Republicans: why do you ignore the wealth inequality issue?

[Foxfyre]

lets see, what's different.

The rich have no affect on my life beyond providing me with a job and benefits that go to care and feed my family.

The government takes some of that money and removes my Constitutional rights, over spends , making the money I keep worth less, thus making it harder for me to care and feed my family.




Like I said, we, unlike you, are not a bunch of whinny crybabies.

The trickle down is a myth. Corporations are making record profits and taxes are at record lows. Where are the jobs exactly?

China, India, and anywhere people are willing to work long hours under deplorable conditions for very little compensation.

Yes they are, but take away that very little compensation and they starve. And, because the government assigns what rights the people will have, most of those folks have little opportunity to improve their situations.

As opposed to the USA where we who were among the nation's poor and started out in debt with little or nothing of our own have almost unlimited opportunity to work ourselves into a comfortable living.

Those who despise the rich in this country are like the couple who killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. Take down those rich are artificailly make them less rich in comparison to others, and you absolutely kill the golden goose/engine that makes unlimited opportunity possibile in this country.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why should I be angry if someone else "earns" alot more money than I do?

Why on earth should I be angry at any of my brethren?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The trickle down is a myth. Corporations are making record profits and taxes are at record lows. Where are the jobs exactly?

China, India, and anywhere people are willing to work long hours under deplorable conditions for very little compensation.

Yes they are, but take away that very little compensation and they starve. And, because the government assigns what rights the people will have, most of those folks have little opportunity to improve their situations.

As opposed to the USA where we who were among the nation's poor and started out in debt with little or nothing of our own have almost unlimited opportunity to work ourselves into a comfortable living.

Those who despise the rich in this country are like the couple who killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. Takle down those rich are artificailly make them less rich in comparison to others, and you absolutely kill the golden goose/engine that makes unlimited opportunity possibile in this country.

If you want a unique look that breaks away from the "cheap labor" issue into why U.S. companies do manufacturing in China, one should do a little reading on Steve Jobs and the i-Phone and in particular, what happened when he mandated the "scratch free" glass.

It isn't just about cheap labor...

 

[g5000]

The facts should anger you.

You say any person deserves to keep every cent they make. That would be fine, except that most of the people in the top 5% are not EARNING all of the money that they are MAKING.

Why ignore the evidence?

Wealth And Inequality In America

You know, I have pointed out several times in the past several weeks the biggest driver behind "income inequality". I don't know if it was to you and you keep ignoring it, or if this is some kind of widespread ignorance, but I will point it out again.

You see, I am very active in the stock market. I watch it every minute of every trading day. So when you and others post charts of the variations in the top one percent's wealth, I recognize the pattern on those charts immediately.

Just lay your top one percent chart over a chart of the Dow Jones Industrial Average for the same period.

Voilà!

Go to the link in your OP which I have conveniently left in this post. Look at the first slide. See that giant spike in the 1927 timeframe? Notice the giant plunge not long after that? Does that kind of ring a bell anywhere in your head?

Now go to slide 3 in the link in your OP.

Who owns half of all stocks, bonds, and mutual funds?

That's right! The top one percent!

So their wealth is tied to the stocks and bond markets more than it is tied to the tax rate.

In fact, one could make a very persuasive argument that as tax rates increase beyond a certain point, the stock market goes into a stall.


There is most certainly a problem with wealth being concentrated in the hands of a few. I absolutely agree, as would Thomas Jefferson. He warned very specifically about this very thing.

However, the answer is not "tax the rich", my friend. That may alleviate the situation a little, but it would be an unjust solution. That punishes the guilty and the innocent alike.

This "they didn't earn it" stuff is bullshit. It reeks of jealousy.

No. The problem is that there are far too many loopholes in the tax structure. The problem is there has been much too much loosening of financial regulations. The problem is that legislation has been enacted, and other legislation has not been enforced, which results in the playing field being tilted way too far to the advantage of those who already have wealth. This, in turn, has resulted in economic mobility being nearly crushed to death. Opportunity is nearly dead.

There is no single magic bullet which will fix this.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Why should I be angry if someone else "earns" alot more money than I do?

Why on earth should I be angry at any of my brethren?

Being angry all the time is an unfortunate side-effect of being liberal, or maybe being liberal is a side-effect of being angry all the time?

I dunno, but if you got one, you probably have the other!

 

[Valox]

But the rank and file poor in China have little chance to become rich there.

There is absolutely no limit and there are no barriers in the USA for those who stay out of legal troubles, get a real education, acquire marketable skills, are willing to put in their time in McJobs to acquire a work ethic, references, and marketable skills, and who are earning a living wage and get married before having kids.

Comparing the US to China is not an adequate comparison. While there is still plenty of room in the United States to pull yourself ahead, the US leads the developed nations in socio-economic mobility. Alan Krueger just gave a nice speech about this and has confirmed what other studies have confirmed.

http://www.americanprogress.org/events/2012/01/pdf/krueger.pdf

 

[kwc57]

The facts should anger you.

You say any person deserves to keep every cent they make. That would be fine, except that most of the people in the top 5% are not EARNING all of the money that they are MAKING.

Why ignore the evidence?

Wealth And Inequality In America

Productivity and profits are up, yet wages for the middle class haven't changed over the last few decades unlike the 1%

I don't think that I should make more money simply because of the top 5%. I just the think the wealthy should pay a fair tax that would go to benefit programs for lower level workers. In doing so, their hardwork can be fulfilled.

Why do you keep asking questions you've already been schooled in at least 100 times?

Wages haven't changed for the middle class over the last few decades? I'll call bullshit on that one. I've been working full time since 1980, 32 years. I make 7 times what I did in 1980. My pay has steadily increased over time. Perhaps if you'd apply yourself instead of living in a tent in a city park and "working" at carrying a 99% sign around, you'd make more money too.

For your anecdote to carry water, you would have had to work the same job over those 3 decades which I assume is untrue. In addition, a personal anecdote is not proof that a general trend is not occurring.

In general, wages have been lagging substantially behind productivity gains, even when you include benefits. If wages/benefits are not keeping up with productivity, then who is cashing in on the gains?

U.S. productivity grew by 62.5% from 1989 to 2010, far more than real hourly wages for both private-sector and state/local government workers, which grew 12% in the same period. Real hourly compensation grew a bit more (20.5% for state/local workers and 17.9% for private-sector workers) but still lagged far behind productivity growth.

The typical worker has had stagnating wages for a long time, despite enjoying some wage growth during the economic recovery of the late 1990s. While productivity grew 80% between 1979 and 2009, the hourly wage of the median worker grew by only 10.1%, with all of this wage growth occurring from 1996 to 2002, reflecting the strong economic recovery of the late 1990s.

The sad but true story of wages in America | Economic Policy Institute


Here is another study from the BLS.

Growth of productivity and real hourly compensation in the nonfarm business sector (which accounts for three-fourths of output and employment in the total U.S. economy) was robust until 1973, at which time growth slowed in both measures. During the 1947–73 period, the annual change in productivity averaged 2.8 percent, while real hourly compensation growth averaged 2.6 percent. Over the 1973–79 period, the averages were 1.1 and 0.9 percent, respectively.

Real hourly compensation is the hourly cost to businesses, adjusted for price changes, of wages, salaries, and benefits paid to workers. Real hourly compensation grew at an average annual rate of 1.7 percent over the 63-year period. Since the 1970s, real hourly compensation has grown more slowly than productivity

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2011/01/art3full.pdf

In one form or fashion, I HAVE been doing the same work for the past 30 years. It's called a career rather than a job. Look, life is about choices and some people do a shitty job when it comes to making choices at jobs. You may be the best damned buggy whip maker in t he factory, but when those newfangled horseless carriages came around, you might want to learn how to turn a wrench. Better yet, you might want to start your own company and become one of those dirty capitalist bastards who did so to make a personal profit who offers jobs as a side benefit when he is successful. Me, I wasn't interested in the 24/7 days and dealing with government regulations a business owner has to do, so I decided to work for them instead. I chose a good field, did a good job and make a very comfortable living. If I can do it, so can anyone else. That's my personal anecdote based on 30 years of real life experience. I can tell you this, if I lost my job and there was no more work availalbe in my field, I'd be finding out what jobs are hot and where they are at and do something about it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Listening to Progressives discuss economics is like listening to Helen Keller discuss Impressionism

 

[g5000]

I am very wary of people who talk about legislation to make things "fair".

I'm all for fair play and equal opportunity, but I don't trust the government to tell me what is "fair".

No sireee bob.

 

[kwc57]

Republicans ignore it as we feel that you need to earn it. Most of the poor are lazy and don't wish to pound the floor to advance them selfs.

Poor-think it should be handed to you=no wealth. You think life is a joke.
Rich-work hard and plan=more wealth!

Why should the people that work hard and are smart enough to save up give you their money?

You guys do realize that becoming wealthy is like climbing the inside of a pyramid, right? The closer you get to the top, the less room there is.

I completely disagree that most of the poor are lazy. There are many more working poor than there are the "welfare bums" that you Conservatives love to rail on about.

Oh for Pete's sake! I'm going to give you a homework assignment that even you can do......possibly in your head without actually having to do it physically. Go to your local pie shop. Look at the pie sitting on the counter. Count how many pieces of pie there are. Wait until all the pieces of pie are sold. Tell us what happens next. Do they hang a closed sign on the door or do they make another pie and set on the counter. You liberals have to quit thinking that wealth is a finite thing that has to be divided infinitely. Wealth is created. Just go ask people who came up with an idea and developed it to create enormous wealth from products that people never dreamed would be available a couple of years ago. Do you thing Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are the last of a dying breed? Do you think they stole their wealth from some other wealthy person? There will be other Jobs and Gates without them losing a single penny of their wealth.

 

[The T]

The trickle down is a myth. Corporations are making record profits and taxes are at record lows. Where are the jobs exactly?

China, India, and anywhere people are willing to work long hours under deplorable conditions for very little compensation.

Yes they are, but take away that very little compensation and they starve. And, because the government assigns what rights the people will have, most of those folks have little opportunity to improve their situations.

As opposed to the USA where we who were among the nation's poor and started out in debt with little or nothing of our own have almost unlimited opportunity to work ourselves into a comfortable living.

Those who despise the rich in this country are like the couple who killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. Take down those rich are artificailly make them less rich in comparison to others, and you absolutely kill the golden goose/engine that makes unlimited opportunity possibile in this country.

Indeed. The President, the Statists in Congres have squeezed the 'golden goose' to the point that all it produces is feces.

 

[g5000]

The trickle down is a myth. Corporations are making record profits and taxes are at record lows. Where are the jobs exactly?

The jobs are in Silicon Valley. And Texas. And Wall Street. And in little hidden hi-tech complexes scattered all over the country.

So...do you want to hear the rest of the answer, or is your mind made up?

The answer is a long and complicated one, but I will keep it as short as possible.

First, manufacturing is a process of evolution. If you don't evolve, you die out. So we can keep making textiles and lava lamps and toys and electronic circuit boards and TVs and radios, at the cost of losing our technological edge. Trying to hold onto age-old jobs through protectionism will kill us off in very short order.

We must evolve. We must anticipate the jobs of tomorrow and train our future workers for the jobs of tomorrow. We must keep our math and science edge in the classroom. The days of going to work in your father's factory are over! Evolution has sped up.

If we do not train for tomorrow today, we will never catch up. We are in grave danger of this very thing. Everyone is always looking for the quick and easy solution. But no amount of tax breaks for business will change this fact of life. No amount of legislative incentive to create jobs will work, either.

The investment in education which will reap advantage tomorrow cannot be realized overnight. Our country needs to get the fuck out of this "fix it now!" mindset.


The second factor is simpler to grasp.

It takes less people to make the same amount of stuff it took just a couple decades ago. So while we still make the most stuff in the world, make as much stuff as we used to, we don't need as many people to make it.

Industrial factories are experiencing what farming experienced a century ago. I don't have the exact numbers at my fingertips, but when the Great Depression hit, about one third of Americans were farmers. Now, it takes something like three percent of Americans to feed us all.

So give up this ridiculous idea that factories are the answer to our employment problems. It is time to evolve, or die.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The trickle down is a myth. Corporations are making record profits and taxes are at record lows. Where are the jobs exactly?

The jobs are in Silicon Valley. And Texas. And Wall Street. And in little hidden hi-tech complexes scattered all over the country.

So...do you want to hear the rest of the answer, or is your mind made up?

The answer is a long and complicated one, but I will keep it as short as possible.

First, manufacturing is a process of evolution. If you don't evolve, you die out. So we can keep making textiles and lava lamps and toys and electronic circuit boards and TVs and radios, at the cost of losing our technological edge. Trying to hold onto age-old jobs through protectionism will kill us off in very short order.

We must evolve. We must anticipate the jobs of tomorrow and train our future workers for the jobs of tomorrow. We must keep our math and science edge in the classroom. The days of going to work in your father's factory are over! Evolution has sped up.

If we do not train for tomorrow today, we will never catch up. We are in grave danger of this very thing. Everyone is always looking for the quick and easy solution. But no amount of tax breaks for business will change this fact of life. No amount of legislative incentive to create jobs will work, either.

The investment in education which will reap advantage tomorrow cannot be realized overnight. Our country needs to get the fuck out of this "fix it now!" mindset.


The second factor is simpler to grasp.

It takes less people to make the same amount of stuff it took just a couple decades ago. So while we still make the most stuff in the world, make as much stuff as we used to, we don't need as many people to make it.

Industrial factories are experiencing what farming experienced a century ago. I don't have the exact numbers at my fingertips, but when the Great Depression hit, about one third of Americans were farmers. Now, it takes something like three percent of Americans to feed us all.

So give up this ridiculous idea that factories are the answer to our employment problems. It is time to evolve, or die.

Not to mention we produce more now than EVER. Forget it, you're arguing with a Marxist... he won't be happy until we're all donning Mao jackets and toiling in a rice field.

 

[The T]

The trickle down is a myth. Corporations are making record profits and taxes are at record lows. Where are the jobs exactly?

The jobs are in Silicon Valley. And Texas. And Wall Street. And in little hidden hi-tech complexes scattered all over the country.

So...do you want to hear the rest of the answer, or is your mind made up?

The answer is a long and complicated one, but I will keep it as short as possible.

First, manufacturing is a process of evolution. If you don't evolve, you die out. So we can keep making textiles and lava lamps and toys and electronic circuit boards and TVs and radios, at the cost of losing our technological edge. Trying to hold onto age-old jobs through protectionism will kill us off in very short order.

We must evolve. We must anticipate the jobs of tomorrow and train our future workers for the jobs of tomorrow. We must keep our math and science edge in the classroom. The days of going to work in your father's factory are over! Evolution has sped up.

If we do not train for tomorrow today, we will never catch up. We are in grave danger of this very thing. Everyone is always looking for the quick and easy solution. But no amount of tax breaks for business will change this fact of life. No amount of legislative incentive to create jobs will work, either.

The investment in education which will reap advantage tomorrow cannot be realized overnight. Our country needs to get the fuck out of this "fix it now!" mindset.


The second factor is simpler to grasp.

It takes less people to make the same amount of stuff it took just a couple decades ago. So while we still make the most stuff in the world, make as much stuff as we used to, we don't need as many people to make it.

Industrial factories are experiencing what farming experienced a century ago. I don't have the exact numbers at my fingertips, but when the Great Depression hit, about one third of Americans were farmers. Now, it takes something like three percent of Americans to feed us all.

So give up this ridiculous idea that factories are the answer to our employment problems. It is time to evolve, or die.

Not to mention we produce more now than EVER. Forget it, you're arguing with a Marxist... he won't be happy until we're all donning Mao jackets and toiling in a rice field.

...with himself on the horse with the whip overseeing...

 

[Big Black Dog]

Me? Ignore the wealth inequality issue? ROFLMAO.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The jobs are in Silicon Valley. And Texas. And Wall Street. And in little hidden hi-tech complexes scattered all over the country.

So...do you want to hear the rest of the answer, or is your mind made up?

The answer is a long and complicated one, but I will keep it as short as possible.

First, manufacturing is a process of evolution. If you don't evolve, you die out. So we can keep making textiles and lava lamps and toys and electronic circuit boards and TVs and radios, at the cost of losing our technological edge. Trying to hold onto age-old jobs through protectionism will kill us off in very short order.

We must evolve. We must anticipate the jobs of tomorrow and train our future workers for the jobs of tomorrow. We must keep our math and science edge in the classroom. The days of going to work in your father's factory are over! Evolution has sped up.

If we do not train for tomorrow today, we will never catch up. We are in grave danger of this very thing. Everyone is always looking for the quick and easy solution. But no amount of tax breaks for business will change this fact of life. No amount of legislative incentive to create jobs will work, either.

The investment in education which will reap advantage tomorrow cannot be realized overnight. Our country needs to get the fuck out of this "fix it now!" mindset.


The second factor is simpler to grasp.

It takes less people to make the same amount of stuff it took just a couple decades ago. So while we still make the most stuff in the world, make as much stuff as we used to, we don't need as many people to make it.

Industrial factories are experiencing what farming experienced a century ago. I don't have the exact numbers at my fingertips, but when the Great Depression hit, about one third of Americans were farmers. Now, it takes something like three percent of Americans to feed us all.

So give up this ridiculous idea that factories are the answer to our employment problems. It is time to evolve, or die.

Not to mention we produce more now than EVER. Forget it, you're arguing with a Marxist... he won't be happy until we're all donning Mao jackets and toiling in a rice field.

...with himself on the horse with the whip overseeing...

Why, but of course!

 

[JoeB131]

Traitor- someone not acting in the best interest of my country.

Romney and other off-shorers are traitors.

Simple enough.

Yes, they are AMERICAN jobs. The problem is we put the greed of corporations above the interests of our citizens. There are all sorts of ways you can make life miserable for the off-shoring traitors, and most other countries- including China - do exactly that. Tariffs, quality inspections, quality standards.

We can have clean water, but we shouldn't make our factories compete with people who've killed everything in the Yansgtze River... That's a part of the problem. We want to have our cake and eat it, too.

So, you're making up your own definitions of words now too? No wonder your posts are such a clusterfuck of bullshit.

FYI: Section 3 of the US Constitution (you have heard of that document, right?)

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Moron.

Again, for the stupid kid at the back: The only 'American jobs' are those funded by US taxpayers. No other jobs belongs to Americans. That's a simple fact.... you don't like that fact... un-fucking-lucky.

YOu move jobs over to countries tha ain't our friends, you know ones that murder their own citizens to harvest their organs for transplants... I'd call that giving them aid and comfort.

Shit, talk to Jonathan Pollard. That joker's still in jail for giving our secrets to the Zionists. (I think they are our friends, but it's hard to tell.)

The problem is we don't treat our manufacturing like we treat plans to the B-2, intelligence we have on Iraq we promised to share with Israel and didn't, or a bald eagle egg. If we did, some of these guys would think twice.

And as long as companies demand government services, they should be required to hire Americans. Simple enough for me. You show me a business that doesn't need roads, police protection, etc. It's a fair exchange, and we need to start demanding better....

 

[JoeB131]

Wealth is not a zero sum game. I can be wealthy (actually I am wealthy) and YOU can be wealthy. Want to help the poor? Get rich. Lead by example. Want to get rich? Commit as much time to being wealthy as you do to: complaining, watching television, drinking alcohol, surfing the internet, being envious of others, and screwing off.

Bullshit.

No one is doing 80 million dollars of work.

No one.

They are manipulating the system so they get the rewards. The physical work they do is nowhere near what they get paid.

Do I think the CEO should get paid more than I do? Sure. No problem. Do I think that we should have a system where they make 8 figures, even if they run the company into the ground and require a government bailout? NOPE!!!!!

And this is the problem with Romney, and why he's toxic. He and his boys did exactly that with these companies, and left lenders, stockholder, workers and the government on the hook.

 

[Billy000]

The facts should anger you.

You say any person deserves to keep every cent they make. That would be fine, except that most of the people in the top 5% are not EARNING all of the money that they are MAKING.

Why ignore the evidence?

Wealth And Inequality In America

Productivity and profits are up, yet wages for the middle class haven't changed over the last few decades unlike the 1%

I don't think that I should make more money simply because of the top 5%. I just the think the wealthy should pay a fair tax that would go to benefit programs for lower level workers. In doing so, their hardwork can be fulfilled.

This seems to be a recurring theme, but is almost always short on specifics. How much tax is "fair"? And how will those additional funds be used to provide "benefit programs for lower level workers"? Despite your assertion that the rich aren't paying enough, the federal government spends every bit as much or more on "benefit programs", and yet according to you, the middle class still can't make it. What specific additional benefit programs would provide the needed push to get these poor and lower level workers to where you would like them to be? And how would those additional dollars do more good in government's hands than being invested in private sector capital?

I'm also curious to know the difference between "earning" and "making". If a doctor spends the entire decade of his 20's working hard in college, medical school and interning, then works 60-70 hour weeks throughout his 30's and 40's, should he then feel guilty that he has some money invested in financial assets and is doing well? Isn't that part of the reason he applied himself in the first place? Should his kids feel badly that he was able to pass some of it to them as well?

It is difficult to consider your post to be a serious call for action when it is long on blame and short on solutions.

I am not an economist, so I do not know what a fair tax would be. However, I do believe the question can answered mathematically given the disparity of wealth. A rate can be determined based upon the gap between the top 1% and everybody else. Also, these "additional funds" would not likely go to benefit the poor if they were invested in private capital.

You seem to think I am against success altogether. That's where this black and white thinkinging comes in. I am not wanting to punish success. I think doctors should be well-paid for what they do. Anyone at the top 1%, however, need to at least pay their fair share if they are going to have this monopoly.

 

[The T]

Wealth is not a zero sum game. I can be wealthy (actually I am wealthy) and YOU can be wealthy. Want to help the poor? Get rich. Lead by example. Want to get rich? Commit as much time to being wealthy as you do to: complaining, watching television, drinking alcohol, surfing the internet, being envious of others, and screwing off.

Bullshit.

No one is doing 80 million dollars of work.

No one.

They are manipulating the system so they get the rewards. The physical work they do is nowhere near what they get paid.

Do I think the CEO should get paid more than I do? Sure. No problem. Do I think that we should have a system where they make 8 figures, even if they run the company into the ground and require a government bailout? NOPE!!!!!

And this is the problem with Romney, and why he's toxic. He and his boys did exactly that with these companies, and left lenders, stockholder, workers and the government on the hook.

Union Thug/Wealth Envier/God Denier speaks...