[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[KissMy]

Your say so isn't good enough. Provide some data.

Through income tax alone the middle class pays the highest effective tax rate. When you add in payroll taxes the middle class gets completely screwed. Income tax facts from the IRS: From 2001 to 2007 the people with the highest income got the biggest percentage cuts in their actual tax payments. The middle class had to subsidize the rich even more than before. In 2007 once you start making $2 million a year your effective tax rates go down & you are being subsidized. Workers making $200K were paying higher effective income tax rates than billionaires. That is before adding in payroll taxes that make the rates even worse.

No matter. The top 10% of all earners pay 40% of the federal tax burden. The top 25% pay well over 70% of the federal tax burden.
The problem is not revenue. The problem is SPENDING...There is too much of it.
The fact that a measly $85 bln of a total continuing resolution( remember, there is no federal budget right now) of over $3 trillion caused such a ruckus. There is just far too much dependency on government.
The other fact ignored is there were NO CUTS in the sequester. Only reductions in increases. Which the libs call a "cut"...
No, you guys get plenty. Your side needs to figure out good stewardship of the people's money before you can ask for more.

I warned you in this post "If you post something stupid like the rich pay the majority of this countries tax then you are clearly to retarded to understand tax subsidies & how they unleveled the playing field."

You have clearly demonstrated you are to retarded to understand subsidies or tax codes! You are clueless as to how the tax code made all the capital, investment & wealth flow to the rich because their lower effective tax rate & exemption from payroll tax generated greater return on investment than others could. You don't have the mental capacity to understand.

I never asked for more revenue, only less from the upper middle class in order to stop the $2 million & above income from paying lower rates than us who are subsidizing them.

 

[jgarden]

Acts 4:31-35 The Believers Share Their Possessions

31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.

33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all

34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

- they were all filled with the Holy Spirit

- all the believers were one in heart and mind.

- no one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but

- they shared everything they had.

- there were no needy persons among them

- it (money) was distributed to anyone who had need


Only in America, could a method of "sharing" devised while under the influence of the Holy Spirit be considered "subversive!"

 

[editec]

Liberals, what should be the "fair share" the rich have to pay in taxes?

Like there's some magic number that fits for every occasion and circumstance?

You don't suppose the taxes might need to higher say in Dec 8th 1941 than they might have been on some other date?

Are you sock-puppet cons really as stupid as you play here in the net?

Frankly, I cannot believe anyone who posts here is that stupid

 

[NYcarbineer]

I keep hearing liberals say day after day, "the rich need to pay their fair share!"

But when asked how much the "fair share" actually is, they have no idea and never come out with a specific number. Others just beat around the bush and talk about periods in our history when top marginal tax rates were in the 90% range (even though nobody ever paid that rate), but say that's not really what they want. Maybe out of fear they'll get called communists.

Anyways, I thought I'd put an end to the confusion once and for all with this poll.

Liberals, what should be the "fair share" the rich have to pay in taxes?

Conservatives, feel free to chime in as well.

Progressive taxation of income is fair because it taxes money most likely to be used for necessities less than it taxes money most likely to be used for luxuries.

Put another way, if you think that having a sales tax that taxes bread at the same rate as liquor, then you like the idea of a flat tax.

If you think that poorer Americans are undertaxed and richer Americans are overtaxed, then you like the idea of a flat tax.

The single most important change in going from a progressive tax to a flat tax, all else being equal, is that lower income Americans would pay a bigger share of the overall tax burden and upper income Americans would pay a smaller share.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Back in the 1950s, when the top marginal tax rate was more than 90 percent, real annual growth averaged more than 4 percent. During the last eight years, when the top marginal rate was just 35 percent, real growth was less than half that. Altogether, in years when the top marginal rate was lower than 39.6 percent — the top rate during the 1990s — annual real growth averaged 2.1 percent. In years when the rate was 39.6 percent or higher, real growth averaged 3.8 percent. The pattern is the same regardless of threshold. Take 50 percent, for example. Growth in years when the tax rate was less than 50 percent averaged 2.7 percent. In years with tax rates at or more than 50 percent, growth was 3.7 percent.


CHART: Since 1950, Lower Top Tax Rates Have Coincided With Weaker Economic Growth | ThinkProgress

Take a good look at what you could write off in the 50s.

I hear this all the time from lieberals. It's bullshit.

Sure the rates were high, but no one paid them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most of your life has been one long tax cut:

The effective federal income tax rate for all Americans (average) has fallen from 11% in 1979 to about 7.2% (2009).

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

 

[velvtacheeze]

For the rich and corporations, more.

 

[rightwinger]

Let's start with pre-Reagan tax rates and see how it goes

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Acts 4:31-35 The Believers Share Their Possessions

31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.

33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all

34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

- they were all filled with the Holy Spirit

- all the believers were one in heart and mind.

- no one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but

- they shared everything they had.

- there were no needy persons among them

- it (money) was distributed to anyone who had need


Only in America, could a method of "sharing" devised while under the influence of the Holy Spirit be considered "subversive!"

When America comes under the influence of the Holy Spirit, we'll see what happens, no?


Matthew 4: 5-7


5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

 

[midcan5]

Lots of information below - but why do conservatives and republicans ask this question over and over again as it they were lackeys for the rich? When did America become a place where every swinging dick cries for the rich and their tax burden? What a wacky twisted world we live in when the working poor and the jobless are looked down on and the rich worshiped. Christianity in reverse. Why do you wingnuts worry so much about the rich? I can tell you straight out they don't give a flying fuck for you. Brainwashed puppets all.

"On moral grounds, then, we could argue for a flat income tax of 90 percent to return that wealth to its real owners. In the United States, even a flat tax of 70 percent would support all governmental programs (about half the total tax) and allow payment, with the remainder, of a patrimony of about $8,000 per annum per inhabitant, or $25,000 for a family of three. This would generously leave with the original recipients of the income about three times what, according to my rough guess, they had earned."UBI and the Flat Tax


Reagan raised taxes many times, should we take his example?
http://www.usmessageboard.com/education/126617-reagan-and-taxes.html

"The economic growth that actually followed — indeed, the whole history of the last 20 years — offers one of the most serious challenges to modern conservatism. Bill Clinton and the elder George Bush both raised taxes in the early 1990s, and conservatives predicted disaster. Instead, the economy boomed, and incomes grew at their fastest pace since the 1960s. Then came the younger Mr. Bush, the tax cuts, the disappointing expansion and the worst downturn since the Depression." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/opinion/sunday/do-tax-cuts-lead-to-economic-growth.html


"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well." Tax cuts spur economic growth
The Idolatry of Ideology-Why Tax Cuts Hurt the Economy by Russ Beaton
Spending Cuts Vs. Tax Increases at the State Level, 10/30/01
The rich get rich because of their merit.

And please don't tell us the rich create jobs, they don't. http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...-america-s-best-president-16.html#post7311573


Matthew 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'"


_

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Most of your life has been one long tax cut:

The effective federal income tax rate for all Americans (average) has fallen from 11% in 1979 to about 7.2% (2009).

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Yes, because a lot of people pay no federal income tax at all.

My, what a misleading statistic.

 

[Old Rocks]

I keep hearing liberals say day after day, "the rich need to pay their fair share!"

But when asked how much the "fair share" actually is, they have no idea and never come out with a specific number. Others just beat around the bush and talk about periods in our history when top marginal tax rates were in the 90% range, but say that's not really what they want. Maybe out of fear they'll get called communists.

Anyways, I thought I'd put an end to the confusion once and for al with this poll.

Liberals, what should be the "fair share" the rich have to pay in taxes?

Conservatives, feel free to chime in as well.

You either misunderstand the issue or are misrepresenting it.

The issue has nothing to do with a ‘fair share ‘ or some ‘specific number.’

The issue concerns the fallacy of ‘trickle-down economics,’ where taxes are lowered for high-income earners, yet tax rates remain the same for middle and low-income earners.

What country are you speaking of?

Tax rates here in the US go up as your income goes up. Not down.

And you are totally full of shit. That is why Romney paid 13% on his income? Because his tax rate is less than mine? The very wealthy pay 1/2 to 1/3 of the percentage rate the rest of us do. Simple fact. They should pay a real higher percentage rate, as the system is working very good for them, they should pay back into the system.

The result of the present tax rates are that the very wealthy continue to recieve an ever higher percentage of the wealth of the nation, while the middle class slowly slides into the class of the working poor.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MMfdpn6FUM]Shocking Video!! how wealth is distributed in the US!! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

QUESTION:

I tried to give tooAlive a positive rep. I did everything I was supposed to do but it came up as a neg. The same thing happened to me a few months back with PoliiticalChic.

Can someone explain to me what in the hell is going on???

MODS: There is something wrong with the system. Please fix it.

A larger power appears to be at work. One who understands.

 

[LoneLaugher]

This thread is THE ONE, ladies and gentlemen. After going over this so many times for all these years with these same people, this is finally it! The conservatives clammoring for a flat tax and whining about how progressive taxes are bad will finally read and comprehend the information that we are giving them!

The facts will penetrate the wall of stupid and we will hear a great sound of hot air being released from the nutter bubble! This one is THE ONE!

I am sure of it!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most of your life has been one long tax cut:

The effective federal income tax rate for all Americans (average) has fallen from 11% in 1979 to about 7.2% (2009).

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Yes, because a lot of people pay no federal income tax at all.

My, what a misleading statistic.

Why is it misleading? The effective tax rate for the richest Americans has fallen along with everyone else's.

 

[Gadawg73]

Most of your life has been one long tax cut:

The effective federal income tax rate for all Americans (average) has fallen from 11% in 1979 to about 7.2% (2009).

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Average is NOT all Americans.
Producers are indexed as the tax code IS INDEXED.
When one was taxed on $12,000 a year in 1973 to compensate for inflation that income is not $36,000 a year.
And they pay more taxes NOW on the 36K which bought the same amount of things NOW as it did in 1973 for 12K which was taxed FAR LESS than the 36K NOW.

 

[Gadawg73]

This thread is THE ONE, ladies and gentlemen. After going over this so many times for all these years with these same people, this is finally it! The conservatives clammoring for a flat tax and whining about how progressive taxes are bad will finally read and comprehend the information that we are giving them!

The facts will penetrate the wall of stupid and we will hear a great sound of hot air being released from the nutter bubble! This one is THE ONE!

I am sure of it!

Income tax invites special interest lobbying and breaks given to special interest groups.
Income tax invites underground economy and massive compliance.
56,000 pages of tax code which many times the best CPAs in the country can not figure out.
Income tax compliance is very expensive and time consuming for the citizen.

Either one supports special interest groups receiving tax breaks through campaign lobbying as is the norm now or they don't.
The current politicians we have now and the reason they DO NOTHING is they do not have to answer to the citizens.
They answer to those that donate to their campaigns so they get tax breaks in the 56,000 page tax code.
Why anyone with a brain has trouble accepting this is hard to understand.

 

[zeke]

Most of your life has been one long tax cut:

The effective federal income tax rate for all Americans (average) has fallen from 11% in 1979 to about 7.2% (2009).

Historical Average Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Average is NOT all Americans.
Producers are indexed as the tax code IS INDEXED.
When one was taxed on $12,000 a year in 1973 to compensate for inflation that income is not $36,000 a year.
And they pay more taxes NOW on the 36K which bought the same amount of things NOW as it did in 1973 for 12K which was taxed FAR LESS than the 36K NOW.

There should be a point you are trying to make. What is it? That incomes have risen since 1973? Yes they have. And that items are more expensive today than in 1973? Yes they are.
And seeing as how income taxes are applied as a percentage of income, then yes, I pay more dollars in taxes today than I did in 1973.

What was your point? Do you have a "way back machine"?

 

[Gadawg73]

If people are really interested in everyone paying their fair share they would end the income tax.

You could tax the rich 90% and what do most of them do with ALL of their investments?

TAX FREE MUNICIPAL BONDS AND OTHER TAX FREE INVESTMENTS.

When will you good folks wake the hell up and see that the tax code is there to protect SPECIAL INTERESTS.

Democrats DO NOTHING to change the tax code and why? IT KEEPS GETTING THEM RE-ELECTED, SAME AS REPUBLICANS.

WELL DUH

But I believe none of you whiners crying for higher and higher and higher taxes don't want any changes in the tax code and really could care less if "the rich" get taxed more.

All you want is someone to blame and "the rich", "Republicans", "rich Republicans", "conservatives" and "rich conservative Republicans" is what is parroted in unison.

Some of us seek solutions to the nation's problems and others just sit around, blame others and offer more government as the only solution.

HELLO, MORE GOVERNMENT IS NOT WORKING!

 

[zeke]

This thread is THE ONE, ladies and gentlemen. After going over this so many times for all these years with these same people, this is finally it! The conservatives clammoring for a flat tax and whining about how progressive taxes are bad will finally read and comprehend the information that we are giving them!

The facts will penetrate the wall of stupid and we will hear a great sound of hot air being released from the nutter bubble! This one is THE ONE!

I am sure of it!

Income tax invites special interest lobbying and breaks given to special interest groups.
Income tax invites underground economy and massive compliance.
56,000 pages of tax code which many times the best CPAs in the country can not figure out.
Income tax compliance is very expensive and time consuming for the citizen.

Either one supports special interest groups receiving tax breaks through campaign lobbying as is the norm now or they don't.
The current politicians we have now and the reason they DO NOTHING is they do not have to answer to the citizens.
They answer to those that donate to their campaigns so they get tax breaks in the 56,000 page tax code.
Why anyone with a brain has trouble accepting this is hard to understand.

Ah, this post makes more sense. But let me ask you this; IF I were a very VERY wealthy person and I had spent serious money on lobbyists to get the favorable tax treatment that I wanted, why in the fuk would I support changing the tax system to one in which my money would not buy influence and where I would pay MORE in taxes?