Poland STOPS Supplying Ukraine with Weapons to Fight Russia

[Zincwarrior]

Rand Paul is trying to lead the charge on stopping more money to the Ukraine.
I couldn't care less about your thoughts.

Ok Russobot, but you should research his voting history and success with...well anything.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

There is nothing on any negotiating table for the Ukraine, as the situation stands at this point in time.

And in fact, America's Rand Paul has just offered Russia another position of strength with which to bargain.

Russian wants the war over with. China is leaning on them about this. It is costing Russia both money, military personnel, and standing. This war has confirmed that Russia is no longer a superpower country. Continuing the war only reinforces this.

Russian wants to crush Ukraine. If they only wanted the land bridge, then they would have concentrated their forces in the south. In fact, the well-trained, career military people were assigned to the south, indicating that the land bridge is the most important part of this. Everybody has known since they previously sent forces to Crimea and then annexed the same that a land bridge was a necessity.

Therefore, Russia has the motivation to end the war, and they will receive a huge benefit to withdrawing if they get the land bridge as their territory. But it is anything but a total victory for Russia.

Ukraine will have to come to the table. If we stop altogether giving them support, then they will lose. Russia will take the entire country. Russia will conduct all sorts of war crimes against the Ukrainians. It will probably be blood bath. It may take another year for this to happen. But without our support, it will happen. We have leverage to force them to make concessions.

Finally, and a previously mentioned, we would want to give Ukraine full NATO membership. Russia could reject this, demanding that Ukraine declare neutrality. If Russia wants to reject NATO membership for Ukraine, then they can keep right on fighting the war against Ukraine, and we will continue arming Ukraine indefinitely, costing Russia tons of money it does not have, military personnel, world standing, and potentially harming its relationship with allies and trading partners.

 

[Vrenn]

How does your comment in reply to my post have anything to do with what I said? Stick to the point, dude.

You just answered with a Q#$%ffSSSDF.

 

[Donald H]

Ok Russobot, but you should research his voting history and success with...well anything.

Your estimate on him succeeding is likely more likely than mine.

I only considered it being worthy because it's calling Biden's hand.

Remind me if it fails, or I'll remind you if it doesn't.

 

[WinterBorn]

This is a lie. Polish forces now dominate Ukraine. The tactics of the Polish hussars, the tactics of deep operations, are used there. The Minister of Defense is a pro-Polish politician from the Western Ukrainian "Voice" party.
Putin surrendered to the Poles on the Polish-Belarusian border and is withdrawing troops.

Tactics of the Polish Hussars? Riding horses, wearing armor, armed with a spear and maybe a bow? And the big wings they wore to scare people would have little effect on a modern battlefield. I kinda doubt that is what Poland is doing.

 

[Donald H]

Russian wants the war over with. China is leaning on them about this.

I would agree that China wants the war to end! I would just add that I don't believe that America does.

It is costing Russia both money, military personnel,

Russia wants the war to end.

and standing. This war has confirmed that Russia is no longer a superpower country. Continuing the war only reinforces this.

Requires some evidence to back up any of those claims.

Russian wants to crush Ukraine. If they only wanted the land bridge, then they would have concentrated their forces in the south.

Russia wants moe than just a land bridge. Russia mainly wants a guarantee that the Ukraine becomes neutral. That's the issue in my opinion that can perhaps be a key to a settlement.
(America's wants and needs aside for now)

In fact, the well-trained, career military people were assigned to the south, indicating that the land bridge is the most important part of this.

If it helps, I'll grant you that as being the most important to Russia.

Everybody has known since they previously sent forces to Crimea and then annexed the same that a land bridge was a necessity.

In addition to that which I've granted you, can you agree that the Crimea is absolutely essential to Russia?

Therefore, Russia has the motivation to end the war, and they will receive a huge benefit to withdrawing if they get the land bridge as their territory. But it is anything but a total victory for Russia.

If you are setting aside Russia's claim to other territory they've gained then you're making a good point IMO. Does that also go to saying that the Crimea is forever Russia?

Ukraine will have to come to the table. If we stop altogether giving them support, then they will lose. Russia will take the entire country.

I can't agree that Russia will take the whole Ukraine, and neither does Russia want it.

Russia will conduct all sorts of war crimes against the Ukrainians. It will probably be blood bath. It may take another year for this to happen. But without our support, it will happen. We have leverage to force them to make concessions.

The leverage you're mentioning again is still not explained. Frankly, I believe that America is applying any and all leverage that is possible, without escalations that are prohibitive.

Finally, and a previously mentioned, we would want to give Ukraine full NATO membership. Russia could reject this, demanding that Ukraine declare neutrality. If Russia wants to reject NATO membership for Ukraine, then they can keep right on fighting the war against Ukraine, and we will continue arming Ukraine indefinitely, costing Russia tons of money it does not have, military personnel, world standing, and potentially harming its relationship with allies and trading partners.

But that does nothing for the Ukraine or America or for Nato.
All the prohibitions against war between America and Russia remain in place.

The point you can make successfully IMO, is that Nato can claim that the Ukraine has become a Nato member. We're still far from agreeing that America can pressure Russia into submission. It's not productive for me to argue the point but it's not counter-productive to ask you for evidence to affirm your position.
I wouldn't suggest that America is beat.

I've granted you quite a bit to work with. I can't remain honest and give you everything. You're going to have to stop treading water and come up with something we can talk about.

 

[Donald H]

Peace is likely not possible if it is dependent on America's necessary demands and needs for it's proxy war.

Peace for the Ukrainian people will be easily obtainable after the elimination of the US puppet Zelinsky.

That's just the way it stands at this point in time.

 

[Yarddog]

Russia put a whole lot of their excess troops right on the border to threaten Poland. Poland line their own border with their troops and are taking steps so that Poland doesn't become another Ukraine.

Putin is the Devil, Lucifer, Satan all wrapped up into one package. And we MUST stand against him. If America can do that without putting our young men and women in jeopardy, we need to do just that.

If Ukraine was our ally, we should have armed them before the war, to prevent the war from happening in the first place.

Putin was given a clear message though the Biden was indecisive… which probably was used to calculate Russia s win probability. Had we helped them to arm to the teeth before the war, we would have spent much less…. And all those lives would not have been lost

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Poland STOPS supplying Ukraine with weapons to fight Russia
Poland STOPS supplying Ukraine with weapons to fight Russia

Poland has taken a “Poland First” position it seems. This is an action by Poland for Poland’s national security interests. Why cannot the USA do the same? Here, if you want to stop supporting Zelensky, you are deemed pro-Putin. Well now, Poland certainly is not pro-Putin. Poland loathes the Russians and has much history upon which to base their disdain.

Likewise, America has complex interests. It is not in our national interest to prolong a war in Eastern Europe by continuing to give the clear underdog the means to keep fighting. Ukraine is not going to force Russia out of Ukraine militarily. The longer the conflict festers, the greater chance there is for this war to spill over to other countries.

When we give a country weapons due to said recipient facing the possibility of an attack, that act is usually a diplomatic move and not a strategic military move. Diplomatically, it signals our support for that country in the conflict. We usually do not supply them with the amount of weapons we have supplied to Ukraine. It has happened a handful of times through history, but it is most certainly not the rule.

Our giving Ukraine weapons started out as a diplomatic act. Then, with absolutely no domestic consensus, it escalated to us arming Ukraine for a strategic military purpose (proxy war). There has been no debate in Congress over this; there has been no national discussion. Instead, the left is doing it and seeks to shut down anyone daring to question what they are doing. Is THIS the “democracy” Democrats fear losing?

We have our own security issues to concern ourselves with. Supporting an ongoing war against Russia is contra our interests. Sure, what they are doing to Ukraine is horrific. But that does not have to be our concern. Russia will go no farther than Ukraine because if they do they will be attacking NATO countries. Russia would be the aggressor in a clear attack on NATO. They are not going to do something so stupid.

We need to broker a peace. We have great leverage to do this because America is the one that is prolonging the war. We need to try and force the sides to accept a deal of some sort. I have ideas on this but will not get into them here.

Well done for not explaining any of the issues behind this decision,. A russian bot masterclass.

 

[Donald H]

If Ukraine was our ally, we should have armed them before the war, to prevent the war from happening in the first place.

Putin was given a clear message though the Biden was indecisive… which probably was used to calculate Russia s win probability. Had we helped them to arm to the teeth before the war, we would have spent much less…. And all those lives would not have been lost

America 'did' arm the Ukraine to the teeth!

But America underestimated Russia's strength.

Wake the fk up yarddog!

 

[1srelluc]

What’s a uke-bro?

A sub-species of right-wing neocon that supports sending US tax dollars to the corrupt Ukrainian .gov on the premise that "if it helps to kill just one Russian it's worth it".......Nikki Haley is their prom queen.

A dem Uke-bro is just a common money launderer.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Tactics of the Polish Hussars? Riding horses, wearing armor, armed with a spear and maybe a bow? And the big wings they wore to scare people would have little effect on a modern battlefield. I kinda doubt that is what Poland is doing.

Hey don't diss the winged Hussars!

 

[1srelluc]

The article is quoting the Polish PM. If you think the PM did not say this, then attack it on that front rather than simply sliming the source. That tactic is so ... Democrat.

Thanks for playing Mr. Long-Winded but I'll attack what aspect I damn well please. The OP's source has been proven to be bogus so how do I know what the Polish PM supposedly said was the truth or not?

You would be far better off disregarding any info coming out of the whole theater of operations as it's all filled with half truths.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

Thanks for playing Mr. Long-Winded but I'll attack what aspect I damn well please. The OP's source has been proven to be bogus so how do I know what the Polish PM supposedly said was the truth or not?

You would be far better off disregarding any info coming out of the whole theater of operations as it's all filled with half truths.

It must be your time of the month.

 

[1srelluc]

It must be your time of the month.

Negative, I just don't suffer fools very well.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

Peace is likely not possible if it is dependent on America's necessary demands and needs for it's proxy war.

Peace for the Ukrainian people will be easily obtainable after the elimination of the US puppet Zelinsky.

That's just the way it stands at this point in time.

Fuck, you are stupid. Why do so many people here exist only in LaLa land?

 

[Flash]

A sub-species of right-wing neocon that supports sending US tax dollars to the corrupt Ukrainian .gov on the premise that "if it helps to kill just one Russian it's worth it".......Nikki Haley is their prom queen.

A dem Uke-bro is just a common money launderer.

You and I agree on most things but I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Chuck it up to me being a Boomer that grew up understanding that the Russians are assholes. My buddies getting killed in Vietnam with Russian made weapons didn't help.

As far as the cost of giving them aid. We give money to everyone and their Little Brown Dog. The ship of fiscal responsibility sailed a long time ago and will never come back. The money we give to the Ukraine is hardly in the roundup. If we didn't give anything to Ukraine then we are still looking at a $1.5 trillion deficit this year.

I know that the Ukraine is just as corrupt as Russia and if that was the criteria then piss on them both.

However, the bottom of the line is that the Russian assholes invaded Ukraine and killed children and civilians and destroyed the infrastructure of the country and that ain't cool.

Also, maybe being a Southerner with a family history of having our homeland invaded by scum hell bent on destroying makes me have sympathy for the Ukrainians.

I hope the Ukrainians prevail in this and that NATO stands strong to oppose the Russian dickheads.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

Negative, I just don't suffer fools very well.

The article is stating a fact. You choose to ignore something that is quite easy to prove because you have misgivings about the source. That is pretty fucked up, and very Democrat. What happened to you? You seem to have turned into a total cvnt.

 

[luiza]

Thanks for playing Mr. Long-Winded but I'll attack what aspect I damn well please. The OP's source has been proven to be bogus so how do I know what the Polish PM supposedly said was the truth or not?

You would be far better off disregarding any info coming out of the whole theater of operations as it's all filled with half truths.

Matters very little . The Kyiv Nazis are a broken force and have been devastated . They desperately need to surrender before the huge Russian winter offensive begins —— now only a very few weeks away .

 

[1srelluc]

The article is stating a fact. You choose to ignore something that is quite easy to prove because you have misgivings about the source. That is pretty fucked up, and very Democrat. What happened to you? You seem to have turned into a total cvnt.

I never was a money laundering/neocon Uke-bro bitch.....And your long-winded stories suck.