Charging my leaf

[justoffal]

It's only a matter of time before a new term is coined for EV Charging rage.

What's the over under on the first EV charging related shooting?

Electrogression!

 

[Blues Man]

Electrogression!

I like it.

 

[Crick]

What will you call it when somone can get a 1,000 mile range with a ten minute charge? The end of ICE.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

What will you call it when somone [sic] can get a 1,000 mile range with a ten minute charge? The end of ICE.

Do you expect to live to see that? At my age, and with what indicators exist of the current state of technology and the rate at which it is likely to advance, I do not.

I do not think that we are anywhere close to the point where we will be able to recharge an EV at a rate that is at all comparable to refueling a real car.

 

[Crick]

Do you expect to live to see that? At my age, and with what indicators exist of the current state of technology and the rate at which it is likely to advance, I do not.

I do not think that we are anywhere close to the point where we will be able to recharge an EV at a rate that is at all comparable to refueling a real car.

It doesn't really matter whether you or I see it. It is going to happen and soon. Solid state, long range, fast charge batteries have al;ready been announced by multiple auto and battery manufacturers. If you haven't seen it Bob, you've been in hiding.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It doesn't really matter whether you or I see it. It is going to happen and soon. Solid state, long range, fast charge batteries have al;ready [sic] been announced by multiple auto and battery manufacturers. If you haven't seen it Bob, you've been in hiding.

For longer than I've been alive, “flying cars” were claimed to be almost here. There have been companies that have claimed to be on the verge of bringing them to market. Not ne has hit the market yet, and I will be surprised if one does before I reach the end of my life.

Ditto for controlled fusion as an energy source.

Forgive me if I remain skeptical about any product that you claim is in the works, before it actually become possible to go out and buy that product.

But aside from that, there is a matter of simply delivering that much electrical power to a charging station, and safely handling it.

A real car, with a twenty-gallon fuel tank, can be refueled in a few minutes. To be conservative, let us say five minutes. A gallon of gasoline is 33,700 watt-hours of energy. 33700 20 × = 674,000 watts.

67400 60 × 5 ÷ = 8,880,000 watts.

So eight million watts of power, to charge an EV at the same rate at which a real car can be refueled. Do you have any idea how much power that is?

A common residence, with a 200-ampere service, at 240 volts would be 200 240 × = 48,000 watts. That's for an entire household.

You're talking about 185 residential households' worth of power, to be able to charge an EV at a comparable rate to refueling a real car. That's to charge one car.

Don't even think of trying that at home.

I have to have serious doubts about the equipment to charge a car at that rate being anything that can be safely handled or maintained without very specialized training and skills; certainly not something that a common motorist could be expected to handle, as we handle a common gasoline pump.

If you envision a charging station, with multiple chargers, to service several cars at once, as a gasoline station services real cars, then you need to multiply that 8,880,000 watts by however many cars you expect it to service at a time.


I do think that EVs have some tremendous advantages to offer, but we are still a very, very, very long way top the point where they will be nearly as practical as real cars, for most peoples' needs; and there are some tremendous technological obstacles that still have yet to be overcome, that we are nowhere close to solving.

 

[justoffal]

For longer than I've been alive, “flying cars” were claimed to be almost here. There have been companies that have claimed to be on the verge of bringing them to market. Not ne has hit the market yet, and I will be surprised if one does before I reach the end of my life.

Ditto for controlled fusion as an energy source.

Forgive me if I remain skeptical about any product that you claim is in the works, before it actually become possible to go out and buy that product.

But aside from that, there is a matter of simply delivering that much electrical power to a charging station, and safely handling it.

A real car, with a twenty-gallon fuel tank, can be refueled in a few minutes. To be conservative, let us say five minutes. A gallon of gasoline is 33,700 watt-hours of energy. 33700 20 × = 674,000 watts.

67400 60 × 5 ÷ = 8,880,000 watts.

So eight million watts of power, to charge an EV at the same rate at which a real car can be refueled. Do you have any idea how much power that is?

A common residence, with a 200-ampere service, at 240 volts would be 200 240 × = 48,000 watts. That's for an entire household.

You're talking about 185 residential households' worth of power, to be able to charge an EV at a comparable rate to refueling a real car. That's to charge one car.

Don't even think of trying that at home.

I have to have serious doubts about the equipment to charge a car at that rate being anything that can be safely handled or maintained without very specialized training and skills; certainly not something that a common motorist could be expected to handle, as we handle a common gasoline pump.

If you envision a charging station, with multiple chargers, to service several cars at once, as a gasoline station services real cars, then you need to multiply that 8,880,000 watts by however many cars you expect it to service at a time.


I do think that EVs have some tremendous advantages to offer, but we are still a very, very, very long way top the point where they will be nearly as practical as real cars, for most peoples' needs; and there are some tremendous technological obstacles that still have yet to be overcome, that we are nowhere close to solving.

Technology will never advance beyond the laws of physics. You have adequately stated the potential catastrophe of such high amperage energy transfer using conductors made with materials found on Earth. That type of energy passage in that short a period of time would require wiring that would weigh tons just for the hookup of one vehicle.

Still might get a fire.... Or a meltdown.

 

[Blues Man]

What will you call it when somone can get a 1,000 mile range with a ten minute charge? The end of ICE.

it won't happen in your lifetime.

 

[Crick]

it won't happen in your lifetime.

I think it will happen well within the next 5 years

 

[Blues Man]

I think it will happen well within the next 5 years

That's funny.

 

[ReinyDays]

For longer than I've been alive, “flying cars” were claimed to be almost here. There have been companies that have claimed to be on the verge of bringing them to market. Not ne has hit the market yet, and I will be surprised if one does before I reach the end of my life.

Ditto for controlled fusion as an energy source.

Forgive me if I remain skeptical about any product that you claim is in the works, before it actually become possible to go out and buy that product.

But aside from that, there is a matter of simply delivering that much electrical power to a charging station, and safely handling it.

A real car, with a twenty-gallon fuel tank, can be refueled in a few minutes. To be conservative, let us say five minutes. A gallon of gasoline is 33,700 watt-hours of energy. 33700 20 × = 674,000 watts.

67400 60 × 5 ÷ = 8,880,000 watts.

So eight million watts of power, to charge an EV at the same rate at which a real car can be refueled. Do you have any idea how much power that is?

A common residence, with a 200-ampere service, at 240 volts would be 200 240 × = 48,000 watts. That's for an entire household.

You're talking about 185 residential households' worth of power, to be able to charge an EV at a comparable rate to refueling a real car. That's to charge one car.

Don't even think of trying that at home.

I have to have serious doubts about the equipment to charge a car at that rate being anything that can be safely handled or maintained without very specialized training and skills; certainly not something that a common motorist could be expected to handle, as we handle a common gasoline pump.

If you envision a charging station, with multiple chargers, to service several cars at once, as a gasoline station services real cars, then you need to multiply that 8,880,000 watts by however many cars you expect it to service at a time.


I do think that EVs have some tremendous advantages to offer, but we are still a very, very, very long way top the point where they will be nearly as practical as real cars, for most peoples' needs; and there are some tremendous technological obstacles that still have yet to be overcome, that we are nowhere close to solving.

You can't draw 200 amps through a 200-amp service overnight ... the eco-weenies claim: "On average, a Level 2 EV charger uses 7,200 watts, or 7.2 kilowatts, of electricity [sic]" ... for 12 hours a day that's 85 kW-hr of energy ... or $8.50 ... the only question is why are you commuting 300 miles a day ... that's $50 a day in gasoline ... or are you getting better mileage out of aluminum F-350's now? ...

 

[Crick]

You can't draw 200 amps through a 200-amp service overnight

Why do you say "overnight" here?

... the eco-weenies claim: "On average, a Level 2 EV charger uses 7,200 watts, or 7.2 kilowatts, of electricity [sic]" ... for 12 hours a day that's 85 kW-hr of energy ... or $8.50 ... the only question is why are you commuting 300 miles a day ... that's $50 a day in gasoline ... or are you getting better mileage out of aluminum F-350's now? ...

I looked up an F-350 SuperDuty and found it got 13.1 mpg combined. 300 miles would take 23 gallons. At $3.50/gal that's more like $80

 

[justoffal]

You can't draw 200 amps through a 200-amp service overnight ... the eco-weenies claim: "On average, a Level 2 EV charger uses 7,200 watts, or 7.2 kilowatts, of electricity [sic]" ... for 12 hours a day that's 85 kW-hr of energy ... or $8.50 ... the only question is why are you commuting 300 miles a day ... that's $50 a day in gasoline ... or are you getting better mileage out of aluminum F-350's now? ...

So far I've seen some pretty wild stuff in this thread. Barring the discovery of any new materials from other planets I assume we are limited to the ones we can get here on Earth. The rate of energy transfer being talked about would absolutely melt the living shit out of anything built with Earth sourced materials. These are the laws of physics and they're not subject to politics, opinions or hopeful projections.

Now it's possible we might discover a new metal somewhere on the planet Mercury maybe and call it superchargeammonium! Capable of passing ridiculous amounts of energy as a conductor without the side effects of dissipating heat. When we discover that element perhaps then some of these crazy claims being made by the hopefuls will become possible.

Now what's really funny about all of this is that I have the time to make this post from my phone because I'm sitting in my car right now at a charging station waiting to pick up about 90%. Lol.

Jo

 

[Crick]

So far I've seen some pretty wild stuff in this thread. Barring the discovery of any new materials from other planets I assume we are limited to the ones we can get here on Earth. The rate of energy transfer being talked about would absolutely melt the living shit out of anything built with Earth sourced materials. These are the laws of physics and they're not subject to politics, opinions or hopeful projections. Now it's possible we might discover a new metal somewhere on the planet Mercury maybe and call it superchargeammonium! Capable of passing ridiculous amounts of energy as a conductor without the side effects of dissipating heat. When we discover that element perhaps then some of these crazy claims being made by the hopefuls will become possible.

Room temperature super conductors. Piece of pie.

 

[justoffal]

Room temperature super conductors. Piece of pie.

Yeah I heard the Chinese have been using some types of carbon ribbon for their long distance high voltage networks but haven't done too much research into it. However I feel compelled to note that I don't think anything's going to remain room temperature with that type of amperage moving through it. One of the biggest problems with the current charging stations is that they wear out quickly due to the enormous energy transfer they are handling. Right now the evgo 600 volt DC stations are sporting a massive 4 gauge lead that I think an elderly person would have trouble picking up and inserting. In fact I'm on the other end of one of those leads right now lol. Of course there's always the inconvenient little problem that's such a conductor does not yet exist.

 

[Crick]

Yeah I heard the Chinese have been using those for their long distance high voltage networks but haven't done too much research into it. However I feel compelled to note that I don't think anything's going to remain room temperature with that type of amperage moving through it. One of the biggest problems with the current charging stations is that they wear out quickly due to the enormous energy transfer they are handling. Right now the evgo 600 volt DC stations are sporting a massive 4 gauge lead that I think an elderly person would have trouble picking up and inserting. In fact I'm on the other end of one of those leads right now lol. Of course there's always the inconvenient little problem that's such a conductor does not yet exist.

Sorry I left off the laughy face. No one yet has a room temperature superconductor though there have been a few claims lately. But if they did, there'd be no problem carrying huge currents with them because they are superconductors. NO resistance. No heating. The stability problem with superconductors has to do with magnetic fields.

To charge a 100 kWh battery in ten minutes would require a 600 kW supply. That could be done with three Level 3 chargers. Like I said. Piece of pie.

 

[justoffal]

Sorry I left off the laughy face. No one yet has a room temperature superconductor though there have been a few claims lately. But if they did, there'd be no problem carrying huge currents with them because they are superconductors. NO resistance. No heating. The stability problem with superconductors has to do with magnetic fields.

To charge a 100 kWh battery in ten minutes would require a 600 kW supply. That could be done with three Level 3 chargers. Like I said. Piece of pie.

Geezus......something will melt. Maybe the battery?

 

[Blues Man]

Why do you say "overnight" here?


I looked up an F-350 SuperDuty and found it got 13.1 mpg combined. 300 miles would take 23 gallons. At $3.50/gal that's more like $80

View attachment 885139

And it's a bogus comparison because there is no electric equivalent of the F 350.

 

[ReinyDays]

... the rate of energy transfer being talked about would absolutely melt the living shit out of anything built with Earth sourced materials ...

The National Electric Code calls for 8 gauge wire circuits to be protected at 55 amps ... either copper or aluminum ... well within the 30 amps we're pulling with a "level 2" charger ... 30 amps times 240 volts equals 7.2 kW of power ...

Compared to an electric range with all four burners rolling at 9.6 kW ... (50 square meters of solar panels) ...

No one's answered the question "Why are you commuting 300 miles a day?" ... you should be on the train instead ...

 

[Blues Man]

The National Electric Code calls for 8 gauge wire circuits to be protected at 55 amps ... either copper or aluminum ... well within the 30 amps we're pulling with a "level 2" charger ... 30 amps times 240 volts equals 7.2 kW of power ...

Compared to an electric range with all four burners rolling at 9.6 kW ... (50 square meters of solar panels) ...

No one's answered the question "Why are you commuting 300 miles a day?" ... you should be on the train instead ...

Maybe he's a sales rep.