Post a Message to Israels Future Here.

[AVG-JOE]

I learned a lot in my Jewish Democracy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum thread. Thanks if you participated.


Apparently, the 'boots on the ground' politics in the state of Israel do allow for voting representation for citizens, regardless of ethnicity and/or beliefs.

Kudos! ​

I'm learning that the problems in Israel have less to do with what religions various individuals practice, and more to do with the ongoing restrictions on the people living in the territory known as Gaza.

I've heard the situation there described as a military occupation, though no troops are quartered there permanently. IMHO the border restrictions alone, and being 100% surrounded by the Israeli military, has all the earmarks of an occupation.

In my brutally honest humble opinion, what's gone on in Gaza for my entire lifeTime now has been far worse than an occupation. As the years have dragged on with no political solution to the blockade, it has turned in to one population of Monkeys starving another population of Monkeys of Progress.

The Israelis may have had 'damn good' reasons to put the people who ended up in Gaza into that particular fenced-off sand-box at the time they did it, but all these years later it's become cruel.

 

[AVG-JOE]

`​

Unless The Israeli People can soon figure out a way to end their blockade and control of Gaza, by absorption or by freedom, the Jewish Democracy is going to end up on the wrong side of history on this.

The same could actually be said of the Monkeys calling the USA home and our collective relationship with the Monkeys of Cuba, but for once this isn't all about US.​

 

[Daniyel]

History is cruel, and I got plenty of information to share with you about why we do everything so at least you can judge yourself it was inevitable that when someone drive off a cliff - with all the fun all the way down - eventually he will die or at least pay for his stupidity.
Gaza was actually a territory of Israel, when Israel gave it back loads of rockets were shot against the Zionist Enemy, lots of arms were smuggled from Egypt, Nile, and the Sea, now consider the so called occupation Israel put on Gaza yet 1,000+ rockets been shot to Israel just within the past few weeks, they are not worried about education, welfare, or anything you probably have in mind, you are rational person, but consider that few hours driving there's a tribe of 1.5m 'freedom fighters' who doesn't really think about rational fate for themselves, they only think about kill as many possible Israelis, it been prove all over the years, nothing changed so far.
The same reason you build a fence around your house although all your neighbors are friendly - I'm pretty sure you will build a massive dome around it once you know your neighbor is planning to kill you, if you won't go and kill him first, which is what Israel was busy while Hamas was getting support an firepower (Iron Dome) , you must go out sometimes but you can't because once you leave the dome you made around your house, you are exposed to that neighbor, so eventually you will have to kill him and you won't wait for him to kill your family.
This is not easy to watch.

 

[amity1844]

Gaza was once just the southern coastal region of Palestine. There was nothing special about it until the Palestinians expelled from southern Israel had to have somewhere to go. So Israel put them in refugee camps in Gaza. Of course, they don't want to stay there, they want to go home, and so they are trying to destroy the regime that keeps Israel Jewish at their expense. This provides additional justification (in Zionist minds) for further land grabbing and expulsion.

My message to Israel's future would be ... you will one day, by one means or another, be secular and democratic.

 

[Daniyel]

Gaza was once just the southern coastal region of Palestine. There was nothing special about it until the Palestinians expelled from southern Israel had to have somewhere to go. So Israel put them in refugee camps in Gaza. Of course, they don't want to stay there, they want to go home, and so they are trying to destroy the regime that keeps Israel Jewish at their expense. This provides additional justification (in Zionist minds) for further land grabbing and expulsion.

My message to Israel's future would be ... you will one day, by one means or another, be secular and democratic.

"Removing" all Zionists means wiping the current population of Jews,and non-Jews who supported Israel of course -99% of the current population- get lost Amity.

 

[irosie91]

Gaza was once just the southern coastal region of Palestine. There was nothing special about it until the Palestinians expelled from southern Israel had to have somewhere to go. So Israel put them in refugee camps in Gaza. Of course, they don't want to stay there, they want to go home, and so they are trying to destroy the regime that keeps Israel Jewish at their expense. This provides additional justification (in Zionist minds) for further land grabbing and expulsion.

My message to Israel's future would be ... you will one day, by one means or another, be secular and democratic.

the history of gaza is more complex than that----but you have already demonstrated
that you know nothing about anything------the people who went to gaza do not have
to stay there if they do not want to be there. HUNDREDS of millions of people
have been displaced and managed not to kill people for it. Far more Bengali
hindus were displaced from the land stolen by muslims to become east Pakistan.

far more PARSEES were displaced from Iran because of Islamic invasion
I wonder why a person like you wants to talk about land grabbing?

how about a GENERAL WORLD WIDE resolution of historic "land grabbing".

the best news in the past decade was the RESTORATION of the temple of
rama to the hindus----AYODHIYA -----there is aways a chance that the city of yathrib can
be restored as a jewish city-------aenmity will work on it

 

[amity1844]

Gaza was once just the southern coastal region of Palestine. There was nothing special about it until the Palestinians expelled from southern Israel had to have somewhere to go. So Israel put them in refugee camps in Gaza. Of course, they don't want to stay there, they want to go home, and so they are trying to destroy the regime that keeps Israel Jewish at their expense. This provides additional justification (in Zionist minds) for further land grabbing and expulsion.

My message to Israel's future would be ... you will one day, by one means or another, be secular and democratic.

"Removing" all Zionists means wiping the current population of Jews,and non-Jews who supported Israel of course -99% of the current population- get lost Amity.

Who said "removing all Zionists?"

And what makes you think 99% of Israelis are Zionists? If you include Palestinian citizens I would be so surprised if it was more than 50%. Over 1/3 of Jewish Israelis now say they are not Zionist.

 

[amity1844]

And AVG-JOE, I hope you understand that boots-on-the-ground denial of civil rights to anyone who is not Jewish...

 

[Daniyel]

And AVG-JOE, I hope you understand that boots-on-the-ground denial of civil rights to anyone who is not Jewish...

It is JEW not JEWISH there is a difference, you can be Arab Jewish as well.
But yes we don't give a fuck about human rights.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And AVG-JOE, I hope you understand that boots-on-the-ground denial of civil rights to anyone who is not Jewish...

Of course I understand it. I'm the American Mutt.

Baby steps. ​

 

[amity1844]

And AVG-JOE, I hope you understand that boots-on-the-ground denial of civil rights to anyone who is not Jewish...

Of course I understand it. I'm the American Mutt.

Baby steps. ​

Waiting patiently ...

 

[AVG-JOE]

Obviously, the 'wrong side of history' is defined by any given Monkey's opinion of the membership, and, assembling lists is made all the easier by the dog-eat-dog way Sentience is clawing it's way out of Mother Earth's incredibly rich biosphere.




What next?


Does the future hold an endless blockade of Gaza?


Where do Israeli citizens see themselves in 10 years? In 150 years?

 

[Indeependent]

By far the largest group of people settling in Israel are young Modern Orthodox couples.
Yep, I just bet they'll push for a more secular, inclusive Israel.
For sure!

 

[irosie91]

By far the largest group of people settling in Israel are young Modern Orthodox couples.
Yep, I just bet they'll push for a more secular, inclusive Israel.
For sure!

they also seem to have the highest birth rate---my somewhat limited observation
is that they are something like a throw back to the monastic jews of the time of
the roman occupation who founded communities out in the deserts-----a kind of
---"Leave us alone, already" group of--------seclusion seekers
"go away........leave us be.........

 

[AVG-JOE]

By far the largest group of people settling in Israel are young Modern Orthodox couples.
Yep, I just bet they'll push for a more secular, inclusive Israel.
For sure!

If the constitution that 'legalizes' Israel in the eyes of her citizens uses the derivatives of 'all' liberally, eventually their courts will begin to recognize everyone equally.

If it gives any group special treatment under the law, it's causing, and will continue to cause, friction.

 

[RoccoR]

2AVG-JOE, et al,

Just one minor point of clarification.

IMHO the border restrictions alone, and being 100% surrounded by the Israeli military, has all the earmarks of an occupation.

(COMMENT)

The Gaza Strip is NOT 100% surrounded by Israel. It's southern border is shared with Egypt. It has a border crossing at Rafah onto the main road across the northern skirt of the Sinai Peninsula.

​

• Of course, Egypt has its own thoughts.
  • Reopening of Rafah crossing top priority for Hamas in ceasefire talks. Peter Beaumont in Rafah, The Guardian, Thursday 17 July 2014
    Border crossing is a lifeline for Palestinians, but Egypt does not want to gift Hamas something that would increase its popularity.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[flacaltenn]

Obviously, the 'wrong side of history' is defined by any given Monkey's opinion of the membership, and, assembling lists is made all the easier by the dog-eat-dog way Sentience is clawing it's way out of Mother Earth's incredibly rich biosphere.




What next?


Does the future hold an endless blockade of Gaza?


Where do Israeli citizens see themselves in 10 years? In 150 years?

The Palestinians have had the deed to the Gaza for over a decade. At a time when everyone thought there was a hope for UNIFIED Palestinian state, Hamas chose to fight a war with the recognized Palestinian leadership for control of Gaza. It was a brutal conflict with Israel standing down for the duration. Hamas overturned the PA control over Gaza and became the government of the district. There is a blockade -- because Hamas is terrorist organization and not very focus on Human Rights or an Economy for their own people.

We (the US) blockaded Iraq for over 12 years. And not only did we control their military excersizes, we DENIED THEM THE RIGHT TO SELL OIL.. Which meant that they could not afford food and medicine for that rather large country. We KILLED 100s of Thousands of Iraqis with that blockade and daily bombings. And we did that we phony evidence and cause. YOU and I were a part of that.. OUR hands are not clean..

What THIS blockade is aimed at is to deny weapons to terrorists. PERIOD.. Israel is the major supplier of electric power and water to Gaza. Does NOT intercept any supplies that are not of military consequence.

Your expectation that it's all up to Israel to solve this problem is misplaced. The Palestinians were booted from Jordan and then Booted from Lebanon by the UN, and TODAY, Egypt will not even allow Palis to cross into their country for refuge from the war. It is NOT all up to Israel to forge a solution. Abbas and West Bank Pali leadership HATES Hamas. Abbas looks like a saint compared to that regime and COULD be a peace partner.

The citizens of Gaza OWN every inch of Gaza.. It's up to them to pick their leadership. I just posted a poll of Gazans (several in fact) showing that up to 70% of the folks DO NOT SUPPORT the rocket attacks from Hamas. It's up to THEM to speak out. Elections are coming up --- if you want RESOLUTION --- get the UN in there WAY BEFORE election day and assure that Gazans are free to boot Hamas out on their asses. You would see a major change in the situation...

 

[AVG-JOE]

I never said that the list of things on the wrong side of history was a short one.


My point here is this: What's next? The Israelis may have had good reasons for creating Gaza, but the blockade can't go on forever. What's next?

 

[RoccoR]

AVG-JOE, et al,

That is right! Nothing lasts forever.

I never said that the list of things on the wrong side of history was a short one.

My point here is this: What's next? The Israelis may have had good reasons for creating Gaza, but the blockade can't go on forever. What's next?

(COMMENT)

At some point, the Arab-Palestinians will come to a realization that "peace" means progress and prosperity. When that happens, the paradigm will shift.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Disir]

I learned a lot in my http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/365580-jewish-democracy.html#post9454324 thread. Thanks if you participated.


Apparently, the 'boots on the ground' politics in the state of Israel do allow for voting representation for citizens, regardless of ethnicity and/or beliefs.

Kudos! ​

I'm learning that the problems in Israel have less to do with what religions various individuals practice, and more to do with the ongoing restrictions on the people living in the territory known as Gaza.

I've heard the situation there described as a military occupation, though no troops are quartered there permanently. IMHO the border restrictions alone, and being 100% surrounded by the Israeli military, has all the earmarks of an occupation.

In my brutally honest humble opinion, what's gone on in Gaza for my entire lifeTime now has been far worse than an occupation. As the years have dragged on with no political solution to the blockade, it has turned in to one population of Monkeys starving another population of Monkeys of Progress.

The Israelis may have had 'damn good' reasons to put the people who ended up in Gaza into that particular fenced-off sand-box at the time they did it, but all these years later it's become cruel.

I would like to point out something about elections. There has been a boycott since 1967. So, in places like East Jerusalem you can have the tools in there and no action is taken.

More than a third of the people who have the right to vote in Jerusalem municipal elections on Tuesday are Palestinian – but if history is any indication, very few will show up at the ballot box.

Fuad Sliman, the only Palestinian in the race, had hoped that things could look different this year. In recent months, many East Jerusalemites told him they were so fed up with the situation in their neighborhoods and their lack of power in City Hall, they were ready to vote on October 22.

But updates he received in just the past week indicate that various Palestinian factions have sent out word to East Jerusalemites, strongly encouraging them to uphold a decades-old boycott against participating in the elections.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/jerusalem-vivendi/.premium-1.553650