Pro-choicers like abortion and wont admit it

[Againsheila]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

I guess I'm pro-choice. I think abortion is wrong and never should be used as a means of birth control. But when a woman is raped, she shouldn't have to carry that child to term. Also, before I had my two autistic children, my husband and I discussed it and decided that if our children were to have birth defects, we'd abort them. Well guess what....too late. I also know of a woman that had a late term abortion. The baby had 1/2 a brain and if they didn't abort, she never would be able to have had kids again. They now have a healthy 7 year old boy who wouldn't be here if she's carried that baby to term.

So yes, I'm pro-choice, but I also think women should not be able to have abortion after abortion. Anybody can make a mistake once, but the second time, they should be sterilized.

Also, I think science is about at the point where if you don't want the fetus and someone else does, it can be implanted into another body, I think that should be a choice before abortion. Let someone else carry the baby to term and raise that child. Some sort of fetus adoption or something. Why kill a perfectly healthy fetus when so many people want children and can't have them?

Of course, I know women that would rather kill their fetuses than let someone else have them. To me, that's murder, not abortion. It's the same as the women in India who kill their baby girls rather than give them up for adoption because they are afraid their children wouldn't be raised to know "their" God.

 

[Article 15]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

This OP is nothing but a steaming pile of shit.

I'm fine with the procedure and all that comes with it. So what? If a woman choses to get the procedure done that is her decision to live with and I support her right to make that decision. It doesn't mean that I "like" abortion. What the fuck does that even mean anyway?

 

[Neser Boha]

So yes, I'm pro-choice, but I also think women should not be able to have abortion after abortion. Anybody can make a mistake once, but the second time, they should be sterilized.

Huh?

That was some convoluted shit all in all, but that quote by itself is simply ... out of this world.

 

[Luissa]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

This OP is nothing but a steaming pile of shit.

I'm fine with the procedure and all that comes with it. So what? If a woman choses to get the procedure done that is her decision to live with and I support her right to make that decision. It doesn't mean that I "like" abortion. What the fuck does that even mean anyway?

We are all baby killers, don't ya know?

 

[Neser Boha]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

This OP is nothing but a steaming pile of shit.

I'm fine with the procedure and all that comes with it. So what? If a woman choses to get the procedure done that is her decision to live with and I support her right to make that decision. It doesn't mean that I "like" abortion. What the fuck does that even mean anyway?

We are all baby killers, don't ya know?

Of course ... we revel in killing fetuses ...

 

[Toronado3800]

I'm pro-choice as part of my belief in small government. My scientific or religious belief on when life starts can not be forced on others as neither should my belief on euthanasia be forced on you.

Thanks to our limited number of political parties the pro-life folks have a strange "partner" in the Republican Party which has done virtually nothing for them over the last 28 years.

The initial post is further proof one of the most difficult tasks in life is to understand points of views opposite of your own.

 

[Luissa]

This OP is nothing but a steaming pile of shit.

I'm fine with the procedure and all that comes with it. So what? If a woman choses to get the procedure done that is her decision to live with and I support her right to make that decision. It doesn't mean that I "like" abortion. What the fuck does that even mean anyway?

We are all baby killers, don't ya know?

Of course ... we revel in killing fetuses ...

And he is on to us, we must come up with a new game plan.

 

[bodecea]

They love abortion it is part of their religion a sanitized version of child sacrifice to appease their false gods and insure prosperity...it has been going on forever

Yeah...go with that.

 

[xsited1]

I donate to Planned Parenthood as long they abort black babies. Harry Reid approves.

Report: Planned Parenthood Apologizes for Encouraging Donation Aimed at Aborting Black Babies - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

 

[sealybobo]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

I guess I'm pro-choice. I think abortion is wrong and never should be used as a means of birth control. But when a woman is raped, she shouldn't have to carry that child to term. Also, before I had my two autistic children, my husband and I discussed it and decided that if our children were to have birth defects, we'd abort them. Well guess what....too late. I also know of a woman that had a late term abortion. The baby had 1/2 a brain and if they didn't abort, she never would be able to have had kids again. They now have a healthy 7 year old boy who wouldn't be here if she's carried that baby to term.

So yes, I'm pro-choice, but I also think women should not be able to have abortion after abortion. Anybody can make a mistake once, but the second time, they should be sterilized.

Also, I think science is about at the point where if you don't want the fetus and someone else does, it can be implanted into another body, I think that should be a choice before abortion. Let someone else carry the baby to term and raise that child. Some sort of fetus adoption or something. Why kill a perfectly healthy fetus when so many people want children and can't have them?

Of course, I know women that would rather kill their fetuses than let someone else have them. To me, that's murder, not abortion. It's the same as the women in India who kill their baby girls rather than give them up for adoption because they are afraid their children wouldn't be raised to know "their" God.

Not "IF SHE'S RAPED". She should have the right within a certain amount of time for whatever reason she wants. Lets say, within the first month, or trimester.

And late term? Thats between the woman and her doctor. Unless you want to pay for raising a severely retarded person their entire lives. Because that person and his/her parents will absolutely go on government social security/medicare/medicade/welfare because it isn't cheap taking care of a handicapped person. Not only does the retarded person get benefits, the parents get money from the government as "primary care givers".

Or if it means the life of the woman...The decision should be left to the doctor and patient, not us.

A woman shouldn't have to go and lie and say she was raped.

Nixon said, "Of course I see there are times when abortion is necessary, like rape, or when a black and a white get pregnant".

Republicans want to stop welfare and ban abortion? Thats because they want to create a huge working poor class where wages are really low.

 

[eots]

They love abortion it is part of their religion a sanitized version of child sacrifice to appease their false gods and insure prosperity...it has been going on forever

Yeah...go with that.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMCk-L_V8oA&feature=related[/ame]

 

[jillian]

I've yet to encounter a woman who had an abortion and could be honest with herself and others about what she'd done.

why would they discuss it with you when you think its ok to guilt them about their decision? i'm figuring you wouldn't exactly be the go-to person for someone who wants to discuss that aspect of their lives.

 

[SGdsn]

Call me naive but I hardly think the goal of either side is to PROMOTE abortion. There are the scattered few that choose abortion as a means of birth control and I think they belong in the league of murders.

I HOPE (and maybe it's a pipe dream) that for most women the choice to abort would be the ONLY choice they see available for whatever reason at that time. I would imagine it is heartbreaking if not at that moment then later in their life. Even "Jane Roe" turned pro life later in her maturity.

Along with the need for sex education I think our country needs MAJOR reform to the adoption process. When did adoption become the "worst choice" in most unwanted pregnancies? Why is it easier for Americans to adopt abroad than in our own country? Why are irresponsible drug addicts and child abusers repeatedly returned custody of their innocent children?

I think you touched on an important point. I wish more women who regret having an abortion would speak out against it.

Shouldn't it be a womans decision? Whether she regrets it or not?

I don't believe a woman should have the right to kill her unborn child for any reason she chooses. So no, it shouldn't, to an extent.

 

[SGdsn]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. .

I've come to the realization that anti abortionists have a hidden agenda : the imposition of their victorian sexual views on the rest of us.

They never offer the putative mothers to adopt their offsprings. The typical anti-abotionist is old, ugly and not having sex.

.

The only difference is, my impression of pro-choicers is correct, and yours is bullshit, unless you are whorish enough to believe something simple like "don't have sex if you don't want to have a child you can't take care of" is imposing Victorian sexual views on people.

 

[SGdsn]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

I could as well be arguing that 'pro-lifers' are not actually pro-life as they obviously do not give a flying fuck about the potential mother's life and free will - as they do not acknowledge her right to do as she wishes with her body and her life. I could actually go as far as to say that I consider them anti-liberty, anti-personal freedom.

No, you actually couldn't argue that, considering pro-lifers don't think a woman should have to die to maintain her pregnancy, and while they don't believe in you having the free will to kill your unborn child, they do believe you should have (and *gasp* do have) the free will to not create an unborn child in the first place.

What now? Where does that put us? In the midst of yet another tired abortion debate? Let's just swallow the fact we all have different opinions and our differing opinions should have no impact whatsoever on the lives of those that don't share them. If you are anti-abortion, don't have an abortion. If you don't want that 16-year-old living down the road having abortion, offer her to adopt her baby or pay its way through college.

Howgh.

Well, if you're acknowledging you can't have an intellectually honest debate because you can't stand the idea of being on the bottom rung morally speaking, then yeah I guess you're right.

Also, I don't know why pro-choicers think they're saying something profound when they mention that pro-lifers aren't lining up to take care of these kids who would otherwise be aborted. Yeah, because it's totally our responsibility to make sure you're perfectly comfortable and feel good and not bogged down with children you have. Whatever. It's actually very possible to not get pregnant in the first place.

 

[SGdsn]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

Human life just isn't that precious. If it were, we wouldn't send thousand of men and women to die for oil and $, and you right wingers know it too.

LOL, you're against abortion and all of a sudden you're a "right-winger". OK.

Now I value the 18 year old boy much more than a so called "pro lifer" does. I/We wouldn't send them to die for money and oil, like George Bush did.

But if his mom didn't want him because she felt she would be tied down with a kid, you wouldn't think his life was worth anything. Interesting how that works.

And you defended that war. What was the reason we invaded again? Certainly not worth the lives lost. Saddam wouldn't have killed as many people that have died as a result of us invading Iraq.

I care more about a baby turtle who's trying to make it to the water and gets snatched up by a bird than I do for my neighbors fetus. I don't give a fuck about a seed in their stomach. She should have the right to abort, just like most of the pro lifers did when they were in highschool or college. Why do you think they are so guilty and hung up over other people having abortions? I don't give a fuck if you get one!!! Get it???

So you've not only accused me of supporting war, but you care more about animals than people. LOL. Perfectly normal, perfectly healthy.

And they would get those abortions again if they were in the same situation. Now that they are not in that situation, they want to judge? Fuck them!

Abortion saves lives. All those potentially HORRIBLE mothers are not rasing our future convicts.

And since conservatives don't like welfare, who's gonna pay for them? Abortion is a necessary evil. And that's why we LOVE abortion.

Well, at least you're honest about being totally fucked up.

 

[uptownlivin90]

American politics. It's not "we have a different opinion." It's "you all have hidden agendas." Anyway abortion happens. So does stupidity. I don't "like" or "dislike" medical procedures, and that's what abortion is, a medical procedure. I just defend and support the right of the woman to have one if they so choose.

 

[Sarah G]

Abortion is painful, both physically and mentally. Nobody likes it. They do call it choice for a reason though.

Is the morning after pill considered abortion iyo, opening poster?

 

[Neser Boha]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

I could as well be arguing that 'pro-lifers' are not actually pro-life as they obviously do not give a flying fuck about the potential mother's life and free will - as they do not acknowledge her right to do as she wishes with her body and her life. I could actually go as far as to say that I consider them anti-liberty, anti-personal freedom.

No, you actually couldn't argue that, considering pro-lifers don't think a woman should have to die to maintain her pregnancy, and while they don't believe in you having the free will to kill your unborn child, they do believe you should have (and *gasp* do have) the free will to not create an unborn child in the first place.

What now? Where does that put us? In the midst of yet another tired abortion debate? Let's just swallow the fact we all have different opinions and our differing opinions should have no impact whatsoever on the lives of those that don't share them. If you are anti-abortion, don't have an abortion. If you don't want that 16-year-old living down the road having abortion, offer her to adopt her baby or pay its way through college.

Howgh.

Well, if you're acknowledging you can't have an intellectually honest debate because you can't stand the idea of being on the bottom rung morally speaking, then yeah I guess you're right.

Also, I don't know why pro-choicers think they're saying something profound when they mention that pro-lifers aren't lining up to take care of these kids who would otherwise be aborted. Yeah, because it's totally our responsibility to make sure you're perfectly comfortable and feel good and not bogged down with children you have. Whatever. It's actually very possible to not get pregnant in the first place.

Are you under the impression that you are engaging in 'an intellectually honest debate'?

I offered my own ideas and my own approach to the problem in response to the OP. You just plain out dismissed what I said. Is that 'an intellectually honest debate' according to you?

And no, I do not believe I'd be on the 'bottom rung morally speaking'. I actually think I'm the one on the 'upper rung morally speaking' as I'm not imposing my opinion on another's life.

Can you see now? We're not getting anywhere with this 'debate' as I have my mind already set and so do you. The point of my post was that it's completely and utterly pointless to even have these 'debates' anymore as there are always going to be people for it, against it, and some that simply don't know.

Also, the main allegation of this OP prevents this thread to bring on an honest debate as it ridiculously accuses pro-choice folks of somehow 'liking abortions'. WTF? It's very - very - insulting, not to mention imbecilic.

 

[Againsheila]

I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

I guess I'm pro-choice. I think abortion is wrong and never should be used as a means of birth control. But when a woman is raped, she shouldn't have to carry that child to term. Also, before I had my two autistic children, my husband and I discussed it and decided that if our children were to have birth defects, we'd abort them. Well guess what....too late. I also know of a woman that had a late term abortion. The baby had 1/2 a brain and if they didn't abort, she never would be able to have had kids again. They now have a healthy 7 year old boy who wouldn't be here if she's carried that baby to term.

So yes, I'm pro-choice, but I also think women should not be able to have abortion after abortion. Anybody can make a mistake once, but the second time, they should be sterilized.

Also, I think science is about at the point where if you don't want the fetus and someone else does, it can be implanted into another body, I think that should be a choice before abortion. Let someone else carry the baby to term and raise that child. Some sort of fetus adoption or something. Why kill a perfectly healthy fetus when so many people want children and can't have them?

Of course, I know women that would rather kill their fetuses than let someone else have them. To me, that's murder, not abortion. It's the same as the women in India who kill their baby girls rather than give them up for adoption because they are afraid their children wouldn't be raised to know "their" God.

Not "IF SHE'S RAPED". She should have the right within a certain amount of time for whatever reason she wants. Lets say, within the first month, or trimester.

And late term? Thats between the woman and her doctor. Unless you want to pay for raising a severely retarded person their entire lives. Because that person and his/her parents will absolutely go on government social security/medicare/medicade/welfare because it isn't cheap taking care of a handicapped person. Not only does the retarded person get benefits, the parents get money from the government as "primary care givers".

Or if it means the life of the woman...The decision should be left to the doctor and patient, not us.

A woman shouldn't have to go and lie and say she was raped.

Nixon said, "Of course I see there are times when abortion is necessary, like rape, or when a black and a white get pregnant".

Republicans want to stop welfare and ban abortion? Thats because they want to create a huge working poor class where wages are really low.

They already did that with all the immigrants, both legal and illegal they've allowed in, and that's the responsibility of BOTH parties. Americans, on average have less than replacement value when it comes to kids. Immigrants have on average 7.5 children per family.

They don't need to stop abortion to increase the population, in fact, it's better for them to do it with illegals as they don't have any rights and keep our wages even lower.