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Why is being a robot the only option? God could have given us free will without the bad things as choices. He didnāt, why?So why did god let this be a fallen world if that's now how he wants it?As an Athiest/Agnostic; these are the most poignant verses of the Bible that have positively effected my life. Philosophically speaking...Matthew 10:34 - 39
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
I get the feeling that youāre completely misunderstanding what heās saying. The reality is, this is a fallen world, filled with people in rebellion to God. When someone chooses to follow Jesus and becomes a true Christian, they are inevitably going to face some contempt, division, and conflict with people around them. Sometimes even with their own family members. I can attest that thatās true, because when I became a Christian, it changed my relationships with several of my family members. It put me in conflict with my dad, who was an atheist, and my mom who is Catholic.
Itās not that Jesus wants us to be at war with our friends and familyā¦ In fact the Bible says just the opposite in numerous places. But heās talking about the reality that will inevitably happen, because when a person chooses to follow God, it puts them āin a battleā so to speak, with the people around them who either think theyāve gone off the deep end, or now feel like they are not on the same team.
Jesus, because of who he is, is divisive. He said āI am the Way, the truth, and the lifeā¦ No one comes to the father except through me.ā That is a very controversial and divisive statement. So those things I mentioned, and more, are why he said that he didnāt come to bring peace. He DID come to bring peace between people and God. But peace between people and other people is a different matter, even though God does want us to try to be at peace with everyone, as much as possible.
āIf it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.ā
Romans 12:18
The world changed when mankind chose to do things his own way. The Bible says sin brings death. Cause and effect. But as I said on the other thread, God gave us free will because the alternative would be a world of puppets or robots, with no freedom or ability to choose their own actions. Not only would that have been immoral, but it would have been pointless. God wants us to love him and come to him on our own volition, because we choose toā¦not because we are puppets on a string with no choice. Would you have preferred to be a puppet with no freedom?
If something is against god's will, why did god make it?Why is being a robot the only option? God could have given us free will without the bad things as choices. He didnāt, why?So why did god let this be a fallen world if that's now how he wants it?As an Athiest/Agnostic; these are the most poignant verses of the Bible that have positively effected my life. Philosophically speaking...
I get the feeling that youāre completely misunderstanding what heās saying. The reality is, this is a fallen world, filled with people in rebellion to God. When someone chooses to follow Jesus and becomes a true Christian, they are inevitably going to face some contempt, division, and conflict with people around them. Sometimes even with their own family members. I can attest that thatās true, because when I became a Christian, it changed my relationships with several of my family members. It put me in conflict with my dad, who was an atheist, and my mom who is Catholic.
Itās not that Jesus wants us to be at war with our friends and familyā¦ In fact the Bible says just the opposite in numerous places. But heās talking about the reality that will inevitably happen, because when a person chooses to follow God, it puts them āin a battleā so to speak, with the people around them who either think theyāve gone off the deep end, or now feel like they are not on the same team.
Jesus, because of who he is, is divisive. He said āI am the Way, the truth, and the lifeā¦ No one comes to the father except through me.ā That is a very controversial and divisive statement. So those things I mentioned, and more, are why he said that he didnāt come to bring peace. He DID come to bring peace between people and God. But peace between people and other people is a different matter, even though God does want us to try to be at peace with everyone, as much as possible.
āIf it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.ā
Romans 12:18
The world changed when mankind chose to do things his own way. The Bible says sin brings death. Cause and effect. But as I said on the other thread, God gave us free will because the alternative would be a world of puppets or robots, with no freedom or ability to choose their own actions. Not only would that have been immoral, but it would have been pointless. God wants us to love him and come to him on our own volition, because we choose toā¦not because we are puppets on a string with no choice. Would you have preferred to be a puppet with no freedom?
Think about it. In this world you have things that are in harmony with Godās will, and things that go against Godās will. Tell me, how can you have a world where people have freedom to make all kinds of choices but no possibility of going against Godās will?
If something is against god's will, why did god make it?Why is being a robot the only option? God could have given us free will without the bad things as choices. He didnāt, why?So why did god let this be a fallen world if that's now how he wants it?I get the feeling that youāre completely misunderstanding what heās saying. The reality is, this is a fallen world, filled with people in rebellion to God. When someone chooses to follow Jesus and becomes a true Christian, they are inevitably going to face some contempt, division, and conflict with people around them. Sometimes even with their own family members. I can attest that thatās true, because when I became a Christian, it changed my relationships with several of my family members. It put me in conflict with my dad, who was an atheist, and my mom who is Catholic.
Itās not that Jesus wants us to be at war with our friends and familyā¦ In fact the Bible says just the opposite in numerous places. But heās talking about the reality that will inevitably happen, because when a person chooses to follow God, it puts them āin a battleā so to speak, with the people around them who either think theyāve gone off the deep end, or now feel like they are not on the same team.
Jesus, because of who he is, is divisive. He said āI am the Way, the truth, and the lifeā¦ No one comes to the father except through me.ā That is a very controversial and divisive statement. So those things I mentioned, and more, are why he said that he didnāt come to bring peace. He DID come to bring peace between people and God. But peace between people and other people is a different matter, even though God does want us to try to be at peace with everyone, as much as possible.
āIf it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.ā
Romans 12:18
The world changed when mankind chose to do things his own way. The Bible says sin brings death. Cause and effect. But as I said on the other thread, God gave us free will because the alternative would be a world of puppets or robots, with no freedom or ability to choose their own actions. Not only would that have been immoral, but it would have been pointless. God wants us to love him and come to him on our own volition, because we choose toā¦not because we are puppets on a string with no choice. Would you have preferred to be a puppet with no freedom?
Think about it. In this world you have things that are in harmony with Godās will, and things that go against Godās will. Tell me, how can you have a world where people have freedom to make all kinds of choices but no possibility of going against Godās will?
If god wasn't such a tight ass, he wouldn't have a whole list of things that he made that he doesn't want us to do.
But for someone to take an action, that action had to have been invented by god. So why would god make actions that are bad? Why not just have nothing but good choices?If something is against god's will, why did god make it?Why is being a robot the only option? God could have given us free will without the bad things as choices. He didnāt, why?So why did god let this be a fallen world if that's now how he wants it?
The world changed when mankind chose to do things his own way. The Bible says sin brings death. Cause and effect. But as I said on the other thread, God gave us free will because the alternative would be a world of puppets or robots, with no freedom or ability to choose their own actions. Not only would that have been immoral, but it would have been pointless. God wants us to love him and come to him on our own volition, because we choose toā¦not because we are puppets on a string with no choice. Would you have preferred to be a puppet with no freedom?
Think about it. In this world you have things that are in harmony with Godās will, and things that go against Godās will. Tell me, how can you have a world where people have freedom to make all kinds of choices but no possibility of going against Godās will?
If god wasn't such a tight ass, he wouldn't have a whole list of things that he made that he doesn't want us to do.
I was talking about peoples actions. God doesnāt āmakeā peoples actions.
As for the second thing you said, you really do sound like youāre about 14 years old. Obviously there are going to be certain things that people shouldnāt do to each other, like murder, theft, etc. If you have a problem with that, take it up with God. But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦ which just goes to show your hypocrisy and/or foolishness.
But for someone to take an action, that action had to have been invented by god. So why would god make actions that are bad? Why not just have nothing but good choices?If something is against god's will, why did god make it?Why is being a robot the only option? God could have given us free will without the bad things as choices. He didnāt, why?The world changed when mankind chose to do things his own way. The Bible says sin brings death. Cause and effect. But as I said on the other thread, God gave us free will because the alternative would be a world of puppets or robots, with no freedom or ability to choose their own actions. Not only would that have been immoral, but it would have been pointless. God wants us to love him and come to him on our own volition, because we choose toā¦not because we are puppets on a string with no choice. Would you have preferred to be a puppet with no freedom?
Think about it. In this world you have things that are in harmony with Godās will, and things that go against Godās will. Tell me, how can you have a world where people have freedom to make all kinds of choices but no possibility of going against Godās will?
If god wasn't such a tight ass, he wouldn't have a whole list of things that he made that he doesn't want us to do.
I was talking about peoples actions. God doesnāt āmakeā peoples actions.
As for the second thing you said, you really do sound like youāre about 14 years old. Obviously there are going to be certain things that people shouldnāt do to each other, like murder, theft, etc. If you have a problem with that, take it up with God. But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦ which just goes to show your hypocrisy and/or foolishness.
Sure, but how does that apply here?But for someone to take an action, that action had to have been invented by god. So why would god make actions that are bad? Why not just have nothing but good choices?If something is against god's will, why did god make it?Why is being a robot the only option? God could have given us free will without the bad things as choices. He didnāt, why?
Think about it. In this world you have things that are in harmony with Godās will, and things that go against Godās will. Tell me, how can you have a world where people have freedom to make all kinds of choices but no possibility of going against Godās will?
If god wasn't such a tight ass, he wouldn't have a whole list of things that he made that he doesn't want us to do.
I was talking about peoples actions. God doesnāt āmakeā peoples actions.
As for the second thing you said, you really do sound like youāre about 14 years old. Obviously there are going to be certain things that people shouldnāt do to each other, like murder, theft, etc. If you have a problem with that, take it up with God. But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦ which just goes to show your hypocrisy and/or foolishness.
Have you ever heard of the law of non-contradiction?
Sure, but how does that apply here?But for someone to take an action, that action had to have been invented by god. So why would god make actions that are bad? Why not just have nothing but good choices?If something is against god's will, why did god make it?Think about it. In this world you have things that are in harmony with Godās will, and things that go against Godās will. Tell me, how can you have a world where people have freedom to make all kinds of choices but no possibility of going against Godās will?
If god wasn't such a tight ass, he wouldn't have a whole list of things that he made that he doesn't want us to do.
I was talking about peoples actions. God doesnāt āmakeā peoples actions.
As for the second thing you said, you really do sound like youāre about 14 years old. Obviously there are going to be certain things that people shouldnāt do to each other, like murder, theft, etc. If you have a problem with that, take it up with God. But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦ which just goes to show your hypocrisy and/or foolishness.
Have you ever heard of the law of non-contradiction?
Why is it "completely illogical and nonsensical" that all the choices can't be good ones. It's like going to an amusement park, everything there is good, there are no bad rides... and everyone has a good time. God made bad choices on purpose, why?Sure, but how does that apply here?But for someone to take an action, that action had to have been invented by god. So why would god make actions that are bad? Why not just have nothing but good choices?If something is against god's will, why did god make it?
If god wasn't such a tight ass, he wouldn't have a whole list of things that he made that he doesn't want us to do.
I was talking about peoples actions. God doesnāt āmakeā peoples actions.
As for the second thing you said, you really do sound like youāre about 14 years old. Obviously there are going to be certain things that people shouldnāt do to each other, like murder, theft, etc. If you have a problem with that, take it up with God. But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦ which just goes to show your hypocrisy and/or foolishness.
Have you ever heard of the law of non-contradiction?
You asked why God couldnāt have created a world where all choices were only good? Something like that would only be possible if ALL moral choices were good/true, which is completely illogical and nonsensical, as two opposing statements cannot both be true at the same time, and in the same sense. That is the law of non-contradiction. Thatās like saying āintentionally murdering an innocent person for no reason is wrong.ā But at the same time, āIntentionally murdering an innocent person for no reason is right.ā That is illogical, and makes everything meaningless.
Why donāt you stop trying to come up alternate forms of reality, and face the reality that exists now? The sooner you do that, the better. Because one thing is absolutely certain: truth is not whatever you want it to be, it is what it is, whether you like it or not. There are certain things that are beyond your control. Once you realize that, youāll stop trying to come up with other realities and seek the actual reality and reconcile yourself with it.
Why is it "completely illogical and nonsensical" that all the choices can't be good ones. It's like going to an amusement park, everything there is good, there are no bad rides... and everyone has a good time. God made bad choices on purpose, why?Sure, but how does that apply here?But for someone to take an action, that action had to have been invented by god. So why would god make actions that are bad? Why not just have nothing but good choices?I was talking about peoples actions. God doesnāt āmakeā peoples actions.
As for the second thing you said, you really do sound like youāre about 14 years old. Obviously there are going to be certain things that people shouldnāt do to each other, like murder, theft, etc. If you have a problem with that, take it up with God. But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦ which just goes to show your hypocrisy and/or foolishness.
Have you ever heard of the law of non-contradiction?
You asked why God couldnāt have created a world where all choices were only good? Something like that would only be possible if ALL moral choices were good/true, which is completely illogical and nonsensical, as two opposing statements cannot both be true at the same time, and in the same sense. That is the law of non-contradiction. Thatās like saying āintentionally murdering an innocent person for no reason is wrong.ā But at the same time, āIntentionally murdering an innocent person for no reason is right.ā That is illogical, and makes everything meaningless.
Why donāt you stop trying to come up alternate forms of reality, and face the reality that exists now? The sooner you do that, the better. Because one thing is absolutely certain: truth is not whatever you want it to be, it is what it is, whether you like it or not. There are certain things that are beyond your control. Once you realize that, youāll stop trying to come up with other realities and seek the actual reality and reconcile yourself with it.
So basically you donāt know why god made all the bad choices. Got it.Why is it "completely illogical and nonsensical" that all the choices can't be good ones. It's like going to an amusement park, everything there is good, there are no bad rides... and everyone has a good time. God made bad choices on purpose, why?Sure, but how does that apply here?But for someone to take an action, that action had to have been invented by god. So why would god make actions that are bad? Why not just have nothing but good choices?
Have you ever heard of the law of non-contradiction?
You asked why God couldnāt have created a world where all choices were only good? Something like that would only be possible if ALL moral choices were good/true, which is completely illogical and nonsensical, as two opposing statements cannot both be true at the same time, and in the same sense. That is the law of non-contradiction. Thatās like saying āintentionally murdering an innocent person for no reason is wrong.ā But at the same time, āIntentionally murdering an innocent person for no reason is right.ā That is illogical, and makes everything meaningless.
Why donāt you stop trying to come up alternate forms of reality, and face the reality that exists now? The sooner you do that, the better. Because one thing is absolutely certain: truth is not whatever you want it to be, it is what it is, whether you like it or not. There are certain things that are beyond your control. Once you realize that, youāll stop trying to come up with other realities and seek the actual reality and reconcile yourself with it.
Re-read what I said. Your amusement park world is blatantly illogical. You need to actually think, and put your stubbornness aside for a moment and humble yourself, because you are never going to actually learn anything until you set aside your pride and stubbornness.
Nonsense, it is the other way around. It is you who will come crying to our secular government for help, after your prayer fails you.But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦
So basically you donāt know why god made all the bad choices. Got it.
Nonsense, it is the other way around. It is you who will come crying to our secular government for help, after your prayer fails you.But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦
Yes, got it, thank you for the thoughtful explanation.Nonsense, it is the other way around. It is you who will come crying to our secular government for help, after your prayer fails you.But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦
You misunderstood my point to him. Based on the post I was replying to, he seemed to have a problem with the idea that God gave us certain rules to live by. For example; do not murder, do not lie, do not steal, etc. He doesnāt like the idea that we have even the possibility of doing something wrong. My point to him was that although he doesnāt like those rules for himself, he sure as hell likes it when those rules prevent someone else from violating him. No one wants to be murdered, robbed, abused, etc. So we can see the value in those basic rules, when they protect us. Only a hypocrite would say itās wrong to have any rules while at the same time wanting protection/ justice for himself when he is being violated.
Do you understand my point now?
Yes, got it, thank you for the thoughtful explanation.Nonsense, it is the other way around. It is you who will come crying to our secular government for help, after your prayer fails you.But Iām sure the moment that someone violates you, youāll come crying, asking for helpā¦
You misunderstood my point to him. Based on the post I was replying to, he seemed to have a problem with the idea that God gave us certain rules to live by. For example; do not murder, do not lie, do not steal, etc. He doesnāt like the idea that we have even the possibility of doing something wrong. My point to him was that although he doesnāt like those rules for himself, he sure as hell likes it when those rules prevent someone else from violating him. No one wants to be murdered, robbed, abused, etc. So we can see the value in those basic rules, when they protect us. Only a hypocrite would say itās wrong to have any rules while at the same time wanting protection/ justice for himself when he is being violated.
Do you understand my point now?
I reject the idea that those ideas originated with christianity or even came from god at all. My moral code is far superior to the ten commandments.
Nonsense. In what do you "ground" your moral standard against rape? Not the ten commandments, for sure. We call it "objectively wrong" because we have agreed on other truths we also call "objective", and that is fine. The well being of humans is something we can objectively measure, there is objective morality to be found.to me it is clear that a true, objective moral standard exists. That is a big problem for atheists, because atheists have no way to āgroundā an objective moral standardā¦
I accounted for that difference in the second paragraph:I didnāt even read past the third paragraph, because you donāt seem to understand thereās a difference between religion and God.
You would be well advised to put on your figurative kevlar underwear.