Parkland resource officer charged with neglect, negligence related to school shooting

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Tell me you're not stating that Cruz was/is an NRA member? And gun control legislation generally does not apply to law enforcement so you're 2 untruths in thus far.

The NRA owns our government, and that's the problem. If we left it up to the people, Premium Members like Cruz wouldn't be able to buy weapons.

So tell me exactly the reason in your opinion why Cruz should not have been allowed to legally acquire a weapon.

1) He was crazy.
2) He wasn't a police officer or a soldier (a member of a well-regulated militia).

Those are the two reasons he shouldn't have had a weapon.

I can't believe you're still insisting Cruz was/is an NRA member. As far as your responses to my question

1) He was crazy - I agree that he was exhibiting symptoms and behaviors that should have resulted in a a course of action that should have protected him from himself and everyone else from him. It has been reported that Petersen at least made an attempt in this area

2) He wasn't a police officer/soldier - irrelevent but on the other hand, how many mass killers were military vets or LEOs (current or former) - too many
​

Tell me you're not stating that Cruz was/is an NRA member? And gun control legislation generally does not apply to law enforcement so you're 2 untruths in thus far.

Also if any of those reasons have to do with behavior, threats, etc that were known to law enforcement, why are they (FBI, local law enforcement) not being held criminally liable for not heeding the warnings they were aware of and doing something about the situation before it escalated to that point?

Why should they be?

We work on the assumption that every American has the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to own as many guns as they want, because 200 years ago, a bunch of barely literate slave rapists couldn't write a militia amendment clearly.

So they would have had to have arrested him for what, facebook posts?

I don't have access to his criminal history at the moment but a pattern of violence and a history of making threats of violence should have allowed them to arrest him. There is no guarantee that this would have been enough to change the trajectory he was on but the one thing that we know for sure is that it doesn't appear that anyone even tried, other than Petersen, at least he's the only one that I'm aware of.

And Florida's Baker Act does allow people to be temporarily committed without their consent under certain circumstances

The Florida Mental Health Act of 1971 (Florida Statute 394.451-394.47891[1] [2009 rev.]), commonly known as the "Baker Act," allows the involuntary institutionalization and examination of an individual.

The Baker Act allows for involuntary examination (what some call emergency or involuntary commitment), which can be initiated by judges, law enforcement officials, physicians, or mental health professionals. There must be evidence that the person:

• possibly has a mental illness.
• is in danger of becoming a harm to self, harm to others, or is self neglectful.

Both of these are defined in the Baker Act.

Examinations may last up to 72 hours after a person is deemed medically stable and occur in over 100 Florida Department of Children and Families-designated receiving facilities statewide.[2]

There are many possible outcomes following examination of the patient. These include the release of the individual to the community (or other community placement), a petition for involuntary inpatient placement (often called civil commitment), involuntary outpatient placement (what some call outpatient commitment or assisted treatment orders), or voluntary treatment (if the person is competent to consent to voluntary treatment and consents to voluntary treatment). The involuntary outpatient placement language in the Baker Act took effect as part of the Baker Act reform in 2005.

The legislation was nicknamed the "Baker Act" after Florida Democratic state representative from Miami, Maxine Baker,[3] who served from 1963 to 1972. She had a strong interest in mental health issues, served as chair of the House Committee on Mental Health, and was the sponsor of the bill.

The nickname has led to the term "Baker Act" as a transitive verb, and "Baker Acted" as a passive-voice verb, for invoking the Act to force an individual's commitment. Although the Baker Act is a statute only for the state of Florida, use of "Baker Acting" as a verb has become prevalent as a slang term for involuntary commitment in other regions of the United States
Florida Mental Health Act - Wikipedia
​

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Wrong, the sheriffs were called to his house 16X before the shooting incident, he assaulted people in school 6x before he was expelled, and yet no arrests, no psychological evaluation.

The local authorities and state failed the public.

So he was a typical high school boy who got into fights.

Just can't get worked up about that.

How many CRIMES was he convicted of? ZERO. m

And he was still able to walk in and buy an AR-15.

So this is where your argument keeps failing. LOTS of people walk into gun stores and purchase weapons yet only a relatively small amount turn into mass killers. So the guns themselves are not the problem. And as you know, evertime an attack takes places everyone is on their phone summoning up people who have the biggest & baddest guns available as the ONLY solution to a person with a gun who is intent upon killing as many people as he can before dying himself.

In this case, Cruz should have been a prohibited person but no one wanted to step up and be that person and make the hard choice. I don't know what to tell you when the laws are in place, the intel is there, the police & FBI are aware yet this kid still managed not only to commit the crime he did but leave the scene of the massacre undetected.

And lastly and in some cases most importantly, there is not a whole lot you can do about an ambush, which is essentially what this was. People need to get their heads out of the clouds and realize that no matter how much we might wish that the world is like a Disney movie, it is not. There are evil and ill people in the world for whom depriving you or your loved ones of their lives means nothing to them and the repercussions that they suffer as a result of their crimes are miniscule in comparison to the heartbreak and carnage they create. In my personal opinion, our country is not ready for armed personnel embedded in their children's schools but there are members of society that would have no qualms about dispatching anyone attempting to harm any of their students. We should quit restricting their ability to do so by making them choose between risking their livlihoods or their or their students lives particularly since we know that stopping the threat the moment it's detected is the most critical factor and you can't do that if the shooter is the only person in the environment who is armed.

And just for the record, my niece & nephews attended grammar school where there were two armed protection officers at the front gate during drop-off & pick-up and none of them nor any of the other students that I can see, seems to have been traumatized by the fact that there were men with guns in front of the school in order to ensure their protection.

 

[JoeB131]

Cruz was also a Democrat.

Actually, he was a Trump Supporter.. but don't let that stop you. Even had swastikas on his weapons.

Well we do. I would be surprised if any State did not have an involuntary commitment law. If the individual presents a danger to themselves or others, they can be involuntarily committed for a few days, usually three, to find out how screwed up they are in the head. After that, you need a judge to confirm the commitment.

Sorry, man, before the shooting, Cruz was just an angsty teenager.

If we locked up every angsty teen, we'd be needing mental health cities, not just hospitals.

The problem wasn't "We didn't lock him up" it was, "He was able to buy a military grade gun!"

 

[JoeB131]

I can't believe you're still insisting Cruz was/is an NRA member. As far as your responses to my question

1) He was crazy - I agree that he was exhibiting symptoms and behaviors that should have resulted in a a course of action that should have protected him from himself and everyone else from him. It has been reported that Petersen at least made an attempt in this area

I think you miss the irony of calling him a "NRA Premium Member", but don't worry, the short bus will be around shortly.

Yes, he was crazy... and still able to buy a military grade weapon on the "NRA Frequent Flyer" program. The idea that we have to play, "How crazy are you", when the only thing that makes these guys really dangerous is how easily they can get weapons designed to be used on a battlefield.

2) He wasn't a police officer/soldier - irrelevent but on the other hand, how many mass killers were military vets or LEOs (current or former) - too many

Current? Very few. Former? Well, once they are former, there's no good reason for them to have access to that kind of firepower.

I don't have access to his criminal history at the moment but a pattern of violence and a history of making threats of violence should have allowed them to arrest him.

So get back to me when you have facts instead of speculation. Point is, NO ARRESTS. NO CONVICTIONS. This is why he was able to buy a gun.

So this is where your argument keeps failing. LOTS of people walk into gun stores and purchase weapons yet only a relatively small amount turn into mass killers. So the guns themselves are not the problem. And as you know, evertime an attack takes places everyone is on their phone summoning up people who have the biggest & baddest guns available as the ONLY solution to a person with a gun who is intent upon killing as many people as he can before dying himself.

Again, here's a bowl with 100 M&M's. One of them is cyanide, but the other 99 are just fine. Chow down!

 

[JoeB131]

And lastly and in some cases most importantly, there is not a whole lot you can do about an ambush, which is essentially what this was. People need to get their heads out of the clouds and realize that no matter how much we might wish that the world is like a Disney movie, it is not.

Okay, one more time.

EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY BANS PRIVATE GUN OWNERSHIP OR LIMITS IT!

NO OTHER COUNTRY EXCEPT THE US HAS THIS SORT OF THING HAPPEN ON A REGULAR BASIS.

This really isn't freakin' complicated. When you make guns widely available, because it's a "Right", and 18% of the population suffers from some kind of mental illness, you are going to have these things a lot.

 

[SavannahMann]

Cruz was also a Democrat.

Actually, he was a Trump Supporter.. but don't let that stop you. Even had swastikas on his weapons.

Well we do. I would be surprised if any State did not have an involuntary commitment law. If the individual presents a danger to themselves or others, they can be involuntarily committed for a few days, usually three, to find out how screwed up they are in the head. After that, you need a judge to confirm the commitment.

Sorry, man, before the shooting, Cruz was just an angsty teenager.

If we locked up every angsty teen, we'd be needing mental health cities, not just hospitals.

The problem wasn't "We didn't lock him up" it was, "He was able to buy a military grade gun!"

This was not teenage angst. For more than a year he was online making threats, and making them in person. Now threatening to shoot up a school is against the law. Threatening to kill a bunch of people is against the law. Shooter could have faced charges before massacre — had cops done their job, experts say

Stoneman Douglas student warned school that Nikolas Cruz could become shooter

Nikolas Cruz's digital profile 'very, very disturbing' - CNN

Other people have been arrested for making threats. Why was this option unavailable for the FBI and local cops when Cruz was the one making the threats?

 

[JoeB131]

This was not teenage angst. For more than a year he was online making threats, and making them in person. Now threatening to shoot up a school is against the law. Threatening to kill a bunch of people is against the law. Shooter could have faced charges before massacre — had cops done their job, experts say

Stoneman Douglas student warned school that Nikolas Cruz could become shooter

Nikolas Cruz's digital profile 'very, very disturbing' - CNN

Other people have been arrested for making threats. Why was this option unavailable for the FBI and local cops when Cruz was the one making the threats?

Yes, Hindsight is always 20/20.

Let's get real. If we went out and busted everyone who said something stupid on Facebook, we'd have a lot of people in prison.

The "Professional School Shooter" comment was in response to a YouTube video where the person didn't really clearly identify himself. (Do you know how many guys named "Nick Cruz" probably live in Florida.

So we have these goofy laws on the books that allow the cops to do that. And maybe for a week after a school shooting, they all go crazy and arrest any kindergartner who points his finger and says, "Bang". then after parents sue over this foolishiness, they go back to normal.

So you have 1000 Angsty kids, which one is the school shooter? Make sure you are right.

Or we can just make sure none of them can get miltiary grade weapons... then it doesn't matter.

 

[Papageorgio]

This guy was hired to protect and he ran away, he needs to face the charges and let them land where they may.

 

[JoeB131]

This guy was hired to protect and he ran away, he needs to face the charges and let them land where they may.

Except it's not against the law for him to run away. In fact, almost all police training is focused on the safety of the officer, NOT the safety of the public.

So the same laws that protect cops who shoot innocent black kids protects officer Peterson from being cautious.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

This guy was hired to protect and he ran away, he needs to face the charges and let them land where they may.

Except it's not against the law for him to run away. In fact, almost all police training is focused on the safety of the officer, NOT the safety of the public.

So the same laws that protect cops who shoot innocent black kids protects officer Peterson from being cautious.

Wow, this is challenging because it's like you're arguing both sides of the issue.

Let me ask you something. Do you honestly believe that if Cruz hadn't been able to purchase a gun legally that he would have abandoned his plan to shoot up the school and wouldn't have instead simply acquired on illegally?

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, this is challenging because it's like you're arguing both sides of the issue.

Let me ask you something. Do you honestly believe that if Cruz hadn't been able to purchase a gun legally that he would have abandoned his plan to shoot up the school and wouldn't have instead simply acquired on illegally?

I think it would have been a lot harder to acquire one illegally if they were illegal, and if we had an ATF that had the ability to do it's job, he'd have probably been caught.

I like to argue all sides of an issue... It's how you get to the truth.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Wow, this is challenging because it's like you're arguing both sides of the issue.

Let me ask you something. Do you honestly believe that if Cruz hadn't been able to purchase a gun legally that he would have abandoned his plan to shoot up the school and wouldn't have instead simply acquired on illegally?

I think it would have been a lot harder to acquire one illegally if they were illegal, and if we had an ATF that had the ability to do it's job, he'd have probably been caught.

I like to argue all sides of an issue... It's how you get to the truth.

FYI:
He always hated women. Then he decided to kill them.

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, this is challenging because it's like you're arguing both sides of the issue.

Let me ask you something. Do you honestly believe that if Cruz hadn't been able to purchase a gun legally that he would have abandoned his plan to shoot up the school and wouldn't have instead simply acquired on illegally?

I think it would have been a lot harder to acquire one illegally if they were illegal, and if we had an ATF that had the ability to do it's job, he'd have probably been caught.

I like to argue all sides of an issue... It's how you get to the truth.

FYI:
He always hated women. Then he decided to kill them.

Not on topic, but never mind.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Wow, this is challenging because it's like you're arguing both sides of the issue.

Let me ask you something. Do you honestly believe that if Cruz hadn't been able to purchase a gun legally that he would have abandoned his plan to shoot up the school and wouldn't have instead simply acquired on illegally?

I think it would have been a lot harder to acquire one illegally if they were illegal, and if we had an ATF that had the ability to do it's job, he'd have probably been caught.

I like to argue all sides of an issue... It's how you get to the truth.

FYI:
He always hated women. Then he decided to kill them.

Not on topic, but never mind.

Oh is that against the rules here?

The other thread is about how to obtain prohibited status for these murderers before they become murderers so that they no longer have the legal right to purchase a firearm. Isn't that what you said is the problem? That these individuals can legally purchase a weapon even when such as in the case of Cruz, you consider them "crazy"?

 

[JoeB131]

Oh is that against the rules here?

The other thread is about how to obtain prohibited status for these murderers before they become murderers so that they no longer have the legal right to purchase a firearm. Isn't that what you said is the problem? That these individuals can legally purchase a weapon even when such as in the case of Cruz, you consider them "crazy"?

I really didn't look past the first post..

The problem with that philosophy is that once you've said, "Gun Ownership is a right", then taking away a "right" becomes a difficult task.

On the other hand, if gun ownership is a privilege, then you have to show you are responsible enough to have the privilege.