Partial Rapture?

[ninja007]

Question: "Will there be a partial rapture?"

Answer: There are some believers who hold that only faithful Christians will be taken in the rapture, with unfaithful Christians left on earth to suffer through the tribulation. The problem is that the Bible does not support such a concept. The passages which describe the rapture (1 Corinthians 15:50-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) definitely seem to apply universally to all Christians, mature and immature, faithful and disobedient. Verses like Romans 8:1 and 1 Thessalonians 5:9 tell us that God does not pour out His wrath on Christians. There is no biblical evidence whatsoever for a partial rapture. Every believer will be taken to heaven in the rapture.

Jesus’ parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25:1-13 has been for some the “proof” of a partial rapture. However, the five virgins whose lamps did not have any oil are not symbolic of believers being left behind; rather, it is describing unbelievers being left behind. The key is verse 12 where Jesus says to those left behind, “Truly I say to you, I do not know you.” Those whom Jesus knows are believers in Him, whether vigilant or not. The essential element in the parable is the oil in the lamps, oil being symbolic of the Holy Spirit. Those who have the Holy Spirit living in their hearts will be taken in the rapture because they are truly Christians. Those who profess faith in Christ, but who do not possess His Spirit, will be left behind.

The lesson for us is to be ready because Christ is coming again for His own, but He will come as a “thief in the night” (1 Thessalonians 5:4)—suddenly, unexpectedly and unannounced. Only those whose lamps (hearts) contain the oil (the Holy Spirit) will be taken. The rest, regardless of their professions, will be left behind. Jesus knows His own, and when He calls us, we will respond. To the rest He will say, “I never knew you.” Today is the day of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2), and if there are any who do not know the Savior, they dare not delay another moment.

Read more: Will there be a partial rapture

 

[ninja007]

Conclusion
Opposition to the partial rapture view in addition to refutation of their interpretation of key Scriptures is based upon three broad principles: First, the partial repture view is based upon a works principle in opposition to Scriptural teaching on grace. The translation and resurrection of the church is a part of its salvation provided by grace and is a reward only in the sense that it is a fruit of faith in Christ. To accept a works principle for this important aspect of salvation is to undermine the whole concept of justification by faith through grace, the presence of the Holy Spirit as the seal of God “unto the day of redemption” (Eph 4:30), and the entire tremendous undertaking of God on behalf of those who trust Him. The issue of reward is properly settled at the judgment seat of Christ, not before in a partial translation resulting in the infliction of the tribulation on other believers.

Second, the partial rapture view divides the body of Christ. While the Scriptures portray difference in God’s dealing with saints of the Old Testament as compared with saints of the present age, and also a difference between the church and tribulation saints, there is no Scriptural justification for dividing the divine unity of the body of Christ joined in organic union with Christ and all fellow,believers. A division such as partial rapturists teach is unthinkable in view of the doctrine of the one body.

The third objection to the partial rapturist position is the fact that they ignore plain teaching concerning the translation of all true believers when the event takes place. Attention was called earlier to the “we all” of 1 Corinthians 15:51 and the expression “the dead in Christ” in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The identity of those translated is described as those who “believe that Jesus died and rose again” (1 Thess 4:14). Confirming Scriptures are found elsewhere as well (1 Thess 1:9-10; 2:19 ; 5:4-11 ; Rev 22:12). The partial rapture view has been embraced by only a small fragment of evangelical Christians and has not been recognized by any evangelical Protestant group. It is an interpretation limited to a few and cannot be regarded as within the bounds of normal Biblical premillennialism.

Dallas, Texas

(To be continued in the October-December Number, 1955)

This article was taken from the Theological Journal Library CD and posted with permission of Galaxie Software.

 

[ninja007]

General Reasons for Rejecting a Partial Rapture
It is commonly held by evangelical Christians that salvation is by grace rather than a reward for good works. The believer in Christ is justified by faith, and receives the many benefits of salvation quite apart from merit or worthiness on his part. This is normally carried over into the doctrine of translation and resurrection. Most pretribulationists as well as most posttribulationists consider the translation and ressurrection of the saints on this basis. By contrast, the partial rapture teaching transfers both resurrection and translation from a work of grace to a work of reward for faithfulness. In so contending, they wrest principal Scriptures and misapply others. Opposition to the partial rapture point of view springs not only from particular texts but from the broad doctrine of the nature of salvation itself. It becomes therefore more than an argument about prophecy. It has its roots deep in the general theological perspective of the respective parties.


Premillennialism and the Tribulation Part V Partial Rapture Theory Bible.org

 

[DriftingSand]

Christ will return once and gather up all Christians. By definition, a Christian is someone who has faith in Christ. They who lack faith in Christ are not Christians. So the question becomes: When will Christ return? Before, during, or after a Great Tribulation?

Here's one description of Christ's return:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
"16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Note: When Christ returns, the "dead in Christ shall rise first."

The Bible tells us when the "dead in Christ shall rise first":

John 6:40,
"40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44,
"44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54,
"54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

The dead shall be raised on "the last day." Very important! When is "the last day?"

The "last day" coincides with the "last" or "final" or "seventh" Trump of God:

1 Corinthians 15:52,
"52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

When is "the last trump?" After the previous 6 trumps. Here's the Bible's description of the 7 trumps of God. Christ returns when the 7th trump is sounded. The previous 6 trumps announce various phases of the Great Tribulation:

Revelation 8:2, "2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Revelation 8:7, "7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, ..."
Revelation 8:8, "8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"
Revelation 8:10, " 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp ..."
Revelation 8:12, " 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, ..."
Revelation 9:1, "1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."
Revelation 9:13, "13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"
Revelation 11:15, "15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

So, in summary, there have been faithful Christians throughout history. The vast majority have died and their bodies are in a grave. A Great Tribulation is to come. At the "last day" at the sound of the "final trump" Christ will return and "the dead in Christ" shall be raised. This great day doesn't occur until AFTER the previous 6 trumps of God which announce various phases of the Great Tribulation.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Partial rapture now? Tired of centuries of disappointment now it's a partial rapture? What's that then? God pulls people up halfway then lets them go, "Haha fooled you!" Splat.

 

[the_human_being]

Among those participating in the first resurrection (resurrection of the saints following the Tribulation) will be: (1) those accounted for righteousness from Adam to Pentecost, those who have been and will be born again by the Holy Spirit from Pentecost until the return of our Lord, and (3) those who were beheaded and slain during the Tribulation because they would not take the mark of the Beast nor bow to his image.

Those humans who will be alive through the millennial reign of Christ upon the earth will be those humans who were not saved by the Holy Spirit yet they refused to take the mark of the Beast or to bow to his image. These will live on the earth with Satan locked away for 1,000 years. They will live long lives and produce children.

 

[AlfredoSauce]

Hmm... Jesus said he'd be back during the lifetimes of those still present around him then. Oops. Missed it by about 2,000 years so far.

 

[ninja007]

Christ will return once and gather up all Christians. By definition, a Christian is someone who has faith in Christ. They who lack faith in Christ are not Christians. So the question becomes: When will Christ return? Before, during, or after a Great Tribulation?

Here's one description of Christ's return:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
"16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Note: When Christ returns, the "dead in Christ shall rise first."

The Bible tells us when the "dead in Christ shall rise first":

John 6:40,
"40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44,
"44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54,
"54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

The dead shall be raised on "the last day." Very important! When is "the last day?"

The "last day" coincides with the "last" or "final" or "seventh" Trump of God:

1 Corinthians 15:52,
"52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

When is "the last trump?" After the previous 6 trumps. Here's the Bible's description of the 7 trumps of God. Christ returns when the 7th trump is sounded. The previous 6 trumps announce various phases of the Great Tribulation:

Revelation 8:2, "2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Revelation 8:7, "7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, ..."
Revelation 8:8, "8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"
Revelation 8:10, " 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp ..."
Revelation 8:12, " 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, ..."
Revelation 9:1, "1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."
Revelation 9:13, "13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"
Revelation 11:15, "15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

So, in summary, there have been faithful Christians throughout history. The vast majority have died and their bodies are in a grave. A Great Tribulation is to come. At the "last day" at the sound of the "final trump" Christ will return and "the dead in Christ" shall be raised. This great day doesn't occur until AFTER the previous 6 trumps of God which announce various phases of the Great Tribulation.

disagree DS. The Church is Jesus' Bride. Jesus doesn't punish His Bride. Only unbelievers and Israel will be punished for 7 years. The Lord RETURNS WITH HIS CHURCH to the Mount of Olives at the end of the seven year trib. The Pretrib Rapture is the Church meeting HIM IN THE AIR. Believer's are not appointed to wrath, friend.

 

[ninja007]

A Post-Tribulation Rapture Is Unscriptural


1,290 Days From The Abomination Of Desolation To Second Coming

One of the strongest arguments against a Post-Tribulation Rapture is found in Daniel 12:11...

Daniel 12:11, “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

The “Abomination of Desolation” is the event when the Antichrist stands up in the 3rd temple in Jerusalem (yet to be rebuilt) and proclaims himself as god (2nd Thessalonians 2:4), and the daily animal sacrifice is taken away (ceased). The Bible plainly teaches that from this event until the end of the Tribulation will be 1,290 days (or 3 1/2 years).

Jesus warned about this event in Matthew 24:15...

Matthew 24:15-16 and 22, “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains ... And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”


Now the Lord specifically teaches that NO MAN knoweth the time of His return...

Mark 13:32-33 and 37, “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. ... And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

Clearly the teaching of a Post-Tribulation Rapture causes a big problem here and completely contradicts the Bible. Everyone would know beyond any shadow-of-a-doubt that from the time that the Antichrist claims to be god from Jerusalem's temple, there are exactly 3 1/2 years remaining until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Daniel 12:11 makes this very plain.

Daniel 9:27 also teaches about the Abomination of Desolation, which occurs half-way through the Tribulation Period...

Daniel 9:27, “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

And here's even another Scripture in Daniel 11:31 concerning the Abomination of Desolation...

Daniel 11:31, “And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.”
​

 

[DriftingSand]

Christ will return once and gather up all Christians. By definition, a Christian is someone who has faith in Christ. They who lack faith in Christ are not Christians. So the question becomes: When will Christ return? Before, during, or after a Great Tribulation?

Here's one description of Christ's return:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
"16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Note: When Christ returns, the "dead in Christ shall rise first."

The Bible tells us when the "dead in Christ shall rise first":

John 6:40,
"40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44,
"44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54,
"54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

The dead shall be raised on "the last day." Very important! When is "the last day?"

The "last day" coincides with the "last" or "final" or "seventh" Trump of God:

1 Corinthians 15:52,
"52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

When is "the last trump?" After the previous 6 trumps. Here's the Bible's description of the 7 trumps of God. Christ returns when the 7th trump is sounded. The previous 6 trumps announce various phases of the Great Tribulation:

Revelation 8:2, "2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Revelation 8:7, "7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, ..."
Revelation 8:8, "8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"
Revelation 8:10, " 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp ..."
Revelation 8:12, " 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, ..."
Revelation 9:1, "1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."
Revelation 9:13, "13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"
Revelation 11:15, "15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

So, in summary, there have been faithful Christians throughout history. The vast majority have died and their bodies are in a grave. A Great Tribulation is to come. At the "last day" at the sound of the "final trump" Christ will return and "the dead in Christ" shall be raised. This great day doesn't occur until AFTER the previous 6 trumps of God which announce various phases of the Great Tribulation.

disagree DS. The Church is Jesus' Bride. Jesus doesn't punish His Bride. Only unbelievers and Israel will be punished for 7 years. The Lord RETURNS WITH HIS CHURCH to the Mount of Olives at the end of the seven year trib. The Pretrib Rapture is the Church meeting HIM IN THE AIR. Believer's are not appointed to wrath, friend.

I'm simply pointing out exactly what the Bible says. If you disagree with me then you disagree with the Word. If you agree with the Word then how do you answer the Scriptures I posted?

Perhaps you can define "the last day" as a starting point.

 

[ninja007]

Christ will return once and gather up all Christians. By definition, a Christian is someone who has faith in Christ. They who lack faith in Christ are not Christians. So the question becomes: When will Christ return? Before, during, or after a Great Tribulation?

Here's one description of Christ's return:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
"16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Note: When Christ returns, the "dead in Christ shall rise first."

The Bible tells us when the "dead in Christ shall rise first":

John 6:40,
"40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44,
"44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54,
"54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

The dead shall be raised on "the last day." Very important! When is "the last day?"

The "last day" coincides with the "last" or "final" or "seventh" Trump of God:

1 Corinthians 15:52,
"52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

When is "the last trump?" After the previous 6 trumps. Here's the Bible's description of the 7 trumps of God. Christ returns when the 7th trump is sounded. The previous 6 trumps announce various phases of the Great Tribulation:

Revelation 8:2, "2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Revelation 8:7, "7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, ..."
Revelation 8:8, "8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"
Revelation 8:10, " 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp ..."
Revelation 8:12, " 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, ..."
Revelation 9:1, "1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."
Revelation 9:13, "13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"
Revelation 11:15, "15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

So, in summary, there have been faithful Christians throughout history. The vast majority have died and their bodies are in a grave. A Great Tribulation is to come. At the "last day" at the sound of the "final trump" Christ will return and "the dead in Christ" shall be raised. This great day doesn't occur until AFTER the previous 6 trumps of God which announce various phases of the Great Tribulation.

disagree DS. The Church is Jesus' Bride. Jesus doesn't punish His Bride. Only unbelievers and Israel will be punished for 7 years. The Lord RETURNS WITH HIS CHURCH to the Mount of Olives at the end of the seven year trib. The Pretrib Rapture is the Church meeting HIM IN THE AIR. Believer's are not appointed to wrath, friend.

I'm simply pointing out exactly what the Bible says. If you disagree with me then you disagree with the Word. If you agree with the Word then how do you answer the Scriptures I posted?

Perhaps you can define "the last day" as a starting point.

THE last day in John isn't talking about the rapture. Jesus uses the term "last day" to indicate when the lost would be judged. Rev 20 makes it clear that the unsaved will not be judged until after the millennium--yet another 1000 year gap.

 

[ninja007]

the last trump isn't talking about the rapture. John wrote Revelation 40 years after Paul wrote his first epistle to the Corinthians. How could Paul refer to something that was not yet revealed?

 

[DriftingSand]

Christ will return once and gather up all Christians. By definition, a Christian is someone who has faith in Christ. They who lack faith in Christ are not Christians. So the question becomes: When will Christ return? Before, during, or after a Great Tribulation?

Here's one description of Christ's return:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
"16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Note: When Christ returns, the "dead in Christ shall rise first."

The Bible tells us when the "dead in Christ shall rise first":

John 6:40,
"40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44,
"44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54,
"54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

The dead shall be raised on "the last day." Very important! When is "the last day?"

The "last day" coincides with the "last" or "final" or "seventh" Trump of God:

1 Corinthians 15:52,
"52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

When is "the last trump?" After the previous 6 trumps. Here's the Bible's description of the 7 trumps of God. Christ returns when the 7th trump is sounded. The previous 6 trumps announce various phases of the Great Tribulation:

Revelation 8:2, "2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Revelation 8:7, "7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, ..."
Revelation 8:8, "8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"
Revelation 8:10, " 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp ..."
Revelation 8:12, " 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, ..."
Revelation 9:1, "1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."
Revelation 9:13, "13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"
Revelation 11:15, "15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

So, in summary, there have been faithful Christians throughout history. The vast majority have died and their bodies are in a grave. A Great Tribulation is to come. At the "last day" at the sound of the "final trump" Christ will return and "the dead in Christ" shall be raised. This great day doesn't occur until AFTER the previous 6 trumps of God which announce various phases of the Great Tribulation.

disagree DS. The Church is Jesus' Bride. Jesus doesn't punish His Bride. Only unbelievers and Israel will be punished for 7 years. The Lord RETURNS WITH HIS CHURCH to the Mount of Olives at the end of the seven year trib. The Pretrib Rapture is the Church meeting HIM IN THE AIR. Believer's are not appointed to wrath, friend.

I'm simply pointing out exactly what the Bible says. If you disagree with me then you disagree with the Word. If you agree with the Word then how do you answer the Scriptures I posted?

Perhaps you can define "the last day" as a starting point.

THE last day in John isn't talking about the rapture. Jesus uses the term "last day" to indicate when the lost would be judged. Rev 20 makes it clear that the unsaved will not be judged until after the millennium--yet another 1000 year gap.

Hello ninja007. I count you a brother/sister in Christ and won't let this topic divide me from fellow Christians but I do believe that it's a fairly important topic and I do believe in seeking the truth in all things.

"The last day" of John is the day that believers in Christ who are currently in the grave will be resurrected. They will literally be raised from the dead and reunited with their spirit for when a person dies their body turns to dust but their spirit is sent to Heaven (Acts 7:59). So, on the last day, the dead in Christ will be raised. Now look at these verses used so commonly by pre-trib believers in the rapture:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The dead rise first THEN we which are alive meet them in the air with Christ. There's the rapture. It occurs on the last day because that's when the dead in Christ shall be raised.

Now ... the Great Tribulation isn't a "punishment" of the bride as you mentioned in an earlier post. Noah and his family experienced a Great Tribulation but were saved in the midst of it. The Bible says that the coming Tribulation will be like it was in the days of Noah. So many faithful Christians will be present during that Tribulation but will be protected just as Noah was.

Points to consider:

1) Christians (Christ's bride) have suffered death and persecution for centuries as a result of their faith in Christ and the tenets of biblical Christianity. Even others claiming to be "Christian" have gravely persecuted Bible believing, devout Christians (Inquisition, etc.). Why would God allow His bride to suffer persecution at the hands of the Inquisitors or the Bolsheviks or the Romans, etc.? Because persecution is a test of our faith and devotion.

2) In line with the above comment be it known that Christ mentions death and persecution of devout men of God:
Matthew 23:35, "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."
Matthew 24:9, "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."
Here Christ prophesies that His bride will be persecuted and killed as a result of their belief. So Christ promises that Christians (His bride) will suffer death as a result of their belief.

3) We all need to study closely the prophecy of Christ's return as described in Matthew 13:38-43. Who does Christ and His angels take from the field and who remain IN the field during the following tribulation event?:

Matthew 13:38-43, "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

a) The field is the entire world.
b) The tares are the children of the devil.
c) The wheat are the children of God (the bride).
d) Christ returns with His angels to reap a harvest (judgment).
e) The tares are "raptured" (seized by violence) (see the 1828 Webster's Dictionary and the definition of "rapture").
f) The wheat (Christians/the bride of Christ) remain in the field.

 

[DriftingSand]

An interesting thing about "wheat" and "tares." In reality a tare is a plant that resembles young wheat plants. Only when both the wheat and the tares reach adulthood can they easily become recognizable as two, different species. What's really cool is that the wheat heads get so heavy that they make the plant bow down. So it seems appropriate that Christians would be likened to the wheat plants as they bow their heads in humble prayer.

Note the tare on the left-hand side of the photo compared to the wheat in the center.

 

[the_human_being]

Christ will return once and gather up all Christians. By definition, a Christian is someone who has faith in Christ. They who lack faith in Christ are not Christians. So the question becomes: When will Christ return? Before, during, or after a Great Tribulation?

Here's one description of Christ's return:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
"16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Note: When Christ returns, the "dead in Christ shall rise first."

The Bible tells us when the "dead in Christ shall rise first":

John 6:40,
"40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44,
"44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54,
"54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

The dead shall be raised on "the last day." Very important! When is "the last day?"

The "last day" coincides with the "last" or "final" or "seventh" Trump of God:

1 Corinthians 15:52,
"52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

When is "the last trump?" After the previous 6 trumps. Here's the Bible's description of the 7 trumps of God. Christ returns when the 7th trump is sounded. The previous 6 trumps announce various phases of the Great Tribulation:

Revelation 8:2, "2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Revelation 8:7, "7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, ..."
Revelation 8:8, "8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"
Revelation 8:10, " 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp ..."
Revelation 8:12, " 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, ..."
Revelation 9:1, "1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."
Revelation 9:13, "13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"
Revelation 11:15, "15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

So, in summary, there have been faithful Christians throughout history. The vast majority have died and their bodies are in a grave. A Great Tribulation is to come. At the "last day" at the sound of the "final trump" Christ will return and "the dead in Christ" shall be raised. This great day doesn't occur until AFTER the previous 6 trumps of God which announce various phases of the Great Tribulation.

disagree DS. The Church is Jesus' Bride. Jesus doesn't punish His Bride. Only unbelievers and Israel will be punished for 7 years. The Lord RETURNS WITH HIS CHURCH to the Mount of Olives at the end of the seven year trib. The Pretrib Rapture is the Church meeting HIM IN THE AIR. Believer's are not appointed to wrath, friend.

Read the Bible. "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation" Read it. AFTER the Tribulation. The Christ returns and then the rapture or resurrection of the saints takes place. Christians go through the Tribulation but are saved from God's WRATH upon the earth. It is God's wrath they do not have to endure - they do endure the Tribulation. Read it carefully. Immediately after the tribulation of those days will the sun and moon turn dark and the trumpet will sound and Christ will be seen returning in the clouds. AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

 

[DriftingSand]

Christ will return once and gather up all Christians. By definition, a Christian is someone who has faith in Christ. They who lack faith in Christ are not Christians. So the question becomes: When will Christ return? Before, during, or after a Great Tribulation?

Here's one description of Christ's return:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
"16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Note: When Christ returns, the "dead in Christ shall rise first."

The Bible tells us when the "dead in Christ shall rise first":

John 6:40,
"40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44,
"44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54,
"54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

The dead shall be raised on "the last day." Very important! When is "the last day?"

The "last day" coincides with the "last" or "final" or "seventh" Trump of God:

1 Corinthians 15:52,
"52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

When is "the last trump?" After the previous 6 trumps. Here's the Bible's description of the 7 trumps of God. Christ returns when the 7th trump is sounded. The previous 6 trumps announce various phases of the Great Tribulation:

Revelation 8:2, "2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Revelation 8:7, "7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, ..."
Revelation 8:8, "8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"
Revelation 8:10, " 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp ..."
Revelation 8:12, " 12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, ..."
Revelation 9:1, "1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit."
Revelation 9:13, "13And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"
Revelation 11:15, "15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

So, in summary, there have been faithful Christians throughout history. The vast majority have died and their bodies are in a grave. A Great Tribulation is to come. At the "last day" at the sound of the "final trump" Christ will return and "the dead in Christ" shall be raised. This great day doesn't occur until AFTER the previous 6 trumps of God which announce various phases of the Great Tribulation.

disagree DS. The Church is Jesus' Bride. Jesus doesn't punish His Bride. Only unbelievers and Israel will be punished for 7 years. The Lord RETURNS WITH HIS CHURCH to the Mount of Olives at the end of the seven year trib. The Pretrib Rapture is the Church meeting HIM IN THE AIR. Believer's are not appointed to wrath, friend.

Read the Bible. "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation" Read it. AFTER the Tribulation. The Christ returns and then the rapture or resurrection of the saints takes place. Christians go through the Tribulation but are saved from God's WRATH upon the earth. It is God's wrath they do not have to endure - they do endure the Tribulation. Read it carefully. Immediately after the tribulation of those days will the sun and moon turn dark and the trumpet will sound and Christ will be seen returning in the clouds. AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Amen!! Yup ... and that final event takes place at the sound of that final trump -- the seventh trump of God:

Matthew 24:29-31, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Revelation 11:15, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

[hobelim]

Christ will return once and gather up all Christians. By definition, a Christian is someone who has faith in Christ. They who lack faith in Christ are not Christians. So the question becomes: When will Christ return? Before, during, or after a Great Tribulation?

And then that Evil One will be revealed, whom our Lord Jesus will consume with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the revelation of his coming. 2 thessalonians 2:8


This verse clearly shows that Jesus will return after the tribulation and by speaking, as a talking human being and not a supernatural entity in the sky, he will destroy the antichrist.

 

[hobelim]

Amen!! Yup ... and that final event takes place at the sound of that final trump -- the seventh trump of God:

Matthew 24:29-31, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Revelation 11:15, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Some people who think there will be some sort of musical sound coming from the sky will not have ears to hear unless it is understood that a trumpet of God is a metaphor for a prophet and that each prophet receives their prophecy through an angel which reveals that the seven trumpets represent seven prophets.

Many angels could have already sounded their trumpets by now and many who do not comprehend the metaphor would have heard absolutely nothing and maybe even hated and reviled the sound buzzing and burning like a fire just above the grasp of their conscious perception..


According to scripture, when the seventh angels trumpet begins to sound, the mystery of God will be revealed.

 

[DriftingSand]

Amen!! Yup ... and that final event takes place at the sound of that final trump -- the seventh trump of God:

Matthew 24:29-31, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Revelation 11:15, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Some people who think there will be some sort of musical sound coming from the sky will not have ears to hear unless it is understood that a trumpet of God is a metaphor for a prophet and that each prophet receives their prophecy through an angel which reveals that the seven trumpets represent seven prophets.

Many angels could have already sounded their trumpets by now and many who do not comprehend the metaphor would have heard absolutely nothing and maybe even hated and reviled the sound buzzing just above the grasp of their conscious perception..


According to scripture, when the seventh angels trumpet begins to sound, the mystery of God will be revealed.

I've often wondered about the "trumps" and whether they were a literal sound or some other sort of divine announcement. Regardless, though, I think we can agree that the events spoken of in Revelation in relation to or corresponding to each of the "seven trumps" haven't occurred yet. They all seem to be global in nature. That is, the events spoken of seem to have worldwide consequences.

Each instance in the Bible when the word "trump" or "trumpet" is used it's the exact same Hebrew word and it means literally, "trumpet." That being the case we may very well expect some literal sound announcing some portion of the coming tribulation. Whatever the case may be we need to be "watchmen on the wall" and pay attention to the times and the seasons.

 

[hobelim]

I've often wondered about the "trumps" and whether they were a literal sound or some other sort of divine announcement. Regardless, though, I think we can agree that the events spoken of in Revelation in relation to or corresponding to each of the "seven trumps" haven't occurred yet. They all seem to be global in nature. That is, the events spoken of seem to have worldwide consequences.

Each instance in the Bible when the word "trump" or "trumpet" is used it's the exact same Hebrew word and it means literally, "trumpet." That being the case we may very well expect some literal sound announcing some portion of the coming tribulation. Whatever the case may be we need to be "watchmen on the wall" and pay attention to the times and the seasons.

Elijah was referred to as the trumpet of God which has nothing to do with blowing a horn.

No, I do not agree that the seven angels have not yet sounded their trumpets. Over the past 2000 years many could easily have come and gone without anyone who was or is expecting a musical sound hearing a thing even if they learned about the trumpet sounding in a grade school history class......

Remember it is the Christian dead who will be the first to rise at the sound of the final trumpet.