Prayer

[The Irish Ram]

one, proove that answered prayer is a fluke.
Is it your contention that the answer NO to prayer is the absence of an answer?
If you pray for a million dollars and don't get it, does that mean God ignored you or did he say, "no"?

 

[Gadawg73]

Religion is evil.

Simple as that.

Always has been..always will be.

People can be evil.
All religion amounts to are beliefs.

 

[Gadawg73]

one, proove that answered prayer is a fluke.
Is it your contention that the answer NO to prayer is the absence of an answer?
If you pray for a million dollars and don't get it, does that mean God ignored you or did he say, "no"?

Religion is beliefs and NO ONE can disprove my religous beliefs.
Or yours.
And no one can ever prove any religous beliefs.

 

[onecut39]

one, proove that answered prayer is a fluke.
Is it your contention that the answer NO to prayer is the absence of an answer?
If you pray for a million dollars and don't get it, does that mean God ignored you or did he say, "no"?

In the real world, the one without the copouts and rationalizations, requesting something and not getting it would be considered a negative response.

Unless you are nuts!

 

[Avatar4321]

If the lord is active in our affairs all I can say is "God help us". Of course he never has or if he has he is the supreme incompetent.

Are you really willing to ascribe the condition of the world to god's will?

Of course not you need a cop out.

I can testify that He has and does help us all the time. Unfortunately, many among us, such as yourself, are ignoring what's right in front of your eyes.

I know, by the grace of God, that not only does He live but He is active in events throughout the world. You don't see it now, but the time will soon come when the whole world will see it. I've studied history and I can see His hand throughout the events occuring in all parts of the world. These events are leading up to the final scene which will be growing to a crecendo soon.

The Spirit has revealed to me this is true. I've been healed by physically and spiritually by the atonement of Jesus Christ. It's real and soon you will see it yourself. I hope it's to your benefit rather than your detriment. Because when the Lord touches your live and changes your heart, you are never the same again.

 

[Avatar4321]

one thing I don't understand is why people think that living shouldn't include suffering. Hard times tend to teach valuable lessons....or at least the opportunity for valuable lessons.

An example that always comes to mind for me is when that guy shot up the Amish school in 2006, killing 5 students and the shooter. The Amish not only forgave the shooter, but opened up their hearts to the shooter's widow, knowing that she and her children were suffering too.

That taught me a big lesson in what love really means and even though I fall short of that level for much smaller reasons...I do try to be a better man because if those people's actions.

Some people will do and believe anything to convince themselves they arent accountable to God. It's human nature. The natural man is an enemy to God and has been so since the fall of Adam and will be forever until he puts off the natural man and yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit."

But suffering isnt necessary bad. I used to lift weights regularly. I would get stronger because of the opposition from the weights. It hurt. You could say it was "suffering" but it was for my own good.

It's not suffering thats good or bad, it's what we become because of that suffering that is good or bad.

Suffering by choice has absolutely nothing to do with prayer. Perhaps you are simply a masochist?

You missed the point. Suffering is not, in and of itself, evil and bad.

 

[Avatar4321]

one, proove that answered prayer is a fluke.
Is it your contention that the answer NO to prayer is the absence of an answer?
If you pray for a million dollars and don't get it, does that mean God ignored you or did he say, "no"?

If it proves anything, it proves that the asker doesnt understand the purpose of prayer or how God works.

 

[Avatar4321]

one, proove that answered prayer is a fluke.
Is it your contention that the answer NO to prayer is the absence of an answer?
If you pray for a million dollars and don't get it, does that mean God ignored you or did he say, "no"?

In the real world, the one without the copouts and rationalizations, requesting something and not getting it would be considered a negative response.

Unless you are nuts!

So you're in agreement that all it shows is that the answer is no, and not that there is no God.

If I ask you for a million dollars, and you dont give it to me, did you cease to exist?

 

[onecut39]

Some people will do and believe anything to convince themselves they arent accountable to God. It's human nature. The natural man is an enemy to God and has been so since the fall of Adam and will be forever until he puts off the natural man and yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit."

But suffering isnt necessary bad. I used to lift weights regularly. I would get stronger because of the opposition from the weights. It hurt. You could say it was "suffering" but it was for my own good.

It's not suffering thats good or bad, it's what we become because of that suffering that is good or bad.

Suffering by choice has absolutely nothing to do with prayer. Perhaps you are simply a masochist?

You missed the point. Suffering is not, in and of itself, evil and bad.

You will find very few people outside of masochists who find suffering good. It may be necessary at times but it is never good. Often it is simply paying the price for whatever but I have never found anyone (outside of masochists) who enjoy it.

 

[onecut39]

one, proove that answered prayer is a fluke.
Is it your contention that the answer NO to prayer is the absence of an answer?
If you pray for a million dollars and don't get it, does that mean God ignored you or did he say, "no"?

In the real world, the one without the copouts and rationalizations, requesting something and not getting it would be considered a negative response.

Unless you are nuts!

So you're in agreement that all it shows is that the answer is no, and not that there is no God.

If I ask you for a million dollars, and you dont give it to me, did you cease to exist?

I cannot show there is no god. Proving a negative is impossible. If the answer is indeed no then why pray? A negative response is useless and so is the god that gives it.

 

[onecut39]

one, proove that answered prayer is a fluke.
Is it your contention that the answer NO to prayer is the absence of an answer?
If you pray for a million dollars and don't get it, does that mean God ignored you or did he say, "no"?

Religion is beliefs and NO ONE can disprove my religous beliefs.
Or yours.
And no one can ever prove any religous beliefs.

You are right. If something does exist it is provable by objective fact and observation. Don't ever try to prove your belief as there is not one objective fact to support it.

That being said I hope you find happiness in your beliefs, just don't tout them as fact.

 

[onecut39]

one thing I don't understand is why people think that living shouldn't include suffering. Hard times tend to teach valuable lessons....or at least the opportunity for valuable lessons.

An example that always comes to mind for me is when that guy shot up the Amish school in 2006, killing 5 students and the shooter. The Amish not only forgave the shooter, but opened up their hearts to the shooter's widow, knowing that she and her children were suffering too.

That taught me a big lesson in what love really means and even though I fall short of that level for much smaller reasons...I do try to be a better man because if those people's actions.

Some people will do and believe anything to convince themselves they arent accountable to God. It's human nature. The natural man is an enemy to God and has been so since the fall of Adam and will be forever until he puts off the natural man and yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit."

But suffering isnt necessary bad. I used to lift weights regularly. I would get stronger because of the opposition from the weights. It hurt. You could say it was "suffering" but it was for my own good.

It's not suffering thats good or bad, it's what we become because of that suffering that is good or bad.

So god created a natural enemy? That was dumb. Why doesn't he fix it? To think that man can be a natural enemy to the all powerful omniscient god is ridiculous.

Just think, God knows what was and what will be therefore he knew he was creating a natural enemy. Double dumb.

 

[The Irish Ram]

God saw the end from the beginning and felt we, his children, were worth it. He bet His life on it.
And He has every intention of fixing "IT" for good. When the time is right.

 

[onecut39]

God saw the end from the beginning and felt we, his children, were worth it. He bet His life on it.
And He has every intention of fixing "IT" for good. When the time is right.

Do you realize just how illogical all that is?

God created imperfection so that it might become perfect?

How does an eternal all powerful being bet his life on anything?

 

[Avatar4321]

Suffering by choice has absolutely nothing to do with prayer. Perhaps you are simply a masochist?

You missed the point. Suffering is not, in and of itself, evil and bad.

You will find very few people outside of masochists who find suffering good. It may be necessary at times but it is never good. Often it is simply paying the price for whatever but I have never found anyone (outside of masochists) who enjoy it.

I was unaware that going to a gym made one a masochist. I suppose in some cases that might be true. But I think most of the time its because people see the value of doing difficult things and enduring pain to reach a point of greater strength and health.

 

[Avatar4321]

I cannot show there is no god. Proving a negative is impossible. If the answer is indeed no then why pray? A negative response is useless and so is the god that gives it.

Why do children ask their parents for a cookie if the answer could be no? Because 1) The answer might be yes 2) it's the right thing to do.

A negative answer isnt useless. Often, it's quite instructive if you allow it to be.

For example, A child asks his father if he can touch the stove while it's on. He says No. Was that a useless answer? Or was it an answer designed to give the child guidence?

We have negative responses in conversations with almost everyone we talk to in the world. Does it mean that it's useless to talk to them? That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Avatar4321]

one thing I don't understand is why people think that living shouldn't include suffering. Hard times tend to teach valuable lessons....or at least the opportunity for valuable lessons.

An example that always comes to mind for me is when that guy shot up the Amish school in 2006, killing 5 students and the shooter. The Amish not only forgave the shooter, but opened up their hearts to the shooter's widow, knowing that she and her children were suffering too.

That taught me a big lesson in what love really means and even though I fall short of that level for much smaller reasons...I do try to be a better man because if those people's actions.

Some people will do and believe anything to convince themselves they arent accountable to God. It's human nature. The natural man is an enemy to God and has been so since the fall of Adam and will be forever until he puts off the natural man and yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit."

But suffering isnt necessary bad. I used to lift weights regularly. I would get stronger because of the opposition from the weights. It hurt. You could say it was "suffering" but it was for my own good.

It's not suffering thats good or bad, it's what we become because of that suffering that is good or bad.

So god created a natural enemy? That was dumb. Why doesn't he fix it? To think that man can be a natural enemy to the all powerful omniscient god is ridiculous.

Just think, God knows what was and what will be therefore he knew he was creating a natural enemy. Double dumb.

In our fallen state we are an enemy to God. That's the whole point of the Atonement. So we can be born again as Son of God.

Can we being unholy, be anything but a natural enemy to Him who is Holy?

 

[Avatar4321]

one, proove that answered prayer is a fluke.
Is it your contention that the answer NO to prayer is the absence of an answer?
If you pray for a million dollars and don't get it, does that mean God ignored you or did he say, "no"?

Religion is beliefs and NO ONE can disprove my religous beliefs.
Or yours.
And no one can ever prove any religous beliefs.

You are right. If something does exist it is provable by objective fact and observation. Don't ever try to prove your belief as there is not one objective fact to support it.

That being said I hope you find happiness in your beliefs, just don't tout them as fact.

That's a bunch of nonsense. So if something is not provable by objective fact and observation, then it's not true?

A murders B. Despite a thorough investigation there is no objective evidence to link A to the crime. Therefore, A didn't kill B.

Do you know how stupid that sounds? There are lots of things in the world that are true that no objective fact or observation supports. Are you suggesting that cells didn't exist before we had a microscope to look at them? Or maybe Jupiter had no moons till we had a telescope to observe them.

Discoveries are made all the time proving things that were unimaginable, unknown, and unthinkable even as short as a few years ago.

Let's revisit the A B Murder. C witnesses A murder B. There is no other evidence tying A to the crime. Since what C eye-witness is subjective, you're logic dictates that A still didn't commit the crime.

Are you really sure you want to keep arguing this position?

 

[there4eyeM]

If one believes in God as God would have to be, then one would know that everything is God and in God. God, being permanent, would be and know all. There would be nothing to ask as we would know God knew.
Any change we detected we would have to assume is something we are projecting onto God's screen. Our temporary and limited ego might be the source of feeling need, but that would only be illusory if we really know God. So, the only use for prayer is for reminding the ego of its place, not really asking for what God already knows.

Of course, again, if one does not know God, there would be no prayer for things. If 'God' does not exist, there is no more sense to asking than sending letters to the North Pole.

 

[onecut39]

I cannot show there is no god. Proving a negative is impossible. If the answer is indeed no then why pray? A negative response is useless and so is the god that gives it.

Why do children ask their parents for a cookie if the answer could be no? Because 1) The answer might be yes 2) it's the right thing to do.

A negative answer isnt useless. Often, it's quite instructive if you allow it to be.

For example, A child asks his father if he can touch the stove while it's on. He says No. Was that a useless answer? Or was it an answer designed to give the child guidence?

We have negative responses in conversations with almost everyone we talk to in the world. Does it mean that it's useless to talk to them? That makes no sense whatsoever.

rationalization piled on rationalization.