Recharging your car in twenty minutes

[flacaltenn]

Perhaps. It just seems that this is something that is moving from the early adopter phase into the early majority phase of the technology adoption lifecycle. Marketing 101 kind of stuff. If the market will bear it, it will happen, despite whatever mistakes might happen along the way. Left alone instead of politicized might be better.

So -- it moves into mass adoption phase and NOTHING is done or anticipated about these EXCESSIVE fast-charging demands on the grid.. What do you think is gonna happen? Think the grid generation capacity is gonna greatly increase instantaneously once these cars are in garages? I don't think we have to go thru that expensive mistake of STRANDING ALL electrical consumers with skyrocketing pricing..

These battery EVs will have a purpose to refine the motors, drivetrains and innovative features. But the EV car of the future will have a LOWER OVERALL cost to society and the market. AND it will bring with it -- it's own SUSTAINABLE, ZERO Emission, and storable fuel --- which is Hydrogen. Made by renewals -- off grid. Like renewables OUGHT to be used.

And the consumer won't face Time of Day pricing, or "fast charge" surtaxes or astronomical rates for an emergency build-out of the generation cap. and grid.

Enjoy them while they last.. But PLEASE... Be AWARE of corporate hype and consumer hysteria.. Big EV --- is just as full of it as Big Fast Food.

I'm not saying it's not a legitimate concern, I just don't know if it is as "gloom and doom" as you are saying.

So lemme ask...

Do you feel motivated to pull 1Watt chargers out of the wall when not in use and turn off a light you're not using, BUT

You'd have no societal guilt or environmental concerns with piggishly charging your Leaf in 20 minutes using the equivalent grid draw of 75 WHOLE HOMES?

Or filling up your Tesla in 20 minutes using the grid demand of 180 houses?

You're OK with the implications of that if I and 20,000 others in your town start doing it?
No -- not doom and gloom.. Just really really really bad civil and social planning and engineering. THat's what this "marketing hype" really is...

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

So -- it moves into mass adoption phase and NOTHING is done or anticipated about these EXCESSIVE fast-charging demands on the grid.. What do you think is gonna happen? Think the grid generation capacity is gonna greatly increase instantaneously once these cars are in garages? I don't think we have to go thru that expensive mistake of STRANDING ALL electrical consumers with skyrocketing pricing..

These battery EVs will have a purpose to refine the motors, drivetrains and innovative features. But the EV car of the future will have a LOWER OVERALL cost to society and the market. AND it will bring with it -- it's own SUSTAINABLE, ZERO Emission, and storable fuel --- which is Hydrogen. Made by renewals -- off grid. Like renewables OUGHT to be used.

And the consumer won't face Time of Day pricing, or "fast charge" surtaxes or astronomical rates for an emergency build-out of the generation cap. and grid.

Enjoy them while they last.. But PLEASE... Be AWARE of corporate hype and consumer hysteria.. Big EV --- is just as full of it as Big Fast Food.

I'm not saying it's not a legitimate concern, I just don't know if it is as "gloom and doom" as you are saying.

So lemme ask...

Do you feel motivated to pull 1Watt chargers out of the wall when not in use and turn off a light you're not using, BUT

You'd have no societal guilt or environmental concerns with piggishly charging your Leaf in 20 minutes using the equivalent grid draw of 75 WHOLE HOMES?

Or filling up your Tesla in 20 minutes using the grid demand of 180 houses?

You're OK with the implications of that if I and 20,000 others in your town start doing it?
No -- not doom and gloom.. Just really really really bad civil and social planning and engineering. THat's what this "marketing hype" really is...

That's a little hostile, but okay. I'm not trying to fight with you. I freely admit you may know more about it than I do. I'm only looking at it from a capitalist standpoint. I trust that the free market will work out the details sooner or later, as, in my humble opinion, it should.

I suspect you may be trying to pin an agenda on me that isn't there.

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm not saying it's not a legitimate concern, I just don't know if it is as "gloom and doom" as you are saying.

So lemme ask...

Do you feel motivated to pull 1Watt chargers out of the wall when not in use and turn off a light you're not using, BUT

You'd have no societal guilt or environmental concerns with piggishly charging your Leaf in 20 minutes using the equivalent grid draw of 75 WHOLE HOMES?

Or filling up your Tesla in 20 minutes using the grid demand of 180 houses?

You're OK with the implications of that if I and 20,000 others in your town start doing it?
No -- not doom and gloom.. Just really really really bad civil and social planning and engineering. THat's what this "marketing hype" really is...

That's a little hostile, but okay. I'm not trying to fight with you. I freely admit you may know more about it than I do. I'm only looking at it from a capitalist standpoint. I trust that the free market will work out the details sooner or later, as, in my humble opinion, it should.

I suspect you may be trying to pin an agenda on me that isn't there.

No hostility to you. We've just met. I asked out of curiousity because I want to know if i'm the oddball seeing the discontinuity of messaging between "electricity conservation" and "all your car can eat".. And I just can't believe that folks who really want to "WILL" this plug-in to work have ANY guilt about sucking another 20 or 40 homes worth of grid load just to charge their cars faster.

Excellent response.. And it's pretty clear to me that "fast charging" will not come for free. I can almost envision a set of buttons on the pump for pricing where FASTER CHARGES will cost astronomically more money. Because after all it's MAX grid load that determines when the public has to pay for another power plant or grid update. I'm SURE the market will work as you say.. But I'm also certain that the HYPE will prevail over the engineering and the folks who aren't looking at the analysis will be sorely dissappointed in the end.

(4 comments about me being an oddball -- coming right up !!! )

 

[Old Rocks]

Grid scale batteries would easily DOUBLE the cost of a significant Solar or Wind farm build.. And they would represent TONS of toxic material siting on the farm.. Not already expensive enough for you?

The Japanese are doing SOME of this because they are BETTER engineers and won't ALLOW wind or solar on their grids without a MINIMUM of local storage. But that's the equivalent of 10 or 20 MINUTES of typical capacity..

But when the wind don't blow most of Wednesday -- those batteries become useless expensive "feature"...

EVEN IF I BELIEVED that "grid scale batteries ... makes siting irrelevent".. YOU'D STILL BE WRONG. Because NOBODY is planning significant Solar Capacity above the Mason Dixon Line. And WIND leaves large portions of the CONUS bare. Don't even know why you would make such a wrong sweeping statement like that..

You keep repeating this lie about HFCVehicles having a "capacity" problem. No such thing exists.. It's largely a PRICE problem right now. NO problem to match a full Tesla range and no SOCIETAL CRISIS generated from fueling it in less than 10 minutes. That's today.

VP of Toyota development says you're wrong. Hyundai and BMW says you're wrong. The adults are in charge -- I guess..

Amazing how you make stupid comments in total ignorance.

Ontario Solar Farms ? Canada ? First Solar


Amherstburg

10 MW solar farm planned for development on a 196 acre (79 ha) parcel of land located in the Town of Amherstburg (north of Middle Sideroad, east of Concession 2 North and west of Concession 3 North).

Belmont

20 MW solar farm planned for development on 448 acre s(181 ha) of land located northwest of the Town of Belmont (north of 7th Avenue, south of Scotland Drive and east of Old Victoria Road).


St Clair: Moore Solar Farm

20 MW solar farm planned for development on 297 acres (120 ha) located northeast of Mooretown in the Township of St. Clair (north of Rokeby Line, west of Highway 40).


St Clair: Sombra Solar Farm

20 MW solar farm planned for development on 347 acres (140 ha) of land located east of Sombra Village in Township of St. Clair (south of Bentpath Line, east of Baseline Road).


Walpole

20 MW solar farm planned for development on 344 acres (139 ha) of land located in the eastern portion of the former City of Nanticoke (north of Army Camp Road, south of Mud Street and east of County Line 74).

Thus far, I have seen 3 differant Tesla S's, all kinds of Leaf's and Volt's, and even a Thing or two, and EV Scions, also. With owners driving them. The only hydrogen fuel cell car I have seen was at a car show, a prototype that I never saw actually driven.

Whatever advantages you claim, the market apparently isn't buying the claims.

You poor deluded soul.. Bless your heart (old southern comfort saying pal)..

Firm sells solar panels - to itself, taxpayers pay | WashingtonExaminer.com

Firm sells solar panels - to itself, taxpayers pay
BY: TIMOTHY P. CARNEY MARCH 18, 2012 | MODIFIED: MARCH 22, 2012 AT 11:57 AM

A heavily subsidized solar company received a U.S. taxpayer loan guarantee to sell solar panels to itself.

First Solar is the company. The subsidy came from the Export-Import Bank, which President Obama and Harry Reid are currently fighting to extend and expand. The underlying issue is how Obama's insistence on green-energy subsidies and export subsidies manifests itself as rank corporate welfare.

Here's the road of subsidies these solar panels followed from Perrysburg, Ohio, to St. Clair, Ontario.

In September 2011, Ex-Im approved $455.7 million in loan guarantees to subsidize the sale of solar panels to two solar farms in Canada. That means if the solar farm ever defaults, the taxpayers pick up the tab, ensuring First Solar gets paid.

But the buyer, in this case, was First Solar.

A small corporation called St. Clair Solar owned the solar farm and was the Canadian company buying First Solar's panels. But St. Clair Solar was a wholly owned subsidiary of First Solar. So, basically, First Solar was shipping its own solar panels from Ohio to a solar farm it owned in Canada, and the U.S. taxpayers were subsidizing this "export."

First Solar spokesman Alan Bernheimer defended this maneuver, saying this really was an export, pointing out that First Solar paid sales taxes on the transaction.

But this subsidy undermines the arguments for Ex-Im's existence. Ex-Im, whose authorization expires May 31, is supposed to be a job creator, helping U.S. manufacturers beat foreign manufacturers by having U.S. taxpayers backstop the financing.

That company is LIVING off the taxpayers and their benefactor Barack Obama. Here they get double subsidies to build the panels, AND export them to THEMSELVES in Canada of all places. This is in addition to whatever subsidies they are getting from Canada.

Boosting their stock by selling their product to themselves. All subsidized NOT BY THE MARKET --- but by governments.

IN CANADA????

What kind of production are they gonna get on shorter days from October to March with 6 inches of snow load on the panels? It'll create jobs all right. It'll look something like this.

How many acres of broom sweepers do we need??

Ya gotta love the dumb fucks that do solar advertising for us. A homeowner sweeping snow from his own source of power. One that he can expand to meet his needs should he purchase an EV or two.

We will use Solar both in private setting and utility scale, here and in Canada. And all your neener-neener will simply remind of us the fool you are.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey Pal.. Neener Neerer here again..

Canada a good choice for solar??? Ontario folks will be getting about 27% of what the Phoenix can get.

That means if you buy the panels for .50 a watt.. You really paid more like $1.85/watt. Just increasing the size doesn't really cut it tho -- if the problem is REALLY short days and snow loading..

 

[ScienceRocks]

Az, Co, New mexico, Eastern Califorina seem to be places where it is very good to have solar.

 

[flacaltenn]

Az, Co, New mexico, Eastern Califorina seem to be places where it is very good to have solar.

I was surprised by middle Canada.. THe diff between there and the big population centers is surprising aint' it?

Must be a "snow desert" east of the Rockies.

 

[Old Rocks]

Az, Co, New mexico, Eastern Califorina seem to be places where it is very good to have solar.

As is Eastern Oregon. In fact, Eastern Oregon, especially the Southeast quarter, has ample sunlight, vast geothermal potential, and major wind potential. It just lacks the grid at present to carry the enegy to where it is needed.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hey Pal.. Neener Neerer here again..

Canada a good choice for solar??? Ontario folks will be getting about 27% of what the Phoenix can get.

That means if you buy the panels for .50 a watt.. You really paid more like $1.85/watt. Just increasing the size doesn't really cut it tho -- if the problem is REALLY short days and snow loading..

Excellent point. Yes, your math is spot on. And, since most of inhabited Canada is in the 2.4 to 3.0 range, that is a bargain for most of the year. You see, dirty coal costs 2 dollars a watt to build, then you have to buy the coal. And kill a river or two with the flyash.

Better than putting to panels on acreage, would be putting them on industrial and commercial roofs. Close to the user points, and the structure is already there.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

So lemme ask...

Do you feel motivated to pull 1Watt chargers out of the wall when not in use and turn off a light you're not using, BUT

You'd have no societal guilt or environmental concerns with piggishly charging your Leaf in 20 minutes using the equivalent grid draw of 75 WHOLE HOMES?

Or filling up your Tesla in 20 minutes using the grid demand of 180 houses?

You're OK with the implications of that if I and 20,000 others in your town start doing it?
No -- not doom and gloom.. Just really really really bad civil and social planning and engineering. THat's what this "marketing hype" really is...

That's a little hostile, but okay. I'm not trying to fight with you. I freely admit you may know more about it than I do. I'm only looking at it from a capitalist standpoint. I trust that the free market will work out the details sooner or later, as, in my humble opinion, it should.

I suspect you may be trying to pin an agenda on me that isn't there.

No hostility to you. We've just met. I asked out of curiousity because I want to know if i'm the oddball seeing the discontinuity of messaging between "electricity conservation" and "all your car can eat".. And I just can't believe that folks who really want to "WILL" this plug-in to work have ANY guilt about sucking another 20 or 40 homes worth of grid load just to charge their cars faster.

Excellent response.. And it's pretty clear to me that "fast charging" will not come for free. I can almost envision a set of buttons on the pump for pricing where FASTER CHARGES will cost astronomically more money. Because after all it's MAX grid load that determines when the public has to pay for another power plant or grid update. I'm SURE the market will work as you say.. But I'm also certain that the HYPE will prevail over the engineering and the folks who aren't looking at the analysis will be sorely dissappointed in the end.

(4 comments about me being an oddball -- coming right up !!! )

We may have simply been talking past one another. I appreciate your input.

 

[Old Rocks]

As for fast charging coming for free. It won't, except for those that buy Tesla cars early on. But it will be a real money maker for Elon Musk. Grid scale battery by every station. And it will still cost far less than gasoline.

 

[flacaltenn]

As for fast charging coming for free. It won't, except for those that buy Tesla cars early on. But it will be a real money maker for Elon Musk. Grid scale battery by every station. And it will still cost far less than gasoline.

You have no idea what the REAL costs will be.. But I know you're not including the cost of the new power plants and grid update.. Fast charge will most likely TRIPLE the going rate for a commercial charge station. THat PLUS the costs of additional public infrastructure will be passed thru..

As long as Musk is out there blowing smoke up your skirt -- you're in ignorant bliss.

 

[Surfer]

That is very interesting.

 

[flacaltenn]

That is very interesting.

Hope so.. Your wallet is funding all this...

 

[Old Rocks]

Fecal really, really doesn't like EV's. And he is going to have a lot of them to dislike in the near future.

 

[flacaltenn]

Fecal really, really doesn't like EV's. And he is going to have a lot of them to dislike in the near future.

Not true.. LOVE hybrids and I'm betting (with actual money) on the Fuel Cell electric vehicles to be a better choice for society in terms of cost and the environment.. Because thats what the car makers are actually saying.. AND I want to see a BETTER application for Wind and Solar (making hydrogen) than using them as flaky grid generators.

See GoldiRocks, I actually AM an environmentalist. Just not a MINDLESS one..

 

[Billo_Really]

How much will it cost after the dollar crashes?

That's the nice thing about technology, the price always goes down.