President John F. Kennedy's Definition of a Liberal.

[Procrustes Stretched]

Kennedy was further right than today's Democrats.

Kennedy was not further right than the Democratic party, he was further right than the left wing fringe, of today and yesterday. Liberals are NOT left wing. They are n the left of conservatism.

I posted a link to JFK's speech on what a liberal is in his eyes.

I see no one on the right ever attack or debate what JFK ever said about being a liberal. I see the types of arguments you are trying to make.

Now, I believe JFK was more of a moderate than many of the Democrats people like to attack for being leftists, but like Clinton and the DCL, Kennedy was a common sense liberal.

but we digress, JFK's values would be anathema to the GOP of today. JFK's family (that uphold his values and beliefs) have stayed in the Democratic party and have not been thrown out or become unwelcome.

I disagree.

about what? everything?


ltr

 

[Bfgrn]

President John F. Kennedy's Definition of a Liberal. (sorry Right Wing World, you lose)

I know many kooks and cons keep saying that JFK would not be a Democrat or a Liberal today. But kooks and cons have warped memories if they truly believe this bullcrap. I suggest they know right well JFK would be a liberal Democrat today. How do I know this? JFK in his own words:

"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label, "Liberal"...if by a "Liberal," they mean...someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties...if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say that I'm a "Liberal." "[Applause.]

- Address of John F. Kennedy upon Accepting the Liberal Party Nomination for President, New York, New York, September 14, 1960 - John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum

---

"Tonight we salute George Meany as a symbol of that struggle and as a reminder that the fight to eliminate poverty and human exploitation is a fight that goes on in our day...And tonight we salute Adlai Stevenson as an eloquent spokesman..."

- A Liberal Definition by JFK

---

as you can see, the kooks and cons would have you believe they think a conservative would salute those two fine gentlemen JFK saluted.

What conservative politician today ran on or dares to admit wanting to care about the people's "...health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties." as a politician?

They kept telling us for decades now that it is not the government's or a politician's business.

If they cared they'd have to do something about it. You can't do something when you say the government has no role.

Jack Kennedy's best friend from his days a Choate was Lem Billings, a gay male. They remained best friends until November 22, 1963. While Jack was president, Lem even had his own room at the White House and was there most weekends. And JFK never walked away from his friend, even though it would have been politically wise, especially back in the 60's.

To me it shows just how secure, confident and comfortable in his own skin our 35th President was. It was those same strong traits that allowed him to say NO, and stand up to all the joint chiefs, cabinet and personal advisers, and Senate and Congressional leaders who told him to invade Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. As we know now, the Soviet missiles WERE armed with nuclear war heads, and Soviet military personnel were cleared to fire them on US cities if the US attack Cuba.

After President Kennedy's assassination, Lem remained close to the family. The Kennedy family was an inclusive rather than exclusive family.

The author paints a profile of a richly textured friendship set against the backdrop of some of the most remarkable events of the twentieth century, a time of unparalleled idealism but also of rampant homophobia. The book concludes with a chapter on Lem's life after Dallas when he admitted he had loved John Kennedy deeply. "Jack made a big difference in my life," he said. "Because of him, I was never lonely. He may have been the reason I never got married." Crushed by the assassination, Lem became a much-diminished man in his final years.

Jack & Lem: The Untold Story of an Extraordinary Friendship, John F. Kennedy and Lem Billings
by David Pitts

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RPTRsqS30g"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RPTRsqS30g[/ame]

After Robert Kennedy’s assassination, Billings became a surrogate father to Bobby Jr. and other Kennedy boys, several of whom have spoken of Billings with great affection. His leadership helped establish the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts and the John F. Kennedy Library. Senator Ted Kennedy described the friendship between his brother and Billings as “a bond of perfect trust and understanding that served them all their lives.” Eunice Kennedy Shriver is quoted as saying that “President Kennedy was a completely liberated man when he was with Lem.” Another friend remarks of the two men’s relationship, “it was love, and not all love has to be consummated.”


Lem Billings: John F. Kennedy’s Best Friend: History of the 1960s’

Lem Billings died in his sleep following a heart attack on May 28, 1981. Lem's dying wish was for the young Kennedy men to carry his coffin, but when the Kennedy men arrived at the cemetery, the casket was already in place, ready to be lowered. The young Kennedys retrieved the coffin from its position and carried it around the gravesite before returning it to the burial plot.

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
President John F. Kennedy

 

[daveman]

That is an unfair opinion but it is a popular one. Depending on what union people look at and at what actions, unions can be a godsend. Many places I worked at as I traveled around had dumb union rules. Many were well meaning protections that ended up getting abused.

Unions pay out retirement benefits. Many companies like Polaroid stole people's retirement benefits. Many previously good companies became just as bad or worse, than the worst unions. What changed?

Corporate raiders. The investors, the wealthy, the private wealth firms cannibalized good companies and not only threw people out of work, they killed companies and stole the pension plans of generations.

Go to Massachusetts and meet people who worked for Polaroid.

Sure, there have been some corporate abuses. There have also been union abuses.

Unions have become the enforcement arm of the Democratic Party. Do you suppose that represents conservative union members?

A union cannot represent every individual or group view. There are unions that are conservative in membership that keep liberal members out on the outside -- Teamsters and Police unions.

Most unions back the Democrats because Democrats are friendly to labor. Labor vs corporations. Pointing out the flaws in unions is no argument for getting rid of unions.

Saying unions mostly back Democrats says more about what Democrats believe in and do than it says about unions.There are unions that have backed Republicans. But reality says that since the implementation of unions in the USA, the GOP has been hostile to every union demand. Why would unions back the GOP?


note: gotta run...pick up later

Actually, most unions back Dems because the Dems give them payback, like this bit of horseshit.

 

[daveman]

Kennedy was not further right than the Democratic party, he was further right than the left wing fringe, of today and yesterday. Liberals are NOT left wing. They are n the left of conservatism.

I posted a link to JFK's speech on what a liberal is in his eyes.

I see no one on the right ever attack or debate what JFK ever said about being a liberal. I see the types of arguments you are trying to make.

Now, I believe JFK was more of a moderate than many of the Democrats people like to attack for being leftists, but like Clinton and the DCL, Kennedy was a common sense liberal.

but we digress, JFK's values would be anathema to the GOP of today. JFK's family (that uphold his values and beliefs) have stayed in the Democratic party and have not been thrown out or become unwelcome.

I disagree.

about what? everything?


ltr

Yeah, everything in your post.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I disagree.

about what? everything?


ltr

Yeah, everything in your post.

lol

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Sure, there have been some corporate abuses. There have also been union abuses.

Unions have become the enforcement arm of the Democratic Party. Do you suppose that represents conservative union members?

A union cannot represent every individual or group view. There are unions that are conservative in membership that keep liberal members out on the outside -- Teamsters and Police unions.

Most unions back the Democrats because Democrats are friendly to labor. Labor vs corporations. Pointing out the flaws in unions is no argument for getting rid of unions.

Saying unions mostly back Democrats says more about what Democrats believe in and do than it says about unions.There are unions that have backed Republicans. But reality says that since the implementation of unions in the USA, the GOP has been hostile to every union demand. Why would unions back the GOP?


note: gotta run...pick up later

Actually, most unions back Dems because the Dems give them payback, like this bit of horseshit.

Looking out for the union working man? what is wrong with that? candidates and the elected officials promise pay back to veterans for their votes? what's wrong with that?

the GOP will be paying back the US Chamber of Commerce? what is wrong with that? Oh, you'll see...what is good for American Corporations is NOT always good for the American people -- the American worker. Everyone will get screwed, but union people will get screwed the least -- they have the Democrats to run interference for them when business attacks the middle class..

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

President John F. Kennedy's Definition of a Liberal. (sorry Right Wing World, you lose)

I know many kooks and cons keep saying that JFK would not be a Democrat or a Liberal today. But kooks and cons have warped memories if they truly believe this bullcrap. I suggest they know right well JFK would be a liberal Democrat today. How do I know this? JFK in his own words:

"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label, "Liberal"...if by a "Liberal," they mean...someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties...if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say that I'm a "Liberal." "[Applause.]

- Address of John F. Kennedy upon Accepting the Liberal Party Nomination for President, New York, New York, September 14, 1960 - John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum

---

"Tonight we salute George Meany as a symbol of that struggle and as a reminder that the fight to eliminate poverty and human exploitation is a fight that goes on in our day...And tonight we salute Adlai Stevenson as an eloquent spokesman..."

- A Liberal Definition by JFK

---

as you can see, the kooks and cons would have you believe they think a conservative would salute those two fine gentlemen JFK saluted.

What conservative politician today ran on or dares to admit wanting to care about the people's "...health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties." as a politician?

They kept telling us for decades now that it is not the government's or a politician's business.

If they cared they'd have to do something about it. You can't do something when you say the government has no role.

Jack Kennedy's best friend from his days a Choate was Lem Billings, a gay male. They remained best friends until November 22, 1963. While Jack was president, Lem even had his own room at the White House and was there most weekends. And JFK never walked away from his friend, even though it would have been politically wise, especially back in the 60's.

To me it shows just how secure, confident and comfortable in his own skin our 35th President was. It was those same strong traits that allowed him to say NO, and stand up to all the joint chiefs, cabinet and personal advisers, and Senate and Congressional leaders who told him to invade Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. As we know now, the Soviet missiles WERE armed with nuclear war heads, and Soviet military personnel were cleared to fire them on US cities if the US attack Cuba.

After President Kennedy's assassination, Lem remained close to the family. The Kennedy family was an inclusive rather than exclusive family.

The author paints a profile of a richly textured friendship set against the backdrop of some of the most remarkable events of the twentieth century, a time of unparalleled idealism but also of rampant homophobia. The book concludes with a chapter on Lem's life after Dallas when he admitted he had loved John Kennedy deeply. "Jack made a big difference in my life," he said. "Because of him, I was never lonely. He may have been the reason I never got married." Crushed by the assassination, Lem became a much-diminished man in his final years.

Jack & Lem: The Untold Story of an Extraordinary Friendship, John F. Kennedy and Lem Billings
by David Pitts

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RPTRsqS30g"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RPTRsqS30g[/ame]

After Robert Kennedy’s assassination, Billings became a surrogate father to Bobby Jr. and other Kennedy boys, several of whom have spoken of Billings with great affection. His leadership helped establish the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts and the John F. Kennedy Library. Senator Ted Kennedy described the friendship between his brother and Billings as “a bond of perfect trust and understanding that served them all their lives.” Eunice Kennedy Shriver is quoted as saying that “President Kennedy was a completely liberated man when he was with Lem.” Another friend remarks of the two men’s relationship, “it was love, and not all love has to be consummated.”


Lem Billings: John F. Kennedy’s Best Friend: History of the 1960s’

Lem Billings died in his sleep following a heart attack on May 28, 1981. Lem's dying wish was for the young Kennedy men to carry his coffin, but when the Kennedy men arrived at the cemetery, the casket was already in place, ready to be lowered. The young Kennedys retrieved the coffin from its position and carried it around the gravesite before returning it to the burial plot.

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
President John F. Kennedy

great liberal Americans those Kennedys.

 

[AllieBaba]

Liberal = Progressive.

Kennedy was liberal, but he used his brother to carry out the more extreme activities of his socialist agenda.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Liberal = Progressive.

Liberal does not = Progressive.


goodbye

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Kennedy...used his brother...

people like you killed the Kennedys

 

[Bfgrn]

When President Kennedy was assassinated in 1963, his brother Ted was already a Senator (Jack's old seat). Jack was Ted's idol. He dedicated his public life to fulfill the aspirations his brothers had for America. So if JFK and Bobby were not liberals., than neither was Ted.

Robert Frost said:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

I hope that road will not be the less traveled by, and I hope your commitment to the Great Republic's interest in the years to come will be worthy of your long inheritance since your beginning.

This day devoted to the memory of Robert Frost offers an opportunity for reflection which is prized by politicians as well as by others, and even by poets, for Robert Frost was one of the granite figures of our time in America. He was supremely two things: an artist and an American. A nation reveals itself not only by the men it produces but also by the men it honors, the men it remembers.

In America, our heroes have customarily run to men of large accomplishments. But today this college and country honors a man whose contribution was not to our size but to our spirit, not to our political beliefs but to our insight, not to our self-esteem, but to our self- comprehension. In honoring Robert Frost, we therefore can pay honor to the deepest sources of our national strength. That strength takes many forms, and the most obvious forms are not always the most significant. The men who create power make an indispensable contribution to the Nation's greatness, but the men who question power make a contribution just as indispensable, especially when that questioning is disinterested, for they determine whether we use power or power uses us.

Our national strength matters, but the spirit which informs and controls our strength matters just as much. This was the special significance of Robert Frost. He brought an unsparing instinct for reality to bear on the platitudes and pieties of society. His sense of the human tragedy fortified him against self-deception and easy consolation. "I have been" he wrote, "one acquainted with the night." And because he knew the midnight as well as the high noon, because he understood the ordeal as well as the triumph of the human spirit, he gave his age strength with which to overcome despair. At bottom, he held a deep faith in the spirit of man, and it is hardly an accident that Robert Frost coupled poetry and power, for he saw poetry as the means of saving power from itself. When power leads men towards arrogance, poetry reminds him of his limitations. When power narrows the areas of man's concern, poetry reminds him of the richness and diversity of his existence. When power corrupts, poetry cleanses. For art establishes the basic human truth which must serve as the touchstone of our judgment.

The artist, however faithful to his personal vision of reality, becomes the last champion of the individual mind and sensibility against an intrusive society and an officious state. The great artist is thus a solitary figure. He has, as Frost said, a lover's quarrel with the world. In pursuing his perceptions of reality, he must often sail against the currents of his time. This is not a popular role. If Robert Frost was much honored in his lifetime, it was because a good many preferred to ignore his darker truths. Yet in retrospect, we see how the artist's fidelity has strengthened the fibre of our national life.

If sometimes our great artist have been the most critical of our society, it is because their sensitivity and their concern for justice, which must motivate any true artist, makes him aware that our Nation falls short of its highest potential. I see little of more importance to the future of our country and our civilization than full recognition of the place of the artist.

If art is to nourish the roots of our culture, society must set the artist free to follow his vision wherever it takes him. We must never forget that art is not a form of propaganda; it is a form of truth. And as Mr. MacLeish once remarked of poets, there is nothing worse for our trade than to be in style. In free society art is not a weapon and it does not belong to the spheres of polemic and ideology. Artists are not engineers of the soul. It may be different elsewhere. But democratic society--in it, the highest duty of the writer, the composer, the artist is to remain true to himself and to let the chips fall where they may. In serving his vision of the truth, the artist best serves his nation. And the nation which disdains the mission of art invites the fate of Robert Frost's hired man, the fate of having "nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope."

I look forward to a great future for America, a future in which our country will match its military strength with our moral restraint, its wealth with our wisdom, its power with our purpose. I look forward to an America which will not be afraid of grace and beauty, which will protect the beauty of our natural environment, which will preserve the great old American houses and squares and parks of our national past, and which will build handsome and balanced cities for our future.

I look forward to an America which will reward achievement in the arts as we reward achievement in business or statecraft. I look forward to an America which will steadily raise the standards of artistic accomplishment and which will steadily enlarge cultural opportunities for all of our citizens. And I look forward to an America which commands respect throughout the world not only for its strength but for its civilization as well. And I look forward to a world which will be safe not only for democracy and diversity but also for personal distinction.

Robert Frost was often skeptical about projects for human improvement, yet I do not think he would disdain this hope. As he wrote during the uncertain days of the Second War:

Take human nature altogether since time
began . . .
And it must be a little more in favor of
man,
Say a fraction of one percent at the very
least . . .
Our hold on this planet wouldn't have so
increased.


Because of Mr. Frost's life and work, because of the life and work of this college, our hold on this planet has increased.

Remarks at Amherst College

President John F. Kennedy
Amherst, Massachusetts
October 26, 1963

audio Listen to this speech

 

[daveman]

A union cannot represent every individual or group view. There are unions that are conservative in membership that keep liberal members out on the outside -- Teamsters and Police unions.

Most unions back the Democrats because Democrats are friendly to labor. Labor vs corporations. Pointing out the flaws in unions is no argument for getting rid of unions.

Saying unions mostly back Democrats says more about what Democrats believe in and do than it says about unions.There are unions that have backed Republicans. But reality says that since the implementation of unions in the USA, the GOP has been hostile to every union demand. Why would unions back the GOP?


note: gotta run...pick up later

Actually, most unions back Dems because the Dems give them payback, like this bit of horseshit.

Looking out for the union working man? what is wrong with that? candidates and the elected officials promise pay back to veterans for their votes? what's wrong with that?

the GOP will be paying back the US Chamber of Commerce? what is wrong with that? Oh, you'll see...what is good for American Corporations is NOT always good for the American people -- the American worker. Everyone will get screwed, but union people will get screwed the least -- they have the Democrats to run interference for them when business attacks the middle class..

Democrats don't abuse government power to support the working man; they abuse government power to pay back supporting organizations like unions who make big donations and guarantee Dem votes.

And FTR, I oppose any party doing that. The purpose of government is (supposed to be) fulfilling Constitutional mandates, not ensuring the party currently in power stays in power.

 

[The Infidel]

Jesus you are stupid "Liberty".

Coming from a true dumbass

 

[The Infidel]

Kennedy...used his brother...

people like you killed the Kennedys

and one Kennedy in particular killed a lady

 

[The Infidel]

 

[daveman]

Kennedy...used his brother...

people like you killed the Kennedys

and one Kennedy in particular killed a lady

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

When President Kennedy was assassinated in 1963, his brother Ted was already a Senator (Jack's old seat). Jack was Ted's idol. He dedicated his public life to fulfill the aspirations his brothers had for America. So if JFK and Bobby were not liberals., than neither was Ted.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Kennedy...used his brother...

people like you killed the Kennedys

and one Kennedy in particular killed a lady

a car accident? laura bush killed somebody in a car accident too.


fuck off troll

 

[daveman]

people like you killed the Kennedys

and one Kennedy in particular killed a lady

a car accident? laura bush killed somebody in a car accident too.


fuck off troll

Laura Bush wasn't a politician elected and re-elected after her accident.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Actually, most unions back Dems because the Dems give them payback, like this bit of horseshit.

Looking out for the union working man? what is wrong with that? candidates and the elected officials promise pay back to veterans for their votes? what's wrong with that?

the GOP will be paying back the US Chamber of Commerce? what is wrong with that? Oh, you'll see...what is good for American Corporations is NOT always good for the American people -- the American worker. Everyone will get screwed, but union people will get screwed the least -- they have the Democrats to run interference for them when business attacks the middle class..

Democrats don't abuse government power to support the working man; they abuse government power to pay back supporting organizations like unions who make big donations and guarantee Dem votes.

And FTR, I oppose any party doing that. The purpose of government is (supposed to be) fulfilling Constitutional mandates, not ensuring the party currently in power stays in power.

Unions represent working men and women. Fact.

The purpose of government is to do what the people want it to do. Constitutional mandates?