'Pay Teachers More'

[Lasher]

Teachers should be paid on a merit basis, according to the proficiency of the students in their classes.

 

[Rogo]

How's the weather there in La-La land??

Is there a reason to revert to antagonism?

Teachers should be paid on a merit basis, according to the proficiency of the students in their classes.

I agree with the concept, but I think it's a bit flawed. There will always be "bad" students who are unwilling to learn/participate in class.

 

[Annie]

My wife teaches, she could have done just about anything in the business world but in the olden times - said facetiously - women taught, were mothers and home makers before returning to teaching. Because I have worked in corporate America, we live well. But if you are a teacher and bread winner, another old term, you'd have a tough go of it in America today. If we want a nation of educated citizens we must value education and pay for it, seems simple.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&hp

By Nicholas D. Kristof

"From the debates in Wisconsin and elsewhere about public sector unions, you might get the impression that we’re going bust because teachers are overpaid.

That’s a pernicious fallacy. A basic educational challenge is not that teachers are raking it in, but that they are underpaid. If we want to compete with other countries, and chip away at poverty across America, then we need to pay teachers more so as to attract better people into the profession."

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...-disaster-for-higher-education-in-nevada.html

That's an interesting idea and is based on absolutely nothing.

Right now the highest paid teachers in the industrialized world are teaching in the Public Schools in the USA.

Those teachers are producing a product, test scores achieved by their students of the 12th grade, that rank 19th in the industrialized world right behind the Czech Republic.

Our teachers already are the highest paid on the planet and their work is substandard.

Our private school teachers are paid less and produce a higher quality product.

Since paying higher wages has not helped to produce higher test scores, what do you propose the amount of increase to be to produce higher scores?

In the Czech Republic, the teachers are paid about 1/5 the wage of teachers in the USA and produce better results.

No, we don't have the highest paid teachers in the world.
South Korea
Germany
Netherlands
Hong Kong
England
Australia
Finland
Singapore
Belgium
All pay more than the US.
Compared to other countries, U.S. flunks in teacher pay

Comparing test scores between the Czech Republic and the US is like comparing apples and oranges. In the Czech Republic and a number of other countries, after graduating from elementary schools, students must pass an entrance exam before they are allowed to enter high school. Students that don't pass and there are many, enter vocational schools. To make the comparison even more ridiculous, the students in these countries don't take the same test.
Czech Republic - Educational System

I don't know how you compare private and public school achievement because private schools do not use the same tests as public schools.

Private schools can pick and choose their students where public schools must accept all students. They don't have the huge financial burden of educating special ed. kids, second language kids, problem kids, or any kids that will be a financial burden to the school. They leave this to the public schools so of course they are going to have lower costs per pupil.

As for comparing US with the states you do regarding salaries, you have to level the playing field. Which kids to educate in a prep for college environment. All? The top 1/2? The top 1/4? By report cards? By tests like nearly all countries outside of US?

Private schools use standardized tests, just not the state tests, since they aren't allowed. The use Iowa Basics, Terra Nova, or some other recognized test.

To think that the private schools, outside of 'gifted' don't have special needs kids is delusional. In many cases the parents purposefully enroll them to avoid labeling and the schools take them because they need the tuition. In some cases it works well for the student, in most cases, it's the wrong choice. There are not the support services needed. Most of the teachers do not have the training or the inclination to help these students. To reiterate the point that should have been caught, both public schools and private schools have taken to 'mainstreaming' or 'inclusion' of special needs students into regular classrooms. Often to the benefit of the special needs child, at the same time to the detriment academically of the other students. While the academic costs are there, the 'regular' students do gain understanding of differences. Whether or not this is the best use of money and resources?

 

[code1211]

I believe this point has already been made previously in this thread, but I might as well express my opinion. I believe that if we want our country to grow in certain areas, then we need to pay teachers like it's an actual profession. I know many educators, including my own mother, who work countless hours at their job to impact kids' lives. She and other colleagues similar to her deserve a pay increase (and I mean a substantial one). If you want education to improve then two things must be accomplished:
1.) An increase in pay
2.) Raising the bar in terms of educational requirements
3.) More funds directed towards education

In Japan, they pay teachers as if they are doctors...

I understand the impact that point number 2 would have if you are speaking of the requirement required of students that are taught be the teachers.

Simply spending more on the process and increasing the wages of those who currently are not performing seems irrelevant to the improvement process.

If you coach a football team with a bad QB, will increasing his income improve his completion percentage? Doubtful.

 

[code1211]

I don't believe most people have a problem with "paying" teachers. Most people have a problem with the high cost of education (and yes there is a difference). Why do we need to pay administrator of school districts and colleges such outrageous sums? Why do we need to put billions into "landscaping"?
When the students are being sent home with "supply lists" that costs over $50 a student, and we are paying more per student than ever before, a lot of us are just saying enough. Soon, the public education system will have priced itself out of work as more people are turning to private, charter and home schooling.
I feel for teachers, I don't think they need "college", I think they need a martial arts courses and authority in the classroom. In many cases, they are only being used as babysitters where teaching comes in at a distant second or third on the priority list. Hats off to the 'real workhorses' of the educational system.

The reason why students are being sent home with expensive supply lists is because of the lack of funding the educational system receives. Do I believe that the funding should be distributed in more responsible/efficient ways? Of course I do. Do I feel that it's a good idea to take away funding because of that reason? No, I don't.

Also, I feel that the 'babysitters' of public schooling are but a tiny minority in comparison to the hard-working educators that make up the majority. But it still needs to be handled nonetheless.

What you feel and believe are interesting, but useless. What counts is whether or not the "children is learning". Right now we KNOW that as a nation, we are seeing diminishing results out of our students and we KNOW that the students are the products of the system.

We KNOW the system is comprised of teachers and administrators and funded by politicians who gain support from unions comprised of the teachers and the administrators and finally, we KNOW that the wages of the teachers and the administrators have been negotiated with the people that the unions buy through contributions.

The ONLY way to judge the effectiveness of the whole system is to measure the quality of the product which is the education retained by the students. In 25 years, the quality of that product has dropped from first to 19th world wide and the system incompetently grinds forward reproducing the failed policies and practices of the past and augmenting its failure.

How do you feel about that? What do you believe might be the cause?

 

[code1211]

How's the weather there in La-La land??

Is there a reason to revert to antagonism?

Teachers should be paid on a merit basis, according to the proficiency of the students in their classes.

I agree with the concept, but I think it's a bit flawed. There will always be "bad" students who are unwilling to learn/participate in class.

If there will always be students who do not want to learn, the system needs to account for them. The system has not. The system is built by and administered by the teachers and the administrators.

All deficiencies can be traced back to either the system or the people and the people constructed and run the system. In other words, if there is a problem, it is not just the fault of, it is the invention of the people.

 

[Rogo]

What you feel and believe are interesting, but useless. What counts is whether or not the "children is learning". Right now we KNOW that as a nation, we are seeing diminishing results out of our students and we KNOW that the students are the products of the system.

We KNOW the system is comprised of teachers and administrators and funded by politicians who gain support from unions comprised of the teachers and the administrators and finally, we KNOW that the wages of the teachers and the administrators have been negotiated with the people that the unions buy through contributions.

The ONLY way to judge the effectiveness of the whole system is to measure the quality of the product which is the education retained by the students. In 25 years, the quality of that product has dropped from first to 19th world wide and the system incompetently grinds forward reproducing the failed policies and practices of the past and augmenting its failure.

How do you feel about that? What do you believe might be the cause?

The reason why we're nineteenth in the world is that other countries progress, too. Look at China and see how much they have accomplished in the last five decades (needless to say though, we need to catch up). As for your claims about unions... I'd like to see some evidence. I see many politicians (especially those right of center) constantly say this and yet I never see any proof to back it up. I'd also be interested in seeing what you would do to improve our educational system.

Oh... sorry that I forgot to add this, but the reason why I use verbs such as "feel" and "believe" is that it is impossible to know anything. The reason this being is that everything in the universe is subjective. So, enable to know something, it must be a fact (which is impossible because everything is subjective). Sorry if this is a bit over-analytical, but I just felt the need to explain why I use those words.

 

[Gadawg73]

Lack of parenting is the problem. Paying teachers more has nothing to do with kids becoming educated.
In Georgia a 20 year teacher that teaches 4 classes a day, works 75% of what a private sector employee works makes right at 90K.
2 weeks off at Christmas. 4 weeks of breaks during the year, Thanksgiving break, fall break, spring break and winter break (mid February) and 6 weeks during the summer (kids get 9 weeks).
Principals get 140K.
Career teachers are well paid. Parents are the problem with education in America, not teachers' salaries.

 

[Rogo]

Lack of parenting is the problem. Paying teachers more has nothing to do with kids becoming educated.
In Georgia a 20 year teacher that teaches 4 classes a day, works 75% of what a private sector employee works makes right at 90K.
2 weeks off at Christmas. 4 weeks of breaks during the year, Thanksgiving break, fall break, spring break and winter break (mid February) and 6 weeks during the summer (kids get 9 weeks).
Principals get 140K.
Career teachers are well paid. Parents are the problem with education in America, not teachers' salaries.

I don't really think you can blame an entire group of people for the ineffectiveness of our educational system. I'm sure that it's a factor in it (we could get into the whole nature vs. nurture debate if you like), but I don't think that's the underlying cause.

 

[code1211]

What you feel and believe are interesting, but useless. What counts is whether or not the "children is learning". Right now we KNOW that as a nation, we are seeing diminishing results out of our students and we KNOW that the students are the products of the system.

We KNOW the system is comprised of teachers and administrators and funded by politicians who gain support from unions comprised of the teachers and the administrators and finally, we KNOW that the wages of the teachers and the administrators have been negotiated with the people that the unions buy through contributions.

The ONLY way to judge the effectiveness of the whole system is to measure the quality of the product which is the education retained by the students. In 25 years, the quality of that product has dropped from first to 19th world wide and the system incompetently grinds forward reproducing the failed policies and practices of the past and augmenting its failure.

How do you feel about that? What do you believe might be the cause?

The reason why we're nineteenth in the world is that other countries progress, too. Look at China and see how much they have accomplished in the last five decades (needless to say though, we need to catch up). As for your claims about unions... I'd like to see some evidence. I see many politicians (especially those right of center) constantly say this and yet I never see any proof to back it up. I'd also be interested in seeing what you would do to improve our educational system.

Oh... sorry that I forgot to add this, but the reason why I use verbs such as "feel" and "believe" is that it is impossible to know anything. The reason this being is that everything in the universe is subjective. So, enable to know something, it must be a fact (which is impossible because everything is subjective). Sorry if this is a bit over-analytical, but I just felt the need to explain why I use those words.

Not everything is subjective. When I was 18 years old, I could run a mile in about 4:30 and three miles in under 15 minutes. That is not subjective. It really, really happened.

Today I could do neither of those things. Again, not subjective. A real hard fact.

Another fact is that our educational system used to produce students who ranked number one in the world on test scores. Now they are 19th. Not subjective. Stack ranking.

Unions and particularly unions comprised of governemnt workers overwhelmingly support Domocrat politicians through contributions. Again, not subjective. Fact.

A good way to measure anything is to determine first what is measurable and how to measure it. Once this is done, you are faced with the problem of doing something to move the needle. For 25 years, our educational system has moved the needle down.

Instead of talking about the unfair wages which have been rising, why not talk about the unfair results which have been dropping. Both of these, again, not subjective. Facts.

 

[Rogo]

Not everything is subjective. When I was 18 years old, I could run a mile in about 4:30 and three miles in under 15 minutes. That is not subjective. It really, really happened.

Today I could do neither of those things. Again, not subjective. A real hard fact.

Another fact is that our educational system used to produce students who ranked number one in the world on test scores. Now they are 19th. Not subjective. Stack ranking.

Unions and particularly unions comprised of governemnt workers overwhelmingly support Domocrat politicians through contributions. Again, not subjective. Fact.

A good way to measure anything is to determine first what is measurable and how to measure it. Once this is done, you are faced with the problem of doing something to move the needle. For 25 years, our educational system has moved the needle down.

Instead of talking about the unfair wages which have been rising, why not talk about the unfair results which have been dropping. Both of these, again, not subjective. Facts.

Actually, everything is subjective because enable for something to be true it must be held as true by everyone in the world. Enable for something to exist, then someone must acknowledge its existence (perception = existence). While it may exist to that single person, it may not to everyone else (because for something that is considered true to single person is a form of opinion which ties into the concept of subjectivity). The idea that we have gravity is not true either because gravity did not exist before time and space was created (not to mention mankind didn't really define what gravity is until Isaac Newton did). Even that statement I just made is subjective because that is what I believe (while others may not/do not know about it).

Another explanation is that enable for something to be true it must be permanent and since nothing is permanent then nothing is true. Give me an atheist and a theist. One believes in a god, while the other does not. Are they both right? No because it is their opinion (of course, this is a more obvious example).

Everything I just said up there is subjective. This is nothing but a simple Taoist principle...

Oh, and the reason why wages are rising (which I trouble believing because I have educators in my family who have been in a pay freeze for about six years) is because the value of that the worldwide economy is always growing. Just because their wages are rising, doesn't mean it makes a huge difference. I can tell you. I have a close friend who's a single mother of two who is currently teaching English at a high school and she can barely support her children. She tutors, teaches at Sylvan, etc. It's still not enough.

Also, the concept is simple... if you raise requirements and increase pay then you will attract better, more qualified educators.

 

[Flopper]

That's an interesting idea and is based on absolutely nothing.

Right now the highest paid teachers in the industrialized world are teaching in the Public Schools in the USA.

Those teachers are producing a product, test scores achieved by their students of the 12th grade, that rank 19th in the industrialized world right behind the Czech Republic.

Our teachers already are the highest paid on the planet and their work is substandard.

Our private school teachers are paid less and produce a higher quality product.

Since paying higher wages has not helped to produce higher test scores, what do you propose the amount of increase to be to produce higher scores?

In the Czech Republic, the teachers are paid about 1/5 the wage of teachers in the USA and produce better results.

No, we don't have the highest paid teachers in the world.
South Korea
Germany
Netherlands
Hong Kong
England
Australia
Finland
Singapore
Belgium
All pay more than the US.
Compared to other countries, U.S. flunks in teacher pay

Comparing test scores between the Czech Republic and the US is like comparing apples and oranges. In the Czech Republic and a number of other countries, after graduating from elementary schools, students must pass an entrance exam before they are allowed to enter high school. Students that don't pass and there are many, enter vocational schools. To make the comparison even more ridiculous, the students in these countries don't take the same test.
Czech Republic - Educational System

I don't know how you compare private and public school achievement because private schools do not use the same tests as public schools.

Private schools can pick and choose their students where public schools must accept all students. They don't have the huge financial burden of educating special ed. kids, second language kids, problem kids, or any kids that will be a financial burden to the school. They leave this to the public schools so of course they are going to have lower costs per pupil.

As for comparing US with the states you do regarding salaries, you have to level the playing field. Which kids to educate in a prep for college environment. All? The top 1/2? The top 1/4? By report cards? By tests like nearly all countries outside of US?

Private schools use standardized tests, just not the state tests, since they aren't allowed. The use Iowa Basics, Terra Nova, or some other recognized test.

To think that the private schools, outside of 'gifted' don't have special needs kids is delusional. In many cases the parents purposefully enroll them to avoid labeling and the schools take them because they need the tuition. In some cases it works well for the student, in most cases, it's the wrong choice. There are not the support services needed. Most of the teachers do not have the training or the inclination to help these students. To reiterate the point that should have been caught, both public schools and private schools have taken to 'mainstreaming' or 'inclusion' of special needs students into regular classrooms. Often to the benefit of the special needs child, at the same time to the detriment academically of the other students. While the academic costs are there, the 'regular' students do gain understanding of differences. Whether or not this is the best use of money and resources?

Regardless of the reason, if students do not tale the same tests, scores are not comparable. Test professional often attempt to equate the various tests, but unless the goal of test created is to insure compatibly, comparisons are not accurate.

In districts which I am familiar, Special Ed. in Private Schools is provide primarily through the public school district. Remember, Special Ed. is not just for students with learning disability. It can include homebound students, and students with severe physical mental disabilities. These services can be very costly. Yes, there is a lot mainstreaming but invariably, the teacher will work with the special ed. teacher and usually the special ed teacher will work with the student once a week. Many private schools aim for the stars, the best students in academics, sports, and the arts, leaving the remainder to public schools.

 

[Annie]

No, we don't have the highest paid teachers in the world.
South Korea
Germany
Netherlands
Hong Kong
England
Australia
Finland
Singapore
Belgium
All pay more than the US.
Compared to other countries, U.S. flunks in teacher pay

Comparing test scores between the Czech Republic and the US is like comparing apples and oranges. In the Czech Republic and a number of other countries, after graduating from elementary schools, students must pass an entrance exam before they are allowed to enter high school. Students that don't pass and there are many, enter vocational schools. To make the comparison even more ridiculous, the students in these countries don't take the same test.
Czech Republic - Educational System

I don't know how you compare private and public school achievement because private schools do not use the same tests as public schools.

Private schools can pick and choose their students where public schools must accept all students. They don't have the huge financial burden of educating special ed. kids, second language kids, problem kids, or any kids that will be a financial burden to the school. They leave this to the public schools so of course they are going to have lower costs per pupil.

As for comparing US with the states you do regarding salaries, you have to level the playing field. Which kids to educate in a prep for college environment. All? The top 1/2? The top 1/4? By report cards? By tests like nearly all countries outside of US?

Private schools use standardized tests, just not the state tests, since they aren't allowed. The use Iowa Basics, Terra Nova, or some other recognized test.

To think that the private schools, outside of 'gifted' don't have special needs kids is delusional. In many cases the parents purposefully enroll them to avoid labeling and the schools take them because they need the tuition. In some cases it works well for the student, in most cases, it's the wrong choice. There are not the support services needed. Most of the teachers do not have the training or the inclination to help these students. To reiterate the point that should have been caught, both public schools and private schools have taken to 'mainstreaming' or 'inclusion' of special needs students into regular classrooms. Often to the benefit of the special needs child, at the same time to the detriment academically of the other students. While the academic costs are there, the 'regular' students do gain understanding of differences. Whether or not this is the best use of money and resources?

Regardless of the reason, if students do not tale the same tests, scores are not comparable. Test professional often attempt to equate the various tests, but unless the goal of test created is to insure compatibly, comparisons are not accurate.

In districts which I am familiar, Special Ed. in Private Schools is provide primarily through the public school district. Remember, Special Ed. is not just for students with learning disability. It can include homebound students, and students with severe physical mental disabilities. These services can be very costly. Yes, there is a lot mainstreaming but invariably, the teacher will work with the special ed. teacher and usually the special ed teacher will work with the student once a week. Many private schools aim for the stars, the best students in academics, sports, and the arts, leaving the remainder to public schools.

I doubt very much that you've dealt with attempting to get services provided from public schools either from private schools or homeschooling. For the past 8 years it's been close to impossible to get them to agree to testing until March, by then they've run out of budgeting and try to get the case carried over into the next school year. Call in the fall and they respond with, after we finish testing here, we'll call back. It takes the parents to threaten lawsuits and guess what? These are often the same folks who pulled their kids out of public schools because they didn't want the child tested in the first place.

You do not have an inkling of the system.

Homeschooling parents have a very difficult time just getting the appropriate texts even though the school must provide them or provide the ability to get them through publishers.

BTW, standardized tests are interchangeable. Each state has their own version of 'state tests' based upon certain criteria. Iowa Basics and Terra Nova have both been providing the same, for more years than any state tests.

 

[Flopper]

As for comparing US with the states you do regarding salaries, you have to level the playing field. Which kids to educate in a prep for college environment. All? The top 1/2? The top 1/4? By report cards? By tests like nearly all countries outside of US?

Private schools use standardized tests, just not the state tests, since they aren't allowed. The use Iowa Basics, Terra Nova, or some other recognized test.

To think that the private schools, outside of 'gifted' don't have special needs kids is delusional. In many cases the parents purposefully enroll them to avoid labeling and the schools take them because they need the tuition. In some cases it works well for the student, in most cases, it's the wrong choice. There are not the support services needed. Most of the teachers do not have the training or the inclination to help these students. To reiterate the point that should have been caught, both public schools and private schools have taken to 'mainstreaming' or 'inclusion' of special needs students into regular classrooms. Often to the benefit of the special needs child, at the same time to the detriment academically of the other students. While the academic costs are there, the 'regular' students do gain understanding of differences. Whether or not this is the best use of money and resources?

Regardless of the reason, if students do not tale the same tests, scores are not comparable. Test professional often attempt to equate the various tests, but unless the goal of test created is to insure compatibly, comparisons are not accurate.

In districts which I am familiar, Special Ed. in Private Schools is provide primarily through the public school district. Remember, Special Ed. is not just for students with learning disability. It can include homebound students, and students with severe physical mental disabilities. These services can be very costly. Yes, there is a lot mainstreaming but invariably, the teacher will work with the special ed. teacher and usually the special ed teacher will work with the student once a week. Many private schools aim for the stars, the best students in academics, sports, and the arts, leaving the remainder to public schools.

I doubt very much that you've dealt with attempting to get services provided from public schools either from private schools or homeschooling. For the past 8 years it's been close to impossible to get them to agree to testing until March, by then they've run out of budgeting and try to get the case carried over into the next school year. Call in the fall and they respond with, after we finish testing here, we'll call back. It takes the parents to threaten lawsuits and guess what? These are often the same folks who pulled their kids out of public schools because they didn't want the child tested in the first place.

You do not have an inkling of the system.

Homeschooling parents have a very difficult time just getting the appropriate texts even though the school must provide them or provide the ability to get them through publishers.

BTW, standardized tests are interchangeable. Each state has their own version of 'state tests' based upon certain criteria. Iowa Basics and Terra Nova have both been providing the same, for more years than any state tests.

You use the word system as if there were one system. There are as many systems as there are districts and services can vary tremendously from district to district. In the district I worked in, I doubt you would have the problems you experienced. The reason is our superintendent and board were commitment to partnering with private schools, homeschoolers, and the community to provide quality education to all students in the district.

Sorry about your bad experience.

 

[Samson]

Homeschooling parents have a very difficult time just getting the appropriate texts even though the school must provide them or provide the ability to get them through publishers..

I did not know that.

But I am curious about the growth of homeschooling through the use of the internet, the growth of its popularity, and how it would save states' budgets.

In Colorado, because of the many remote Mountain communities, Internet Schooling seems to be more popular than in most metropolitan areas. But there's no reason it COULD NOT be more greatly utilized......RIGHT?

Unless parents are using public schools as free baby sitting services.


Of course we know, they'd never do that.

 

[Annie]

Regardless of the reason, if students do not tale the same tests, scores are not comparable. Test professional often attempt to equate the various tests, but unless the goal of test created is to insure compatibly, comparisons are not accurate.

In districts which I am familiar, Special Ed. in Private Schools is provide primarily through the public school district. Remember, Special Ed. is not just for students with learning disability. It can include homebound students, and students with severe physical mental disabilities. These services can be very costly. Yes, there is a lot mainstreaming but invariably, the teacher will work with the special ed. teacher and usually the special ed teacher will work with the student once a week. Many private schools aim for the stars, the best students in academics, sports, and the arts, leaving the remainder to public schools.

I doubt very much that you've dealt with attempting to get services provided from public schools either from private schools or homeschooling. For the past 8 years it's been close to impossible to get them to agree to testing until March, by then they've run out of budgeting and try to get the case carried over into the next school year. Call in the fall and they respond with, after we finish testing here, we'll call back. It takes the parents to threaten lawsuits and guess what? These are often the same folks who pulled their kids out of public schools because they didn't want the child tested in the first place.

You do not have an inkling of the system.

Homeschooling parents have a very difficult time just getting the appropriate texts even though the school must provide them or provide the ability to get them through publishers.

BTW, standardized tests are interchangeable. Each state has their own version of 'state tests' based upon certain criteria. Iowa Basics and Terra Nova have both been providing the same, for more years than any state tests.

You use the word system as if there were one system. There are as many systems as there are districts and services can vary tremendously from district to district. In the district I worked in, I doubt you would have the problems you experienced. The reason is our superintendent and board were commitment to partnering with private schools, homeschoolers, and the community to provide quality education to all students in the district.

Sorry about your bad experience.

You were the one that started speaking in generalities. You were the one that spoke about 1 test for public and standardized testing in other schools not being of the same standards. Ha, my guess would be that in creationist leaning states, their 'standardized' tests by the state are not quite that. You won't see that problem with independent tests such as Pearson, (Terra Nova) or Iowa Basics.

You 'doubt' regarding your 'system'? LOL! What would you expect the superintendent to say regarding 'best for all', since the requirements are law? As I said, you've not an inkling.

 

[Gadawg73]

Lack of parenting is the problem. Paying teachers more has nothing to do with kids becoming educated.
In Georgia a 20 year teacher that teaches 4 classes a day, works 75% of what a private sector employee works makes right at 90K.
2 weeks off at Christmas. 4 weeks of breaks during the year, Thanksgiving break, fall break, spring break and winter break (mid February) and 6 weeks during the summer (kids get 9 weeks).
Principals get 140K.
Career teachers are well paid. Parents are the problem with education in America, not teachers' salaries.

I don't really think you can blame an entire group of people for the ineffectiveness of our educational system. I'm sure that it's a factor in it (we could get into the whole nature vs. nurture debate if you like), but I don't think that's the underlying cause.

Parents are responsible for making sure their kids are well educated.
It is not the responsibility of government.
Problem with Americans these days is they want government to give them what they "need" such as health care, education, job protection and retirement.
All the while they want to be free to spend their wad on what they want, not what they really need.
I have 3 kids, all went to public schools, 2 graduated from university and a senior in high school.

 

[Rogo]

Parents are responsible for making sure their kids are well educated.
It is not the responsibility of government.
Problem with Americans these days is they want government to give them what they "need" such as health care, education, job protection and retirement.
All the while they want to be free to spend their wad on what they want, not what they really need.
I have 3 kids, all went to public schools, 2 graduated from university and a senior in high school.

I think that parents certainly play a role in children's education as far as paying their taxes, making sure their kids get to school, and making sure they study/do their homework. But if a child attends a public school then the government (primarily the state government) does have a responsibility for students during the time they are at school (8:00 AM - 3:00 PM or close to that) as well as the school itself (which is funded by the government).

 

[Flopper]

Homeschooling parents have a very difficult time just getting the appropriate texts even though the school must provide them or provide the ability to get them through publishers..

I did not know that.

But I am curious about the growth of homeschooling through the use of the internet, the growth of its popularity, and how it would save states' budgets.

In Colorado, because of the many remote Mountain communities, Internet Schooling seems to be more popular than in most metropolitan areas. But there's no reason it COULD NOT be more greatly utilized......RIGHT?

Unless parents are using public schools as free baby sitting services.


Of course we know, they'd never do that.

Home schooling grew from the USDE’s estimated .85 million K-12 students in 1999 to their estimated 1.51 million in 2007. This represents about 1 or 2% of the public and private school enrollment. As far as the Internet, it looks like most Internet services provide supplemental material for the home schoolteacher. I’m not sure if anyone offers a virtual classroom environment.

I saw an interesting statistic in the document below as to why parents home school. I assumed the main reason to home school was dissatisfaction with academic instruction. Actually only 21% of the parents gave this as a reason. The major factors were to provide religious or moral instruction (36 percent of parents) and concern about the school environment (21%)
Homeschooling Approaches - Internet Homeschooling - Homeschool.com - The #1 Homeschooling Community
National Home Education Research Institute - U.S. Homeschool Population Size and Growth: Comments

My older daughter home schooled her seven year old thru the 2nd and 3rd grade. She was an elementary school teacher for 7 years so I don’t think she found it that difficult. I think someone who has not been involved in academic education of young children would probably find home schooling challenging. Aside from the time factor required, there are a lot of considerations. First off, what and how you were taught 25 or 30 years ago has changed a lot. Also, being a good parent is not synonymous with being a good teacher. A support group of other parents that home school and good support from the district are very important.

In my daughter’s case, she contacted the local school district and found they had a coordinator who helped parents and private schools with the use of district services such as testing, and curriculum. She was able to join a local group of parents that home schooled. They shared materials and teaching duties. Without this group, I don’t she would have lasted 2 years. After 2 years she moved into another district and entered my granddaughter in a wonderful elementary school and that was the end of the home schooling.

I think home schooling could be used a lot more if the parents have the time, dedication, and the right home environment. I would think home schooling several kids at different grade levels would be pretty hard.

 

[Samson]

Homeschooling parents have a very difficult time just getting the appropriate texts even though the school must provide them or provide the ability to get them through publishers..

I did not know that.

But I am curious about the growth of homeschooling through the use of the internet, the growth of its popularity, and how it would save states' budgets.

In Colorado, because of the many remote Mountain communities, Internet Schooling seems to be more popular than in most metropolitan areas. But there's no reason it COULD NOT be more greatly utilized......RIGHT?

Unless parents are using public schools as free baby sitting services.


Of course we know, they'd never do that.

I think home schooling could be used a lot more if the parents have the time, dedication, and the right home environment. I would think home schooling several kids at different grade levels would be pretty hard.

So, then you believe parents do not have the time, dedication, and the right home environment.....perhaps this is the problem, since this is where kids spend most of their time.

Anyway, here's some MYTHBUSTERS:

Myths and Facts About Online Schools| Colorado Virtual Academy

MYTH: Students who attend online schools lack socialization and social skills.
FACT: Students at the Colorado Virtual Academy have the opportunity to participate in many academic and social outings. These outings and activities may include trips to museums, skate parks, zoos, clubs, student government, dances, and even graduation ceremonies.

MYTH : You’ll spend all day staring at a computer.
FACT: While attendance, planning, and assessment are all recorded online, only about 30 percent of the K-8 lessons are taught online, with the percentage higher for high school as students work at more of a collective pace online in conjunction with the teacher. The rest of the K¹² curriculum relies on printed and/or hands-on materials, including beautifully crafted textbooks, paint, rocks, and telescopes.



MYTH : Attending the Colorado Virtual Academy is a part-time job.
FACT: Students will need to spend about four to six hours on schoolwork each day, depending on grade level.

MYTH : Online schools don’t meet the curriculum requirements for public schools.
FACT: The Colorado Virtual Academy is a public school that happens to operate outside of a traditional classroom. As public school students, your children will be expected to spend a certain amount of time each day engaged in schoolwork. They will also be required to take standardized tests mandated by the state of Colorado. COVA students also have district-approved graduation requirements, aligned to meet state university admission standards. The K¹² curriculum was developed by experts to meet or exceed Colorado Academic Standards, and has proven to be one of the top-scoring online school curriculum programs in the nation