Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border

[Shusha]

Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.

You can't have it both ways. You can't point to the UN in regards to Israeli sovereignty, while at the same time saying UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Palestinians. These people are descendents of the Palestinian's who were driven out of the area by Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun in 1948. They have the right to return to their homeland.

Did you watch the video? Its UN WATCH, not the UN. Do you know what UN WATCH is?

The UN has nothing to do with Israeli sovereignty, other than that it has accepted Israel's membership. UN resolutions to do not form international law and UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Arab Palestinians.

1. The refugees in Gaza ARE ALREADY in their homeland. They never left. They are internally displaced. Not refugees by definition.

2. Descendants of "refugees" are not refugees. That status is not passed down through generations.

3. There is no international law in the world which requires displaced people to return to the exact place, town or building that they were displaced from. In fact, that is contrary to the point of IHL concerning (true) refugees.

 

[Shusha]

If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation and stop breaking all the ceasefires.

Israel believes (and I think she is right) that ending the blockade would result in an escalation of war.

THAT is the entire point I've been trying to make. So here's the thing. Let's assume that you are right and I am wrong and that the cessation of the blockade will lead to peace, goodwill and brotherhood between Israel and Gaza. How are you going to convince Israel that this peace will happen? Do you think massing hundreds of thousands of protesters at the border, armed with guns, grenades, knives, IEDs, firebomb balloons and stones is going to convince Israel of Gaza's peaceful vision of the future?

Do you see how that is irrational thinking? Let's prove to Israel how peaceful we are! With guns, grenades, knives, IEDs, firebombs and stones!

 

[P F Tinmore]

Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.

You can't have it both ways. You can't point to the UN in regards to Israeli sovereignty, while at the same time saying UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Palestinians. These people are descendents of the Palestinian's who were driven out of the area by Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun in 1948. They have the right to return to their homeland.

Did you watch the video? Its UN WATCH, not the UN. Do you know what UN WATCH is?

The UN has nothing to do with Israeli sovereignty, other than that it has accepted Israel's membership. UN resolutions to do not form international law and UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Arab Palestinians.

1. The refugees in Gaza ARE ALREADY in their homeland. They never left. They are internally displaced. Not refugees by definition.

2. Descendants of "refugees" are not refugees. That status is not passed down through generations.

3. There is no international law in the world which requires displaced people to return to the exact place, town or building that they were displaced from. In fact, that is contrary to the point of IHL concerning (true) refugees.

Did you watch the video? Its UN WATCH, not the UN. Do you know what UN WATCH is?

Yes, it is one of Israel's many propaganda organizations.

 

[Shusha]

There is no such thing as "East Jerusalem". Jerusalem was divided only because of fierce fighting between the Israeli army and the Jordanian army (who had absolutely no legal right to it). The final status of Jerusalem is to be negotiated as part of the final agreement between Israel and a future State of Palestine.

There is no possible legal claim to be made that Jerusalem, in its entirety, is "not Israeli property". Anyone who argues that it ALREADY belongs to a State of Palestine or that it is Arab land has fallen into a web of deceit formed by Arabs and supported by an international community which makes up law in order to demonize Jews.

The Old City of Jerusalem contains the most sacred places of the Jewish people. It has been the focus of the Jewish people's faith and history for thousands of years. Israel is strong enough to keep it. And she will.

There isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.

Fortunately, international law is not subject to popular vote.

Oslo Accords:

CHAPTER 3 - LEGAL AFFAIRS

ARTICLE XVII
Jurisdiction

1. In accordance with the DOP, the jurisdiction of the Council will cover West Bank and Gaza Strip territory as a single territorial unit, except for:

a. issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations: Jerusalem, settlements, specified military locations, Palestinian refugees, borders, foreign relations and Israelis; and

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You are so full of shit. If Palestinians wanted peace they would stop floating fire balloons. They would stop trying to sneak into Israel to go on a murder spree. Just stop.

If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation and stop breaking all the ceasefires.

If the "Palestinians" wanted peace, they'd go back to Jordan.

 

[Shusha]

You are so full of shit. If Palestinians wanted peace they would stop floating fire balloons. They would stop trying to sneak into Israel to go on a murder spree. Just stop.

If Israel wanted peace, they would end the occupation and stop breaking all the ceasefires.

Again, you lie.
No occupation and it is not Israel breaking any ceasefires.

Billo argues that if there is only 106 rockets from Gaza during a ceasefire it doesn't break the ceasefire. But if Israel responds even once, then its Israel which is breaking the ceasefire. Irrational.

 

[Shusha]

Dr. Einat Wilf speaking about Westsplaining.

You can't have it both ways. You can't point to the UN in regards to Israeli sovereignty, while at the same time saying UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Palestinians. These people are descendents of the Palestinian's who were driven out of the area by Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun in 1948. They have the right to return to their homeland.

Did you watch the video? Its UN WATCH, not the UN. Do you know what UN WATCH is?

The UN has nothing to do with Israeli sovereignty, other than that it has accepted Israel's membership. UN resolutions to do not form international law and UN resolutions do not give the right of return to Arab Palestinians.

1. The refugees in Gaza ARE ALREADY in their homeland. They never left. They are internally displaced. Not refugees by definition.

2. Descendants of "refugees" are not refugees. That status is not passed down through generations.

3. There is no international law in the world which requires displaced people to return to the exact place, town or building that they were displaced from. In fact, that is contrary to the point of IHL concerning (true) refugees.

Did you watch the video? Its UN WATCH, not the UN. Do you know what UN WATCH is?

Yes, it is one of Israel's many propaganda organizations.

You don't have to watch the video. You don't Westsplain. You know exactly what Arab Palestinians intend with their "March of Return".

 

[Slyhunter]

There is no such thing as "East Jerusalem". Jerusalem was divided only because of fierce fighting between the Israeli army and the Jordanian army (who had absolutely no legal right to it). The final status of Jerusalem is to be negotiated as part of the final agreement between Israel and a future State of Palestine.

There is no possible legal claim to be made that Jerusalem, in its entirety, is "not Israeli property". Anyone who argues that it ALREADY belongs to a State of Palestine or that it is Arab land has fallen into a web of deceit formed by Arabs and supported by an international community which makes up law in order to demonize Jews.

The Old City of Jerusalem contains the most sacred places of the Jewish people. It has been the focus of the Jewish people's faith and history for thousands of years. Israel is strong enough to keep it. And she will.

There isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.

Single Arab country. We don't give a fuck what Arabs think.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ Billo_Really, Slyhunter, et al,

In pre-War 1967, who had effective control, assumed by military invasion, of East Jerusalem?

They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.

East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property. You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis did not achieve control over Jerusalem until 7 June 1967 (Six-Day War). East Jesuem was a sector of the city that came under the control and occupied by the Arab Legion (an element of the Arab League Forces) during the Arab–Israeli War (alla 1948), Israeli Paratroopers advanced to assume the Old City the Temple Mount and the Western Wall, in the wake of retreating Jordanian Forces.

East Jerusalem was NOT under Palestinian Control under the Ottoman Empire (a period of more than 700 years). The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem (after the surrender in the Armistice of Mudros - 1918). The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Mandate era period. The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Arab–Israeli War (alla 1948); nor did the Arab Palestinians have control of East Jerusalem after the Jordanian Parliament (Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank and an equal number of Jordanians) unanimously approved a motion to constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and include the West Bank.

The Israelis did not assume control of the West Bank (including Jerusalem) from Arab Palestinians, but from the Jordanians.

Israel took nothing from the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank or Jerusalem. After a millennium, the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank did not have effective or sovereign control of a single inch of ground.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ Billo_Really, Slyhunter, et al,

In pre-War 1967, who had effective control, assumed by military invasion, of East Jerusalem?

They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.

East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property. You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis did not achieve control over Jerusalem until 7 June 1967 (Six-Day War). East Jesuem was a sector of the city that came under the control and occupied by the Arab Legion (an element of the Arab League Forces) during the Arab–Israeli War (alla 1948), Israeli Paratroopers advanced to assume the Old City the Temple Mount and the Western Wall, in the wake of retreating Jordanian Forces.

East Jerusalem was NOT under Palestinian Control under the Ottoman Empire (a period of more than 700 years). The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem (after the surrender in the Armistice of Mudros - 1918). The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Mandate era period. The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Arab–Israeli War (alla 1948); nor did the Arab Palestinians have control of East Jerusalem after the Jordanian Parliament (Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank and an equal number of Jordanians) unanimously approved a motion to constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and include the West Bank.

The Israelis did not assume control of the West Bank (including Jerusalem) from Arab Palestinians, but from the Jordanians.

Israel took nothing from the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank or Jerusalem. After a millennium, the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank did not have effective or sovereign control of a single inch of ground.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.

 

[Shusha]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ Billo_Really, Slyhunter, et al,

In pre-War 1967, who had effective control, assumed by military invasion, of East Jerusalem?

They're not getting Jerusalem as their capital.

East Jerusalem is not Israeli property and it will never be Israeli property. You cannot acquire land at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis did not achieve control over Jerusalem until 7 June 1967 (Six-Day War). East Jesuem was a sector of the city that came under the control and occupied by the Arab Legion (an element of the Arab League Forces) during the Arab–Israeli War (alla 1948), Israeli Paratroopers advanced to assume the Old City the Temple Mount and the Western Wall, in the wake of retreating Jordanian Forces.

East Jerusalem was NOT under Palestinian Control under the Ottoman Empire (a period of more than 700 years). The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem (after the surrender in the Armistice of Mudros - 1918). The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Mandate era period. The Arab Palestinians did NOT have control of East Jerusalem during the Arab–Israeli War (alla 1948); nor did the Arab Palestinians have control of East Jerusalem after the Jordanian Parliament (Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank and an equal number of Jordanians) unanimously approved a motion to constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and include the West Bank.

The Israelis did not assume control of the West Bank (including Jerusalem) from Arab Palestinians, but from the Jordanians.

Israel took nothing from the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank or Jerusalem. After a millennium, the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank did not have effective or sovereign control of a single inch of ground.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.

Sovereignty requires control over territory. Its literally a pre-requisite for sovereignty.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.

◈ IF I say that Jordan had "effective control" (a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation) over the West Bank, THEN you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" (your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy). And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians (not party to the conflict) could not freely exercise their self-determination. And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​

You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion. Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."

◈ IF I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, THEN you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced (until military governorship) into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​

You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

We need to look at the consequences.

• You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military (IDF) → paramilitary (Police) and Secutiry Forces (Shin Bet, etc).

• That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt. This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."

•This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip. The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control. And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups (Palestine Islamic Jihad) as well as foreign military influences [Iranian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)].​

There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty. Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League. Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people (sometimes).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

Reports are coming in that the fifth Gazan has been killed as a result of yesterday’s violent riots on the Gaza border. This fifth terrorist killed was only 13 years old, raised to be sent to the front lines by a genocidal society called “palestine“, with the encouragement of an educational system and parents that raise them to kill Jews. It makes us Israelis very sad that young kids are being used as violent terrorists, but we will do everything we have to in order to protect ourselves. It is up to the Arab Muslims to stop using their women, children and elderly as human shields and violent terrorists.

The following video is just one of many showing these young kids being used in the Gaza border violence and then being shot by the IDF. It is not necessarily the 13 year old terrorist reported to have died from his wounds.

(full article and video online)

Fifth Terrorist Killed from Gaza Border Fence Violence is a 13-Year-Old Boy

 

[The Original Tree]

Reading that despite ISIS being defeated, Russia has been airdropping more equipment in to Syria, and moving aircraft through Iran in to Syria.

Also Drought in Lebanon and Iran is distressing these two Nations.

 

[Sixties Fan]

That's not to say that Israel should not be interested in finding ways to
improve the living conditions of the Gazans.

Just that in the absence of a departure from the current "quiet for
quiet"arrangement, any Israeli concession regarding the supply into the Gaza
Strip of dual use material - cement, rebar, other metal , fiberglass roving
and associated resin, etc., that can be used in the construction of
military facilities or weapons production - will ultimately cost Israel as
these materials are used to help prepare Hamas and others for war against
the Jewish State.

From a long run perspective, the most humanitarian step Israel could take
today would be to significantly reduce the security cost of dual use
materials by decimating the armories, weapons factories, etc. in the Gaza
Strip followed by a policy that any armories, weapons factories, etc.
discovered after the operation are also destroyed rather than recorded in a
"target bank".

(full article online)

IMRA - Saturday, March 30, 2019 Reality Check: Goal of Gaza Rioters Is Expedite Growth of Military Capabilities - Not Improve Quality of Life

 

[P F Tinmore]

•This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip. The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.

Another bullshit Israeli talking point. Hamas was the elected government in office in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[rylah]

•This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip. The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control.

Another bullshit Israeli talking point. Hamas was the elected government in office in Gaza and the West Bank.

Was Hamas elected to throw opposition down from the rooftops?

Don't confuse Your liberal-infested bourgeois neighborhoods with the Caliphate.
You might have the same luxury cars and drool about the same teenage suicide bombers, but that's about where it ends.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.

◈ IF I say that Jordan had "effective control" (a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation) over the West Bank, THEN you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" (your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy). And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians (not party to the conflict) could not freely exercise their self-determination. And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​

You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion. Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."

◈ IF I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, THEN you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced (until military governorship) into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​

You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

We need to look at the consequences.

• You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military (IDF) → paramilitary (Police) and Secutiry Forces (Shin Bet, etc).

• That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt. This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."

•This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip. The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control. And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups (Palestine Islamic Jihad) as well as foreign military influences [Iranian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)].​

There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty. Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League. Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people (sometimes).

Most Respectfully,
R

You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.

Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.

 

[rylah]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, I' m not confusing a damn thing.

◈ IF I say that Jordan had "effective control" (a necessary condition for an Occupation under the Hague Regulation) over the West Bank, THEN you've consistently called that the use of "Military Force" (your "under the Gun" by a foreign power analogy). And under "effective control" you contend that the Arab Palestinians (not party to the conflict) could not freely exercise their self-determination. And THEN you play the "I'm Confused Card."​

You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion. Your deduction is that the Arab Palestinian cannot execute "self-determination" if they are under "effective control."

◈ IF I say that Jordan established sovereignty over the West Bank, THEN you'll claim that the Arab Palestinians were coerced (until military governorship) into voting for the acceptance of Jordanian sovereignty. And that is not true "self-determination."​

You are still confusing military control with sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

We need to look at the consequences.

• You want the "occupation to end" and the "withdrawal of all foreign" military (IDF) → paramilitary (Police) and Secutiry Forces (Shin Bet, etc).

• That creates a vacuum both attracting both the politically and criminally corupt. This vacuum, among other things, pulls-in the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter, as the new entity that establishes "effective control."

•This is essentially what happened in the Gaza Strip. The Israel Element withdrew and the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) took advantage ot the situation and, by force, took control. And HAMAS has allowed the associate groups (Palestine Islamic Jihad) as well as foreign military influences [Iranian Revolutionary Guards-Quds Force (IRCG-QF)].​

There is no true government in the world that does not maintain some sort of apparatus to maintain "effective control" in the sovereignty. Nowhere is that more evident than in the Arab League. Effective control is the aspect of a government that protects the government and the people (sometimes).

Most Respectfully,
R

You equate "effective control" as exclusive meaning "occupation." That would be incorrect. And you equate 'effective control" with military coersion.

Military control of your own territory is sovereignty. Military control of territory that is no yours is occupation.

There's no part of Palestine, that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish nation by international law.

No Arab nation had ever any sovereignty in that territory, and all potential source of any other sovereignty in that territory is solely a function of an agreement from the Jewish nation.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

I don't believe that HAMAS had any expectation of how wildly successful the "March of Return" would turn out.

Other than to cause a headache for the Israelis and to test the Israeli response, I'm not sure that the original intent of the "March of Return" had anything close to the magnitude of the Arab Palestinian presentation. It is almost as if it was spontaneous that went in a new direction.

I don't think HAMAS expected the propaganda impact the "March" would have. HAMAS had to just pause and take a moment to realize the enormity as to what had happened. And whatever they had planned to do was overtaken by the new opportunity.

Goal of Gaza Rioters Is Expedite Growth of Military Capabilities - Not Improve Quality of Life

(COMMENT)

HAMAS (as do most active Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Guerrillas, and Asymmetric Fighters) has, as essential opportunities to enhance their capabilities, to seize opportunities for various weapons or tools they need to make the next leap.

Most Respectfully,
R