Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

[auditor0007]

The Tea Party movement is supposed to be the engine driving Republicans' push for sharp cuts to spending and reform entitlements. Representative Paul Ryan's 2012 budget, which passed the House last week, phases out Medicare for people under 55 and turns Medicaid into block grants. But it turns out that Tea Partiers, like most Americans, strongly oppose cutting Medicare and Medicaid. A new McClatchy-Marist poll shows 70 percent of "Tea Party supporters" oppose cutting those programs--and 80 percent of registered voters agree.

70% of Tea Partiers Don't Want to Cut Medicare Either - Politics - The Atlantic Wire


So, when it comes to something like Medicare and I'd guess Social Security, those anti-socialist become socialist.
Oh, ,the irony!

Of course not, But they do want to fix it. Anyone with a brain understands the system as it stands is unsustainable. The battle is simply on how to fix it. The GOP favors Privatization, Which whether you agree with it or not, you have to admit it is an idea. The Democrats seem to have no idea. Other than Obama care, which actually rapes Medicare, and like Medicare is almost certain to cost many times as much as we are being told.

So if you say no to vouchers for those under 54, then what is your plan to fix Medicare? It is real easy to sit up here and repeat the false Democrat Talking point that the GOP wants to end Medicare. It is much harder to explain how you would address the problem.

Lets hear it.

The plan is quite simple; raise the fucking retirement age and make people work a few years longer. The programs cannot support retirees for the current 13 years. Make people work longer so payments don't begin until age 70. While many people will not like the idea of having to work longer, at least once they do retire, the benefits will be in tact and paid in full. You are correct that we cannot sustain this kind of spending on those programs. However, turning them over to the private market will only drive costs even higher without any safety net for those who will not be able to afford it. And from the numbers I am seeing, less than half of all retirees will be able to afford the private insurance on their own, even with the government subsidy.

 

[Navy1960]

I honestly believe that cutting Medicare would not result in lower costs to anyone. In fact the Ryan proposal reminds me a lot of the Kerr-Mills Bill that existed prior to Medicare. That aside, Medicare can be overhauled and needs to be to make it more cost effective. As a suggestion, perhaps we might want to consider means testing ALL aspects of Medicare, and as the ability to pay ones own medical insurance rises so to does one's premiums paid to the Federal Govt. if they choose to use it or stay on it. It does seem to me that if a little logic is applied to Medicare then perhaps it would not spiral out of control as much as it has. On a personal level, in my humble opinion we as a nation have an obligation to those Seniors, Vets, disabled, etc...to see to it that they have at the very least some access to good quality healthcare. Those that are able to afford it themselves, I see nothing wrong with asking them to pay some of that cost. However, forcing those into a "private system" shows a general lack of knowledge of the private insurance market, in that they will soon find themselves unsinsured due to the high costs. I honestly believe that Medicare and Social Security need not be changed to the point where they need to be just tossed aside, however if you wish to reform them, then do so, for those that wish not to participate and those that can afford to insure themselves.

 

[auditor0007]

The Tea Party movement is supposed to be the engine driving Republicans' push for sharp cuts to spending and reform entitlements. Representative Paul Ryan's 2012 budget, which passed the House last week, phases out Medicare for people under 55 and turns Medicaid into block grants. But it turns out that Tea Partiers, like most Americans, strongly oppose cutting Medicare and Medicaid. A new McClatchy-Marist poll shows 70 percent of "Tea Party supporters" oppose cutting those programs--and 80 percent of registered voters agree.

70% of Tea Partiers Don't Want to Cut Medicare Either - Politics - The Atlantic Wire


So, when it comes to something like Medicare and I'd guess Social Security, those anti-socialist become socialist.
Oh, ,the irony!

Of course not, But they do want to fix it. Anyone with a brain understands the system as it stands is unsustainable. The battle is simply on how to fix it. The GOP favors Privatization, Which whether you agree with it or not, you have to admit it is an idea. The Democrats seem to have no idea. Other than Obama care, which actually rapes Medicare, and like Medicare is almost certain to cost many times as much as we are being told.

So if you say no to vouchers for those under 54, then what is your plan to fix Medicare? It is real easy to sit up here and repeat the false Democrat Talking point that the GOP wants to end Medicare. It is much harder to explain how you would address the problem.

Lets hear it.

They want to raise taxes...THAT is their *FIX*

Yes, actually that is part of the damn equation. The tax rates are the lowest in 60 years and we are not collecting enough revenue. I can't help that you are so blind that you can't see that, but it is a fact. You only look at spending as being the problem, but it is more than that.

The cost of federal spending is close to 26% of GDP. Over the last 50 years, spending has been, on average, between 18 to 20% of GDP. Now we have known for many years that this was going to go up when the baby boomers began to retire, yet we borrowed the surplus SS funds for the last two plus decades instead of saving it for its actual purpose. So considering that, I don't have a problem with spending increasing a bit over past percentages, but not by the margins we are seeing. 20 to 22 percent of GDP would be reasonable considering how much we have wasted in the past.

To get revenues up so that we can run a balanced budget or close taxes will have to be raised. Here is another fact for those of you who don't understand basic math. In the past, we have collected federal taxes equivalent to around 17 to 18 percent of GDP. Today the federal government is collecting under 15% of GDP in revenue. And you know why? Because we cut the fucking tax rates so damn low that we are no longer collecting as much as we once did. It is in part a revenue problem that has been exasperated by the tax cuts. It's time to end them.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The Tea Party movement is supposed to be the engine driving Republicans' push for sharp cuts to spending and reform entitlements. Representative Paul Ryan's 2012 budget, which passed the House last week, phases out Medicare for people under 55 and turns Medicaid into block grants. But it turns out that Tea Partiers, like most Americans, strongly oppose cutting Medicare and Medicaid. A new McClatchy-Marist poll shows 70 percent of "Tea Party supporters" oppose cutting those programs--and 80 percent of registered voters agree.

70% of Tea Partiers Don't Want to Cut Medicare Either - Politics - The Atlantic Wire


So, when it comes to something like Medicare and I'd guess Social Security, those anti-socialist become socialist.
Oh, ,the irony!

This is not surprising. People scream about government spending and reform until that reform affects them personally. Then they are suddenly all about the government's helping hand.

It is for this reason that it will probably take a complete economic collapse that will dwarf the 1930s in order to get our house in order.

 

[The T]

Of course not, But they do want to fix it. Anyone with a brain understands the system as it stands is unsustainable. The battle is simply on how to fix it. The GOP favors Privatization, Which whether you agree with it or not, you have to admit it is an idea. The Democrats seem to have no idea. Other than Obama care, which actually rapes Medicare, and like Medicare is almost certain to cost many times as much as we are being told.

So if you say no to vouchers for those under 54, then what is your plan to fix Medicare? It is real easy to sit up here and repeat the false Democrat Talking point that the GOP wants to end Medicare. It is much harder to explain how you would address the problem.

Lets hear it.

They want to raise taxes...THAT is their *FIX*

Yes, actually that is part of the damn equation. The tax rates are the lowest in 60 years and we are not collecting enough revenue. I can't help that you are so blind that you can't see that, but it is a fact. You only look at spending as being the problem, but it is more than that.

The cost of federal spending is close to 26% of GDP. Over the last 50 years, spending has been, on average, between 18 to 20% of GDP. Now we have known for many years that this was going to go up when the baby boomers began to retire, yet we borrowed the surplus SS funds for the last two plus decades instead of saving it for its actual purpose. So considering that, I don't have a problem with spending increasing a bit over past percentages, but not by the margins we are seeing. 20 to 22 percent of GDP would be reasonable considering how much we have wasted in the past.

To get revenues up so that we can run a balanced budget or close taxes will have to be raised. Here is another fact for those of you who don't understand basic math. In the past, we have collected federal taxes equivalent to around 17 to 18 percent of GDP. Today the federal government is collecting under 15% of GDP in revenue. And you know why? Because we cut the fucking tax rates so damn low that we are no longer collecting as much as we once did. It is in part a revenue problem that has been exasperated by the tax cuts. It's time to end them.

No...the TAKERS in society outweigh the Producers...and Government spending is too damned much.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The poll is from Marist.

Yea, no dog in the hunt there.

Do you have evidence Marist is biased?

 

[Navy1960]

I have a question as it's applied to this conversation, somewhat when it comes to "spending" . Would you consider a Defense contractor that after 16 years and several billions of dollars later and has yet to deliever a single aircraft to the Navy on a several hundred billion dollar program to be part of the problem because I sure do. The thing that strikes me here, is that this sort of thing is fairly common and yet, while I agree Medicare is in need of reform, to ignore all aspects of this issue doesn't solve much.









i

 

[Harry Dresden]

The plan is quite simple; raise the fucking retirement age and make people work a few years longer. The programs cannot support retirees for the current 13 years. Make people work longer so payments don't begin until age 70. While many people will not like the idea of having to work longer, at least once they do retire, the benefits will be in tact and paid in full. You are correct that we cannot sustain this kind of spending on those programs. However, turning them over to the private market will only drive costs even higher without any safety net for those who will not be able to afford it. And from the numbers I am seeing, less than half of all retirees will be able to afford the private insurance on their own, even with the government subsidy.

so what if someone has a job that is physically tough and wearing on the body and working till 65 would be pretty tough.....going till 70 would seem unrealistic.....what of those people?.....not everyone sits on their ass all day behind a desk or Computer......

 

[Zona]

The Tea Party movement is supposed to be the engine driving Republicans' push for sharp cuts to spending and reform entitlements. Representative Paul Ryan's 2012 budget, which passed the House last week, phases out Medicare for people under 55 and turns Medicaid into block grants. But it turns out that Tea Partiers, like most Americans, strongly oppose cutting Medicare and Medicaid. A new McClatchy-Marist poll shows 70 percent of "Tea Party supporters" oppose cutting those programs--and 80 percent of registered voters agree.

70% of Tea Partiers Don't Want to Cut Medicare Either - Politics - The Atlantic Wire


So, when it comes to something like Medicare and I'd guess Social Security, those anti-socialist become socialist.
Oh, ,the irony!

Do you remember Becks little rally. I bet you 100% of those old people didnt want their medicare cut.

This one is going to bite the republicans in the ass.

 

[Zona]

The Tea Party movement is supposed to be the engine driving Republicans' push for sharp cuts to spending and reform entitlements. Representative Paul Ryan's 2012 budget, which passed the House last week, phases out Medicare for people under 55 and turns Medicaid into block grants. But it turns out that Tea Partiers, like most Americans, strongly oppose cutting Medicare and Medicaid. A new McClatchy-Marist poll shows 70 percent of "Tea Party supporters" oppose cutting those programs--and 80 percent of registered voters agree.

70% of Tea Partiers Don't Want to Cut Medicare Either - Politics - The Atlantic Wire


So, when it comes to something like Medicare and I'd guess Social Security, those anti-socialist become socialist.
Oh, ,the irony!

This is not surprising. People scream about government spending and reform until that reform affects them personally. Then they are suddenly all about the government's helping hand.

It is for this reason that it will probably take a complete economic collapse that will dwarf the 1930s in order to get our house in order.

This is why the republicans in office will not allow anyone to tax the upper 1%. In fact, they want to cut taxes even more FOR them. Its amazing.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Do you remember Becks little rally. I bet you 100% of those old people didnt want their medicare cut.

This one is going to bite the republicans in the ass.

and there lies the problem.....everyone will get old some day and will be retired and will need some kind of Medical they can afford....when your 25 years old you dont think of this unless you think about your grand parents and how it is for them.....i personally think the Elderly should be off limits to Cuts.....they paid into this stuff for years.....they should be able to collect when they need it........but then thats just me....Harry the Humanitarian....

 

[The T]

Do you remember Becks little rally. I bet you 100% of those old people didnt want their medicare cut.

This one is going to bite the republicans in the ass.

and there lies the problem.....everyone will get old some day and will be retired and will need some kind of Medical they can afford....when your 25 years old you dont think of this unless you think about your grand parents and how it is for them.....i personally think the Elderly should be off limits to Cuts.....they paid into this stuff for years.....they should be able to collect when they need it........

*ABSOLUTELY* They paid their dues.

 

[auditor0007]

The plan is quite simple; raise the fucking retirement age and make people work a few years longer. The programs cannot support retirees for the current 13 years. Make people work longer so payments don't begin until age 70. While many people will not like the idea of having to work longer, at least once they do retire, the benefits will be in tact and paid in full. You are correct that we cannot sustain this kind of spending on those programs. However, turning them over to the private market will only drive costs even higher without any safety net for those who will not be able to afford it. And from the numbers I am seeing, less than half of all retirees will be able to afford the private insurance on their own, even with the government subsidy.

so what if someone has a job that is physically tough and wearing on the body and working till 65 would be pretty tough.....going till 70 would seem unrealistic.....what of those people?.....not everyone sits on their ass all day behind a desk or Computer......

We offer disability through SS now. That would not change. For those who are truly not able to work past the age of 65, they would go on disability for those years. I realize that some cannot work past 65 for all types of medical/physical reasons. Those in hard core trades tend to destroy their bodies much more quickly then the rest of us. I would not suggest that we ignore them or force them to do what they cannot.

 

[Zona]

Do you remember Becks little rally. I bet you 100% of those old people didnt want their medicare cut.

This one is going to bite the republicans in the ass.

and there lies the problem.....everyone will get old some day and will be retired and will need some kind of Medical they can afford....when your 25 years old you dont think of this unless you think about your grand parents and how it is for them.....i personally think the Elderly should be off limits to Cuts.....they paid into this stuff for years.....they should be able to collect when they need it........but then thats just me....Harry the Humanitarian....

Agreed. 100%

Imagine them with a voucher for 15k yearly. Do you know how fast that would go. What the hell are they supposed to do when that 15k is spent? They are supposed to go shopping for insurance on the free market at that age? Really?

What they hell are they thinking? I ihonesly think this will bite them in the ass.

 

[auditor0007]

Do you remember Becks little rally. I bet you 100% of those old people didnt want their medicare cut.

This one is going to bite the republicans in the ass.

and there lies the problem.....everyone will get old some day and will be retired and will need some kind of Medical they can afford....when your 25 years old you dont think of this unless you think about your grand parents and how it is for them.....i personally think the Elderly should be off limits to Cuts.....they paid into this stuff for years.....they should be able to collect when they need it........but then thats just me....Harry the Humanitarian....

The real problem is that we are not going to have a choice but to cover these people, who in fact will be us at some point. I don't care how much the conservatives think that we can just make them pay their own way; if they don't have the money, they will not be able to and someone else will have to. Either that, or we just tell them to go home and die. I really don't see that happening. While a few people here would be fine with that, the vast majority of Americans would not.

So the question is how do we pay for it all, and how much do we make the individual responsible for even when they may have limited financial ability to pay much on their own. To me the answer is simple; make them work longer. Remember, when Medicare was first set up, people began collecting benefits at the age of 65. Then they died, on average, two years later instead of thirteen years later like today.

 

[Zona]

Do you remember Becks little rally. I bet you 100% of those old people didnt want their medicare cut.

This one is going to bite the republicans in the ass.

and there lies the problem.....everyone will get old some day and will be retired and will need some kind of Medical they can afford....when your 25 years old you dont think of this unless you think about your grand parents and how it is for them.....i personally think the Elderly should be off limits to Cuts.....they paid into this stuff for years.....they should be able to collect when they need it........

*ABSOLUTELY* They paid their dues.

Literally.

And what about the disabled who are on medicare? Do they get vouchers as well?

 

[Navy1960]

Do you remember Becks little rally. I bet you 100% of those old people didnt want their medicare cut.

This one is going to bite the republicans in the ass.

and there lies the problem.....everyone will get old some day and will be retired and will need some kind of Medical they can afford....when your 25 years old you dont think of this unless you think about your grand parents and how it is for them.....i personally think the Elderly should be off limits to Cuts.....they paid into this stuff for years.....they should be able to collect when they need it........

*ABSOLUTELY* They paid their dues.

Could not agree more, it's why I suggested that perhaps if someone wanted to reform Medicare going forward, perhaps start with the those comming into it not with those that are already in it. Imagine for a moment T if your 54 and 11 months and this bill passes and you have paid into it for over 30 years, and your one month away. At some point you have to ask yourself, well that was an exercise in futility. I do think Medicare should be means tested, and why not make it so that young people entering into the program can opt out if they wish. Just as a suggestion. I would imagine these things along with looking at healthcare costs in general would go a long way in cutting that debt down to size.

 

[Toro]

Why do we assume the elderly paid their dues? They may have paid some of their dues, but certainly not all, given that medicare is grossly underfunded.

Tea Party supporters, many of which are elderly, are banging on state pension plans because they are underfunded. Yet their medicare plan is also underfunded, more so than most state pension plans. And when you tell them they should get less or pay more, they get bent out of shape.

It's another example of applying double standards to others but not ourselves. We expect others to pay full share for their own benefits but we don't expect to pay for our own full share. We expect others to pay for us.

Until people start saying "Cut my benefits" not "Cut everyone else's benefits except my own," or "tax me so I can pay for my benefits" instead of "tax someone else," this country isn't serious about solving its fiscal problems.

 

[auditor0007]

and there lies the problem.....everyone will get old some day and will be retired and will need some kind of Medical they can afford....when your 25 years old you dont think of this unless you think about your grand parents and how it is for them.....i personally think the Elderly should be off limits to Cuts.....they paid into this stuff for years.....they should be able to collect when they need it........

*ABSOLUTELY* They paid their dues.

Could not agree more, it's why I suggested that perhaps if someone wanted to reform Medicare going forward, perhaps start with the those comming into it not with those that are already in it. Imagine for a moment T if your 54 and 11 months and this bill passes and you have paid into it for over 30 years, and your one month away. At some point you have to ask yourself, well that was an exercise in futility. I do think Medicare should be means tested, and why not make it so that young people entering into the program can opt out if they wish. Just as a suggestion. I would imagine these things along with looking at healthcare costs in general would go a long way in cutting that debt down to size.

Okay, you want to give people the option to opt out of Medicare. Now think about this; how many do you think will opt out? Quite a few most likely. But guess what will happen? When they retire they won't be able to afford their medical care and then what? Do we tell them that since they opted out, they will just have to forgo treatment when they become sick? We all know that won't happen, and that is why you cannot give people a choice of opting out.

 

[Harry Dresden]

We offer disability through SS now. That would not change. For those who are truly not able to work past the age of 65, they would go on disability for those years. I realize that some cannot work past 65 for all types of medical/physical reasons. Those in hard core trades tend to destroy their bodies much more quickly then the rest of us. I would not suggest that we ignore them or force them to do what they cannot.

i can see certain people bitching about that Auditor......they will be saying "but they are not disabled,why should my tax dollars pay for them if they are not disabled,they cant retire yet?....go find a easier job till you can".....just sayin....