Points Argued in Favor of Liberalism

[Hoosier4Liberty]

I think something that would benefit everyone is to understand the other side and the pivotal pieces of evidence they use to support their claims. I've posted a lot on why I believe that my ecnoomic philosophy is superior, through data comparing states and nations as well as discussing the concept of economic freedom.

I would ask fellow liberals for help on this, but I'd like to assemble a list of liberal arguments used in favor of supporting their economic policies. Then, we could proceed to have a debate on them.
I just want to make clear: I am not endorsing the other side's views, nor am I saying that these points are not debatable. I am just cataloging legitimate (not "Oh my Gosh Koch Brothers!!!!" or crud like that) arguments used on the side of the left.
I know a few:
1. Infrastructure, R&D, science spending declining as % of GDP.
2. Minimum wage in real $ relatively low historically
3. Wage stagnation in past several decades for middle class
4. Right to Work states not necessarily seeing good employment gains
5. Prosperity in 1950's with relatively high tax rates on wealthy and strong unions
6. Fact that most successful countries have government-run healthcare programs which run for lower costs than the US's
7. Increase in trade deficit with Mexico after NAFTA was passed (many liberals supported NAFTA like Clinton, but more Republicans than Democrats ultimately voted for it, and most hard-core liberals oppose it)

Liberals, if you want to add to this list with similar type points, please add them. We can then discuss them one-by-one.

 

[Nyvin]

Apart from social issues apparently?

 

[Pogo]

Not at all sure what the question is - or if there is one.

Complete sentences might help...

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

Apart from social issues apparently?

Yeah, I was just referring to economic issues.

Frankly, social issues, with the exception of abortion, change wildly from decade to decade. And social conservatism and economic conservatism share some bonds, but they're certainly not one and the same. Ditto with foreign policy.

So for this exercise, let's just contain it to the economic issues.

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

Not at all sure what the question is - or if there is one.

Complete sentences might help...

The numbers were just lists of facts/ideas that liberals use to criticize conservative economic policies. I invited liberals to add to the list and we could discuss the issues point by point. I think this is a good exercise to try to get to know one's opponent and hopefully try to see some common ground.

 

[KNB]

The global military-law enforcement-prison-pharmaceutical industrial complex.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hemp+for+victory&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
https://www.google.com/search?q=hemp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

 

[AntiParty]

I think something that would benefit everyone is to understand the other side and the pivotal pieces of evidence they use to support their claims. I've posted a lot on why I believe that my ecnoomic philosophy is superior, through data comparing states and nations as well as discussing the concept of economic freedom.

I would ask fellow liberals for help on this, but I'd like to assemble a list of liberal arguments used in favor of supporting their economic policies. Then, we could proceed to have a debate on them.
I just want to make clear: I am not endorsing the other side's views, nor am I saying that these points are not debatable. I am just cataloging legitimate (not "Oh my Gosh Koch Brothers!!!!" or crud like that) arguments used on the side of the left.
I know a few:
1. Infrastructure, R&D, science spending declining as % of GDP.
2. Minimum wage in real $ relatively low historically
3. Wage stagnation in past several decades for middle class
4. Right to Work states not necessarily seeing good employment gains
5. Prosperity in 1950's with relatively high tax rates on wealthy and strong unions
6. Fact that most successful countries have government-run healthcare programs which run for lower costs than the US's
7. Increase in trade deficit with Mexico after NAFTA was passed (many liberals supported NAFTA like Clinton, but more Republicans than Democrats ultimately voted for it, and most hard-core liberals oppose it)

Liberals, if you want to add to this list with similar type points, please add them. We can then discuss them one-by-one.

Liberals, if you want to add to this list with similar type points, please add them.
Sure. But I just study politics and don't fall into "liberals"

8) Liberal amounts of Freedom
9) Liberal amounts of education
10) Liberal amounts of Constitution

Or maybe you like a lot of America are confused on what Liberal and Conservative actually mean. I see Liberals wanting to end laws against gays, and Conservatives wanting to keep it which is an oxymoron. It's Liberal amounts of Government and not Liberal amounts of Freedom.

It's important we use these terms by their definition in the future. Liberal isn't always good. Conservative isn't always good.

 

[AntiParty]

The global military-law enforcement-prison-pharmaceutical industrial complex.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hemp+for+victory&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
https://www.google.com/search?q=hemp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

I hate you dude. I was much more happy years back when I was a Libertarian and didn't have to think about anything (not really, I constantly thought about why they don't think).

I'm going to have to learn more. I knew about the Military Industrial Complex and the reason we are going to so many wars for basically no reason but now this?

Thank you, but I hate you. Time for more homework to ensure I'm on the correct side of future political debates.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The global military-law enforcement-prison-pharmaceutical industrial complex.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hemp+for+victory&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
https://www.google.com/search?q=hemp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

Glad I'm not their lobbyist. Their business card must be an 8 x 12 with that name.

 

[Wildman]

I think something that would benefit everyone is to understand the other side and the pivotal pieces of evidence they use to support their claims. I've posted a lot on why I believe that my ecnoomic philosophy is superior, through data comparing states and nations as well as discussing the concept of economic freedom.

I would ask fellow liberals for help on this, but I'd like to assemble a list of liberal arguments used in favor of supporting their economic policies. Then, we could proceed to have a debate on them.
I just want to make clear: I am not endorsing the other side's views, nor am I saying that these points are not debatable. I am just cataloging legitimate (not "Oh my Gosh Koch Brothers!!!!" or crud like that) arguments used on the side of the left.
I know a few:
1. Infrastructure, R&D, science spending declining as % of GDP.
2. Minimum wage in real $ relatively low historically
3. Wage stagnation in past several decades for middle class
4. Right to Work states not necessarily seeing good employment gains
5. Prosperity in 1950's with relatively high tax rates on wealthy and strong unions
6. Fact that most successful countries have government-run healthcare programs which run for lower costs than the US's
7. Increase in trade deficit with Mexico after NAFTA was passed (many liberals supported NAFTA like Clinton, but more Republicans than Democrats ultimately voted for it, and most hard-core liberals oppose it)

Liberals, if you want to add to this list with similar type points, please add them. We can then discuss them one-by-one.

1. Infrastructure, R&D, science spending declining as % of GDP. (OK )

2. Minimum wage in real $ relatively low historically (as it should be, M.W. was and is NOT intended to be a living, family supporting wage, it as we conservatives call, "a stepping stone" towards a better job or towards a better position at the F.F. joint. )

3. Wage stagnation in past several decades for middle class (not true. !! in my opinion "several decades" would take us back to B&W TV that you actually had to touch to change volume, channels, oooooh, and don't forget the Horiz. Hold, Dick Tracy two way radio, pay phone booths, 78 RPM albums etc., today, people can sit on a park bench and watch TV, make a phone call, take pictures on the same device, forget the albums, you can access hundreds of thousands of music on that same device. people could NOT buy those items with decades old wages )

4. Right to Work states not necessarily seeing good employment gains (is anyone ?)


5. Prosperity in 1950's with relatively high tax rates on wealthy and strong unions (i knew it come to "TAX THE HELL OUT OF THE RICH", NO ! keep the tax rates as is if not lower them, THEN, delete the fucking loop holes, or better yet, a consumer tax, kinda like, "pay at the pump". )

6. Fact that most successful countries have government-run healthcare programs which run for lower costs than the US's (and their personal taxe$ are outrageous )

7. Increase in trade deficit with Mexico after NAFTA was passed (many liberals supported NAFTA like Clinton, but more Republicans than Democrats ultimately voted for it, and most hard-core liberals oppose it) (i am neutral on this)

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

I think something that would benefit everyone is to understand the other side and the pivotal pieces of evidence they use to support their claims. I've posted a lot on why I believe that my ecnoomic philosophy is superior, through data comparing states and nations as well as discussing the concept of economic freedom.

I would ask fellow liberals for help on this, but I'd like to assemble a list of liberal arguments used in favor of supporting their economic policies. Then, we could proceed to have a debate on them.
I just want to make clear: I am not endorsing the other side's views, nor am I saying that these points are not debatable. I am just cataloging legitimate (not "Oh my Gosh Koch Brothers!!!!" or crud like that) arguments used on the side of the left.
I know a few:
1. Infrastructure, R&D, science spending declining as % of GDP.
2. Minimum wage in real $ relatively low historically
3. Wage stagnation in past several decades for middle class
4. Right to Work states not necessarily seeing good employment gains
5. Prosperity in 1950's with relatively high tax rates on wealthy and strong unions
6. Fact that most successful countries have government-run healthcare programs which run for lower costs than the US's
7. Increase in trade deficit with Mexico after NAFTA was passed (many liberals supported NAFTA like Clinton, but more Republicans than Democrats ultimately voted for it, and most hard-core liberals oppose it)

Liberals, if you want to add to this list with similar type points, please add them. We can then discuss them one-by-one.

1. Infrastructure, R&D, science spending declining as % of GDP. (OK )

2. Minimum wage in real $ relatively low historically (as it should be, M.W. was and is NOT intended to be a living, family supporting wage, it as we conservatives call, "a stepping stone" towards a better job or towards a better position at the F.F. joint. )

3. Wage stagnation in past several decades for middle class (not true. !! in my opinion "several decades" would take us back to B&W TV that you actually had to touch to change volume, channels, oooooh, and don't forget the Horiz. Hold, Dick Tracy two way radio, pay phone booths, 78 RPM albums etc., today, people can sit on a park bench and watch TV, make a phone call, take pictures on the same device, forget the albums, you can access hundreds of thousands of music on that same device. people could NOT buy those items with decades old wages )

4. Right to Work states not necessarily seeing good employment gains (is anyone ?)


5. Prosperity in 1950's with relatively high tax rates on wealthy and strong unions (i knew it come to "TAX THE HELL OUT OF THE RICH", NO ! keep the tax rates as is if not lower them, THEN, delete the fucking loop holes, or better yet, a consumer tax, kinda like, "pay at the pump". )

6. Fact that most successful countries have government-run healthcare programs which run for lower costs than the US's (and their personal taxe$ are outrageous )

7. Increase in trade deficit with Mexico after NAFTA was passed (many liberals supported NAFTA like Clinton, but more Republicans than Democrats ultimately voted for it, and most hard-core liberals oppose it) (i am neutral on this)

All these are very good points, and I agree with you on most of them. But I wrote those down because they are some of the most meritorious liberal arguments and thus were worth discussion.

 

[American4Americ]

I think something that would benefit everyone is to understand the other side and the pivotal pieces of evidence they use to support their claims. I've posted a lot on why I believe that my ecnoomic philosophy is superior, through data comparing states and nations as well as discussing the concept of economic freedom.

I would ask fellow liberals for help on this, but I'd like to assemble a list of liberal arguments used in favor of supporting their economic policies. Then, we could proceed to have a debate on them.
I just want to make clear: I am not endorsing the other side's views, nor am I saying that these points are not debatable. I am just cataloging legitimate (not "Oh my Gosh Koch Brothers!!!!" or crud like that) arguments used on the side of the left.
I know a few:
1. Infrastructure, R&D, science spending declining as % of GDP.
2. Minimum wage in real $ relatively low historically
3. Wage stagnation in past several decades for middle class
4. Right to Work states not necessarily seeing good employment gains
5. Prosperity in 1950's with relatively high tax rates on wealthy and strong unions
6. Fact that most successful countries have government-run healthcare programs which run for lower costs than the US's
7. Increase in trade deficit with Mexico after NAFTA was passed (many liberals supported NAFTA like Clinton, but more Republicans than Democrats ultimately voted for it, and most hard-core liberals oppose it)

Liberals, if you want to add to this list with similar type points, please add them. We can then discuss them one-by-one.

1. Infrastructure, R&D, science spending declining as % of GDP. (OK )

2. Minimum wage in real $ relatively low historically (as it should be, M.W. was and is NOT intended to be a living, family supporting wage, it as we conservatives call, "a stepping stone" towards a better job or towards a better position at the F.F. joint. )

3. Wage stagnation in past several decades for middle class (not true. !! in my opinion "several decades" would take us back to B&W TV that you actually had to touch to change volume, channels, oooooh, and don't forget the Horiz. Hold, Dick Tracy two way radio, pay phone booths, 78 RPM albums etc., today, people can sit on a park bench and watch TV, make a phone call, take pictures on the same device, forget the albums, you can access hundreds of thousands of music on that same device. people could NOT buy those items with decades old wages )

4. Right to Work states not necessarily seeing good employment gains (is anyone ?)


5. Prosperity in 1950's with relatively high tax rates on wealthy and strong unions (i knew it come to "TAX THE HELL OUT OF THE RICH", NO ! keep the tax rates as is if not lower them, THEN, delete the fucking loop holes, or better yet, a consumer tax, kinda like, "pay at the pump". )

6. Fact that most successful countries have government-run healthcare programs which run for lower costs than the US's (and their personal taxe$ are outrageous )

7. Increase in trade deficit with Mexico after NAFTA was passed (many liberals supported NAFTA like Clinton, but more Republicans than Democrats ultimately voted for it, and most hard-core liberals oppose it) (i am neutral on this)

All these are very good points, and I agree with you on most of them. But I wrote those down because they are some of the most meritorious liberal arguments and thus were worth discussion.

There never was, nor will there ever be a leftist argument worth discussion.