Question For Christians & Atheists

[Againsheila]

I would love to see definitive proof that god exists.

“Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

 

[asterism]

As an atheist...sure, if God shows she exists I am willing to change my views

I just see no current evidence of the fact. Atheism is not a religion, it is just an honest evaluation of the facts as they are presented

Atheism isn't "just an honest evaluation of the facts as they are presented." Atheism is a human interpretation of humanly quantifiable and understandable evidence. There is a difference.

 

[asterism]

I would love to see definitive proof that god exists.

But you can't, because the religious nuts will all say that God exists because THEY have heard him/seen him whatever yet they can't prove he exists to anyone else.

I wonder why?

Who says one can't see definitive proof?


I think you're full of shit.

 

[asterism]

Lets say you had a chance to fine out, once and for all, whether God actually existed. Would a Christian want to take the chance that God didn't exist? Would they still believe in God even though a God didn't exist?

If God did exist, you would also find out whether it was the Christian version or Islamic version of God - would you still want to know?

Or do you prefer not knowing?

Of course I'd want to know. What sort of question is that?

And what's the question to Atheists?

Would an atheist want to take the risk that a God actually did exist?

You didn't ask that until just now.


I don't think you've thought this through very much.

 

[oldfart]

Lets say you had a chance to fine out, once and for all, whether God actually existed. Would a Christian want to take the chance that God didn't exist? Would they still believe in God even though a God didn't exist?

If God did exist, you would also find out whether it was the Christian version or Islamic version of God - would you still want to know?

Or do you prefer not knowing?

1. Everyone believes in "God", properly defined.

2. All proofs of God that apply to one God also apply to all other Gods.

3. Life cannot be a Celestial Lottery where good things only happen in an afterlife to those who bought a certain ticket. The contrapositive is also true.

4. Making the question "Does God exist and what does God want me to do?" has been the source of most of the world's evil and is the wrong basic question on which to base belief.

Personally I would have little interest in pressing a magic button, because I do not see how it would alter how I behave. Neither would I fear it, regardless of the possible outcomes; and out of a pure sense of mischief I would probably press it!

Neither would I be surprised if after everyone saw the "Answer" that 99.44% of mankind went back to believing exactly what they did before.

 

[Noomi]

Of course I'd want to know. What sort of question is that?

And what's the question to Atheists?

Would an atheist want to take the risk that a God actually did exist?

You didn't ask that until just now.


I don't think you've thought this through very much.

I thought the question would have been obvious in the OP.

 

[asterism]

Would an atheist want to take the risk that a God actually did exist?

You didn't ask that until just now.


I don't think you've thought this through very much.

I thought the question would have been obvious in the OP.

Nope.

"Lets say you had a chance to fine out, once and for all, whether God actually existed. Would a Christian want to take the chance that God didn't exist? Would they still believe in God even though a God didn't exist?

If God did exist, you would also find out whether it was the Christian version or Islamic version of God - would you still want to know?

Or do you prefer not knowing?"

 

[HUGGY]

Lets say you had a chance to fine out, once and for all, whether God actually existed. Would a Christian want to take the chance that God didn't exist? Would they still believe in God even though a God didn't exist?

If God did exist, you would also find out whether it was the Christian version or Islamic version of God - would you still want to know?

Or do you prefer not knowing?

Of course I'd want to know. What sort of question is that?

And what's the question to Atheists?

Would an atheist want to take the risk that a God actually did exist?

The believers have had over three thousand years to prove a god exists. For that matter the fantasy sky fairy has had ample opportunity to present itself. The biggest "no show" in history. Why do you suppose this all knowing all powerful being has only revealed itself to just a couple of guys in secret? If I was going to go "zombie" and give my life over to some illusion at least I would come up with something more reliable and straight forward.

My "god" would make itself known to all...make simple demands.. Be clear of purpose. In short...honorable...something really worth looking up to...not some scamming .. murdering...stealing manipulative piece of shit that would allow disgusting perverted behavior. If MY GOD was a see all know all god he/she/it would smite most of you lying perverted assholes right on the spot. My god would have witnesses that would come back from the dead on a regular basis with accurate and up to the minute reports on heaven and hell.

My god wouldn't reward stupidity. My god would reward honesty and bravery in a straight forward manner so all could clearly see the benefit in believing and living by his/her/its commands.

My god would immediately punish anyone that took it upon themselves to "interpret" his/her/it's words and commands.

But no such god of truth and honor exists...does it.

So what you are threatening is the reveal of the flimsy immoral god of christianity?

Maybe this god won't show up because it is such a shitty god and has failed in every test.

 

[Againsheila]

I think God has proven over and over again that he exists:

"I Believe"

I believe for every drop of rain that falls
A flower grows,
I believe that somewhere in the darkest night
A candle glows,
I believe for everyone who goes astray,
Someone will come to show the way,
I believe, I believe.

I believe above the storm a smallest prayer
Will still be heard,
I believe that someone in the great somewhere
Hears every word,
Every time I hear a newborn baby cry,
Or touch a leaf, or see the sky,
Then I know why,
I believe.

Every time I hear a newborn baby cry,
Or touch a leaf, or see the sky,
Then I know why,
I believe.

Of course I'd want to know. What sort of question is that?

And what's the question to Atheists?

Would an atheist want to take the risk that a God actually did exist?

The believers have had over three thousand years to prove a god exists. For that matter the fantasy sky fairy has had ample opportunity to present itself. The biggest "no show" in history. Why do you suppose this all knowing all powerful being has only revealed itself to just a couple of guys in secret? If I was going to go "zombie" and give my life over to some illusion at least I would come up with something more reliable and straight forward.

My "god" would make itself known to all...make simple demands.. Be clear of purpose. In short...honorable...something really worth looking up to...not some scamming .. murdering...stealing manipulative piece of shit that would allow disgusting perverted behavior. If MY GOD was a see all know all god he/she/it would smite most of you lying perverted assholes right on the spot. My god would have witnesses that would come back from the dead on a regular basis with accurate and up to the minute reports on heaven and hell.

My god wouldn't reward stupidity. My god would reward honesty and bravery in a straight forward manner so all could clearly see the benefit in believing and living by his/her/its commands.

My god would immediately punish anyone that took it upon themselves to "interpret" his/her/it's words and commands.

But no such god of truth and honor exists...does it.

So what you are threatening is the reveal of the flimsy immoral god of christianity?

Maybe this god won't show up because it is such a shitty god and has failed in every test.

 

[Big Black Dog]

That is not what I meant. You believe he exists, but you can't prove that he exists to me, can you?

You can't see the wind but you can see the effects of the wind blowing. Same thing with God. You can't see Him but if you open your eyes you can see proof of His presence.

 

[emilynghiem]

Lets say you had a chance to fine out, once and for all, whether God actually existed. Would a Christian want to take the chance that God didn't exist? Would they still believe in God even though a God didn't exist?

If God did exist, you would also find out whether it was the Christian version or Islamic version of God - would you still want to know?

Or do you prefer not knowing?

Dear Noomi: This is a good honest question, and chance to clarify what God means.

If God means something false that doesn't exist, of course that should be thrown out or changed. The point of believing in God is NOT for the sake of having something to believe in for reward or benefit. if so, that is false faith that is conditional, so yes it should be dropped. And if it is false faith in a false perception of God, that is twice as much reason to drop that and start over.

What believing in God means is developing an understanding of the ultimate powerful source of all truth and knowledge of life, and how all things work, that by definition must be universal to all humanity, including all tribes from Atheist to Fundamental religions, in order for this one God to represent that level of truth. Otherwise, it cannot be God if it is false or less than universal in any way!

So yes, to answer your question, the point is to KNOW what is the ultimate truth. THAT is the point of believing and following this one God or source of all life, knowledge and wisdom. So by definition of God, God HAS to mean something so true this is univerally inclusive. It is NOT to cling to some God that ISN'T universal truth. Or else it contradicts what God is.

 

[emilynghiem]

I think God has proven over and over again that he exists:

"I Believe"

I believe for every drop of rain that falls
A flower grows,
I believe that somewhere in the darkest night
A candle glows,
I believe for everyone who goes astray,
Someone will come to show the way,
I believe, I believe.

I believe above the storm a smallest prayer
Will still be heard,
I believe that someone in the great somewhere
Hears every word,
Every time I hear a newborn baby cry,
Or touch a leaf, or see the sky,
Then I know why,
I believe.

Every time I hear a newborn baby cry,
Or touch a leaf, or see the sky,
Then I know why,
I believe.

I LOVE Don Williams lyrics to "I believe in you"
Just appreciate the simple wonders in life, and you can see love everywhere:

I don't believe in superstars
Organic food and foreign cars
I don't believe the price of gold
The certainty of growing old
That right is right and left is wrong
That north and south can't get along
That east is east and west is west
And being first is always best

But I believe in love I believe in babies
I believe in Mom and Dad And I believe in you

Well, I don't believe that heaven waits
For only those who congregate
I like to think of God as love
He's down below, he's up above
He's watching people everywhere
He knows who does and doesn't care
And I'm an ordinary man
Sometimes I wonder who I am

But I believe in love I believe in music
I believe in magicAnd I believe in you

I know with all my certainty What's goin' on with you and me
Is a good thing It's true, I believe in you

I don't believe virginity
Is as common as it used to be
In working days and sleeping nights
That black is black and white is white
That Superman and Robin Hood
Are still alive in Hollywood
That gasoline's in short supply
The rising cost of getting by

But I believe in love I believe in old folks
I believe in children I believe in you
I believe in love I believe in babies
I believe in Mom and Dad And I believe in you

 

[emilynghiem]

That is not what I meant. You believe he exists, but you can't prove that he exists to me, can you?

You can't see the wind but you can see the effects of the wind blowing. Same thing with God. You can't see Him but if you open your eyes you can see proof of His presence.

The way my bf explains it, can you prove you love your mother.
Can you prove love is real and is not just people acting that way for convenience or reward.

As for proving what God means to different people, including Noomi, it depends what they value most in life, and to align and understand that whatever is meant by God, those good things they believe in are an expression of that same God. it comes from the same source.

 

[emilynghiem]

The believers have had over three thousand years to prove a god exists. For that matter the fantasy sky fairy has had ample opportunity to present itself. The biggest "no show" in history. Why do you suppose this all knowing all powerful being has only revealed itself to just a couple of guys in secret? If I was going to go "zombie" and give my life over to some illusion at least I would come up with something more reliable and straight forward.

My "god" would make itself known to all...make simple demands.. Be clear of purpose. In short...honorable...something really worth looking up to...not some scamming .. murdering...stealing manipulative piece of shit that would allow disgusting perverted behavior. If MY GOD was a see all know all god he/she/it would smite most of you lying perverted assholes right on the spot. My god would have witnesses that would come back from the dead on a regular basis with accurate and up to the minute reports on heaven and hell.

My god wouldn't reward stupidity. My god would reward honesty and bravery in a straight forward manner so all could clearly see the benefit in believing and living by his/her/its commands.

My god would immediately punish anyone that took it upon themselves to "interpret" his/her/it's words and commands.

But no such god of truth and honor exists...does it.

So what you are threatening is the reveal of the flimsy immoral god of christianity?

Maybe this god won't show up because it is such a shitty god and has failed in every test.

Dear Huggy: by the time people believe in God, there is no more requirement to prove it because it will be taken for granted like gravity. We may require specific explanations and demonstrations of how laws work in nature and in practice, but we don't question that gravity and physics laws exist! Same with God and Jesus, and what they represent.

What most people are looking for is proof that Justice exists, and that Truth conquers falseness, and Love conquers fear. When we see proof of transformation, and right triumphing over wrong, we gain more faith that these things shall be established, and end the cycles of destruction that negate our faith that justice will trump injustice.

That is what most people need to see in order to believe. That you do get what you deserve in the end. There is a method to all this madness, there is higher justice or karmic cause and effect that is beyond any law enforced by man, but is coming from a higher source.

P.S. I know that is a serious answer with deep implications about where humanity is heading. If you prefer a lighter approach to having this one God make a final show,
there is a great satire website by a humanist, about whose God is the right one. Enjoy!

The Great God Contest: The Mother of all Contests!
The Great God Contest: The Mother of all Contests!

 

[HUGGY]

That is not what I meant. You believe he exists, but you can't prove that he exists to me, can you?

You can't see the wind but you can see the effects of the wind blowing. Same thing with God. You can't see Him but if you open your eyes you can see proof of His presence.

You are descibing a pick pocket..You didn't feel your wallet get taken from your possession....but the fact it is gone proves that someone took it. Not evidence of an all powerfull an all loving..all knowing superior being. A real god wouldn't play games with you. A real god that REALLY loves "his children" wouldn't fuck with their heads. Do you play head games with your kids? The most primative animals don't play head games with it's offspring.

 

[emilynghiem]

Would an atheist want to take the risk that a God actually did exist?

Either way, changing your mind may depend on
how many people with opposing beliefs you insulted, wronged or otherwise treated unjustly
by blaming them for things that turn out to be truth after all.

If you have to keep clinging and defending your position,
because of all the justifications that depend on it being right and the others wrong,
it may be harder to change if it turns out you were mistaken.

 

[emilynghiem]

That is not what I meant. You believe he exists, but you can't prove that he exists to me, can you?

You can't see the wind but you can see the effects of the wind blowing. Same thing with God. You can't see Him but if you open your eyes you can see proof of His presence.

You are descibing a pick pocket..You didn't feel your wallet get taken from your possession....but the fact it is gone proves that someone took it. Not evidence of an all powerfull an all loving..all knowing superior being. A real god wouldn't play games with you. A real god that REALLY loves "his children" wouldn't fuck with their heads. Do you play head games with your kids? The most primative animals don't play head games with it's offspring.

Any games we could play on ourselves that are unfair,
can be traced to some fear or unforgiven issue we have that
we did not resolve yet.

The point of having free will, reason and conscience is to
learn to correct ourselves, and prevent our weaknesses from becoming a problem.
If this does cause a problem, we work to solve it.

So having faith or understanding that we are driven by good will and truth
to seek resolution as part of the learning curve; and accepting that our individual
learning lessons are part of a collective plan from a greater source including
all things in life is what it means to believe in one God as this ultimate source.

If we don't have this faith in the answers in life being on our side, that means that we instead have fear of forces outside our control, usually because we have unforgiven issues that we blame on things or people we then try to control or stop them from controlling us.

Seeing the bigger picture, that encompasses this entire process as GOOD and NOT harmful, evil or cruel, is what it means to have faith and understanding of God as universal love, good, truth, etc.

if you see God or God's will as anything negative or harmful in any way,
by definition that cannot be what God's will is. For God's will to be true it must be universally good and beneficial to all humanity and overcome all wrong or injustice. So it has to be good, or it contradicts the very meaning of God's will.

 

[HUGGY]

You can't see the wind but you can see the effects of the wind blowing. Same thing with God. You can't see Him but if you open your eyes you can see proof of His presence.

You are descibing a pick pocket..You didn't feel your wallet get taken from your possession....but the fact it is gone proves that someone took it. Not evidence of an all powerfull an all loving..all knowing superior being. A real god wouldn't play games with you. A real god that REALLY loves "his children" wouldn't fuck with their heads. Do you play head games with your kids? The most primative animals don't play head games with it's offspring.

Any games we could play on ourselves that are unfair,
can be traced to some fear or unforgiven issue we have that
we did not resolve yet.

The point of having free will, reason and conscience is to
learn to correct ourselves, and prevent our weaknesses from becoming a problem.
If this does cause a problem, we work to solve it.

So having faith or understanding that we are driven by good will and truth
to seek resolution as part of the learning curve; and accepting that our individual
learning lessons are part of a collective plan from a greater source including
all things in life is what it means to believe in one God as this ultimate source.

If we don't have this faith in the answers in life being on our side, that means that we instead have fear of forces outside our control, usually because we have unforgiven issues that we blame on things or people we then try to control or stop them from controlling us.

Seeing the bigger picture, that encompasses this entire process as GOOD and NOT harmful, evil or cruel, is what it means to have faith and understanding of God as universal love, good, truth, etc.

if you see God or God's will as anything negative or harmful in any way,
by definition that cannot be what God's will is. For God's will to be true it must be universally good and beneficial to all humanity and overcome all wrong or injustice. So it has to be good, or it contradicts the very meaning of God's will.

You spend a lot of time being afraid. I don't.

 

[Noomi]

That is not what I meant. You believe he exists, but you can't prove that he exists to me, can you?

You can't see the wind but you can see the effects of the wind blowing. Same thing with God. You can't see Him but if you open your eyes you can see proof of His presence.

I am pretty sure science tells us that wind exists, too. Science doesn't tell us that God exists - why would that be?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Lets say you had a chance to fine out, once and for all, whether God actually existed. Would a Christian want to take the chance that God didn't exist? Would they still believe in God even though a God didn't exist?

If God did exist, you would also find out whether it was the Christian version or Islamic version of God - would you still want to know?

Or do you prefer not knowing?

I think there is something out there. What it is is beyond anyones comprehension.

I'd like to know what it actually meant for us to do. That would be one hell of a lark on all the organized religions, as people would learn that no, religious leaders are not supposed to have that much money or power.

If it turns out there truly is nothing out there, no great meaning to it, millions will be killed as people learn there is not reason to turn the other cheek or tolerate anyone for any reason past a prison term.


If it turns out to be an islamic god, you putting that black bag on?