrest every rabbi who preaches hate against the Mohammedans and Christian Americans.

RO