Putin open to negotiations. What does this mean?

[frigidweirdo]

Perhaps Ukraine could compromise by withdrawing their request for NATO membership?

Why should the Ukraine compromise? If they do, then all the other nations that Putin feels he should control will have to compromise.... meaning Putin will realize that he can get away with this shit.

 

[alexa]

Zelensky offered to do that before the start of the war, and Putin ignored it while at the same time ranting and raving about keeping NATO out of Ukraine, and now it is clear that Putin cannot be trusted to keep the peace unless Ukraine is a member of NATO.

Is this not the attempted peace treaty that Boris stopped?

 

[alexa]

You underestimate the ability of our Military Industrial Complex to ramp up and replace equipment.

It is Putin who is unable to replace his expended equipment. He has sank to begging from N Korea and Iran

Well I am speaking from the UK. Equipment needs to be paid for and Boris could not stop spending every second he was awake giving more. In particular they were talking about air defenses as Germany has just supplied them with one which was for their own use. Other European countries have also felt they had to offer things which they themselves need for their own defense. Europe economically is in wipe out at the moment and the price of buying your gas does not help. So if people give to Ukraine now, they are likely giving what would have been for themselves and they are leaving themselves in a vulnerable position for attack. That is what could have been the BBC was saying today.

 

[alexa]

Why should the Ukraine compromise? If they do, then all the other nations that Putin feels he should control will have to compromise.... meaning Putin will realize that he can get away with this shit.

Ukraine would need to accept a neutral position because that is what this is all about. Secondly, we need something to deal with the other reason for this which was the problems and fighting in the East. This had been dealt with in the agreement which Boris told Zelensky he could not do. Both still need to be dealt with.

 

[ESay]

Well I think in the April one apart from all sort of fighting stopping there was no talk of annexing the Donbas etc. It had something about giving them some sort of autonomy but still as part of Ukraine. People are saying no one is going to win this and I think that is true so the longer it goes on the more everyone loses, the more destruction, the more loss of life, the more life changing injuries. He's not going to give up Crimea.

So, the question still stands. What be a compromise from Putin's part?

 

[ESay]

Well I think in the April one apart from all sort of fighting stopping there was no talk of annexing the Donbas etc. It had something about giving them some sort of autonomy but still as part of Ukraine. People are saying no one is going to win this and I think that is true so the longer it goes on the more everyone loses, the more destruction, the more loss of life, the more life changing injuries. He's not going to give up Crimea.

They didn't want 'some sort' of autonomy. If you had followed the Minsk process more closely, you would know they wanted to be a quasi-independent entities with a say on Ukraine's domestic and foreign policy.

 

[toomuchtime_]

There are territorial disputes between the two nations. A large number of Ukraine nationals are actually ethnic Russians. In the 1950's, if you'll remember, Ukrainian Strongman Nikita Khrushchev seized large sections of the Russian Federation and annexed them to the Ukrainian SSR.

All of this is irrelevant. In 1991 the USSR defined the borders of Ukraine and in 1994 in the Budapest Memorandum, Russia pledged to never violate the borders of Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine turning over its nuclear arsenal, the third largest in the world, to Russia.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Is this not the attempted peace treaty that Boris stopped?

No, it was Putin who rejected it.

 

[gipper]

Why should the Ukraine compromise? If they do, then all the other nations that Putin feels he should control will have to compromise.... meaning Putin will realize that he can get away with this shit.

To stop the killing. I know that’s a hard concept for American chicken hawks to understand.

 

[alexa]

So, the question still stands. What be a compromise from Putin's part?

The compromise is clearly not annexing them and leaving you in peace. You have to sort that. You had a civil war going on. These people do not have the same rights as Western Ukrainers or Ukraine speakers and having people in a country who have different rights just does not work with Democracy a system where all people have an equal voice so unless you can change that, it would seem essential that they have some autonomy as the agreement which Zelensky made earlier said. I do not see it just as Ukraine innocent and Russia the big bully. I believe there are genuine problems which need genuine solutions. Lots more can be added into any peace treaty. It does not need to hurt. The chance of that working is not strong. You need to look at sorting the problems which hopefully would lead to something which both think they have gained from. You are not going to get Russia to give up Crimea so for the mean time you could agree on a cease fire. Other ways in which you gain is ending war, ending the destruction which I hear my grandchildren will be paying for all their lives. Ending the killing and loss of lives as well as the destruction such actions cause emotionally and morally and, and this I do not know it is for the future to say but end the possibility of Putin taking all land on the East and the south including Odessa which would leave Ukraine landlocked. Russia has hypersonic weapons which it has not used yet. People in other parts of the world are dying because of what is going on in Ukraine, in particular from famine in Africa. Just about all work on saving the climate has stopped. It is a serious world wide problem destroying everyone financially - how the markets work I do not know but I hear that is so. It has to be solved and that begins with negotiations which Ukraine is refusing to take part in.

 

[alexa]

No, it was Putin who rejected it.

Putin didn't reject the peace treaty which Russia and Ukraine had made. That was Boris so what are you talking about?

 

[gipper]

toomuchtime_

They didn't want 'some sort' of autonomy. If you had followed the Minsk process more closely, you would know they wanted to be a quasi-independent entities with a say on Ukraine's domestic and foreign policy.

We need to stomp the warmongers hard. Maybe the anti-war movement is reawakening and with any luck, will kick the shit out of the pro-war dumb fucks.

 

[gipper]

Putin didn't reject the peace treaty which Russia and Ukraine had made. That was Boris so what are you talking about?

You’re wasting your time. He’s a Raytheon pro-war bot.

 

[alexa]

They didn't want 'some sort' of autonomy. If you had followed the Minsk process more closely, you would know they wanted to be a quasi-independent entities with a say on Ukraine's domestic and foreign policy.

and that as I said in a previous post is what is necessary. You cannot have it both ways. You either give all of your citizens equal rights or you need to give those who you have given lesser rights autonomy or give the land over to Russia if you prefer. You cannot have a democracy where you give some citizens less rights than others, Zelensky agreed to this in April.

 

[gipper]

and that as I said in a previous post is what is necessary. You cannot have it both ways. You either give all of your citizens equal rights or they need to give those who you have given lesser rights to autonomy or give the land over to Russia if you prefer. You cannot have a democracy where you give some citizens less rights than others, Zelensky agreed to this in April.

Again you’re wasting your time. He’s a fanatical Ukrainian warmonger.Probably a Nazi.

 

[Ringo]

Hungarian Prime Minister Orban: "A truce should be concluded not between Russia and Ukraine, but between the United States and Russia. Anyone who thinks that this war will be completed through Russian-Ukrainian negotiations does not live in this world, "
Unfortunately, the United States does not need any peace.

 

[ESay]

and that as I said in a previous post is what is necessary. You cannot have it both ways. You either give all of your citizens equal rights or they need to give those who you have given lesser rights to autonomy or give the land over to Russia if you prefer. You cannot have a democracy where you give some citizens less rights than others, Zelensky agreed to this in April.

I don't know what they agreed upon in April, and I think you don't either. It wasn't written in detail even in Russian news outlets. If new negotiations is getting to start, they should be made public as much as possible.

About the territories. I agree on a territorial swap, when Russia leaves the occupied parts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts and Ukraine recognizes the Crimea and Donbas as Russian.

I reject Ukraine's neutrality. Ukraine should be a member of the EU and NATO. Though, I admit that joining NATO can be followed by some provisions that forbid setting up foreign military bases and locating some military hardware.

About so-called anti-democratic laws (about political parties, national minorities and language, education), I am in favour of these laws being rewritten by experts of the Venice Commission and put into Ukrainian law as a part of political reforms in the line of joining the EU.

 

[alexa]

error

I don't know what they agreed upon in April, and I think you don't either. It wasn't written in detail even in Russian news outlets. If new negotiations is getting to start, they should be made public as much as possible.

I have just heard people speaking about it. What you added " they wanted to be a quasi-independent entities with a say on Ukraine's domestic and foreign policy." that sounded like a workable solution. You are needing things which work and you will not be happy with everything. Unfortunately that is the compromise of negotiations.

About the territories. I agree on a territorial swap, when Russia leaves the occupied parts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts and Ukraine recognizes the Crimea and Donbas as Russian.

so that sounds like something positive which could be discussed in negotiations.

I reject Ukraine's neutrality. Ukraine should be a member of the EU and NATO. Though, I admit that joining NATO can be followed by some provisions that forbid setting up foreign military bases and locating some military hardware.

Especially with what has been going on and how all of NATO's resources have been used on Ukraine leaving European countries without some of their own needs and massive bills to pay, I don't think you should be in NATO. NATO is not supposed to take on people who already have problems with their neighbours and that certainly is you. In addition people are saying that this is probably the US 'Suez', that is like the British there, the place where they lose their Imperial position. It is time to start working for peace not war. Time for NATO to end and that has certainly made this clear to me. The total destruction done not for a member of NATO but NATO using another country to try and bring a rival down and in so doing bringing us to the brink of nuclear war. Brics will also be leaving the Dollar. Both Russia and China have been working on having gold backing up their currency. They certainly are not stupid. The US is going to be a far poorer country and I this could be NATO's Suez as well.

About so-called anti-democratic laws (about political parties, national minorities and language, education), I am in favour of these laws being rewritten by experts of the Venice Commission and put into Ukrainian law as a part of political reforms in the line of joining the EU.

Well hopefully the EU would insist but after it has allowed both Poland and Hungary to stay in while they have moved in an obvious way away from Democracy, is the EU going to still be there after this? No one knows.

 

[gipper]

I don't know what they agreed upon in April, and I think you don't either. It wasn't written in detail even in Russian news outlets. If new negotiations is getting to start, they should be made public as much as possible.

About the territories. I agree on a territorial swap, when Russia leaves the occupied parts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts and Ukraine recognizes the Crimea and Donbas as Russian.

I reject Ukraine's neutrality. Ukraine should be a member of the EU and NATO. Though, I admit that joining NATO can be followed by some provisions that forbid setting up foreign military bases and locating some military hardware.

About so-called anti-democratic laws (about political parties, national minorities and language, education), I am in favour of these laws being rewritten by experts of the Venice Commission and put into Ukrainian law as a part of political reforms in the line of joining the EU.

Unknowingly and ignorantly wishing for WWIII and nuclear holocaust.

Can’t fix stupid.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Putin didn't reject the peace treaty which Russia and Ukraine had made. That was Boris so what are you talking about?

Having a particularly crazy day today? There was no peace treaty. Zelensky offered to withdraw Ukraine's application to NATO and Putin ignored the offer.