President Obama DERELICT at his number 1 responsibilty

[Iriemon]

If someone bitterly hates the US because, just hypothetically, the US wrongly attacked his country, US warplanes bombed his neighborhood and killed his mother, you don't think that person is more likely to be someone who is responsive to recruiting efforts by the radicals? I do.

I've always been worried that the children of the Iraqi innocents who have lost their homes, their families, and have seen nothing but blood, guts and more war will eventually grow up to be true enemies of the United States. The war started in March of 2003 with the bombing of Baghdad. A child of ten would now be 15, and ripe for a renewed wave of anti-American propaganda.

Me too Maggie. I'm afraid we will be paying a price for this mistake for years. All the people that lost their mothers or brothers or dads or cousins -- and even if not directly by US bombs or gunfire my gues is a lot of them will blame the US for the civil violence that was unleashed by the invasion.

What is that chances that some of these will be the ones volunteering to fly the next plane or whatever they think of to attacke us, a decade, two decades from now?

The pain of war, cannot exceed, the woe of aftermath ...

 

[MaggieMae]

Well, I see the Blame AMerica First rally is in full swing.

As usual, you are full of fake right wing pseudo patriotic crap Willow.

We are blaming Bush, Cheney and Company - Not America.

Fucking bullshit, my Dear.

What alternative method of quickly gathering intelligence from captured terrorists do you recommend?

See Post #18. Those would work particularly well with devoted and well indoctrinated Islamic terrorists who consider those kinds of atrocities of the flesh ultimate sins, not torture or death which they would consider sacrifices in the name of Allah.

 

[MaggieMae]

A couple packs of American cigarettes and a ration of cool juice will get more and better information out of a deta[/SIZE]inee then all the beatings and abuse and waterboarding episodes.
THAT is a proven fact.
Basic operant conditioning.
Used by all successful dog trainers, everywhere.
You'd go with the Michael Vick approach.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps the detainees might not sell out their brethen as easily as Democrats do? You really shouldn't measure others by your own basket. And haven't you heard? Cigarettes are dangerous and here you are wanting to give them to our "guests". Are you just trying to kill them slowly? Do you have a doctor present when they smoke to be sure that their health isn't impacted?

When beaten down by logic, try the cute 'n clever approach...

 

[Maple]

Well Maggie you had better hope that he does not release all of those documents because if he does, your guy not only stepped in it, it will take him years to knock the poop off of that shoe and it will follow him everywhere for years to come.

This ain't gonna go away, he opened that can of worms and he will be forced to dump that can out for everyone to see. I say, BRING ON THE PROSECUTOR, this will be fun to watch.

 

[MaggieMae]

What evidence do any of you have that tough interogation makes this country less safe??? 9-11 happened murdering 3,000 American civilians and we did not interogate anyone preceding that attack. The U.S Cole was bombed and we had not interogated anyone before then. The marines barracks was bombed killing several hundred marines and there was no interogation preceding that.

So again, why do you (you, collectively) assume there was no interrogation prior to those events of the people we had captured and jailed? You only know what you have been told.

That said, don't you don't think these people would have been interrogated regarding future planned attacks?

WTC attack, 1993
Four followers of the Egyptian cleric Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman were captured, convicted of the World Trade Center bombing in March 1994, and sentenced to 240 years in prison each. The purported mastermind of the plot, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, was captured in 1995, convicted of the bombing in November 1997, and also sentenced to 240 years in prison. One additional suspect fled the U.S. and is believed to be living in Tehran.

US Embassy, Kenya and Tanzania, 1998
On 7 August 1998, powerful car bombs exploded minutes apart outside the United States embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 224 people and wounding about 5,000 others. Four participants with ties to Osama bin Laden were captured, convicted in U.S. federal court, and sentenced to life in prison without parole in October 2001. Fourteen other suspects indicted in the case remain at large, and three more are fighting extradition in London.

 

[MaggieMae]

To go against the advise of 4 former CIA directors including George Tennet in the release of documents that were considered TOP SECRET is not only irresponsible it shoud be considered criminal negligence. This was all a political ploy to calm the extreme left in this country, this will backfire.

Democrats have always been considered WEAK on defense and of course Obama just stepped in it and CONFIRMED this to the American people by the releasing of these interogation techniques. Now he is attempting to cherry pick these documents and that a'int gonna work either. It will all come out, Cheney will make sure of that.

This will be back to bite him and bite him hard it will.

BTW does flying planes into a building where there are 3,000 civilians amount to torture???? Hmmmmm

Newsflash: Cheney has no authority to do squat anymore. Strangely, HE is the one who has opened up the can of worms, and this will not turn out well for him. Did he imagine that he still had the final word? And that there would never actually be some kind of inquest over alleged criminal activities? The whole current debate might have quietly gone away (again), were it not for Cheney's big yap, huffing and puffing that HE would have the CIA declassify ALL the reports. We know that he's gathered all his civilian lieutenants in the news media around his wagon, but he is simply digging his own grave even deeper. If there is an official investigation over the torture issue, you can be sure it won't end there.

 

[MaggieMae]

If someone bitterly hates the US because, just hypothetically, the US wrongly attacked his country, US warplanes bombed his neighborhood and killed his mother, you don't think that person is more likely to be someone who is responsive to recruiting efforts by the radicals? I do.

I've always been worried that the children of the Iraqi innocents who have lost their homes, their families, and have seen nothing but blood, guts and more war will eventually grow up to be true enemies of the United States. The war started in March of 2003 with the bombing of Baghdad. A child of ten would now be 15, and ripe for a renewed wave of anti-American propaganda.

Me too Maggie. I'm afraid we will be paying a price for this mistake for years. All the people that lost their mothers or brothers or dads or cousins -- and even if not directly by US bombs or gunfire my gues is a lot of them will blame the US for the civil violence that was unleashed by the invasion.

What is that chances that some of these will be the ones volunteering to fly the next plane or whatever they think of to attacke us, a decade, two decades from now?

The pain of war, cannot exceed, the woe of aftermath ...

And 3,000,000 refugees can't be happy campers either.

 

[MaggieMae]

Well Maggie you had better hope that he does not release all of those documents because if he does, your guy not only stepped in it, it will take him years to knock the poop off of that shoe and it will follow him everywhere for years to come.

This ain't gonna go away, he opened that can of worms and he will be forced to dump that can out for everyone to see. I say, BRING ON THE PROSECUTOR, this will be fun to watch.

Why would Obama take the heat for any of it? Whaaaat???!!

 

[Maple]

I 'll bet that when those interogation papers were released to Osama Bin Lauden that he got that same tingly feeling running up and down his leg that Chris Matthews got just to hear Obama read his telepromter. I bet it just absolutely turned Bin Lauden on.

 

[Maple]

Because as the President of the USA he got this ball a-rolling, he could have stopped it dead in it's tracks and he didn't . He should never have released those documents, they were considered TOP SECRET, he did this against the advise of 4 former directors of the CIA including George Tennet and he did it anyway. It will come back to bite him and bite him hard it will. This will cost him alot of support, because Americans consider their safety first and foremost.

Democrats have always been considered weak on defense, and guess what, he just confirmed that.

BTW: Is it considered torture to blow up a US Naval Vessel with American soldiers aboard???? Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[Zoom-boing]

What evidence do any of you have that tough interogation makes this country less safe??? 9-11 happened murdering 3,000 American civilians and we did not interogate anyone preceding that attack. The U.S Cole was bombed and we had not interogated anyone before then. The marines barracks was bombed killing several hundred marines and there was no interogation preceding that.

So again, why do you (you, collectively) assume there was no interrogation prior to those events of the people we had captured and jailed? You only know what you have been told.

That said, don't you don't think these people would have been interrogated regarding future planned attacks?

WTC attack, 1993
Four followers of the Egyptian cleric Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman were captured, convicted of the World Trade Center bombing in March 1994, and sentenced to 240 years in prison each. The purported mastermind of the plot, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, was captured in 1995, convicted of the bombing in November 1997, and also sentenced to 240 years in prison. One additional suspect fled the U.S. and is believed to be living in Tehran.

US Embassy, Kenya and Tanzania, 1998
On 7 August 1998, powerful car bombs exploded minutes apart outside the United States embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 224 people and wounding about 5,000 others. Four participants with ties to Osama bin Laden were captured, convicted in U.S. federal court, and sentenced to life in prison without parole in October 2001. Fourteen other suspects indicted in the case remain at large, and three more are fighting extradition in London.

Do you know if they were, or weren't, interrogated? If they were, did they have any intel - or did they not know anything?

 

[k2skier]

Actually....

yes, i feel much safer now.

thanks for asking.

Yes! So do I, now that we got rid of that terrorist GWB.

 

[Vel]

anti-American propaganda[/SIZE].

And bless your liberal little heart, you're going to spoon feed it to the child. Good job

 

[Iriemon]

Because as the President of the USA he got this ball a-rolling, he could have stopped it dead in it's tracks and he didn't . He should never have released those documents, they were considered TOP SECRET, he did this against the advise of 4 former directors of the CIA including George Tennet and he did it anyway. It will come back to bite him and bite him hard it will. This will cost him alot of support, because Americans consider their safety first and foremost.

Democrats have always been considered weak on defense, and guess what, he just confirmed that.

BTW: Is it considered torture to blow up a US Naval Vessel with American soldiers aboard???? Hmmmmmmmmm

I think in the war on terror, which is really a war of ideals, American ideals will triumph over the values of Islamic radicalism, even though it has a strong point in being religiously based.

But I think the principles of human rights, rule of law, equality before law, democracy, and freedom that made America what Reagan called the shining city on the hill win out over radicalism in the battle for minds.

When America acts consistent with those ideals, she proves their valor. When America slumps to the level of the extremists, with torture, locking people away without due process and disregarding human rights, the line between the good guys and the bad guys gets blurred. Our enemies can say we are hypocrites and that the principles we pretend to stand for are meaningless.

That is why I applaud Obama. It may put us a little more at risk, though I don't think much. But it shows the world that we stand by our principles. Same with closing down Gitmo and trying the prisoners. Same with our nation electing a black man.

We win the war of ideas by standing by what America stands for.

 

[Dr Grump]

Because as the President of the USA he got this ball a-rolling, he could have stopped it dead in it's tracks and he didn't . He should never have released those documents, they were considered TOP SECRET, he did this against the advise of 4 former directors of the CIA including George Tennet and he did it anyway. It will come back to bite him and bite him hard it will. This will cost him alot of support, because Americans consider their safety first and foremost.

Democrats have always been considered weak on defense, and guess what, he just confirmed that.

BTW: Is it considered torture to blow up a US Naval Vessel with American soldiers aboard???? Hmmmmmmmmm

Only blow hard right wing whackjobs will see it as Obama being weak. Most of us see that somebody has decided to be transparent to the American people, and not acting like the WH gives him the right to act as if the US is his own little kingdom where he can run around riding rough-shod over everybody, like the Chimp did. It must really chap your arse that somebody is in the WH actually working FOR the people. And it ain't lost on this foreigner that you righties scream bloody murder about your individual rights and less govt and states' rights blah, blah. blah, and when somebody actually does show the American people the inner mechanisms of THEIR system, they get all shitty about it. In the end, you pay lip service to your freedoms unless they are on your terms. The right-wing belief system is built on quick sand and greed...

 

[Maple]

In just 100 days, Abama has given the Republicans enough stuff to talk about and debate in the next Presidential election and win hands down. It's gettin comical out here in the real country. Can't you just vision all the Presidential hopefuls taking careful detailed notes on this joke of a President. Giving out TOP SECRET info to the terrorists who want to kill us all. Pushing through an 810 billion dollar stimulus bill that no one had the time to read before they voted on it and it was full of very amusing pork. One of which Chris Dodd wrote in bonuses for failed AIG execs, of course, no one knew it, because they did not have the chance to read it. Then we got the Omnibus bill with 9,000 earmarks one of which we are going to study why pigs stink. Now we are going to prosecute the Bush administration people for torture during interogation proceedings of 3 top leaders. lol
We have not even gotten to the cap and trade debaucle, which will cost $2,000 to $4,000 per American household and I can hardly wait for the $3.7 Trillion dollar budget that he's gonna pile on here. lol Oh, I forgot, Nattional health care, what could that possibly entail.
This is hilarious, and it's going to be a slaughterhouse in the next election. Keep it up Obama, there won't be a liberal democrat left in the house or senate.

 

[Dr Grump]

In just 100 days, Abama has given the Republicans enough stuff to talk about and debate in the next Presidential election and win hands down. It's gettin comical out here in the real country. Can't you just vision all the Presidential hopefuls taking careful detailed notes on this joke of a President. Giving out TOP SECRET info to the terrorists who want to kill us all. Pushing through an 810 billion dollar stimulus bill that no one had the time to read before they voted on it and it was full of very amusing pork. One of which Chris Dodd wrote in bonuses for failed AIG execs, of course, no one knew it, because they did not have the chance to read it. Then we got the Omnibus bill with 9,000 earmarks one of which we are going to study why pigs stink. Now we are going to prosecute the Bush administration people for torture during interogation proceedings of 3 top leaders. lol
We have not even gotten to the cap and trade debaucle, which will cost $2,000 to $4,000 per American household and I can hardly wait for the $3.7 Trillion dollar budget that he's gonna pile on here. lol Oh, I forgot, Nattional health care, what could that possibly entail.
This is hilarious, and it's going to be a slaughterhouse in the next election. Keep it up Obama, there won't be a liberal democrat left in the house or senate.

All he is doing is trying to fix up the mess your boy left. Doing a good job of it too...

 

[Maple]

“It was not necessary to release details of the enhanced interrogation techniques, because members of Congress from both parties have been fully aware of them since the program began in 2002,” Hoekstra wrote.


Hoekstra also chided the president for his backtracking this week, pointing to how the chief executive had now “opened the door to possible prosecution of Justice Department attorneys who provided legal advice with respect to the enhanced interrogations program.”


“The president also signaled that he may support some kind of independent inquiry into the program. It seems that he has capitulated to left-wing groups and some in Congress who are demanding show trials over this program,” he wrote.


Any investigation, Hoekstra wrote, must include an expert assessment of “the likely damage done to U.S. national security by Mr. Obama’s decision to release the memos over the objections of Mr. Panetta and four of his predecessors.”

Question: Why did you release information considered "Top Secret" when advised by 4 former CIA directors not to.

Answer: The devil made me, move on dot. org and George Soros.

 

[knightowl]

Because as the President of the USA he got this ball a-rolling, he could have stopped it dead in it's tracks and he didn't . He should never have released those documents, they were considered TOP SECRET, he did this against the advise of 4 former directors of the CIA including George Tennet and he did it anyway. It will come back to bite him and bite him hard it will. This will cost him alot of support, because Americans consider their safety first and foremost.

Democrats have always been considered weak on defense, and guess what, he just confirmed that.

BTW: Is it considered torture to blow up a US Naval Vessel with American soldiers aboard???? Hmmmmmmmmm

I think in the war on terror, which is really a war of ideals, American ideals will triumph over the values of Islamic radicalism, even though it has a strong point in being religiously based.

But I think the principles of human rights, rule of law, equality before law, democracy, and freedom that made America what Reagan called the shining city on the hill win out over radicalism in the battle for minds.

When America acts consistent with those ideals, she proves their valor. When America slumps to the level of the extremists, with torture, locking people away without due process and disregarding human rights, the line between the good guys and the bad guys gets blurred. Our enemies can say we are hypocrites and that the principles we pretend to stand for are meaningless.

That is why I applaud Obama. It may put us a little more at risk, though I don't think much. But it shows the world that we stand by our principles. Same with closing down Gitmo and trying the prisoners. Same with our nation electing a black man.

We win the war of ideas by standing by what America stands for.

Congratulations. You have the only rational post here touting the left viewpoint. I think there's some good wisdom in it.

I personally am against torture. However, from everything I've heard so far, come on.... these guys weren't tortured. As was pointed out... much of this stuff [and the like] we do to our own soldiers in SERE training. To me, torture is cutting fingers and toes off, or breaking bones systematically. Psyching them out with a physician standing right next to them in the case of an emergency? Not even close. I think the left are only calling it torture to help gain opposition against it. Our boys are being treated much worse by them.
Has America become a bunch of pansies?

And before you getting on the "The Right Wing are Kooks" book tour, I think we shoudl look at the big picture. The Democrats will whine and wail because we made a couple of terrorists cry by putting them in a room with a caterpillar, calling it gross and inhumane, while consistently campaigning to legalize and expand abortion, which kills unborn children (I realize that's a separate matter open to debate, but I think its pertinent to provide a contrast). Its ok to kill babies, but not ok to make a terrorist, whose stated intent is to wipe us off the earth, from crying for a little while, AFTER they killed 3,000 civilian americans (the number would have been higher, but a couple of other plane hijacks were foiled)? That to me presents a muddled message of human rights.

Lets all grow a pair

 

[Maple]

Actually he is quadrupling the mess that was already made. Nothing is being cleaned up.