Republican’s VS. Democrat’s Health Care Plan

[Fraulein Hilda]

That said, anything that gets passed will surely be better than what exists now.

How do you know? All you have are promises from a street organizer that has accomplished nothing.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

As to rationing health care?

That's ALREADY being done now by the private insurers.

Except, you are free to buy any health care you want now.

A government rationed system does not let you do that.

 

[Oddball]

That said, anything that gets passed will surely be better than what exists now.

Huh...WHA??

We need to do something...This is something, therefore we must do it???

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[MaggieMae]

The French system rations healthcare. So does Canada's. So does Great Britain's.

The problem with libs is they point to these systems as gold standards, but when you corner them about rationing, they say, well, we won't have a system like... They want it both ways.

A politician who has no qualms about canning 200,000 employees of auto dealers will have no qualms about closing clinics and hospitals he does not think are necessary.

Americans can buy as much health care as they want, and it's none of the goddamned government's business how much they should have.

France, Canada and even Mexico's public health care programs have a greater emphasis on PREVENTIVE care. Remove the millions of people who don't see a doctor because they have no insurance and no cash to pay for emergency visits and who ultimately become more seriously ill because of it, and you wil have a far less expensive government health care program. That's not "rationing." That's common sense.

It's also a far stretch to compare this problem with that of the auto industry. Why should auto dealership employees sit around picking their noses when people aren't buying new cars? There will ALWAYS be a demand for health care.

 

[dilloduck]

The French system rations healthcare. So does Canada's. So does Great Britain's.

The problem with libs is they point to these systems as gold standards, but when you corner them about rationing, they say, well, we won't have a system like... They want it both ways.

A politician who has no qualms about canning 200,000 employees of auto dealers will have no qualms about closing clinics and hospitals he does not think are necessary.

Americans can buy as much health care as they want, and it's none of the goddamned government's business how much they should have.

France, Canada and even Mexico's public health care programs have a greater emphasis on PREVENTIVE care. Remove the millions of people who don't see a doctor because they have no insurance and no cash to pay for emergency visits and who ultimately become more seriously ill because of it, and you wil have a far less expensive government health care program. That's not "rationing." That's common sense.

It's also a far stretch to compare this problem with that of the auto industry. Why should auto dealership employees sit around picking their noses when people aren't buying new cars? There will ALWAYS be a demand for health care.

Preventive care. Is that making sure people excercise, develop good hygiene habits and eat healthy ? Good luck with that

 

[driveby]

The French system rations healthcare. So does Canada's. So does Great Britain's.

The problem with libs is they point to these systems as gold standards, but when you corner them about rationing, they say, well, we won't have a system like... They want it both ways.

A politician who has no qualms about canning 200,000 employees of auto dealers will have no qualms about closing clinics and hospitals he does not think are necessary.

Americans can buy as much health care as they want, and it's none of the goddamned government's business how much they should have.

France, Canada and even Mexico's public health care programs have a greater emphasis on PREVENTIVE care. Remove the millions of people who don't see a doctor because they have no insurance and no cash to pay for emergency visits and who ultimately become more seriously ill because of it, and you wil have a far less expensive government health care program. That's not "rationing." That's common sense.

It's also a far stretch to compare this problem with that of the auto industry. Why should auto dealership employees sit around picking their noses when people aren't buying new cars? There will ALWAYS be a demand for health care.

France , Canada and Mexico have better healthcare than the USA ? That's why i come here, for a good laugh, thanks ! .......

 

[auditor0007]

As to rationing health care?

That's ALREADY being done now by the private insurers.

Except, you are free to buy any health care you want now.

A government rationed system does not let you do that.

Some people can buy any healthcare they want.

 

[MaggieMae]

The French system rations healthcare. So does Canada's. So does Great Britain's.

The problem with libs is they point to these systems as gold standards, but when you corner them about rationing, they say, well, we won't have a system like... They want it both ways.

A politician who has no qualms about canning 200,000 employees of auto dealers will have no qualms about closing clinics and hospitals he does not think are necessary.

Americans can buy as much health care as they want, and it's none of the goddamned government's business how much they should have.

Nice scare tactic. Hospitals are already being closed because of govt mandate. The govt ALREADY pays most of the bills because of medicare/medicaid.

What "mandates"?? That hospitals must treat the sick and injured in their emergency rooms? Do you have a link showing that hospitals are closing due to mandates or simply because some have declared bankruptcy because of all the free care they must dole out? And even when a hospital DOES close, the medical staff will never be wanting for work elsewhere. It remains at the top of the employment opportunities list.

The whole crux of both health care proposals is to get those who fall through the cracks at least the insurance to help with soaring medical costs. There is a huge segment of society that do not meet the income guidelines to qualify for Medicaid, or are not old enough yet to qualify for Medicare.

 

[dilloduck]

The whole crux of both health care proposals is to get those who fall through the cracks at least the insurance to help with soaring medical costs.

You really mean jsut pay other peoples health expenses don't you ? We already are doing that.

 

[MaggieMae]

The French system rations healthcare. So does Canada's. So does Great Britain's.

The problem with libs is they point to these systems as gold standards, but when you corner them about rationing, they say, well, we won't have a system like... They want it both ways.

A politician who has no qualms about canning 200,000 employees of auto dealers will have no qualms about closing clinics and hospitals he does not think are necessary.

Americans can buy as much health care as they want, and it's none of the goddamned government's business how much they should have.

Nice scare tactic. Hospitals are already being closed because of govt mandate. The govt ALREADY pays most of the bills because of medicare/medicaid.

So you're saying government will only accellerate those closings. Then it's not a scare tactic. You proved my point.

Medicare and Medicaid shift costs to private and third party payers. Government will force providers to accept lower reimbursement with no means of recovering that elsewhere.

Many will quit.

Quit? And go where? WalMart?

 

[Oddball]

France, Canada and even Mexico's public health care programs have a greater emphasis on PREVENTIVE care. Remove the millions of people who don't see a doctor because they have no insurance and no cash to pay for emergency visits and who ultimately become more seriously ill because of it, and you wil have a far less expensive government health care program. That's not "rationing." That's common sense.

"Preventative care" is simply a cynical code phrase for putting gubmint in charge of everything all the time.

Find even the most strained link between Twinkies and one type of cancer or another?....Ban them!!

Buying into the trans-fat hype?....Ban them!!

Think people are too fat?...Appoint a "Fitness Csar" and use the power of bureaucracy to turn doctors into snitches for the state.

Of course, we all know how well this "preventative care" worked for guys like Jimmy Fixx...Don't we?

 

[MaggieMae]

Of course, but your point was equally ridiculous. People shouldn't have to move because they want their voice to be heard in government. That's why we live in a democracy.

We live in a republic, not a democracy, pudinhead.

And we're not the ones pining for the benevolent socialist patronage of the places that our ancestors left.....You are.

So, rather than trying to make everyone else go along with your program, it behooves you to GTFO, since the grass is so green over there.

Well I hope whoever's got your medical expenses covered pays for anger management. And btw, we live in a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Nice scare tactic. Hospitals are already being closed because of govt mandate. The govt ALREADY pays most of the bills because of medicare/medicaid.

So you're saying government will only accellerate those closings. Then it's not a scare tactic. You proved my point.

Medicare and Medicaid shift costs to private and third party payers. Government will force providers to accept lower reimbursement with no means of recovering that elsewhere.

Many will quit.

Quit? And go where? WalMart?

Get out altogether. Retire early. Be forced out by government decisions closing "unnecessary" facilities.

 

[driveby]

We live in a republic, not a democracy, pudinhead.

And we're not the ones pining for the benevolent socialist patronage of the places that our ancestors left.....You are.

So, rather than trying to make everyone else go along with your program, it behooves you to GTFO, since the grass is so green over there.

Well I hope whoever's got your medical expenses covered pays for anger management.

If not, he could go to wonderful places like France or Mexico and get it for FREE ! ....

 

[Oddball]

Well I hope whoever's got your medical expenses covered pays for anger management. And btw, we live in a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

Oh, puuullleeeease!! ...Save your amateurish mind reading exercises for someone else.

And, BTW, nowhere in Article 4, Section 4 can be found the word "democratic".

Try again......No.....Don't.

 

[MaggieMae]

( In Two Parts )

First what the Democrats are considering – It's still a work in progress; here’s what I know about it

Democrats want to expand the role of the Federal Government in the health insurance industry, and as a start they will probably tax small employers who don’t provide health insurance to their employees. Then they would use those revenues to subsidize the un-insured.

Like the Republicans they will also have to go after the $300 billion employer tax subsidy, meaning the 'equivalence-to-wages' of the presently non-taxed employer provided health insurance benefit. Max Baucus, Senate Finance Chairman himself has acknowledged the need to do that, saying, it makes him feel like Willy Sutton because he recognizes “that is where the money is.” Using some part of that recaptured tax expenditure, they would create a government subsidized health insurance plan.

Once there’s government (subsidized) insurance, the private insurance companies will disappear from the scene and we will be left with a “single payer” system, which probably everyone would agree is their real goal. Therefore they seem to be planning on doing that by vastly expanding federal regulations of health insurance and, for now, staying with the present job-related system, partly concentrating on employers to get this done.

Because many employers are too small, employing too few people, using employer provided insurance will never accomplish what needs to be done.

The Democrats are estimating costs for their plan at $1.5 trillion OR MORE over 10-years. Since their plan, unlike the Republican plan does nothing to encourage competition, that estimate will no doubt be on the low side.

Honestly, there is no competition within the health insurance industry, unless you are healthy. There are so many problems that are not addressed by the insurance industry, and the bottom line is that they are in business to make money, not to provide people with decent healthcare.

After my insurance company assured me that when I moved from one state to another, I would be given a similar policy as the one I had in Colorado at a similar price, they are now saying I have to go through underwriting which means I am being denied coverage.

Because I have a pre-existing condition, I checked this out thoroughly with my insurer along with several agents. Now they are trying to fuck me and tell me that even if they accept me, my rates will go from $350 to $1500 per month with a high deductible. On top of that, they are doubling the rate for my kids based on my genetic disorder, even though my kids are not likely to have it.

Because I am self-employed, I have private insurance. Now the only way to get insurance will be to go to work for a company that provides insurance. I was responsible and had coverage, but now because I became sick due to a genetic disorder, I am being hung out to dry.

As far as I'm concerned, the insurance companies can all go fuck themselves and the government can take over, because that's the only way I will be covered at least for the next nineteen years.

I agree that people should be responsible and pay for insurance if they want coverage. However, the insurance companies do whatever they can to not cover those who become sick through no fault of their own. Basically, it's a scam.

So please, tell me again how great the insurance companies are and how wonderful it is to have all these choices, because I get zero choices even though I had coverage.

So please tell me again how our system is the greatest in the world.

Your unfortunate experience is indicative of yet another failure by the private sector (insurers) to do what they promise, thereby almost inviting government control. I hope "Dude" gets to see your story.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

As to rationing health care?

That's ALREADY being done now by the private insurers.

Except, you are free to buy any health care you want now.

A government rationed system does not let you do that.

Some people can buy any healthcare they want.

It does not make sense to fuck up the best system in the world just to insure a few million uninsured. Drag everyone else down. Give everyone the same coverage.

 

[MaggieMae]

That said, anything that gets passed will surely be better than what exists now.

How do you know? All you have are promises from a street organizer that has accomplished nothing.

The thread is about BOTH parties' proposals. I don't have time to address your stupid spin on the subject.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

( In Two Parts )

First what the Democrats are considering – It's still a work in progress; here’s what I know about it

Democrats want to expand the role of the Federal Government in the health insurance industry, and as a start they will probably tax small employers who don’t provide health insurance to their employees. Then they would use those revenues to subsidize the un-insured.

Like the Republicans they will also have to go after the $300 billion employer tax subsidy, meaning the 'equivalence-to-wages' of the presently non-taxed employer provided health insurance benefit. Max Baucus, Senate Finance Chairman himself has acknowledged the need to do that, saying, it makes him feel like Willy Sutton because he recognizes “that is where the money is.” Using some part of that recaptured tax expenditure, they would create a government subsidized health insurance plan.

Once there’s government (subsidized) insurance, the private insurance companies will disappear from the scene and we will be left with a “single payer” system, which probably everyone would agree is their real goal. Therefore they seem to be planning on doing that by vastly expanding federal regulations of health insurance and, for now, staying with the present job-related system, partly concentrating on employers to get this done.

Because many employers are too small, employing too few people, using employer provided insurance will never accomplish what needs to be done.

The Democrats are estimating costs for their plan at $1.5 trillion OR MORE over 10-years. Since their plan, unlike the Republican plan does nothing to encourage competition, that estimate will no doubt be on the low side.

Honestly, there is no competition within the health insurance industry, unless you are healthy. There are so many problems that are not addressed by the insurance industry, and the bottom line is that they are in business to make money, not to provide people with decent healthcare.

After my insurance company assured me that when I moved from one state to another, I would be given a similar policy as the one I had in Colorado at a similar price, they are now saying I have to go through underwriting which means I am being denied coverage.

Because I have a pre-existing condition, I checked this out thoroughly with my insurer along with several agents. Now they are trying to fuck me and tell me that even if they accept me, my rates will go from $350 to $1500 per month with a high deductible. On top of that, they are doubling the rate for my kids based on my genetic disorder, even though my kids are not likely to have it.

Because I am self-employed, I have private insurance. Now the only way to get insurance will be to go to work for a company that provides insurance. I was responsible and had coverage, but now because I became sick due to a genetic disorder, I am being hung out to dry.

As far as I'm concerned, the insurance companies can all go fuck themselves and the government can take over, because that's the only way I will be covered at least for the next nineteen years.

I agree that people should be responsible and pay for insurance if they want coverage. However, the insurance companies do whatever they can to not cover those who become sick through no fault of their own. Basically, it's a scam.

So please, tell me again how great the insurance companies are and how wonderful it is to have all these choices, because I get zero choices even though I had coverage.

So please tell me again how our system is the greatest in the world.

Your unfortunate experience is indicative of yet another failure by the private sector (insurers) to do what they promise, thereby almost inviting government control. I hope "Dude" gets to see your story.

Only an idiot would view government control as an improvement.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

That said, anything that gets passed will surely be better than what exists now.

How do you know? All you have are promises from a street organizer that has accomplished nothing.

The thread is about BOTH parties' proposals. I don't have time to address your stupid spin on the subject.

It's not spin. Get your head out fo the sand Yu should make time, because that's all the Democrats can do. Promise.