Phoney Sick Notes From WI MDs

[Oddball]

collective bargaining was SUPPOSED to reduce liability for um, collective bargaining, meat-head(s). Stipulations as to unpaid leave (you can get FIRED for unpaid time, as has been pointed out) were designed to fuck strikers.
It isn't rocket science, but is astounds me the number of people who just don't get it. ANY of it.

We get it just fine...You're rationalizing illegal wildcat strikes, breach of contract, fraud, removal of minor students form school premises without parental permission and medical malpractice because the ends justify the means.

Like I said, it's quite refreshing to see what a truly lawless bunch of anarchists y'all really are.

 

[Big Black Dog]

The University of Wisconsin medical school says it's investigating reports that doctors from the school handed out medical excuse notes to protesters at the state Capitol this weekend.

Doctors from numerous hospitals set up a station near the Capitol on Saturday to provide notes to explain public employees' absences from work. One of those doctors was Lou Sanner, who practices family medicine at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. Sanner said he had given out hundreds of notes to protesters and many he spoke with seemed to be suffering from stress.

UW Health said Sunday that any doctors who distributed notes did so on their own behalf. The school didn't specifically mention Sanner but said it was looking into cases involving any of the school's doctors.

Excuse notes from docs at protests draw scrutiny

So, lemme get this straight. Protesters want to be paid for their days away from work, so they call in sick. To get those days paid, they need a doctor's note. To show solidarity with the protesters, some doctors are issuing these notes at the site of the protest by the thousands.

Anyone besides me see a possible ethical issue or two here?

Only in America are people so fat and lazy, they want to be paid to protest. What a clusterfuck this is becoming.

Wonder if these phony sick notes will cut the cheese?

 

[Annie]

Excuse notes from docs at protests draw scrutiny

So, lemme get this straight. Protesters want to be paid for their days away from work, so they call in sick. To get those days paid, they need a doctor's note. To show solidarity with the protesters, some doctors are issuing these notes at the site of the protest by the thousands.

Anyone besides me see a possible ethical issue or two here?

Only in America are people so fat and lazy, they want to be paid to protest. What a clusterfuck this is becoming.

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

You are asking me if teachers should commit perjury (I had to sign all my government time sheets "under penalties of perjury") so they can embezzle funds and whether MDs should conspire with them to do so?

Why can't they just protest WITHOUT pay?

They might get fired, unlikely. Likely there would be written reprimand in file. That's the price of doing what they think right. Lying and taking the money is easier, actually pain free, since they can say they did if "For the Children."

 

[Barb]

Excuse notes from docs at protests draw scrutiny

So, lemme get this straight. Protesters want to be paid for their days away from work, so they call in sick. To get those days paid, they need a doctor's note. To show solidarity with the protesters, some doctors are issuing these notes at the site of the protest by the thousands.

Anyone besides me see a possible ethical issue or two here?

Only in America are people so fat and lazy, they want to be paid to protest. What a clusterfuck this is becoming.

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

You are asking me if teachers should commit perjury (I had to sign all my government time sheets "under penalties of perjury") so they can embezzle funds and whether MDs should conspire with them to do so?

Why can't they just protest WITHOUT pay?

Because, as has already been explained, off time without pay is constituted (within the system they're protesting AGAINST) AS a reason for termination. It was designed to stifle dissent.

 

[whitehall]

If Dr. Sanner doesn't lose his license it's proof that the inmates are running the asylum.

 

[Madeline]

if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

And here we see the STARK MORALITY of Public Employee Unions: Fuck The System.

Thank you for clarifying it so succinctly.

I'm not a union employee, neither am I a teacher.
FAIL.
WHY is it okay for the more powerful to fuck the weak, but inexcusable for the weak to use they system they work within to gain a little leverage?
There is some really ass backwards mentality at work here, and it isn't mine.

We aren't talking about gaming the system here, Barb. This is fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud, perjury, falsifying medical records, etc.

This is a bad thing, and it was not necessary.

 

[Annie]

The teachers are protesting something dear to their hearts...the right to be heard by their employers.

If they accept the consequences that they can be fired for calling in sick then that is their choice to make.

A little civil disobedience is often a good thing...unless you're a rightwingloon, of course.

Hey, I like a good protest as well as the next guy. But when was the last time you heard of GM paying striking auto workers? Never?

That'd be right.

Why didn't these public employee unions hoard cash for a strike fund, like UAW does, rather than expecting the workers to defraud the taxpayers?

They'd have to call it a strike, but it's not. It's a political strategy that is backfiring, big time.

 

[martybegan]

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

The collective bargaining rights the state workers have are by state law, not state consitution. Therefore those rights can be revoked by changing the state law creating them. The Governor is using the system as intended.

The Teachers on the other hand, are mis-using a part of thier contract with the state to avoid repercussions of thier not reporting to thier job. They and their doctors are also commiting fraud against the state.

Trying to make excuses for this only makes it seem even more wrong.

Opinions vary.

There are no opinions in my statements, those are facts. Just because you dont like them doesnt make them false.

Notice my statements include nothing about the rightness or wrongness of the situation, those would be opinions.

 

[Madeline]

Yeah, I supposed they should just roll over and write letters of protest...that will get them somewhere.

What they needed to do was accept the consequences of thier actions. Tell their supervisors they were out protesting, and then basically dare them to fire them. That would be a hell of a more effective protest measure then trying to weasel out some pay using sick time.

Modern protestors seem to lose sight of the fact that the core of non violent resistance is accepting the mandated consequences of your actions, be it imprisonment or unemployment. Your goal is to shame those in power into accepting your position, and to rally popular support to your side.

Todays protestors are more likely to scream for a lawyer to get them out of jail then to sit in the jail, accept the percived injustice of being jailed for an action, and then using that to force acceptance of your position.

Basically I'm calling modern american protestors a bunch of wimps compared to those who came before them.

collective bargaining was SUPPOSED to reduce liability for um, collective bargaining, meat-head(s). Stipulations as to unpaid leave (you can get FIRED for unpaid time, as has been pointed out) were designed to fuck strikers.
It isn't rocket science, but is astounds me the number of people who just don't get it. ANY of it.

Then the place to resolve this is on the state house floor, or the contract negotiation room, Barb. You dun accept a job and agree to the conditions, then find a MD to help you defraud your employer out of the benefit of the bargain. That is wrong.

 

[manifold]

Calling out sick is their only legal recourse if they want to protest.


Get over it people. It ain't got nothin to do with the larger issue being debated in WI.

 

[martybegan]

Yeah, I supposed they should just roll over and write letters of protest...that will get them somewhere.

What they needed to do was accept the consequences of thier actions. Tell their supervisors they were out protesting, and then basically dare them to fire them. That would be a hell of a more effective protest measure then trying to weasel out some pay using sick time.

Modern protestors seem to lose sight of the fact that the core of non violent resistance is accepting the mandated consequences of your actions, be it imprisonment or unemployment. Your goal is to shame those in power into accepting your position, and to rally popular support to your side.

Todays protestors are more likely to scream for a lawyer to get them out of jail then to sit in the jail, accept the percived injustice of being jailed for an action, and then using that to force acceptance of your position.

Basically I'm calling modern american protestors a bunch of wimps compared to those who came before them.

collective bargaining was SUPPOSED to reduce liability for um, collective bargaining, meat-head(s). Stipulations as to unpaid leave (you can get FIRED for unpaid time, as has been pointed out) were designed to fuck strikers.
It isn't rocket science, but is astounds me the number of people who just don't get it. ANY of it.

They had that provision in thier contract. They are then faced with two choices, if they dont feel strongly enough about this to risk thier jobs, protest after school or on a saturday. If they do, then leave work and protest, and be ready to accept the consequences.

Since when has change via people power been easy? You have to risk something to get change.

 

[Barb]

The collective bargaining rights the state workers have are by state law, not state consitution. Therefore those rights can be revoked by changing the state law creating them. The Governor is using the system as intended.

The Teachers on the other hand, are mis-using a part of thier contract with the state to avoid repercussions of thier not reporting to thier job. They and their doctors are also commiting fraud against the state.

Trying to make excuses for this only makes it seem even more wrong.

Opinions vary.

There are no opinions in my statements, those are facts. Just because you dont like them doesnt make them false.

Notice my statements include nothing about the rightness or wrongness of the situation, those would be opinions.

Sweetness, I didn't call you a "liar." State law doesn't make anything "right," it only makes it "law."

 

[Annie]

Calling out sick is their only legal recourse if they want to protest.


Get over it people. It ain't got nothin to do with the larger issue being debated in WI.

Except it wasn't legal.

 

[manifold]

Calling out sick is their only legal recourse if they want to protest.


Get over it people. It ain't got nothin to do with the larger issue being debated in WI.

Except it wasn't legal.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Barb]

What they needed to do was accept the consequences of thier actions. Tell their supervisors they were out protesting, and then basically dare them to fire them. That would be a hell of a more effective protest measure then trying to weasel out some pay using sick time.

Modern protestors seem to lose sight of the fact that the core of non violent resistance is accepting the mandated consequences of your actions, be it imprisonment or unemployment. Your goal is to shame those in power into accepting your position, and to rally popular support to your side.

Todays protestors are more likely to scream for a lawyer to get them out of jail then to sit in the jail, accept the percived injustice of being jailed for an action, and then using that to force acceptance of your position.

Basically I'm calling modern american protestors a bunch of wimps compared to those who came before them.

collective bargaining was SUPPOSED to reduce liability for um, collective bargaining, meat-head(s). Stipulations as to unpaid leave (you can get FIRED for unpaid time, as has been pointed out) were designed to fuck strikers.
It isn't rocket science, but is astounds me the number of people who just don't get it. ANY of it.

Then the place to resolve this is on the state house floor, or the contract negotiation room, Barb. You dun accept a job and agree to the conditions, then find a MD to help you defraud your employer out of the benefit of the bargain. That is wrong.

Maddie, it seems a # of teachers disagree with you, as do their doctors. As do I.

 

[Madeline]

Patients present (express) the right symptoms, doctors write the note.
They aren't comp docs, they are gen practitioners...and members of their community...
if the system is trying to fuck the teachers, is it really SO wrong for the teachers to try to fuck the system?

You are asking me if teachers should commit perjury (I had to sign all my government time sheets "under penalties of perjury") so they can embezzle funds and whether MDs should conspire with them to do so?

Why can't they just protest WITHOUT pay?

Because, as has already been explained, off time without pay is constituted (within the system they're protesting AGAINST) AS a reason for termination. It was designed to stifle dissent.

Okay, let's say you're right...that the union gave up strike rights. The teachers belong to the union, elected their representatives, etc. The contract was negotiated in good faith. The no-strike rule (if one exists) has great value to the employer.

I'm not convinced you ARE right, but if so, for teachers to now seek to evade this prohibition by fraud is criminal and defeats their most appealing argument -- that contracts should be enforcable even when they prove painful for one party.

 

[martybegan]

Calling out sick is their only legal recourse if they want to protest.


Get over it people. It ain't got nothin to do with the larger issue being debated in WI.

The whole point is that is it is NOT legal. They are committing fraud.

If they actually all just reported back to work without a reason, they would have an even a stronger case against the state, as daring the state to fire them would result in

1) The state backing down, and a propaganda win

2) The state firing them, and REALLY firing up thier base

Instead they look greedy a sin, trying to get paid with Taxpayers money for skipping out of work.

Does anyone even know how protests are supposed to work anymore?

 

[Annie]

collective bargaining was SUPPOSED to reduce liability for um, collective bargaining, meat-head(s). Stipulations as to unpaid leave (you can get FIRED for unpaid time, as has been pointed out) were designed to fuck strikers.
It isn't rocket science, but is astounds me the number of people who just don't get it. ANY of it.

Then the place to resolve this is on the state house floor, or the contract negotiation room, Barb. You dun accept a job and agree to the conditions, then find a MD to help you defraud your employer out of the benefit of the bargain. That is wrong.

Maddie, it seems a # of teachers disagree with you, as do their doctors. As do I.

Because you think that the teachers who committed fraud and the doctors, who also committed fraud in order to help hide the fraudulent behavior of the teachers, agree with them all.

Barb this is not complicated.

 

[manifold]

Fraud!

The self-righteous indignation of you guys is a hoot to behold.

 

[martybegan]

collective bargaining was SUPPOSED to reduce liability for um, collective bargaining, meat-head(s). Stipulations as to unpaid leave (you can get FIRED for unpaid time, as has been pointed out) were designed to fuck strikers.
It isn't rocket science, but is astounds me the number of people who just don't get it. ANY of it.

Then the place to resolve this is on the state house floor, or the contract negotiation room, Barb. You dun accept a job and agree to the conditions, then find a MD to help you defraud your employer out of the benefit of the bargain. That is wrong.

Maddie, it seems a # of teachers disagree with you, as do their doctors. As do I.

Doesnt make them right. If I present a document to my employer, that states i was ill, and I was not ill, that is fraud, no matter how much people try to sugar coat it.

I still seem to recall fraud being illegal.

Again, not opinion, fact.