Protesters Carrying Rifle Outside Obama Rally

[Vanquish]

Ok, I'll bite.

The US Patriot act brought abrogation of due process. The grounds you speak of are the same grounds for damages whenever due process is violated.

It's the end justifies the means all over again. "OMGZ!! Tehroritzs could kill, so letz hold them with no charges." Jack Bauer is great on 24, but it's really surprising when people get held with no charges, no trial, no counsel, for indefinite periods in complete contradiction to the Constitution.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yes, I agree, the law abiding citizens, there to supposedly just display their rights might be doing just that, voicing an opinion...but why this day, why in front of the president....?

Doing this, puts the president at a huge RISK....not from the law abiding ones, but the law abiding ones GIVE GOOD COVER for an assassin that does want to kill him....

THIS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED....it could be very harmful to our president and it clearly is not a safe situation for him....and makes it ten times harder for for the secret service to keep our president safe from a looney tune assassin.

Can;t you all understand something as simple as that....?

Why not this day, why not in front of the President?

It should and is allowed under the Constitution of the United States of America. What you want to go and change the constitution? You want to trample on the rights of a law abiding citizen? Just because you may not like guns and would never have the courage to exercise your right to bear arms, doesn't mean is shouldn't be done.

 

[cunclusion]

Thing is when people do things like this they actually help make an argument for gun control. One gun is at home in a locked box key is with me the other is in my car, I dont have to carry it everywhere I go. I am not worried about my 2nd Amendment rights but when I see people do idiotic things, it makes me start to rethink guns. If an dummy can carry one around the president should I start looking around at my kids flag football games, or at a block party. That means I have to carry my gun too then because I dont trust no damn body carrying a gun around my family. If there is no imminent danger, there is no need.

 

[Gudrid]

Show me a copy of Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress and then I might beleive you.

OK. Here's his first state of the union address.

State of the Union
George Washington
January 8, 1790
Federal Hall, New York City

Fellow Citizens of the Senate and House of Representatives:

I embrace with great satisfaction the opportunity which now presents itself of congratulating you on the present favorable prospects of our public affairs. The recent accession of the important state of north Carolina to the Constitution of the United States (of which official information has been received), the rising credit and respectability of our country, the general and increasing good will toward the government of the Union, and the concord, peace, and plenty with which we are blessed are circumstances auspicious in an eminent degree to our national prosperity.

In resuming your consultations for the general good you can not but derive encouragement from the reflection that the measures of the last session have been as satisfactory to your constituents as the novelty and difficulty of the work allowed you to hope. Still further to realize their expectations and to secure the blessings which a gracious Providence has placed within our reach will in the course of the present important session call for the cool and deliberate exertion of your patriotism, firmness, and wisdom.

Among the many interesting objects which will engage your attention that of providing for the common defense will merit particular regard. To be prepared for war is on e of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.

The proper establishment of the troops which may be deemed indispensable will be entitled to mature consideration. In the arrangements which may be made respecting it it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the officers and soldiers with a due regard to economy.

There was reason to hope that the pacific measures adopted with regard to certain hostile tribes of Indians would have relieved the inhabitants of our southern and western frontiers from their depredations, but you will perceive from the information contained in the papers which I shall direct to be laid before you (comprehending a communication from the Commonwealth of Virginia) that we ought to be prepared to afford protection to those parts of the Union, and, if necessary, to punish aggressors.

The interests of the United States require that our intercourse with other nations should be facilitated by such provisions as will enable me to fulfill my duty in that respect in the manner which circumstances may render most conducive to the public good, and to this end that the compensation to be made to the persons who may be employed should, according to the nature of their appointments, be defined by law, and a competent fund designated for defraying the expenses incident to the conduct of foreign affairs.

Various considerations also render it expedient that the terms on which foreigners may be admitted to the rights of citizens should be speedily ascertained by a uniform rule of naturalization.

Uniformity in the currency, weights, and measures of the United States is an object of great importance, and will, I am persuaded, be duly attended to.

The advancement of agriculture, commerce, and manufactures by all proper means will not, I trust, need recommendation; but I can not forbear intimating to you the expediency of giving effectual encouragement as well to the introduction of new and useful inventions from abroad as to the exertions of skill and genius in producing them at home, and of facilitating the intercourse between the distant parts of our country by a due attention to the post-office and post-roads.

Nor am I less persuaded that you will agree with me in opinion that there is nothing which can better deserve your patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness. In one in which the measures of government receive their impressions so immediately from the sense of the community as in ours it is proportionably essential.

To the security of a free constitution it contributes in various ways - by convincing those who are intrusted with the public administration that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people, and by teaching the people themselves to know and to value their own rights; to discern and provide against invasions of them; to distinguish between oppression and the necessary exercise of lawful authority; between burthens proceeding from a disregard to their convenience and those resulting from the inevitable exigencies of society; to discriminate the spirit of liberty from that of licentiousness - cherishing the first, avoiding the last - and uniting a speedy but temperate vigilance against encroachments, with an inviolable respect to the laws.

Whether this desirable object will be best promoted by affording aids to seminaries of learning already established, by the institution of a national university, or by any other expedients will be well worthy of a place in the deliberations of the legislature.

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:

I saw with peculiar pleasure at the close of the last session the resolution entered into by you expressive of your opinion that an adequate provision for the support of the public credit is a matter of high importance to the national honor and prosperity. In this sentiment I entirely concur; and to a perfect confidence in your best endeavors to devise such a provision as will be truly with the end I add an equal reliance on the cheerful cooperation of the other branch of the legislature.

It would be superfluous to specify inducements to a measure in which the character and interests of the United States are so obviously so deeply concerned, and which has received so explicit a sanction from your declaration.

Gentlemen of the Senate and House of Representatives:

I have directed the proper officers to lay before you, respectively, such papers and estimates as regard the affairs particularly recommended to your consideration, and necessary to convey to you that information of the state of the Union which it is my duty to afford.

The welfare of our country is the great object to which our cares and efforts ought to be directed, and I shall derive great satisfaction from a cooperation with you in the pleasing though arduous task of insuring to our fellow citizens the blessings which they have a right to expect from a free, efficient, and equal government.

It's not in there. Though I did get a giggle over the push for science and art grants.


You can find his first inaugural address here: George Washington's First Inaugural Address - 1789

It's not in there either.

 

[Immanuel]

Why not this day, why not in front of the President?

It should and is allowed under the Constitution of the United States of America.

I agree it should be allowed. That doesn't mean that the actions should be taken. Responsible adults do not act in such a manner.

Immie

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I think it was an implied threat, really no different than bringing a noose to such an event.

Immie

I think those that have a problem with it are just being paranoid.

Maybe so, but I see it as a threat to the President and something that I view as uncalled for. And paranoid is not the right word for it. I have a problem with it. Paranoid, means being afraid that everyone is out to get the paranoid person. I'm not worried they are out to get me. But, I understand what you mean. I just think this is the wrong message to send in America. It is something that seems like it would come from the citizens of Iraq or Afghanistan.

Immie

No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776.

The last, most important check on government abuse of individual rights is an armed populace. A written constitution requires somebody to enforce it. Any mechanism built into the government, such as Checks and Balances, can be eventually bypassed by a determined government. Ultimately, the only thing that can prevent the use of force is the threat or use of greater force. To this end, the people are the ultimate check on government.

Only an armed population has the ability to overthrow a tyrannical government. Governments are well aware of this. In every dictatorship, ownership of guns is outlawed to the general populace. Before the Nazis went about exterminating their Jewish population, they needed to disarm them first. A state treads carefully when the citizens are armed.

 

[Gudrid]

I think they simply wanted to exercise their constitutional right. I would think that if a person had any plans of assassinating anyone, they wouldn't be openly displaying their weapon.

I think it was an implied threat, really no different than bringing a noose to such an event.

Immie

I think those that have a problem with it are just being paranoid.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who supports the individual right to bear arms more strongly than I do, but that doesn't mean I support ever idiot who decides to exercise that right in a manner that clearly shows he has small dick issues. There was zero reason to show up with a gun other than as an implied threat. It was maturity on the level of an 11 year old boy. Which seems to be where many people opt to stop their emotional growth for some reason.

Remember - just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you SHOULD do a thing.

 

[del]

Gotta remmeber ta bring ma shooin iron next time!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAH!

lol ...

I was just thinking, "You what will calm these people down? Alcohol."

speaking of really bad ideas....

Restaurant owners' plea fails to stop Tennessee's guns-in-bars law // Current

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Show me a copy of Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress and then I might beleive you.

OK. Here's his first state of the union address.

State of the Union
George Washington
January 8, 1790
Federal Hall, New York City

Fellow Citizens of the Senate and House of Representatives:

I embrace with great satisfaction the opportunity which now presents itself of congratulating you on the present favorable prospects of our public affairs. The recent accession of the important state of north Carolina to the Constitution of the United States (of which official information has been received), the rising credit and respectability of our country, the general and increasing good will toward the government of the Union, and the concord, peace, and plenty with which we are blessed are circumstances auspicious in an eminent degree to our national prosperity.

In resuming your consultations for the general good you can not but derive encouragement from the reflection that the measures of the last session have been as satisfactory to your constituents as the novelty and difficulty of the work allowed you to hope. Still further to realize their expectations and to secure the blessings which a gracious Providence has placed within our reach will in the course of the present important session call for the cool and deliberate exertion of your patriotism, firmness, and wisdom.

Among the many interesting objects which will engage your attention that of providing for the common defense will merit particular regard. To be prepared for war is on e of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.

The proper establishment of the troops which may be deemed indispensable will be entitled to mature consideration. In the arrangements which may be made respecting it it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the officers and soldiers with a due regard to economy.

There was reason to hope that the pacific measures adopted with regard to certain hostile tribes of Indians would have relieved the inhabitants of our southern and western frontiers from their depredations, but you will perceive from the information contained in the papers which I shall direct to be laid before you (comprehending a communication from the Commonwealth of Virginia) that we ought to be prepared to afford protection to those parts of the Union, and, if necessary, to punish aggressors.

The interests of the United States require that our intercourse with other nations should be facilitated by such provisions as will enable me to fulfill my duty in that respect in the manner which circumstances may render most conducive to the public good, and to this end that the compensation to be made to the persons who may be employed should, according to the nature of their appointments, be defined by law, and a competent fund designated for defraying the expenses incident to the conduct of foreign affairs.

Various considerations also render it expedient that the terms on which foreigners may be admitted to the rights of citizens should be speedily ascertained by a uniform rule of naturalization.

Uniformity in the currency, weights, and measures of the United States is an object of great importance, and will, I am persuaded, be duly attended to.

The advancement of agriculture, commerce, and manufactures by all proper means will not, I trust, need recommendation; but I can not forbear intimating to you the expediency of giving effectual encouragement as well to the introduction of new and useful inventions from abroad as to the exertions of skill and genius in producing them at home, and of facilitating the intercourse between the distant parts of our country by a due attention to the post-office and post-roads.

Nor am I less persuaded that you will agree with me in opinion that there is nothing which can better deserve your patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness. In one in which the measures of government receive their impressions so immediately from the sense of the community as in ours it is proportionably essential.

To the security of a free constitution it contributes in various ways - by convincing those who are intrusted with the public administration that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people, and by teaching the people themselves to know and to value their own rights; to discern and provide against invasions of them; to distinguish between oppression and the necessary exercise of lawful authority; between burthens proceeding from a disregard to their convenience and those resulting from the inevitable exigencies of society; to discriminate the spirit of liberty from that of licentiousness - cherishing the first, avoiding the last - and uniting a speedy but temperate vigilance against encroachments, with an inviolable respect to the laws.

Whether this desirable object will be best promoted by affording aids to seminaries of learning already established, by the institution of a national university, or by any other expedients will be well worthy of a place in the deliberations of the legislature.

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:

I saw with peculiar pleasure at the close of the last session the resolution entered into by you expressive of your opinion that an adequate provision for the support of the public credit is a matter of high importance to the national honor and prosperity. In this sentiment I entirely concur; and to a perfect confidence in your best endeavors to devise such a provision as will be truly with the end I add an equal reliance on the cheerful cooperation of the other branch of the legislature.

It would be superfluous to specify inducements to a measure in which the character and interests of the United States are so obviously so deeply concerned, and which has received so explicit a sanction from your declaration.

Gentlemen of the Senate and House of Representatives:

I have directed the proper officers to lay before you, respectively, such papers and estimates as regard the affairs particularly recommended to your consideration, and necessary to convey to you that information of the state of the Union which it is my duty to afford.

The welfare of our country is the great object to which our cares and efforts ought to be directed, and I shall derive great satisfaction from a cooperation with you in the pleasing though arduous task of insuring to our fellow citizens the blessings which they have a right to expect from a free, efficient, and equal government.

It's not in there. Though I did get a giggle over the push for science and art grants.


You can find his first inaugural address here: George Washington's First Inaugural Address - 1789

It's not in there either.

Nice, But it's not Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Why not this day, why not in front of the President?

It should and is allowed under the Constitution of the United States of America.

I agree it should be allowed. That doesn't mean that the actions should be taken. Responsible adults do not act in such a manner.

Immie

Obviously they do.

 

[DiamondDave]

I think it was an implied threat, really no different than bringing a noose to such an event.

Immie

I think those that have a problem with it are just being paranoid.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who supports the individual right to bear arms more strongly than I do, but that doesn't mean I support ever idiot who decides to exercise that right in a manner that clearly shows he has small dick issues. There was zero reason to show up with a gun other than as an implied threat. It was maturity on the level of an 11 year old boy. Which seems to be where many people opt to stop their emotional growth for some reason.

Remember - just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you SHOULD do a thing.

It is not unconstitutional nor illegal to be immature, unpopular, or in possession of an idea/action that could be frowned upon

 

[Ravi]

I think it was an implied threat, really no different than bringing a noose to such an event.

Immie

I think those that have a problem with it are just being paranoid.

Maybe so, but I see it as a threat to the President and something that I view as uncalled for. And paranoid is not the right word for it. I have a problem with it. Paranoid, means being afraid that everyone is out to get the paranoid person. I'm not worried they are out to get me. But, I understand what you mean. I just think this is the wrong message to send in America. It is something that seems like it would come from the citizens of Iraq or Afghanistan.

Immie

I don't see it so much as a threat against the President...I think it is more to intimidate anyone that supports health care reform including any politicians and the general public.

And while I have no problem with people expressing their second amendment rights I have a problem with being the subject of intimidation. Civil rights shouldn't be used to deprive others of their civil rights.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I think it was an implied threat, really no different than bringing a noose to such an event.

Immie

I think those that have a problem with it are just being paranoid.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who supports the individual right to bear arms more strongly than I do, but that doesn't mean I support ever idiot who decides to exercise that right in a manner that clearly shows he has small dick issues. There was zero reason to show up with a gun other than as an implied threat. It was maturity on the level of an 11 year old boy. Which seems to be where many people opt to stop their emotional growth for some reason.

Remember - just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you SHOULD do a thing.

They suffer from "small dick issues"? And you have evidence to that effect? The reason, as I've stated is perfectly clear. They wanted to exercise their Constitutional right. Just because YOU wouldn't do such a thing doesn't mean everyone shouldn't do it. You're wanting force your will on someone else and that's trampling on their constitutional right. Again what evidence do you have of their maturity level?

 

[Ravi]

My bad. Apparently it is a direct threat against Obama, according to this video posted by the guy with the semi-automatic.
Man With Assault Rifle Outside Obama Event: 'Taxation Is Theft' | LiveWire

 

[HUGGY]

why, where is it a law you cant carry them?

they also shouldnt be complaining when the secret service is all up their ass checking them out

It's perfectly legal.

And stupid.

And counterproductive.

The latter two being MO of course.

well, i sure wouldnt want the secret service giving me a public rectal exam
LOL

Can we pleez vote on that?

 

[Newby]

I think what's escaping most of the people in this thread is that just because it's legal, doesn't mean it's morally right or even safe.

Morals don't come into play, the law is what comes into play here. I could say the exact same thing about abortion, yet I would guess that you'd be on the other side of the line there along with alot of other libs. I love how the left uses morals whenever it is convenient to do so for their cause, yet screams at the top of their lungs whenever they feel they're being forced to another's moral point of view via the law that they disagree with.

 

[Gudrid]

It is not unconstitutional nor illegal to be immature, unpopular, or in possession of an idea/action that could be frowned upon

I didn't say it was unconstitutional or illegal. I said it was stupid. Ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf? Same thing.

You're wanting force your will on someone else and that's trampling on their constitutional right.

Interesting reading. Now show me what I've said along those lines.

Again what evidence do you have of their maturity level?

This part of the article for one: "The man with the rifle declined to be identified..."

Pathetic. Protest like a man, or be consigned to the "small dick issues" label as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Gudrid]

Nice, But it's not Washington's Address to 1st session of Congress.

I posted his first state of the union and a link to his first inaugural address to congress. To what are you referring?

 

[Immanuel]

Why not this day, why not in front of the President?

It should and is allowed under the Constitution of the United States of America.

I agree it should be allowed. That doesn't mean that the actions should be taken. Responsible adults do not act in such a manner.

Immie

Obviously they do.

Whether these people are responsible adults or not is a matter of opinion and one that you and I obviously do not share.

Immie

 

[Tech_Esq]

I think those that have a problem with it are just being paranoid.

Maybe so, but I see it as a threat to the President and something that I view as uncalled for. And paranoid is not the right word for it. I have a problem with it. Paranoid, means being afraid that everyone is out to get the paranoid person. I'm not worried they are out to get me. But, I understand what you mean. I just think this is the wrong message to send in America. It is something that seems like it would come from the citizens of Iraq or Afghanistan.

Immie

I don't see it so much as a threat against the President...I think it is more to intimidate anyone that supports health care reform including any politicians and the general public.

And while I have no problem with people expressing their second amendment rights I have a problem with being the subject of intimidation. Civil rights shouldn't be used to deprive others of their civil rights.

I didn't hear any reports that anyone brandished their weapon, let alone discharged it. I didn't hear any reports that anyone armed with a firearm accosted anyone at the event. I don't understand where you get the intimidation factor.

While I'm pretty sure I won't be bringing my M-14 to any political events, if it's legal to do so and nobody misused their weapons or used their rights to miscarry justice (brought a weapon legally, then misused it), I don't see the problem with it.

I think there is a symbolic message contained in the fact that armed people are showing up at political rallies. I think it should be sending a sending a message to politicians that they are threading on ground that could incite a revolt. That people are seeing a government exceeding its charter to such an extent, that they may be willing to become more than politically active; to become that final check on tyrannical government.

I must say, I am surprised that we have arrived here so quickly, but it's good warning sign that the pols should heed and curtail their efforts at instituting greater controls over people's lives. However, I think the pols are too avaricious to heed any such warning and will plow ahead undaunted.