Prayer

[there4eyeM]

Have you tried an S.M.S.?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Again, God's answer to prayer:
1.YES
2.NO
3. WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT.

And if you think God has the greatest job in the universe, acquaint yourself with his children!
Sometimes my Dad would look at my brother and I, shake his poor head and say, "I should have raised collies"........

 

[Avatar4321]

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are his children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work, and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings. (Bible Dictionary - Prayer)

Best commentary I've seen on prayer. Prayer becomes more powerful as we come to know God better and understand what we need to ask for.

 

[there4eyeM]

"Sorry, but I can't answer for the moment. Please try again later."

 

[there4eyeM]

The more one understands God, the less one asks.

 

[onecut39]

The more one understands God, the less one asks.

You got that right! If one did the same thing over and over and got the same negative result continuing that behavior would be nuts since that is one definition of insanity.

 

[onecut39]

Again, God's answer to prayer:
1.YES
2.NO
3. WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT.

And if you think God has the greatest job in the universe, acquaint yourself with his children!
Sometimes my Dad would look at my brother and I, shake his poor head and say, "I should have raised collies"........

Got any statistics on the frequency of each of those answers?

If not, why not?

(I tend to agree with your dad)

 

[The Irish Ram]

Do you have any stats on the frequency of unanswered prayer that you base your unflattering opinion of God on?

 

[Avatar4321]

The more one understands God, the less one asks.

You don't understand God. Because He does give liberally.

 

[Steelplate]

one thing I don't understand is why people think that living shouldn't include suffering. Hard times tend to teach valuable lessons....or at least the opportunity for valuable lessons.

An example that always comes to mind for me is when that guy shot up the Amish school in 2006, killing 5 students and the shooter. The Amish not only forgave the shooter, but opened up their hearts to the shooter's widow, knowing that she and her children were suffering too.

That taught me a big lesson in what love really means and even though I fall short of that level for much smaller reasons...I do try to be a better man because if those people's actions.

 

[The Irish Ram]

onecut, is your opinion of prayer due to personally unanswered prayer?

 

[onecut39]

onecut, is your opinion of prayer due to personally unanswered prayer?

No. I am an atheist. I don't pray and am never disappointed. I just think it kind of amusing to watch the devout try to justify the lord's indifference.

Facts are facts and the lord is stingy indeed with answered prayers. You are far more likely to get hit by the lord's lightning than to receive a positive answer to your prayer.

 

[uscitizen]

I believe more in personal responsibility than asking anyone for anything.

 

[onecut39]

The more one understands God, the less one asks.

Shows sense. No sense asking for what you will never get.

 

[onecut39]

Do you have any stats on the frequency of unanswered prayer that you base your unflattering opinion of God on?

My wife has been active in the church all her life. She is a member of a prayer chain. They pray for the sick and the injured and what not.There has never been a prayer that saved the terminally ill or the fatally injured, or saved a sick child or prevented an accident..

Of course the church doctrine itself says this will not be so. God is not responsible for sickness, "natural disasters" and anyone's free will.

That may not be god's word but it has certainly come to be church doctrine. Do you dispute this? Why do people pray for things that their very own doctrine says god will not grant? Few "Christians" know anything about their religion beyond the scattered, out of context verses presented in sermons.

We have statistics for everything else, but none on prayer. Can you think of a more compelling reason to join the faith?

Or a less compelling one?

 

[onecut39]

For the Irish Ram:

Your question about prayer statistics sent me on a small search of the web. We both know that asking a religious person if prayer has been answered is a fruitless task for as you, and others, point out a negative result is credited as being an "answer", as god giving us what we should have rather than what we want. This is carried to the ludicrous extreme of being grateful that God took little Johnny "home" to heaven to be with god.

So even if there were statistics they would be worthless.

There have been studies about belief and bodily heath, recovery from illness and injury etc.

It has been accepted that belief will aid in such recoveries and the religious have jumped on these studies as "proof" of God's intervention. These studies are made difficult by the fact that there are so many more religious people than the opposite.

In studies where there were comparisons the results are not so good. It is established that those who have "something to live for" do better than those who don't. This of course is mainly family. Those of religious belief without family don't do too well at all possibly because they would just as soon "go home" to god'

So it is established that belief in something will aid in recovery if it is accompanied by another reason to live. What that something is appears to be irrelevant and seems to apply to all beliefs be they Christian or Wiccan. Actually a simple firm belief that one will get better seems to be sufficient.

It seems that belief is important. What the belief is seems to be not so important. A firm unwavering belief that the tooth fairy will pull you through would seem as good as any other belief. As the saying goes, "You gotta believe", appears to have merit. What you believe in? Not so much

 

[Avatar4321]

one thing I don't understand is why people think that living shouldn't include suffering. Hard times tend to teach valuable lessons....or at least the opportunity for valuable lessons.

An example that always comes to mind for me is when that guy shot up the Amish school in 2006, killing 5 students and the shooter. The Amish not only forgave the shooter, but opened up their hearts to the shooter's widow, knowing that she and her children were suffering too.

That taught me a big lesson in what love really means and even though I fall short of that level for much smaller reasons...I do try to be a better man because if those people's actions.

Some people will do and believe anything to convince themselves they arent accountable to God. It's human nature. The natural man is an enemy to God and has been so since the fall of Adam and will be forever until he puts off the natural man and yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit."

But suffering isnt necessary bad. I used to lift weights regularly. I would get stronger because of the opposition from the weights. It hurt. You could say it was "suffering" but it was for my own good.

It's not suffering thats good or bad, it's what we become because of that suffering that is good or bad.

 

[Avatar4321]

onecut, is your opinion of prayer due to personally unanswered prayer?

No. I am an atheist. I don't pray and am never disappointed. I just think it kind of amusing to watch the devout try to justify the lord's indifference.

Facts are facts and the lord is stingy indeed with answered prayers. You are far more likely to get hit by the lord's lightning than to receive a positive answer to your prayer.

So you are trying to lecture people on something you have no experience with? And you think this is wise because...?

The Lord is hardly indifferent. He is very active in the world. He answers my prayers. Ive seen Him answer the prayers of others. His hand is actively working in the world around us.

You'd realize this if you actually had real experience.

 

[onecut39]

onecut, is your opinion of prayer due to personally unanswered prayer?

No. I am an atheist. I don't pray and am never disappointed. I just think it kind of amusing to watch the devout try to justify the lord's indifference.

Facts are facts and the lord is stingy indeed with answered prayers. You are far more likely to get hit by the lord's lightning than to receive a positive answer to your prayer.

So you are trying to lecture people on something you have no experience with? And you think this is wise because...?

The Lord is hardly indifferent. He is very active in the world. He answers my prayers. Ive seen Him answer the prayers of others. His hand is actively working in the world around us.

You'd realize this if you actually had real experience.

If the lord is active in our affairs all I can say is "God help us". Of course he never has or if he has he is the supreme incompetent.

Are you really willing to ascribe the condition of the world to god's will?

Of course not you need a cop out.

 

[onecut39]

one thing I don't understand is why people think that living shouldn't include suffering. Hard times tend to teach valuable lessons....or at least the opportunity for valuable lessons.

An example that always comes to mind for me is when that guy shot up the Amish school in 2006, killing 5 students and the shooter. The Amish not only forgave the shooter, but opened up their hearts to the shooter's widow, knowing that she and her children were suffering too.

That taught me a big lesson in what love really means and even though I fall short of that level for much smaller reasons...I do try to be a better man because if those people's actions.

Some people will do and believe anything to convince themselves they arent accountable to God. It's human nature. The natural man is an enemy to God and has been so since the fall of Adam and will be forever until he puts off the natural man and yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit."

But suffering isnt necessary bad. I used to lift weights regularly. I would get stronger because of the opposition from the weights. It hurt. You could say it was "suffering" but it was for my own good.

It's not suffering thats good or bad, it's what we become because of that suffering that is good or bad.

Suffering by choice has absolutely nothing to do with prayer. Perhaps you are simply a masochist?