If you have questions about Judaism

[rosends]

Newbie starting a thread so be gentle.

If you have any questions about Judaism, feel free to ask. It is sort of a hobby of mine.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Past or future Judaism? Or both? And why did you pick Judaism for a hobby instead of needlepoint?

 

[rosends]

Past, present and future Judaism. And the hobby line was just a glib statement. I'm actually an ordained Orthodox Rabbi.

 

[Saigon]

Ok, so you are actually Jewish, then?

From your original post I thought maybe you were a Goyim who was just interested in Judaism!

Ok, I'll start things off:

There have been several incidents in Jerusalem where people have thrown stones at ambulances on Friday night, because they do not believe vehicles should be driven on Shabbat.

Do you think Judaism should 'update' some of the very outdated beliefs some Jews still cling to, or simply allow people to interpret the Talmud as they wish?

 

[rosends]

Nope, I am Jewish. Your question calls up many separate issues, so I'll try to address and clear them up one at a time.

1. While there have been cases of people throwing stones at cars, I have never heard of anyone throwing stones at ambulances. Under Jewish law, saving lives outweighs sabbath observance.

2. Stones are thrown by a very small and particular part of the population which lives in a particular area. Those areas used to block the streets so no cars can go through. The one time I saw anyone throw a stone, it was at a car which had driven around a saw horse. I'm not saying that throwing the stone was therefore acceptable but it didn't occur in a vacuum. The point is that most Jews, even observant ones don't throw stones. Over time, fewer and fewer streets in Jerusalem have been cordoned off -- the city is becoming less religious, not more.

3. Throwing stones is not actually a particular belief of Judaism. Asking about updating it then makes no sense.

4. People do not interpret the talmud as they wish. The talmud is, among other things, a law book. Laws are codified and normative practices are established. Questions about application or understanding are decided by competent and informed authorities. The individual does not interpret the talmud in a random way. He studies it and understands what has been said about it in the past. He then goes and lives his life following laws that go well beyond talmudic text.

5. I think claiming that some of Judaism's tenets are outdated is a loaded statement. I happen not to think that things are outdated.

also, "goyim" is plural. The singular "goy" strictly speaking means "nation" . The word has developed and has other dimensions of meaning now, but goy is still the singular.

 

[Saigon]

Rosends -

Thanks for your excellent answers!

I definitely agree that the stone throwing is limited to a very small number of people with very extreme views. No one I know throws stones!!

But in areas like Mea Sherim and Beit Shemesh there is a sinzeable hardcore of people with such extreme views towards not only driving on Shabbat but also towards women, that I feel Jewish leaders need to do more to contain them.

While they may only represent 1% of Jews, the attitudes are - to my mind - repugnant and very definitely outdated.

I feel religious authorities need to be clear about interpretations of the Talmud and ensure that actions such as throwing rocks at vehicles are discouraged.

 

[rosends]

Just one comment -- personally, I think that the behaviors towards women in those areas is not a proper expression of the religion I subscribe to. I think that much of the behavior is a remnant from other sociological forces, times and places, and not called for (to that degree) by the code of Jewish law. I also think that some of the leaders of these communities have developed localized practices which, though they are locally established norms, are frowned upon by more mainstream and authoritative voices.

 

[Saigon]

Rosends -

I totally agree with you.

And extremism is hardly a Jewish problem - it is something we see within every major religion. In each case I think other forces are often the key drivers - poverty, cultish adherence to a particular leader, paranoia or religious bigotry.

I believe people should be able to practice Judaism as they wish, but I'm becoming uncomfortable with stories from places like Beit Shemesh about violence, and feel Israeli and Jewish leaders need to speak out more.

 

[rosends]

Rosends -

I totally agree with you.

And extremism is hardly a Jewish problem - it is something we see within every major religion. In each case I think other forces are often the key drivers - poverty, cultish adherence to a particular leader, paranoia or religious bigotry.

I believe people should be able to practice Judaism as they wish, but I'm becoming uncomfortable with stories from places like Beit Shemesh about violence, and feel Israeli and Jewish leaders need to speak out more.

take a quick look at this response Excellent Article in Tablet About Modesty and Contemporary Orthodox Judaism and to the article which it is responding to
How Much Modesty Will Ever Be Enough for Orthodox Girls? – Tablet Magazine

 

[BreezeWood]

is there a distinction for Mankind in the Garden ?

 

[rosends]

is there a distinction for Mankind in the Garden ?

Sorry, I'm not quite clear on what you are asking.

 

[BreezeWood]

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

And let them have dominion ...



the Tree of Forbidden Fruits -

our congregation believes the Judea / Christian Bible is Gods means of chronologicalizing in text form the Forbidden Fruits mankind has chosen as the cause for his dissent from the OuterWorld of the Everlasting -

as inadvertently being ascribed to God when in reality are the actual faults separating man from God.


do you believe correct, that after being expelled from the Garden of Eden - God would grant Domain to mankind over the Garden of Earth or that in fact God would grant any such thing as Domain for any purpose whatsoever -

in fact Domain in itself is a Forbidden Fruit only mankind would ascribe to himself as being a Forbidden Fruit that must be absolved for their to be the fulfillment of Gods commandment for Remission.

 

[amrchaos]

I have some questions(they are not consistent questions)

1)Has there ever been a prophecy in Judaic history that spoke of more than one event?

If so, can you recall them?

2)Do Jews believe in their Bible literally or metaphorically? (I am talking about the book that contians jewish/hebrewish history pre-AD)

3)By the way, what are all the books of Judaism. I heard of the Torah, the Talmud, and then there is something called the Tanneach(MSP) and after that I got confused on what was what!!

4)What are the fundemental differences in beliefs between Judaism and Christianity? We have had some "believers" on this thread that claim that Jews believe in Jesus Christ.Is that true, or do call such "Jews for Jesus" practitioners Christians?

5) I am not interested in becoming a Jew, but I do wish to gain an overview of what Jews believe and do not believe without relying on Christian and Islamic sources. Do you have any suggestions on what sources a non-jew(Is that term gentile) should read to gain a better(or in my case, clearer) view of what Judaism is, their beliefs and the philosophies that surrounds it?

Thanks!! Sorry about the questions within questions format.

 

[jillian]

Rosends -

Thanks for your excellent answers!

I definitely agree that the stone throwing is limited to a very small number of people with very extreme views. No one I know throws stones!!

But in areas like Mea Sherim and Beit Shemesh there is a sinzeable hardcore of people with such extreme views towards not only driving on Shabbat but also towards women, that I feel Jewish leaders need to do more to contain them.

While they may only represent 1% of Jews, the attitudes are - to my mind - repugnant and very definitely outdated.

I feel religious authorities need to be clear about interpretations of the Talmud and ensure that actions such as throwing rocks at vehicles are discouraged.

not a 'small number'... i have NEVER heard of anyone throwing stones at ambulances. emergency medical care is always a reason to act...whether on shabbat, on a holiday... or any time. so your premise is a lie.

there is no 1% of jews that would object to saving lives.

 

[rosends]

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

And let them have dominion ...



the Tree of Forbidden Fruits -

our congregation believes the Judea / Christian Bible is Gods means of chronologicalizing in text form the Forbidden Fruits mankind has chosen as the cause for his dissent from the OuterWorld of the Everlasting -

as inadvertently being ascribed to God when in reality are the actual faults separating man from God.


do you believe correct, that after being expelled from the Garden of Eden - God would grant Domain to mankind over the Garden of Earth or that in fact God would grant any such thing as Domain for any purpose whatsoever -

in fact Domain in itself is a Forbidden Fruit only mankind would ascribe to himself as being a Forbidden Fruit that must be absolved for their to be the fulfillment of Gods commandment for Remission.

I am still not sure exactly what you are getting at -- man has certain types of dominion over the world and the animals. We get to eat some of them and use them for work etc. We also have some power over land, itself. But this "dominion" is tempered by law -- it is not absolute (and I suspect it was never meant to be).

 

[Swagger]

Rosends -

Thanks for your excellent answers!

I definitely agree that the stone throwing is limited to a very small number of people with very extreme views. No one I know throws stones!!

But in areas like Mea Sherim and Beit Shemesh there is a sinzeable hardcore of people with such extreme views towards not only driving on Shabbat but also towards women, that I feel Jewish leaders need to do more to contain them.

While they may only represent 1% of Jews, the attitudes are - to my mind - repugnant and very definitely outdated.

I feel religious authorities need to be clear about interpretations of the Talmud and ensure that actions such as throwing rocks at vehicles are discouraged.

not a 'small number'... i have NEVER heard of anyone throwing stones at ambulances. emergency medical care is always a reason to act...whether on shabbat, on a holiday... or any time. so your premise is a lie.

there is no 1% of jews that would object to saving lives.

Neither have I. There are Jewish ambulance corps in almost every major city in Europe that are on standby 24/7. And the Jewish communities that fund them would come down very hard on any Jews who attacked or interfered with them.

 

[eflatminor]

If you have any questions about Judaism, feel free to ask.

Okay, I'll bite.

The Democratic party and American Liberals in general seem to me to be the most fervent opposition to all things Israeli. For that reason alone, I don't understand why Jews give them such strong support.

Perhaps more importantly are the lessons apparently not learned from Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and other centrally planned societies where Jews fared, shall we say...poorly, while in the decidedly less centralized American experiment, Jews THRIVED.

I'm continually flabbergasted by American Jews support of ever bigger government. Given how past big central governments treated Jews, one would think Jews today would be the most staunch limited government supporters out there but just the opposite is true.

So, my question is why does the Jewish community support the Liberal Democrats that seem to despise Israel and the idea of big government that nearly caused their annihilation?

 

[MHunterB]

Eflat - I think that's less of 'support', than finding the Republicans' Christofascist cheerleading very repellent. And there's the matter of official Republican extremism and hypocrisy on their 'pro-life' plank.

To the extent that the GOP represented the 'bluebloods' of the WASP establishment - well, that's who came up with those quotas in universities in decades past. The GOP now seems to more represnt the 'good ol' boys' wing of Protestant Christianity, which is STILL intent on dragging its faith into the public schools, etc.

And finally, American Jews do not ALL vote based on how they perceive the candidate perceiving Israel. We are Jews AND we are US citizens - and most of us are very much aware from our personal family history that we literally owe our lives to being American.

Mostly, I think Jews just vote the way everyone else does: based on their perception of which individuals are going to move this nation closer to what we as individuals regard as fulfilling the potential outlined in our Constitution.

 

[rosends]

I have some questions(they are not consistent questions)

1)Has there ever been a prophecy in Judaic history that spoke of more than one event?

If so, can you recall them?

The Jewish notion of "prophecy" is different from what you might expect -- it is not all about foretelling events. In fact, it is often simply the prophet channeling god's current message to the people. It would then only refer to what was happening or would happen if things didn't change. Even prophecy which we see as telling the future is not so clear. Often the prophecy is avoided (cf Jonah and the destruction of Ninveh). Also, often, the prophecy seems to refer to a specific event on the surface, and another event exegetically (or even homiletically). But when it is supposed to refer to a specific event, I cannot recall a situation where it referred to 2. I do know of cases where the commentators argue over WHICH event it is pointing to, as more than one seems to fit a pattern, but I haven't seen opinions which allow 2 reference points.

2)Do Jews believe in their Bible literally or metaphorically? (I am talking about the book that contians jewish/hebrewish history pre-AD)

The Jewish texts are understood within Orthodox Judaism as both literal and metaphorical. Yes, I believe there was a garden. Yes, i believe the Reed Sea split and Bil'am spoke to a donkey. But in Judaism, each idea has explanations on 4 levels and the simple/literal one is only the first.

3)By the way, what are all the books of Judaism. I heard of the Torah, the Talmud, and then there is something called the Tanneach(MSP) and after that I got confused on what was what!!

A primer of Jewish Books:
In Judaism, there is a belief that god gave Mo and the Jews 2 distinct sets of communication -- a written law, often called the 5 books of Moses, and an oral law which was passed down for generations until it was codified as the Mishna. The mishna had explanations and interpretations and they were written down as the gemara. Collectively, they form the talmud.

Aside from the 5 books (sometimes called the Torah) we have the selections of the prophets and the other writings. Together all 3 sections of written text make the Tanach (an acronym for the Hebrew names for the sections: torah, nevi'im, ketuvim). The entire of the written law is sometimes also called the Torah.

On both the oral and written torahs, there are myriad commentaries and complementary texts, from additional stories to explanatory works to codes of law.

4)What are the fundemental differences in beliefs between Judaism and Christianity? We have had some "believers" on this thread that claim that Jews believe in Jesus Christ.Is that true, or do call such "Jews for Jesus" practitioners Christians?

Jews for Jesus are, to be blunt, Christians. The J4J group is actually an offshoot of the Baptist church (unofficially). Judaism is distinct from any person or group which accepts that Jesus was, in any sense, a messianic figure. That's black letter. Anyone who says otherwise is doing a disservice to you, religion and the truth. Jews accept a variety of possibilities about Jesus -- everything from "he was a rabbi and a reformer" to "he was a political rabble rouser" to "he never existed" and everything in between. But Jews do not accept him as a prophet, as in Islam, or anything more than (maybe) a magician. That's a pretty large difference between religions.

5) I am not interested in becoming a Jew, but I do wish to gain an overview of what Jews believe and do not believe without relying on Christian and Islamic sources. Do you have any suggestions on what sources a non-jew(Is that term gentile) should read to gain a better(or in my case, clearer) view of what Judaism is, their beliefs and the philosophies that surrounds it?

One bet for an overview online is whatjewsbelieve.org but it focuses on messianic issues. A broad discussion is best gotten here Judaism 101 but you can also look at Judaism, Torah and Jewish Info - Chabad Lubavitch for some more in depth stuff.

And, though it pales in comparison, I'm around.

 

[MHunterB]

I have an equal distaste for Fascism and Communism: neither form of government has been safe for Jews (or other minority groups!)