Pot legalization leads by 10 in CA

[rikules]

who would have thunk it five years ago...

soon i will be able to smoke a joint while sleeping with my new hubbie...

only in california!!

thanks arnold.

I believe Alaska has legal pot in small quantities

yes?
no?

 

[topspin]

Legalizing pot is the best thing we could do economically and socially in the last 50 years.

 

[johnrocks]

Legalizing pot is the best thing we could do economically and socially in the last 50 years.

That,ending the war on drugs, legalizing hemp would be economically beneficial but also that with ending the welfare state would go a long ways toward solving the illegal immigration problem.

 

[topspin]

you could prob give free healthcare to the bottom 30% with taxes from pot. Shore up the boarder and unemployment plummets.

 

[Ragnar]

Legalizing pot is the best thing we could do economically and socially in the last 50 years.

OK, I'm for doing something better than the status quo be it legalization or even just decriminalization. But the above statement is grossly stupid.

Your joking or your stoned right now. (in which case, never mind... rock on dude)

Stoner buzz kill! Do not watch:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzoXQKumgCw]YouTube - Is The Government Spying On Schizophrenics Enough?[/ame]

 

[MikeK]

Obama is on record as saying he's for the states deciding. It'd be kinda hard for hit to send holder in after Prop 19 passes.

I seem to remember something about closing Gitmo, and ending the US presence in Iraq too... Politicians are weak and leaky vessels for placing much trust or hope in.

I must regrettably agree -- and add that anything Obama says is subject to being reversed or ignored. He talks a lot but his promises, whether clearly issued or implied, are not reliable.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Oh cut the drama, the judge ruled that the law violated the federal constitution, so it was thrown out. Agree with him or not this is not new precedent.

then it should not have been on the ballot in the first place.....when 60-70% of the voters approve something and the losers sue and get it overtuned.....it does make you feel like ....why vote...and this has happened a few times out here.....

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Great, hope it passes! Anyone who supports State's rights or individual rights should support it, it would be a gigantic middle finger to the Feds!

John that is as bogus of an argument for legalization of drugs as saying radar detectors in cars promote driving safety. Both arguments have been used when everyone knows what's really behind such statements.

What the hell are you talking about?

Uh...put the bong away.

 

[johnrocks]

Great, hope it passes! Anyone who supports State's rights or individual rights should support it, it would be a gigantic middle finger to the Feds!

John that is as bogus of an argument for legalization of drugs as saying radar detectors in cars promote driving safety. Both arguments have been used when everyone knows what's really behind such statements.

What Federal authority do the Feds have in this matter per the Constitution? At least the alcohol prohibitions convinced America to pass the 18th because they felt like it was not Constitutional unless an Amendment was passed.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Great, hope it passes! Anyone who supports State's rights or individual rights should support it, it would be a gigantic middle finger to the Feds!

John that is as bogus of an argument for legalization of drugs as saying radar detectors in cars promote driving safety. Both arguments have been used when everyone knows what's really behind such statements.

What Federal authority do the Feds have in this matter per the Constitution? At least the alcohol prohibitions convinced America to pass the 18th because they felt like it was not Constitutional unless an Amendment was passed.

It's a narcotic and the Federal Government has the authority to control it. Booze isn't.

 

[taichiliberal]

Catch what your saying......you are indirectly acknowledging that marijuana has inherent dangers, just not as dangerous as alcohol.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT I STATED. The difference between you and me is that I'm not willing to add on another problem to society for spite.

anything has inherent dangers if you overindulge.....and that problem to society you mention.....has been here quite awhile....and its not spite.....its called Hypocrisy....

Yes, there is a hypocrisy in a crowd that institutionalizes one drug but demonizes another....problem is that alcohol has already run the gambit of prohibition...which led to the rise of organized crime. So now we've live with constant DWI accidents, booze fueled violence, booze caused deteriorating health, etc., etc.

For some bizarre reason, marijuana just doesn't muster the same organized crime fuel that alcohol did during the time of Prohibition.....I attribute it to the almost painful ease to which anyone can grow quality smokes and obtain the seeds to do so, as opposed to various and dubious quality of home made booze.

But make no mistake.... legalizing pot will introduce a whole new level of problems that comes with people "legally" getting stoned that parallels what we are now dealing with regarding alcohol. IMHO, it's just not worth it. Perhaps just a level decrimialization would be a good compromise?

 

[taichiliberal]

Catch what your saying......you are indirectly acknowledging that marijuana has inherent dangers, just not as dangerous as alcohol.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT I STATED. The difference between you and me is that I'm not willing to add on another problem to society for spite.

anything has inherent dangers if you overindulge.....and that problem to society you mention.....has been here quite awhile....and its not spite.....its called Hypocrisy....

Bottom line: alcohol is institutionalized in our society.....and as a society we ACCEPT the level of violence, accidents, deaths, individual/family disruption and decay and illness associated/attributed with alcohol.

I cannot see the rational in adding another level of institutionalized drugs into our society when we cannot handle the one we've got beyond a certain point.

You clearly are not a stupid person so I'll attribute that defective argument to manifest ignorance. And I suggest that you make use of the following link to educate yourself on the topic of marijuana.

Annual Causes of Death in the United States | Drug War Facts

And since your link DOES NOT address the issues of increased usage among the population, increased levels of people being stoned at their various jobs, or missing work or becoming incompetant, etc. Also, there's nothing in your link about the effects of long term use of marijuana.....you don't have to die in order to be adversely affected by a drug, you know.

Yes, decriminalization would put a serious crimp in profit for the criminal element, but it would NOT eliminate it.....as any pot grower would tell you, they don't need the gov't version of what they can personally do better. Inadvertently, you create a small criminal class that would still be prosecuted....

Next time, Mikey...just present your case and lay off the sarcasm and condescending attitude, because you'll look less foolish when someone takes the wind out of your sails, as I did here.

 

[Ragnar]

Catch what your saying......you are indirectly acknowledging that marijuana has inherent dangers, just not as dangerous as alcohol.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT I STATED. The difference between you and me is that I'm not willing to add on another problem to society for spite.

anything has inherent dangers if you overindulge.....and that problem to society you mention.....has been here quite awhile....and its not spite.....its called Hypocrisy....

Yes, there is a hypocrisy in a crowd that institutionalizes one drug but demonizes another....problem is that alcohol has already run the gambit of prohibition...which led to the rise of organized crime. So now we've live with constant DWI accidents, booze fueled violence, booze caused deteriorating health, etc., etc.

For some bizarre reason, marijuana just doesn't muster the same organized crime fuel that alcohol did during the time of Prohibition.....I attribute it to the almost painful ease to which anyone can grow quality smokes and obtain the seeds to do so, as opposed to various and dubious quality of home made booze.

But make no mistake.... legalizing pot will introduce a whole new level of problems that comes with people "legally" getting stoned that parallels what we are now dealing with regarding alcohol. IMHO, it's just not worth it. Perhaps just a level decrimialization would be a good compromise?

As a pot smoker, and an "adult" (of sorts) I've been trying to slowly help get this point across.

I do not agree that the problems that WILL come with "legal" pot will parallel the current problems that we have (and have had) with alcohol all these decades. To be honest I do not think it will come even close. However, anyone pretending weed is harmless is talking out their ass, if not smoking their Mary Jane that way so in any case... moronic.

You nailed part of the problem man. The folks that think, "dude...tax and regulate dis dope" are the same kind of fools who think "tax and regulate" is the answer to everything on Earth. I've tried making my own beer, wine in a box and buying loose leaf tobacco for rolling my own cigarettes (I had the papers and rollers anyway ) and that stuff is a pain in the ass. I've grown my own cannabis and it's EASY.

You can't just slap a giant tax on whatever Camel brand cannabis rolls off the line once the stuff is legal. The thing about weed is... it grows like a friggin' weed. Of course decriminalization would help and obvioulsy some effective legal controls will have to come about to keep kids, drivers and airline pilots off the crap when needed. But it's not a giant tax machine and it will not solve... well anything at all except maybe keeping innocent non-violent all around OK folks from legal Hell and maybe jail.

End of rant... legal weed would cause some problems but likely fall pretty close to right in-between all the problems of alcohol and all of the "problems" of normal cigarette's.

Just my humble O

 

[Father Time]

Catch what your saying......you are indirectly acknowledging that marijuana has inherent dangers, just not as dangerous as alcohol.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT I STATED. The difference between you and me is that I'm not willing to add on another problem to society for spite.

anything has inherent dangers if you overindulge.....and that problem to society you mention.....has been here quite awhile....and its not spite.....its called Hypocrisy....

Yes, there is a hypocrisy in a crowd that institutionalizes one drug but demonizes another....problem is that alcohol has already run the gambit of prohibition...which led to the rise of organized crime. So now we've live with constant DWI accidents, booze fueled violence, booze caused deteriorating health, etc., etc.

For some bizarre reason, marijuana just doesn't muster the same organized crime fuel that alcohol did during the time of Prohibition

Proof? From what I read it seems to make plenty of money for gangs.

But make no mistake.... legalizing pot will introduce a whole new level of problems that comes with people "legally" getting stoned that parallels what we are now dealing with regarding alcohol.

Oh no some people will choose to abuse them cue dramatic music. To say this is a good enough reason to imprison people who don't abuse it is akin to saying a man can't eat steak because a baby can't chew it (thank you Mark Twain).

IMHO, it's just not worth it. Perhaps just a level decrimialization would be a good compromise?

Which would mean what?

 

[Father Time]

anything has inherent dangers if you overindulge.....and that problem to society you mention.....has been here quite awhile....and its not spite.....its called Hypocrisy....

Yes, there is a hypocrisy in a crowd that institutionalizes one drug but demonizes another....problem is that alcohol has already run the gambit of prohibition...which led to the rise of organized crime. So now we've live with constant DWI accidents, booze fueled violence, booze caused deteriorating health, etc., etc.

For some bizarre reason, marijuana just doesn't muster the same organized crime fuel that alcohol did during the time of Prohibition.....I attribute it to the almost painful ease to which anyone can grow quality smokes and obtain the seeds to do so, as opposed to various and dubious quality of home made booze.

But make no mistake.... legalizing pot will introduce a whole new level of problems that comes with people "legally" getting stoned that parallels what we are now dealing with regarding alcohol. IMHO, it's just not worth it. Perhaps just a level decrimialization would be a good compromise?

As a pot smoker, and an "adult" (of sorts) I've been trying to slowly help get this point across.

I do not agree that the problems that WILL come with "legal" pot will parallel the current problems that we have (and have had) with alcohol all these decades. To be honest I do not think it will come even close. However, anyone pretending weed is harmless is talking out their ass, if not smoking their Mary Jane that way so in any case... moronic.

You nailed part of the problem man. The folks that think, "dude...tax and regulate dis dope" are the same kind of fools who think "tax and regulate" is the answer to everything on Earth. I've tried making my own beer, wine in a box and buying loose leaf tobacco for rolling my own cigarettes (I had the papers and rollers anyway ) and that stuff is a pain in the ass. I've grown my own cannabis and it's EASY.

You can't just slap a giant tax on whatever Camel brand cannabis rolls off the line once the stuff is legal. The thing about weed is... it grows like a friggin' weed. Of course decriminalization would help and obvioulsy some effective legal controls will have to come about to keep kids, drivers and airline pilots off the crap when needed. But it's not a giant tax machine and it will not solve... well anything at all except maybe keeping innocent non-violent all around OK folks from legal Hell and maybe jail.

End of rant... legal weed would cause some problems but likely fall pretty close to right in-between all the problems of alcohol and all of the "problems" of normal cigarette's.

Just my humble O

All right let's say it doesn't generate much in tax revenue.

We still save a ton of money on the war on drugs, and we can stop crowding our prisons with non-violent offenders.

So we can still save a ton of money.

Besides smoking weed shouldn't be a crime.

 

[Ragnar]

Yes, there is a hypocrisy in a crowd that institutionalizes one drug but demonizes another....problem is that alcohol has already run the gambit of prohibition...which led to the rise of organized crime. So now we've live with constant DWI accidents, booze fueled violence, booze caused deteriorating health, etc., etc.

For some bizarre reason, marijuana just doesn't muster the same organized crime fuel that alcohol did during the time of Prohibition.....I attribute it to the almost painful ease to which anyone can grow quality smokes and obtain the seeds to do so, as opposed to various and dubious quality of home made booze.

But make no mistake.... legalizing pot will introduce a whole new level of problems that comes with people "legally" getting stoned that parallels what we are now dealing with regarding alcohol. IMHO, it's just not worth it. Perhaps just a level decrimialization would be a good compromise?

As a pot smoker, and an "adult" (of sorts) I've been trying to slowly help get this point across.

I do not agree that the problems that WILL come with "legal" pot will parallel the current problems that we have (and have had) with alcohol all these decades. To be honest I do not think it will come even close. However, anyone pretending weed is harmless is talking out their ass, if not smoking their Mary Jane that way so in any case... moronic.

You nailed part of the problem man. The folks that think, "dude...tax and regulate dis dope" are the same kind of fools who think "tax and regulate" is the answer to everything on Earth. I've tried making my own beer, wine in a box and buying loose leaf tobacco for rolling my own cigarettes (I had the papers and rollers anyway ) and that stuff is a pain in the ass. I've grown my own cannabis and it's EASY.

You can't just slap a giant tax on whatever Camel brand cannabis rolls off the line once the stuff is legal. The thing about weed is... it grows like a friggin' weed. Of course decriminalization would help and obvioulsy some effective legal controls will have to come about to keep kids, drivers and airline pilots off the crap when needed. But it's not a giant tax machine and it will not solve... well anything at all except maybe keeping innocent non-violent all around OK folks from legal Hell and maybe jail.

End of rant... legal weed would cause some problems but likely fall pretty close to right in-between all the problems of alcohol and all of the "problems" of normal cigarette's.

Just my humble O

All right let's say it doesn't generate much in tax revenue.

We still save a ton of money on the war on drugs, and we can stop crowding our prisons with non-violent offenders.

So we can still save a ton of money.

Besides smoking weed shouldn't be a crime.

Yes, yes and yes.

That's partly why I thought Sarah Palin (of all people) had some good thoughts on the earlier vids. Just IMHO but she does not get quite enough cred for being a Western US libertarian/conservative as opposed to a southern conservative type.

Yeah, to me, one of hte biggest points is the god awful waste that is the "war on drugs".

This thread has been just a little too "reefer madness vs reefer goddess" for my taste so I hope I have not been doing too much fence sitting. Folks should know, an adult tokin' up and minding his own is cool and the gang yo. But lets not pretend that same adult does not have a philisophical problem to deal with at the same time.

All mind altering and mind farking methods are escapist at best. The real world ought to rule... even if some of us (mostly me) stumble from time to time with it.

 

[editec]

John that is as bogus of an argument for legalization of drugs as saying radar detectors in cars promote driving safety. Both arguments have been used when everyone knows what's really behind such statements.

What Federal authority do the Feds have in this matter per the Constitution? At least the alcohol prohibitions convinced America to pass the 18th because they felt like it was not Constitutional unless an Amendment was passed.

It's a narcotic and the Federal Government has the authority to control it. Booze isn't.

Marijuana is not a narcotic.

 

[topspin]

anything has inherent dangers if you overindulge.....and that problem to society you mention.....has been here quite awhile....and its not spite.....its called Hypocrisy....

Yes, there is a hypocrisy in a crowd that institutionalizes one drug but demonizes another....problem is that alcohol has already run the gambit of prohibition...which led to the rise of organized crime. So now we've live with constant DWI accidents, booze fueled violence, booze caused deteriorating health, etc., etc.

For some bizarre reason, marijuana just doesn't muster the same organized crime fuel that alcohol did during the time of Prohibition.....I attribute it to the almost painful ease to which anyone can grow quality smokes and obtain the seeds to do so, as opposed to various and dubious quality of home made booze.

But make no mistake.... legalizing pot will introduce a whole new level of problems that comes with people "legally" getting stoned that parallels what we are now dealing with regarding alcohol. IMHO, it's just not worth it. Perhaps just a level decrimialization would be a good compromise?

As a pot smoker, and an "adult" (of sorts) I've been trying to slowly help get this point across.

I do not agree that the problems that WILL come with "legal" pot will parallel the current problems that we have (and have had) with alcohol all these decades. To be honest I do not think it will come even close. However, anyone pretending weed is harmless is talking out their ass, if not smoking their Mary Jane that way so in any case... moronic.

You nailed part of the problem man. The folks that think, "dude...tax and regulate dis dope" are the same kind of fools who think "tax and regulate" is the answer to everything on Earth. I've tried making my own beer, wine in a box and buying loose leaf tobacco for rolling my own cigarettes (I had the papers and rollers anyway ) and that stuff is a pain in the ass. I've grown my own cannabis and it's EASY.

You can't just slap a giant tax on whatever Camel brand cannabis rolls off the line once the stuff is legal. The thing about weed is... it grows like a friggin' weed. Of course decriminalization would help and obvioulsy some effective legal controls will have to come about to keep kids, drivers and airline pilots off the crap when needed. But it's not a giant tax machine and it will not solve... well anything at all except maybe keeping innocent non-violent all around OK folks from legal Hell and maybe jail.

End of rant... legal weed would cause some problems but likely fall pretty close to right in-between all the problems of alcohol and all of the "problems" of normal cigarette's.

Just my humble O

I'm an adult smoker and I say your woefully unread on the topic. I'll stick to economist on how much tax can be had. More problems than cigarettes that's not worthy of a GED level of thought. Child please

 

[washamericom]

legalizing the herb will be good in so many ways. economically, leading the pack of good logic. for those that argue that access will be easier for kids, not so much.
seperate it's classification from crank, crack and heroin first. it's not like any of those. it's way safer than booze.
if anyone thinks that it's hard to score weed now, it's not. high school kids have the best weed now. the positive money flow and control and decrease in crime, would be an immediate benefit.
education is the place to sttart. besides larry king couldn't even tell that willie nelson had a few pokes before his interview, who doesn't like willie the j ? but he said he might not enjot it. as whacky as california is, they got this one right.

 

[johnrocks]

John that is as bogus of an argument for legalization of drugs as saying radar detectors in cars promote driving safety. Both arguments have been used when everyone knows what's really behind such statements.

What Federal authority do the Feds have in this matter per the Constitution? At least the alcohol prohibitions convinced America to pass the 18th because they felt like it was not Constitutional unless an Amendment was passed.

It's a narcotic and the Federal Government has the authority to control it. Booze isn't.

It's not a narcotic but even if it were, I don't see that as a Federal power, of course, you know my politics