Russia is Not An Aggressor, and Ukraine is Not a Victim

[Lord Long Rod]

Russia is not an Aggressor, and Ukraine is not a Victim

It is widely accepted that the Ukrainian crisis erupted into a military conflict on February 24, 2022, with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the seeds of the hostilities were planted about thirty years earlier by Pres...

www.americanthinker.com

American policy toward Russia has been devoid of historical perspective and definitive strategy since Obama was elected. Russia was clearly acting in its national interest by opposing NATO expansion eastward. We knew this. We just did not care. We chose to keep expanding NATO and just said “F-you, Russia”. This forced their hand.

When they did act, they took Crimea with virtually no consequence. Thank you, Obama, you ignorant schmuck. This was when we could have changed the trajectory. But nothing was done due to ignorance and the outright rejection of Cold War strategic norms among the new foreign affairs establishment.

 

[mamooth]

Russia was clearly acting in its national interest by opposing NATO expansion eastward.

Russia's national interest is in CONQUERING OTHER NATIONS, so it's a good and moral thing to oppose Russia's national interest.

 

[Donald H]

Russia is not an Aggressor, and Ukraine is not a Victim

It is widely accepted that the Ukrainian crisis erupted into a military conflict on February 24, 2022, with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the seeds of the hostilities were planted about thirty years earlier by Pres...

www.americanthinker.com

American policy toward Russia has been devoid of historical perspective and definitive strategy since Obama was elected. Russia was clearly acting in its national interest by opposing NATO expansion eastward. We knew this. We just did not care. We chose to keep expanding NATO and just said “F-you, Russia”. This forced their hand.

Well done Rod! You're more than just a gentleman with an insufficient size issue!

When they did act, they took Crimea with virtually no consequence. Thank you, Obama, you ignorant schmuck. This was when we could have changed the trajectory. But nothing was done due to ignorance and the outright rejection of Cold War strategic norms among the new foreign affairs establishment.

Russia had no choice but to take the Crimea, once America attempted to interfere in the satisfactory status quo agreed upon by the Ukraine and Russia.

 

[BackAgain]

Except Russia was the aggressor. And Ukraine was and remains the victim.

 

[alang1216]

When they did act, they took Crimea with virtually no consequence.

We placed sanctions on them after Crimea. What do you think we should have done?

 

[Lord Long Rod]

Russia's national interest is in CONQUERING OTHER NATIONS, so it's a good and moral thing to oppose Russia's national interest.

^ ignorance

 

[mamooth]

^ ignorance

So, what nations have invaded Russia lately? Please list them for us.

After that, we can list the nations Russia has invaded. It will be a long list.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

We placed sanctions on them after Crimea. What do you think we should have done?

The sanctions had little to no effect.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

So, what nations have invaded Russia lately? Please list them for us.

After that, we can list the nations Russia has invaded. It will be a long list.

^ off-topic deflection

 

[Lord Long Rod]

Except Russia was the aggressor. And Ukraine was and remains the victim.

I don’t condone what Russia did. But from their perspective the expansion of NATO eastward was aggression aimed directly at them.

 

[alang1216]

The sanctions had little to no effect.

I agree but you didn't answer the question, what would you have done after Russia took Crimea? It is easy to criticize others, not so easy to offer alternatives.

 

[skews13]

Russia is not an Aggressor, and Ukraine is not a Victim

It is widely accepted that the Ukrainian crisis erupted into a military conflict on February 24, 2022, with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the seeds of the hostilities were planted about thirty years earlier by Pres...

www.americanthinker.com

American policy toward Russia has been devoid of historical perspective and definitive strategy since Obama was elected. Russia was clearly acting in its national interest by opposing NATO expansion eastward. We knew this. We just did not care. We chose to keep expanding NATO and just said “F-you, Russia”. This forced their hand.

When they did act, they took Crimea with virtually no consequence. Thank you, Obama, you ignorant schmuck. This was when we could have changed the trajectory. But nothing was done due to ignorance and the outright rejection of Cold War strategic norms among the new foreign affairs establishment.

Obama didn't have anything to do with it. House and Senate Republicans did. They obstructed every move Obama wanted to make, and this is the result of that obstruction.

This isn't a war. Russia is murdering civilians.

Biden does have resonsibility though. He should have sent long range missile systems, heavy artillery, and F-16's at the very beginning. His timidity is as much to blame as Republicans for the protracted length of this crimes against humanity.

Biden isn't a war time President, and Republicans will sell out anybody, including their own country to our enemies.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

I agree but you didn't answer the question, what would you have done after Russia took Crimea? It is easy to criticize others, not so easy to offer alternatives.

I honestly do not know what all the options Obama had were at the time. But building up Ukraine’s military immediately (instead of waiting 10 years and, thereby de facto ratifying Russia’s actions) was certainly one of them. Sanctions will real teeth was another. Putting a multilateral fleet in the Black Sea; liberating Crimea; building our energy production to supply Europe with their energy needs rather than waiting on the foreseeable (I.e., Russia selling oil and natural gas to Europe). Plus, I’m sure Russia relies on certain imports for certain parts of their economy. We could denied Russia of much of what they needed if we were more highly motivated.

 

[Care4all]

Russia is not an Aggressor, and Ukraine is not a Victim

It is widely accepted that the Ukrainian crisis erupted into a military conflict on February 24, 2022, with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the seeds of the hostilities were planted about thirty years earlier by Pres...

www.americanthinker.com

American policy toward Russia has been devoid of historical perspective and definitive strategy since Obama was elected. Russia was clearly acting in its national interest by opposing NATO expansion eastward. We knew this. We just did not care. We chose to keep expanding NATO and just said “F-you, Russia”. This forced their hand.

When they did act, they took Crimea with virtually no consequence. Thank you, Obama, you ignorant schmuck. This was when we could have changed the trajectory. But nothing was done due to ignorance and the outright rejection of Cold War strategic norms among the new foreign affairs establishment.

That's Russian propaganda, and you likely know it is....

 

[Godboy]

Russia is not an Aggressor, and Ukraine is not a Victim

It is widely accepted that the Ukrainian crisis erupted into a military conflict on February 24, 2022, with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the seeds of the hostilities were planted about thirty years earlier by Pres...

www.americanthinker.com

American policy toward Russia has been devoid of historical perspective and definitive strategy since Obama was elected. Russia was clearly acting in its national interest by opposing NATO expansion eastward. We knew this. We just did not care. We chose to keep expanding NATO and just said “F-you, Russia”. This forced their hand.

When they did act, they took Crimea with virtually no consequence. Thank you, Obama, you ignorant schmuck. This was when we could have changed the trajectory. But nothing was done due to ignorance and the outright rejection of Cold War strategic norms among the new foreign affairs establishment.

All of this ^ is true, yet on the other hand, we are still enemies with them. Im always down to fuck over Russia. Youll never beat the 1980's out of me. Im stuck in that mindset permanently.

 

[BackAgain]

I don’t condone what Russia did. But from their perspective the expansion of NATO eastward was aggression aimed directly at them.

Maybe. But it doesn’t justify their criminal behavior.

 

[alang1216]

I honestly do not know what all the options Obama had were at the time. But building up Ukraine’s military immediately (instead of waiting 10 years and, thereby de facto ratifying Russia’s actions) was certainly one of them. Sanctions will real teeth was another. Putting a multilateral fleet in the Black Sea; liberating Crimea; building our energy production to supply Europe with their energy needs rather than waiting on the foreseeable (I.e., Russia selling oil and natural gas to Europe). Plus, I’m sure Russia relies on certain imports for certain parts of their economy. We could denied Russia of much of what they needed if we were more highly motivated.

So Russia was an aggressor then but is not now? I don't see that 10 years changes anything. What I think you forget is that the original sanctions were ineffective because they didn't have the full international support the current ones do.

 

[the watcher]

The MIC/security state/state department/DOD have been engineering coups, revolutions, and overthrowing governments and installing their own version for over 60 years with mixed success under the flag of "spreading democracy". What is there to suggest that their own government is off limits? Frontier articles on Society & Politics

 

[Godboy]

Russia is not an Aggressor, and Ukraine is not a Victim

It is widely accepted that the Ukrainian crisis erupted into a military conflict on February 24, 2022, with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the seeds of the hostilities were planted about thirty years earlier by Pres...

www.americanthinker.com

American policy toward Russia has been devoid of historical perspective and definitive strategy since Obama was elected. Russia was clearly acting in its national interest by opposing NATO expansion eastward. We knew this. We just did not care. We chose to keep expanding NATO and just said “F-you, Russia”. This forced their hand.

When they did act, they took Crimea with virtually no consequence. Thank you, Obama, you ignorant schmuck. This was when we could have changed the trajectory. But nothing was done due to ignorance and the outright rejection of Cold War strategic norms among the new foreign affairs establishment.

I think my position is that there should be no more land grabs. The borders of today will remain from now on. Anyone who attempts to change the world map through force deserves death and destruction.

 

[Care4all]

I don’t condone what Russia did. But from their perspective the expansion of NATO eastward was aggression aimed directly at them.

Does Russia think NATO expansion is to attack Russia? Why would Russia be worried about the NATO expansion?

Ukraine was not being accepted in to NATO, when he attacked Ukraine. NATO didn't think the Ukraine was ready to be a part of it....

Now though, Putin has lead NATO to think again.