Republicans Create Rider To Stop Net Neutrality

[daveman]

In a thorough search to back that claim, I am going to have to adjust my wording on that. I have been reading about all this and it was my assumption. Truth is, Obama realized he wouldnt be able to pass it without paying for it, and since the Republicans supported the individual mandate through past years of health care reform litigation, he most likely figured it would be the only way he could get the bill through.

So, Im going to have to wipe the egg off my face on this one, but I still say that the republicans are being disengenuous by trying to use this part of the bill as political weight, since they have supported it in the past.

I would remind you not to confuse "Republican" and "conservative". The two are not synonymous.

Republicans may have supported the individual mandate. Conservatives never have.

Now that I can see where you are coming from, I can see previous posts of yours in a new light. Yes, those labels definitely distort things, do they not? In most instances, my use of conservative instead of Republican was my small way of trying to NOT further inflame debate.

But you are indeed correct, as I guess a lot of my own views are conservative, yet I am in no way Republican...Plus the fact that I am fast discovering that this board is not really here for debate, it seems to be here largely so that people can curse one another.

I have had an experiment going. I started posting on the board some time back and tried to be civil in discourse, and was largely ignored. In the past couple of days I have started to call people names and use "uncivil" discourse, and my time here has been a bit more exciting.

I really think I will prolly just move on out and see if there is a place out there where there is some decent debate going on without all the goofyness I see going on around here.

Good luck with that.

 

[daveman]

In a thorough search to back that claim, I am going to have to adjust my wording on that. I have been reading about all this and it was my assumption. Truth is, Obama realized he wouldnt be able to pass it without paying for it, and since the Republicans supported the individual mandate through past years of health care reform litigation, he most likely figured it would be the only way he could get the bill through.

So, Im going to have to wipe the egg off my face on this one, but I still say that the republicans are being disengenuous by trying to use this part of the bill as political weight, since they have supported it in the past.

I would remind you not to confuse "Republican" and "conservative". The two are not synonymous.

Republicans may have supported the individual mandate. Conservatives never have.

Come on now, don't you ever get tired of making up this kind of pure CRAP!!!

You can't get any more Right wing extremist whacko CON$ervative than the Heritage Foundation!!!

Using Tax Credits to Create an Affordable Health System | The Heritage Foundation

The second central element-in the Heritage proposal is a two-way commitment between government and citizen. Under this social contract, the federal government would agree to make it financially possible, through refundable tax benefits or in some cases by providing access to public-sector health programs, for every American family to purchase at least a basic package of medical care, including catastrophic insurance. In return, government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family. Thus there would be mandated coverage under the Heritage proposal, but the mandate would apply to the family head, who is the appropriate person to shoulder the primary responsibility for the family's health needs, rather than employers, who are not.

That's not a conservative position.

 

[RDD_1210]

And this is bad because...

Really? You don't see a problem with a couple of corporations controlling all access to information?

Really? Wow.

OK, how about this:

What if the media source that ends up controlling all access to information is GE ?

Don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent answer from him.

 

[daveman]

Liberalism...ideas so good, they have to be mandated by law!

like all those ideas that had to be put in the constitution?

There's a major difference:

The ideas in the Constitution limit the powers of government to maximize individual freedom.

The left's ideas seek to limit individual freedoms to maximize the power of government.

 

[daveman]

The American Republican stance pretty much says the same thing. Republicans seem to want to be in control of everything that goes on in this country, and that free will be destroyed. If a Republican thinks anything I do to be "immoral" or any other thing they dont agree with, they want to make a law against it.

Conservatives want maximum individual freedom and minimal government interference.

Not really. The American Democratic stance is that no one is capable of making their own decisions, and must have Big Government looking out for them from cradle to grave. For instance, the government decided that YOU have to buy insurance, regardless of your health or economic circumstances.

I submit to you, that if either of the "leftist" or "rightwing" theories in this country are to lead us to be closer to China, it would be the Republicans.

Thanks for playing

Your submission is rejected. China is a Communist nation. Therefore, it is leftist. This is inarguable.

Looks Capitalist to me.

I guess that means you're even further to the left than Commies.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Just read a Goebbels speech. It's the exact same rhetoric.

Beck: The communists are destroying the country
Goebbels: The communists are destroying the country

Beck: They're funded by the Master Jew, the Puppetmaster George Soros, who owns all the media except Fox News
Goebbels: they're funded by the Jews, who pull the strings of the media

Beck:'violence is coming'
Goebbels:brought the violence

Beck:we must stop the mexican invasion and the loss of real America
Goebbels: we must stop the Auslanders from destorying Germany and the German people

Beck: they poor keep having kids because Progressives pay them to; we must stop encouraging them to reproduce
Goebbels: the lower tenth keeps reproducing and eating away at society; we must end programs that reward them and prevent them from having more children

Beck: I'm the only one you can trust in the media- the rest is owned by the Jewish Puppetmaster Soros
Goebbels: we're the only media that can be allowed- the rest is owned by the Jews


It's happened here before...

Beck: We must stop the communist progressives' war against the rich
Goebbels: [the Nazis sided with Mussolini]

They tried it in America before (see: The Business Plot)

Uh. Beck is a private citizen - not a member of the government. I would have thought comparing Hitler's Minister of Propaganda to Beck was beneath you, but considering your rapid decline, it appears to be perfectly consistent with what you substitute for intellectual integrity.

Wasn't Goebbels a private citizen before becoming part of the system?

Also... isn't Beck a public figure embedded in the media?

Wow, that was a convincing argument.

After completing his doctorate in 1921, Goebbels worked as a journalist and tried for several years to become a published author. He wrote a semi-autobiographical novel, Michael, two-verse plays, and quantities of romantic poetry. In these works, he revealed the psychological damage his physical limitations had caused. "The very name of the hero, Michael, to whom he gave many autobiographical features, suggests the way his self-identification was pointing: a figure of light, radiant, tall, unconquerable," and above all "'To be a soldier! To stand sentinel! One ought always to be a soldier,' wrote Michael-Goebbels."[8] Goebbels found another form of compensation in the pursuit of women, a lifelong compulsion he indulged "with extraordinary vigor and a surprising degree of success."[9] His diaries reveal a long succession of affairs, before and after his marriage before a Protestant pastor in 1931 to Magda Quandt, with whom he had six children.[10]
Goebbels was embittered by the frustration of his literary career; his novel did not find a publisher until 1929 and his plays were never staged. He found an outlet for his desire to write in his diaries, which he began in 1923 and continued for the rest of his life.[11] He later worked as a bank clerk and a caller on the stock exchange.[12] During this period, he read avidly and formed his political views. Major influences were Friedrich Nietzsche, Oswald Spengler and, most importantly, Houston Stewart Chamberlain, the British-born German writer who was one of the founders of "scientific" anti-Semitism, and whose book The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century (1899) was one of the standard works of the extreme right in Germany. Goebbels spent the winter of 1919–20 in Munich, where he witnessed and admired the violent nationalist reaction against the attempted communist revolution in Bavaria. His first political hero was Anton Graf von Arco auf Valley, the man who assassinated the Bavarian prime minister Kurt Eisner.[9] Hitler was in Munich at the same time and entered politics as a result of similar experiences.
The culture of the German extreme right was violent and anti-intellectual, which posed a challenge to the physically frail University graduate. Joachim Fest writes:

This was the source of his hatred of the intellect, which was a form of self-hatred, his longing to degrade himself, to submerge himself in the ranks of the masses, which ran curiously parallel with his ambition and his tormenting need to distinguish himself. He was incessantly tortured by the fear of being regarded as a ‘bourgeois intellectual’… It always seemed as if he were offering blind devotion (to Nazism) to make up for his lack of all those characteristics of the racial elite which nature had denied him.[13]
​

Joseph Goebbels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you really think that Beck is a frustrated author, is physically unable to join the Army, or is afraid to be considered an intellectual?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And this is bad because...

Really? You don't see a problem with a couple of corporations controlling all access to information?

Really? Wow.

OK, how about this:

What if the media source that ends up controlling all access to information is GE ?

It is impossible to control all access to information, ask China, the USSR, Iran, and North Korea if you don't believe me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Uh. Beck is a private citizen - not a member of the government. I would have thought comparing Hitler's Minister of Propaganda to Beck was beneath you, but considering your rapid decline, it appears to be perfectly consistent with what you substitute for intellectual integrity.

FoxNews has just about openly admitted that they are the media arm of the Republican party.

AKA, "the Ministry of Propaganda".

MSNBC is the same on the left side of the fence.

Just because they're not officially a member of the government doesn't mean they don't serve the politicians who make up the government, or control them for that matter.

When did they admit that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

let me know when they start building concentration camps

It took a long time, a world war, and a whole lot of propaganda to get to the point where there were concentration camps. I'm relatively sure that no-one in Germany knew how that particular scenario would turn out before the Nazis took power.

But that doesn't matter...

... because, your hyperbole aside, I'm not saying that the Tea Party, or far-left Progressives for that matter, are anything like the Nazis, because they aren't, but there are certainly comparisons that can be drawn between purveyors of radical propaganda.

I think you should go back and study history again. WWII started in 1939, Dachau was built in 1933, just a few months after Hitler was appointed Chancellor. Maybe I am confused here, but that does not sound like it took a long time, a world war, or even a whole lot of propaganda.

Draw all the correlations you want, but if you don't even have the facts your correlations are going to be pretty weak.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And this is bad because...

Really? You don't see a problem with a couple of corporations controlling all access to information?

Really? Wow.

OK, how about this:

What if the media source that ends up controlling all access to information is GE ?

Don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent answer from him.

Still pouting? You should get over it, people will forget faster.

 

[RDD_1210]

Really? You don't see a problem with a couple of corporations controlling all access to information?

Really? Wow.

OK, how about this:

What if the media source that ends up controlling all access to information is GE ?

Don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent answer from him.

Still pouting? You should get over it, people will forget faster.

Just like I said.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent answer from him.

Still pouting? You should get over it, people will forget faster.

Just like I said.

That I wouldn't give an intelligent answer? I already did, even though he didn't answer me intelligently.

 

[edthecynic]

I would remind you not to confuse "Republican" and "conservative". The two are not synonymous.

Republicans may have supported the individual mandate. Conservatives never have.

Come on now, don't you ever get tired of making up this kind of pure CRAP!!!

You can't get any more Right wing extremist whacko CON$ervative than the Heritage Foundation!!!

Using Tax Credits to Create an Affordable Health System | The Heritage Foundation

The second central element-in the Heritage proposal is a two-way commitment between government and citizen. Under this social contract, the federal government would agree to make it financially possible, through refundable tax benefits or in some cases by providing access to public-sector health programs, for every American family to purchase at least a basic package of medical care, including catastrophic insurance. In return, government would require, by law every head of household to acquire at least a basic health plan for his or her family. Thus there would be mandated coverage under the Heritage proposal, but the mandate would apply to the family head, who is the appropriate person to shoulder the primary responsibility for the family's health needs, rather than employers, who are not.

That's not a conservative position.

Of course it is, it just depends on what day of the week it is. CON$ have no principles, they are for AND against same thing, whichever suits their purposes at the MOMENT!!! Mandated coverage is just another example.

 

[edthecynic]

 

[JBeukema]

there is NO, ZERO, ZIPO, comparison between Beck and Goebbels

Actually, that's not true at all. There are many comparisons to make between the two, just as there are many comparisons to make between Olbermann and Goebbels.

I don't recall Goebbels attacking a young woman for telling kids not to make his mistakes

 

[JBeukema]

Do you really think that Beck is a frustrated author, is physically unable to join the Army, or is afraid to be considered an intellectual?

Beck hates intellectuals because it's a codeword for liberal progressive communists in academia.

He is an author and an alcoholic who's more likely to be refused admission into the forces for being mental.

 

[JBeukema]

let me know when they start building concentration camps

It took a long time, a world war, and a whole lot of propaganda to get to the point where there were concentration camps. I'm relatively sure that no-one in Germany knew how that particular scenario would turn out before the Nazis took power.

But that doesn't matter...

... because, your hyperbole aside, I'm not saying that the Tea Party, or far-left Progressives for that matter, are anything like the Nazis, because they aren't, but there are certainly comparisons that can be drawn between purveyors of radical propaganda.

I think you should go back and study history again. WWII started in 1939, Dachau was built in 1933, just a few months after Hitler was appointed Chancellor. Maybe I am confused here, but that does not sound like it took a long time, a world war, or even a whole lot of propaganda.

Draw all the correlations you want, but if you don't even have the facts your correlations are going to be pretty weak.

I think he was referring to WWI

 

[DiveCon]

It took a long time, a world war, and a whole lot of propaganda to get to the point where there were concentration camps. I'm relatively sure that no-one in Germany knew how that particular scenario would turn out before the Nazis took power.

But that doesn't matter...

... because, your hyperbole aside, I'm not saying that the Tea Party, or far-left Progressives for that matter, are anything like the Nazis, because they aren't, but there are certainly comparisons that can be drawn between purveyors of radical propaganda.

I think you should go back and study history again. WWII started in 1939, Dachau was built in 1933, just a few months after Hitler was appointed Chancellor. Maybe I am confused here, but that does not sound like it took a long time, a world war, or even a whole lot of propaganda.

Draw all the correlations you want, but if you don't even have the facts your correlations are going to be pretty weak.

I think he was referring to WWI

the NAZI didnt take power till well after WWI

 

[JBeukema]

I think you should go back and study history again. WWII started in 1939, Dachau was built in 1933, just a few months after Hitler was appointed Chancellor. Maybe I am confused here, but that does not sound like it took a long time, a world war, or even a whole lot of propaganda.

Draw all the correlations you want, but if you don't even have the facts your correlations are going to be pretty weak.

I think he was referring to WWI

the NAZI didnt take power till well after WWI

Methinks he was referring to the greater sociopolitical trends leading up to the extermination camps.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Darwin-Hitler-Evolutionary-Eugenics-Germany/dp/1403965021]Amazon.com: From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany (9781403965028): Richard Weikart: Books[/ame]

 

[Londoner]

Net Neutrality sought to prevent the monopolization of information by a small segment of the population. Without it, only corporate-friendly messages will survive. The ability to protest corrupt wars or shine a light on derivative crimes will now disappear. Any message that runs contrary to the interests of weapons manufacturers, or Wall Street, or health insurance monopolies will never see the light of day. Only paid-for propaganda will survive.

Democracy requires MAXIMUM access to information. By defeating Net Neutrality, Republicans have once again concentrated power in the hands of big business. They don't get it: concentrated corporate power is concentrated government power. They are killing democracy. We want MAXIMUM competition when it comes to information. We want more not less information. We don't want to live in a world where only a small group of citizens have the resources to promote their ideas.

Republicans, by destroying competition on the internet -- by narrowing our information choices -- are turning us into a parody of the old Soviet Union. God help us.