Republican party may have died today.

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Says who?

George W. Bush? The same guy told us that Saddam Hussine had WMD's in his sock drawer?!?

Did you believe him then? Should you believe him now?

That is up to you of course...

Personally? I don't believe him.

-Joe

THANK YOU!

Our economy will not stop functioning, this will only force people to live within their means for a period of time. Doesn't sound so bad to me.

 

[Skull Pilot]

My buddy at work said, "I think your side voted it down", so i looked and 33% of dems voted against it and 66% of GOP voted it down.

They wanted us to pass this bill without the majority of them signing it so we would take all the blame. Sorry, we aren't letting them play us like that.

Either more Republicans sign on or fuck off.

OK So you libbies are only for doing what you think is right if the blame for when it goes wrong can be deflected? That's courage and leadership we can believe in eh?

If what you were saying were correct, I might agree with you. The problem is that credit is now frozen. Companies like Caterpiller already cannot get lenders to meet their short term needs, including payroll. So long as this isn't fixed, they anticipate a loss of !00,000 jobs per month into the new year.

I'd say that warrants interference in the free market.

Credit is the problem but it can be addressed without such a huge price tag. The prblem here is that we have no idea what these "bad" mortgage securities are worth so how can we come up with a price?

The FDIC can help here. If we raise the insured limit to several million and exact a fee from banks of say some fraction of a percent, big corps, will be able to deposit large sums of cash in the bank rather than buying t bills. This would give a much needed cash infusion to the banking system and go a long way to unclogging the credit markets. And the banks and corps pay for it not us.

financial meltdown is looming. 700 billion sounds like alot but we lost 1.2 trillion today.
this is going to hit main street hard and it wont be long before the yahoos are howling why congress did nothing.

Actually we didn't "lose " anything. If you don't sell for a loss, you don't realize a loss. I assume the "we" you are referring to are the American taxpayers. And "we' haven't lost anything because those equities seeing a decline in value are privately owned. At least for now. If we socialize the banking system, then "we" will see a loss.

 

[plt42]

You do realize that our economy will stop functioning without it right? it amazes me that anyone would be so stupid as to not grasp the situation at hand.

you act as if you'll be on the hook exclusively for the 700 billion... this will be a shared burden.

I agree. The task at hand is to stabilize the market, not only for the American public but to hold on to our position as a major player in world economy. There's not another viable option.

Either candidate stands to inherit the worst financial disaster in our history. It's unlike any other and there's really no past experience to draw upon. This begs the question... who do you want to inherit it... a follower of the administration that holds most responsibility for creating it or.........???

 

[AllieBaba]

Lefties should be dancing in the streets. They've been waiting for this and predicting it for the last 25 years.

Finally! Something's going their way!

 

[mightypeon]

Personally, it seems that I am in agreement with 60% of the Republican and some 30% of the democratic party. Never thought of me being two times more republican than democrat by the way.

The bailout is just another bailout like the ones used in earlier situations. Since this situations are repeating, inspite of issueing bailouts in the past, it seems that, if this bailout would be issued, it would be no means be the last (nor the biggest). On a sidenote: How many jobs do you think you are going to loose? I mean, 700 billions could create a fairly big amount of Jobs too.
Is throwing money into the banking system really the best way to create or save jobs?
Do we really get the most "jobs for the buck" this way?

I am not convinced.

Cheers,

Mightypeon

 

[Red Dawn]

If we go into a depression now then the republican party will suffer horribly. i dont like this bail out but alot of people are being hurt as the market tanks. bush and the rep leadership failed to deliver the votes today.

How come everytime Wall Street melts down, its a republican president at the helm who promoted deregulation and getting government out of the way? 1929, 1987, 2008.

I'd say its a pattern by now.

 

[JennyFever]

You Repubs need to drop the bit about the irony of Dems voting with Bush. Haven't you realized that he is essentially admitting that the economic policy he has followed for the last 7 years doesn't work. Dems are putting personal feelings toward Bush aside and acting in the best interest of the country, though it is unpopular.

I also can't believe you guys are acting like this bill was sunk out of some sort of noble principle. Haven't you heard Boehner and McCain blaming this on Nancy Pelosi's speech? Admitting that votes were cast out of spite? That doesn't sound like putting "COUNTRY FIRST" to me!

 

[elvis]

When the American people who are so against this bailout start losing their jobs and stop being able to purchase things because their credit drys up they will blame BUSH and the Republican party Allie...

Bush and Paulson did a shit job explaining to the people WHY this bailout was necessary.... They think it's just more bad moeny being thrown away but in truth its an unfortunate reality to keep the economy from completely grinding to a halt.

the market dropped AGAIN after the bill failed to pass. All the American people will care about is that it's the fault of the Repubs for it's failure.

They went in saying that 60% of Dems would support it and 60% of Repubs would support it so that neither party took the full hit by the people for what they see as a bad idea. Republicans cared more about how they appear to their voters instead of just doing what is best for the country right now.

Bush has never been able to explain anything clearly.

 

[Mauser]

the blame is clearly on the republican party.

Is the Republican party also to "blame" for the 90+ Democrats who didn't vote for the legislation?

The truth is that killing the legislation was very much a bi-partisan effort, and one supported by the overwhelming majority of Americans.

 

[AshamedAmerican]

Fuck them. Bail out nobody. Let it crash and burn, and the world crash and burn with it, and start from the ashes.

It's been a long time coming. We'll still be head and shoulders above the rest.

I'm with him ^^^

I am sure that we need the bail out.

But what bothers me is that not one single law has been discussed that would keep it from happening again.

If we gave them the 700 million. The Wall Street bankers could turn around and do the exact same thing again.

Thats BILLION not million.
And thats exactly why we shouldnt bail them out to begin with, they WILL do it again as soon as the smoke clears and they get a chance.

If you don't think that at least a few people at the top planned this your fuggin'

 

[Elyk88]

I'm with him ^^^



Thats BILLION not million.
And thats exactly why we shouldnt bail them out to begin with, they WILL do it again as soon as the smoke clears and they get a chance.

If you don't think that at least a few people at the top planned this your fuggin'

as the bill stands right now I see us going through the same crap in 10 years.

enough with the quick fix band-aid for the economy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You Repubs need to drop the bit about the irony of Dems voting with Bush. Haven't you realized that he is essentially admitting that the economic policy he has followed for the last 7 years doesn't work. Dems are putting personal feelings toward Bush aside and acting in the best interest of the country, though it is unpopular.

I also can't believe you guys are acting like this bill was sunk out of some sort of noble principle. Haven't you heard Boehner and McCain blaming this on Nancy Pelosi's speech? Admitting that votes were cast out of spite? That doesn't sound like putting "COUNTRY FIRST" to me!

This situation was in the making for a lot more than 7 years.

What about the 90 some dems that voted no? Is Pelosi so ineffectual that she couldn't get the balance of votes needed to pass the bill from her own party?

Pelosi had it in her head that there had to be an equal number of dems and reps. voting for this bill because that way the dems would be shielded from any fallout and blame would be equally spread among both parties. That sound more like the dems being cowardly to me.

 

[editec]

Good for that 66% of the Republicans.

Good for that 33% of the Dems.

This "solution" is a TERRIBLE plan.

Christ folks, if the Republicans hold out long enough, and if by doing so we devise a plan which helps the people fromt he BOTTOM UP, I'll become a Republican!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Good for that 66% of the Republicans.

Good for that 33% of the Dems.

This "solution" is a TERRIBLE plan.

Christ folks, if the Republicans hold out long enough, and if by doing so we devise a plan which helps the people fromt he BOTTOM UP, I'll become a Republican!

Ditto!

 

[jillian]

OK So you libbies are only for doing what you think is right if the blame for when it goes wrong can be deflected? That's courage and leadership we can believe in eh?

Stop it. They made a deal that each group would get 50% of their membership. The extreme right bailed because they know their seats are already in jeopardy. As for dems, they aren't going to let you guys campaign against them on a bill that was asked for by the repub administration and signed onto by McCain. You can like that or not, but that's reality. The repubs needed 10 MORE VOTES... if you can't get 10 more votes, you need a new minority leader.

Credit is the problem but it can be addressed without such a huge price tag. The prblem here is that we have no idea what these "bad" mortgage securities are worth so how can we come up with a price?

You raise a good point, but that's why the bill provided for the money being given incrementally, with oversight in between phases.

Ultimately, you can't allow this to happen to world markets. It's stupid. It's petty... particularly with some idiot saying he chooses "freedom over bread"... bunch of pontificating BS.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Stop it. They made a deal that each group would get 50% of their membership. The extreme right bailed because they know their seats are already in jeopardy. As for dems, they aren't going to let you guys campaign against them on a bill that was asked for by the repub administration and signed onto by McCain. You can like that or not, but that's reality. The repubs needed 10 MORE VOTES... if you can't get 10 more votes, you need a new minority leader.

Ah, but if the dems stepped up, they could campaign that JM doesn't even have enough clout in his own party to get a mere 10 republican votes. If he can't do that, how effective can he be as POTUS hmmm?

You raise a good point, but that's why the bill provided for the money being given incrementally, with oversight in between phases.

Ultimately, you can't allow this to happen to world markets. It's stupid. It's petty... particularly with some idiot saying he chooses "freedom over bread"... bunch of pontificating BS.

There are other ways to remedy the problem besides raping the tax payers. but in the rush to judgment here, we are not considering anything but this ill conceived plan.

 

[mdjgirl7]

If we go into a depression now then the republican party will suffer horribly. i dont like this bail out but alot of people are being hurt as the market tanks. bush and the rep leadership failed to deliver the votes today.

Really here ya go.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8]YouTube - Dear Mr. Obama[/ame]

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

No. It's up to us to be responsible and not throw our hands up in the air and see what happens.

Again, my son is 10, I'm not really interested in toughing it out... particularly when I worked hard and did everything you're supposed to do to make sure that you don't have to.

Mostly, I'm not a gambler. And I know for a fact that the "free market" is a bunch of BS because there's no such thing. And, finally, I know that the loss of 1 million jobs would pretty much screw us.

I think this is going to depend very heavily on which million jobs we are talking about.

I know that no one really wants to hear about the "alien" factor, and it has not been discussed but it ha a great bearing on what is happening and will be happening.

First, jobs. There are how many million "service jobs" in this country that could be filled by citizens and legal residents. These are jobs in fast foods, and in cleaning, and in all those little minimum wage areas that are mostly minimum wage. They can be filled by students, starting with those high school types who are saving for college and for prom, and for a new pair of Girbaud pants and a jacket or that coveted "SkullCandy" backpack.

Students, from HS to college are job sharers: it takes a little creativity on the part of management to schedule ten instead of four, to cover the hours, but it can be done.

Field work? well, if there are jobs, they will be filled or "the market" will make some adjustments: like legally applying for ag visas to cover and THAT has the advantage of actually respecting the workers who perform these necessary operations.

On this housing thing: One part of the run up of the housing bubble was about lending to the no SS # bunch, and sales to family groups of illegals who live nose to butt in over-priced housing, and there is no way in hell the traditional "us" family of parents and kids can compete with pooled income from a group of ten of fifteen who play the odds that no more than half will get deported at any one time. Ten/fifteen times minimum wage beats the hell out of two regular "professional" salaries, and yes it does, yes it is happening all the time! Just to have the housing, any sub-standard shanty can be sold, I know, I have watched it happen.

Then there is the remittence issue:
Money Sent Back To Mexico Set To Surpass Oil Revenue This Year : Diggers Realm

This is just ONE county in ONE state! :
SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Mexico -- S.D. County remittances to Mexico hit $1.1 billion

Anyone can call it "anti" anything, but the lesson in all of this is that the US as a country has lost sight of the point that if we do not take care of our own, we are in factual effect cutting our own throats. Why should we starve in order that others feast?

Some things just need to be regulated.

Now, on to the banks.

There was a time when a bank had a monthly fee, checks had to be bought, etc. There is no free ride. All that "free" is costing someone. I used to bank at WAMU! They outsource to the Philipines and to India where there are very lax or have no laws about certain areas that affect identity theft issues. WAMU itself had a situation where an "outsdource" employee was selling personal stats at $5.00 a head. Did you realize how little you are worth?

Some things the market can decide, and some it cannot, and so it must be regulated. Trust in some of the little less consequential things, stringent rules when it can take us all down....

As for the bailout.... I remember the late seventies and all of the eighties. We survived those interest rates. We will survive this.

 

[Alpha1]

If we go into a depression now then the republican party will suffer horribly. i dont like this bail out but alot of people are being hurt as the market tanks. bush and the rep leadership failed to deliver the votes today.

and of course the 95 Dims that voted against the bail don't get any blame at all for the bill not passing...

How about the entire 12 member Barney Frank Banking Committee...not one of them voted for the bill....and of course they don't get blamed either...

only the R's get the blame.....

Its fucking amazing....

 

[Elyk88]

If I had voted against the bill I would want ALL the blame..or should I say..

All the credit.