Not All Conservatives Thrilled About Romney VP Pick

[8537]

Why do you say that? Why would the healthiest move to private? The premium of a senior is the premium of a senior. They all have health issues and the premius will be high to compensate. It will move the WEALTHIEST out of the system...not the healthiest.

Because it happens in segregated insurance markets all the time. The "premium of a senior" is not same. Private insurers will take the healthiest ones, offer a lower rate to them.

The less healthy ones won't be able to afford actuarially sound rates from a private insurer so they will move to the public program.

Why would it bankrupt medicare? I see it as a way to curb the expenses of medicare.

The risk pool for Medicare will go from "those 65+ plus those with end stage renal disease" to "those 65+ that are risked out of the private pool plus those with end stage renal disease.".

Why do you refer to it as a far right privatization? I see it as avoiding a far left idea of a single payer system. A debate is what takes a right leaningt plan and makes it a more moderate plan.

Because that's what it is. Moving Medicare into a voucher program is a product of the right.

We have been doing that for years.....and sadly, we always have the "bankruptcy thing" hanging over us

Then lets discuss ways to make it solvent. The problem is somewhere in the range of 1% of GDP.

 

[Katzndogz]

Democrats as well as republicans recognized that medicare as it is cannot be sustained. Therefore medicare will end, period. The only discussion left is how it will end.

 

[uscitizen]

This whole thing is just a way to route more tax dollars to the insurance industry.
the portion of medicare already privatized with "vouchers" costs 14% more than traditional medicare.
The "vouchers" just do not pass thru the private citizens hand but from the govt straight to the insurance industry.

So more of the same is going to cost less???

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most seniors I've ever talked to on the subject, starting with my mother, like Medicare.

What do they complain about though, if anything? The high cost of the supplemental PRIVATE insurance they have to buy to cover what Medicare doesn't.

The Ryan plan would essentially make the supplemental part the whole part. Get rid of the good, replace it with more of the bad.

I agree...seniors are not complaining about medicare.

Quality of care is notht he issue....the issue is that it is not staying solvent...so something needs to be done.

Quick frixes are not the answer.....reform is the answer.

Social Security was fixed in 1983, when it was in worse shape than Medicare is currently. Social Security is now solvent until 2037. That was about a 50 year 'fix'.

It was not privatized; it was not ended; it was not given over to the radicals to pillage.

The radicals like Paul Ryan ought not be allowed to get control of Medicare.

 

[Inthemiddle]

If Romney's campaign is such a disaster why are the Governor and the President in a dead heat in the majority of polls?

The same reason Kerry's campaign was a disaster, even though the election was one of the closest in history.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What part of "those 55 and older will not be affected" did ewe not understand asswipe?

What part of eventually everyone currently over 55 will be DEAD, don't you understand?

And the fucking Medicare plan -- which is far too massively expensive and unsustainable -- must nevertheless live on for that day in the distant future when current youngsters will be over 55 and saddled with the incredibly high costs of that moronic plan? I bet you everyone of them will curse assholes like you who failed to do anything to fix it.

Are you as stupid as your posts suggest or are you just whacked out on Heroin?

The rising cost of healthcare won't suddenly stop just because you end Medicare. The incredibly high costs you refer to will still be there;

the only difference will be that seniors will have to cough up more out of pocket and if they don't have it, they'll go without.

The free market then becomes the death panel.

 

[007]

Paul "Ayn Rand" Ryan will serve a very useful purpose - to remind voters of the GOP WAR on the following:

Poor

Middle Class

Women

Obama​

 

[NYcarbineer]

If Romney's campaign is such a disaster why are the Governor and the President in a dead heat in the majority of polls?

The same reason Kerry's campaign was a disaster, even though the election was one of the closest in history.

The president is not in a dead heat in most of the polls.

 

[hortysir]

Please tell me how it is throwing granny down the stairs. You said it now back it up.
Show me what you DONT know.
I am waiting.

Moving seniors from the public sector to private sector insurance..is throwing granny down the stairs..period.

No private insurance company in it's right mind will take on seniors.

This was the problem with health care prior to medicare. Which is why we have medicare.

Social programs didn't come to exist because somebody said "Wow..lets figure out a way to add cost to the government". They came about to address social issues.

I'm surprised you didn't see the "proof of concept" with the Ryan plan in Arizona...when Jan Brewer killed 2 Americans, by withholding funding on their operations.

There were no Republicans rushing to save those people. You know..like with Schiavo..they let them die.

That's the Ryan plan.

that's the truth about how and why medicare was formed, insurance companies refused to cover the elderly.

Like the ACA does?


Hospital Value Based Purchasing Program (Section 3001)

In FY 2014, outcome and efficiency measures will be included. All efficiency measures will be risk-adjusted for factors such as age, sex, race, severity of illness and other factors the Secretary deems appropriate.
https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/medic...ospital_quality_provisions_under_the_aca.html

 

[Inthemiddle]

I'm sure you can link us to that statement...

Better to let deadline pass

Willing to cause "serious disruptions" in order to not raise debt ceiling

 

[Dr.House]

I'm sure you can link us to that statement...

Better to let deadline pass

Willing to cause "serious disruptions" in order to not raise debt ceiling

Swing and a miss...

Neither link supports this statement:

they said repeatedly that they were willing to let us default to get their way

 

[candycorn]

If Romney's campaign is such a disaster why are the Governor and the President in a dead heat in the majority of polls?

The same reason Kerry's campaign was a disaster, even though the election was one of the closest in history.

The president is not in a dead heat in most of the polls.

He actually has an electoral college lock at this point.

As for people not liking Ryan as VP; they really do not like the Governor as President if the recent past is any indication:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...governor-doesnt-need-enemies.html#post5795590

 

[The Rabbi]

The same reason Kerry's campaign was a disaster, even though the election was one of the closest in history.

The president is not in a dead heat in most of the polls.

He actually has an electoral college lock at this point.

As for people not liking Ryan as VP; they really do not like the Governor as President if the recent past is any indication:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...governor-doesnt-need-enemies.html#post5795590

He only has an Electoral College lock if you count votes the way Democrats counted them in FL in 2000 to make Gore win.

 

[Wolfsister77]

There’s only one president that I know of in history that robbed Medicare, $716 billion to pay for a new risky program of his own that we call Obamacare.

What Paul Ryan and I have talked about is saving Medicare, is providing people greater choice in Medicare, making sure it’s there for current seniors. No changes, by the way, for current seniors, or those nearing retirement. But looking for young people down the road and saying, “We’re going to give you a bigger choice.” In America, the nature of this country has been giving people more freedom, more choices. That’s how we make Medicare work down the road.

Ryan's plan also calls for the same cuts as Obama's.

Those 55 and under will be part of a voucher system and be expected to shop around for a plan under private insurance and the money they get will not be enough to cover them.

 

[Wolfsister77]

By Ian Millhiser

In April of 2011, after Republican Vice Presidential nominee Paul Ryan had been House Budget Chair for only a few months, he convinced nearly the entire House GOP caucus to vote for a laissez-faire budget resolution that would slash education, raise taxes on the middle class, and destroy Medicaid’s promise to provide health care to the most vulnerable Americans. Like his running mate Mitt Romney’s tax plan, the Ryan Plan also combined austerity for the poor and the middle class with large tax cuts for the rich.

The Ryan Plan that passed the House in 2011 is most famous, however, for its multiple step plan to phase out Medicare. Let us say that again so we are perfectly clear about what the Ryan Plan does to Medicare. It does not just “end Medicare as we know it” and it certainly does not “reform” Medicare.” The Ryan Plan simply ends Medicare, although it admittedly takes some time for it to achieve this goal.

More w/Chart (worth reading): Paul Ryan's Original Medicare Plan Ends Medicare, Period | ThinkProgress

No it doesn't end Medicare--those under than 55 years old can still opt for Medicare. The only difference is they can make choices as to which health care policy they want.

STOP WITH THE LIES

They will be asked to shop for a private insurance plan and will not get enough money to cover it.

 

[The Rabbi]

More w/Chart (worth reading): Paul Ryan's Original Medicare Plan Ends Medicare, Period | ThinkProgress

No it doesn't end Medicare--those under than 55 years old can still opt for Medicare. The only difference is they can make choices as to which health care policy they want.

STOP WITH THE LIES

They will be asked to shop for a private insurance plan and will not get enough money to cover it.

You know it wont be enough, how? Your ventriloquist told you?

 

[Conservative]

Its not as bad as the Palin pick but it sure wont help win him the election

I'll bet my account here against yours, that Romney/Ryan win in November.

Straight up bet. Win or lose.

Romney/Ryan win, you're banned for life... IP ban... no posting here again EVER.

Obama/Biden win, I am banned for life... IP ban... no posting here again EVER.


You got the balls???

 

[Wolfsister77]

No it doesn't end Medicare--those under than 55 years old can still opt for Medicare. The only difference is they can make choices as to which health care policy they want.

STOP WITH THE LIES

They will be asked to shop for a private insurance plan and will not get enough money to cover it.

You know it wont be enough, how? Your ventriloquist told you?

The payment would be indexed to account for inflation, and that could be a problem if health care costs race ahead of the inflation rate. Any extra cost has to be paid out of pocket and many would not be able to afford it and they'd go without.

 

[peach174]

More w/Chart (worth reading): Paul Ryan's Original Medicare Plan Ends Medicare, Period | ThinkProgress

No it doesn't end Medicare--those under than 55 years old can still opt for Medicare. The only difference is they can make choices as to which health care policy they want.

STOP WITH THE LIES

They will be asked to shop for a private insurance plan and will not get enough money to cover it.

This is the cost of private insurance on average;

On average, the annual premium was $2,985 for a single person and $6,328 for a family.
The annual premium differed from state to state. For example, the premium for a family health plan in New York was $13,296, while a similar plan in Iowa was $5609.
The annual premiums for health plans were also different depending if the annual deductible was high or low. For example, family plans with no deductible had an average premium of $12686 each year, while plans with an annual deductible of $10,000 had an average premium of $5380 each year.


The average cost for seniors who are married is around 8,000.00 to 10,000.00 This is for Medicare plus one other insurance, like blue cross blue shield.
They would receive a voucher for 14,000.00 (7,000.00 each person) for a Medicare or private insurance.
Fourteen thousand for Seniors would more than cover either one of their choices.
Seven thousand for a widow or widower would more than cover their costs.

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, so you dont know that the voucher will be insufficient. You just think it might IF certain things happen.
Thanks for clarifying.

I KNOW the present system is unsustainable and costs are burgeoning. I KNOW Obamacare will make things worse and remove the dynamism, creativity, and good delivery we have now.
Repeal Obamacare now.