Phoney Sick Notes From WI MDs

[Annie]

Excuse notes from docs at protests draw scrutiny

So, lemme get this straight. Protesters want to be paid for their days away from work, so they call in sick. To get those days paid, they need a doctor's note. To show solidarity with the protesters, some doctors are issuing these notes at the site of the protest by the thousands.

Anyone besides me see a possible ethical issue or two here?

Only in America are people so fat and lazy, they want to be paid to protest. What a clusterfuck this is becoming.

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

The collective bargaining rights the state workers have are by state law, not state consitution. Therefore those rights can be revoked by changing the state law creating them. The Governor is using the system as intended.

The Teachers on the other hand, are mis-using a part of thier contract with the state to avoid repercussions of thier not reporting to thier job. They and their doctors are also commiting fraud against the state.

Trying to make excuses for this only makes it seem even more wrong.

Thus my response to Chanel:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ney-sick-notes-from-wi-mds-2.html#post3349971

 

[boedicca]

Civil Service Codes and laws already exist. Just what is it that Collective Bargaining for Public Employees is intended to accomplish?

Answer: the extraction of more and more taxpayer money to benefit the unions and provide financial support to the Democratic Party.

 

[Oddball]

The teachers are protesting something dear to their hearts...the right to be heard by their employers.

If they accept the consequences that they can be fired for calling in sick then that is their choice to make.

A little civil disobedience is often a good thing...unless you're a rightwingloon, of course.

by trying the whole sick note thing, they are not accepting the consequences of thier civil disobedience, they are attempting to get around it.

Accepting would be showing up to work the next week, and when asked where they were, telling the truth. "I was at the protest, what are you going to do about it" By presenting false doctors notes they are committing fraud, as are the doctors.

I dont remember MLK getting doctors notes to get him out of Birmingham Jail.

Might as well just sign the notes "Epstein's Mother" and make the fraud complete.

 

[Ravi]

Yeah, I supposed they should just roll over and write letters of protest...that will get them somewhere.

 

[Two Thumbs]

The University of Wisconsin medical school says it's investigating reports that doctors from the school handed out medical excuse notes to protesters at the state Capitol this weekend.

Doctors from numerous hospitals set up a station near the Capitol on Saturday to provide notes to explain public employees' absences from work. One of those doctors was Lou Sanner, who practices family medicine at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. Sanner said he had given out hundreds of notes to protesters and many he spoke with seemed to be suffering from stress.

UW Health said Sunday that any doctors who distributed notes did so on their own behalf. The school didn't specifically mention Sanner but said it was looking into cases involving any of the school's doctors.

Excuse notes from docs at protests draw scrutiny

So, lemme get this straight. Protesters want to be paid for their days away from work, so they call in sick. To get those days paid, they need a doctor's note. To show solidarity with the protesters, some doctors are issuing these notes at the site of the protest by the thousands.

Anyone besides me see a possible ethical issue or two here?

Only in America are people so fat and lazy, they want to be paid to protest. What a clusterfuck this is becoming.

Holy Shit!!

Maddy is a, a, *gasp, choke* Republican!

whodathunkit?

Yes, it's illegal to lie on medical records. Each doctor or nurse there needs to have thier licensed pulled and be fired. Each teacher caught with fake excuses likewise should be fired.

It's theft. plain and simple.

 

[Annie]

Yeah, I supposed they should just roll over and write letters of protest...that will get them somewhere.

You mean like those actually practicing civil disobedience would? Got it. What you mean is use any excuse, as the ends justify the means, when YOU agree with the ends.

 

[boedicca]

Taxes, Ethics, Rules, and Laws are for the Little People, donchaknow.

 

[Barb]

if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

And here we see the STARK MORALITY of Public Employee Unions: Fuck The System.

Thank you for clarifying it so succinctly.

I'm not a union employee, neither am I a teacher.
FAIL.
WHY is it okay for the more powerful to fuck the weak, but inexcusable for the weak to use they system they work within to gain a little leverage?
There is some really ass backwards mentality at work here, and it isn't mine.

 

[martybegan]

Yeah, I supposed they should just roll over and write letters of protest...that will get them somewhere.

What they needed to do was accept the consequences of thier actions. Tell their supervisors they were out protesting, and then basically dare them to fire them. That would be a hell of a more effective protest measure then trying to weasel out some pay using sick time.

Modern protestors seem to lose sight of the fact that the core of non violent resistance is accepting the mandated consequences of your actions, be it imprisonment or unemployment. Your goal is to shame those in power into accepting your position, and to rally popular support to your side.

Todays protestors are more likely to scream for a lawyer to get them out of jail then to sit in the jail, accept the percived injustice of being jailed for an action, and then using that to force acceptance of your position.

Basically I'm calling modern american protestors a bunch of wimps compared to those who came before them.

 

[Annie]

if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

And here we see the STARK MORALITY of Public Employee Unions: Fuck The System.

Thank you for clarifying it so succinctly.

I'm not a union employee, neither am I a teacher.
FAIL.
WHY is it okay for the more powerful to fuck the weak, but inexcusable for the weak to use they system they work within to gain a little leverage?
There is some really ass backwards mentality at work here, and it isn't mine.

Like Ravi, find any old excuse for ends justifying the means, that YOU agree with.

 

[Barb]

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

There you have it, folks...The unabashed and blatant disregard for contractual agreements, the law and ethics that is part and parcel of the totalitarian left in America.

I find it quite refreshing that y'all are finally coming out of the closet.

DUDE, have we met? I was never IN the "closet." If the law is an ass, and in this case it is, it needs to be flouted in order that it be changed.

 

[Barb]

Excuse notes from docs at protests draw scrutiny

So, lemme get this straight. Protesters want to be paid for their days away from work, so they call in sick. To get those days paid, they need a doctor's note. To show solidarity with the protesters, some doctors are issuing these notes at the site of the protest by the thousands.

Anyone besides me see a possible ethical issue or two here?

Only in America are people so fat and lazy, they want to be paid to protest. What a clusterfuck this is becoming.

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

The collective bargaining rights the state workers have are by state law, not state consitution. Therefore those rights can be revoked by changing the state law creating them. The Governor is using the system as intended.

The Teachers on the other hand, are mis-using a part of thier contract with the state to avoid repercussions of thier not reporting to thier job. They and their doctors are also commiting fraud against the state.

Trying to make excuses for this only makes it seem even more wrong.

Opinions vary.

 

[Annie]

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

The collective bargaining rights the state workers have are by state law, not state consitution. Therefore those rights can be revoked by changing the state law creating them. The Governor is using the system as intended.

The Teachers on the other hand, are mis-using a part of thier contract with the state to avoid repercussions of thier not reporting to thier job. They and their doctors are also commiting fraud against the state.

Trying to make excuses for this only makes it seem even more wrong.

Opinions vary.

Yep, those that think that lying is wrong think the calling in sick and writing fake notes are wrong.

Those that think the above are great, because they agree with what they hope will be the ends, like what they are seeing. Of course, if they didn't agree with those engaging in such behaviors, they'd go all self-righteous on the issue. Hypocrite.

 

[Madeline]

Teachers do not get random vacation time nor are they permitted unpaid leave. They had to use sick time. I am not excusing it, but that's the only way they could have gone to the protest.

Bullshit. How about calling in and saying "I'm healthy but I refuse to work so I can go protest"?

 

[Madeline]

Teachers do not get random vacation time nor are they permitted unpaid leave. They had to use sick time. I am not excusing it, but that's the only way they could have gone to the protest.

The doctors committed fraud by handing out notes to people who clearly were not sick.

Stress is a valid medical diagnosis.

What nonsense, Ravi. How many MDs do you know who can diagnosis a stress injury in THOUSANDS of people a day? Where's the doctor-patient relationship?

 

[Barb]

Yeah, I supposed they should just roll over and write letters of protest...that will get them somewhere.

What they needed to do was accept the consequences of thier actions. Tell their supervisors they were out protesting, and then basically dare them to fire them. That would be a hell of a more effective protest measure then trying to weasel out some pay using sick time.

Modern protestors seem to lose sight of the fact that the core of non violent resistance is accepting the mandated consequences of your actions, be it imprisonment or unemployment. Your goal is to shame those in power into accepting your position, and to rally popular support to your side.

Todays protestors are more likely to scream for a lawyer to get them out of jail then to sit in the jail, accept the percived injustice of being jailed for an action, and then using that to force acceptance of your position.

Basically I'm calling modern american protestors a bunch of wimps compared to those who came before them.

collective bargaining was SUPPOSED to reduce liability for um, collective bargaining, meat-head(s). Stipulations as to unpaid leave (you can get FIRED for unpaid time, as has been pointed out) were designed to fuck strikers.
It isn't rocket science, but is astounds me the number of people who just don't get it. ANY of it.

 

[Madeline]

The University of Wisconsin medical school says it's investigating reports that doctors from the school handed out medical excuse notes to protesters at the state Capitol this weekend.

Doctors from numerous hospitals set up a station near the Capitol on Saturday to provide notes to explain public employees' absences from work. One of those doctors was Lou Sanner, who practices family medicine at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. Sanner said he had given out hundreds of notes to protesters and many he spoke with seemed to be suffering from stress.

UW Health said Sunday that any doctors who distributed notes did so on their own behalf. The school didn't specifically mention Sanner but said it was looking into cases involving any of the school's doctors.

Excuse notes from docs at protests draw scrutiny

So, lemme get this straight. Protesters want to be paid for their days away from work, so they call in sick. To get those days paid, they need a doctor's note. To show solidarity with the protesters, some doctors are issuing these notes at the site of the protest by the thousands.

Anyone besides me see a possible ethical issue or two here?

Only in America are people so fat and lazy, they want to be paid to protest. What a clusterfuck this is becoming.

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

You are asking me if teachers should commit perjury (I had to sign all my government time sheets "under penalties of perjury") so they can embezzle funds and whether MDs should conspire with them to do so?

Why can't they just protest WITHOUT pay?

 

[Madeline]

xotoxi gave the ethical response, which Ravi wouldn't recognize if it slapped her on the ass and called her Judy.

so Xo wants to charge money for his services, he's is certainly welcome to do so.

Not all doctors are only about profit.

I'd say embezzling from taxpayers to pay people to protest is "about money", Ravi.

 

[Annie]

Yeah, I supposed they should just roll over and write letters of protest...that will get them somewhere.

What they needed to do was accept the consequences of thier actions. Tell their supervisors they were out protesting, and then basically dare them to fire them. That would be a hell of a more effective protest measure then trying to weasel out some pay using sick time.

Modern protestors seem to lose sight of the fact that the core of non violent resistance is accepting the mandated consequences of your actions, be it imprisonment or unemployment. Your goal is to shame those in power into accepting your position, and to rally popular support to your side.

Todays protestors are more likely to scream for a lawyer to get them out of jail then to sit in the jail, accept the percived injustice of being jailed for an action, and then using that to force acceptance of your position.

Basically I'm calling modern american protestors a bunch of wimps compared to those who came before them.

collective bargaining was SUPPOSED to reduce liability for um, collective bargaining, meat-head(s). Stipulations as to unpaid leave (you can get FIRED for unpaid time, as has been pointed out) were designed to fuck strikers.
It isn't rocket science, but is astounds me the number of people who just don't get it. ANY of it.

I get it. Not hard to understand. They are not protesting on principle, but for their personal gain. Nothing about civil disobedience and such nonsense. They are willing to sacrifice the professional standards, their students education time, and steal tax money, because if they stand on principle they'd risk being fired. If they did what contracted to do, they couldn't attend protest.

They'd still have many ways of letting their feelings be known to community and elected officials, but heh, then they'd have to do the right thing on a few different fronts.

 

[Madeline]

The teachers are protesting something dear to their hearts...the right to be heard by their employers.

If they accept the consequences that they can be fired for calling in sick then that is their choice to make.

A little civil disobedience is often a good thing...unless you're a rightwingloon, of course.

Hey, I like a good protest as well as the next guy. But when was the last time you heard of GM paying striking auto workers? Never?

That'd be right.

Why didn't these public employee unions hoard cash for a strike fund, like UAW does, rather than expecting the workers to defraud the taxpayers?