Palestine Before Israel - Maps

[P F Tinmore]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7_ib_9tkSM]Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JStone]

Bogus maps.

Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]

Cambridge University Press

In Ottoman times [400 years duration, prior to World War I], no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
Palestine Boundaries 1833–1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions

 

[dilloduck]

Ok---We will pretend that all those people there aren't real and don't deserve any place to live or any human rights.
Y'all need to give up this strawman.

 

[JStone]

Fakestinians

Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen

Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi, Italian Muslim Assembly

I believe that "Palestinian identity" is something completely artificial: it was forged as a propagandistic tool against Israel. The strange fact is that, at least here in Europe, I have never heard an Arab from the Land of Israel ("Palestine") say: "I am Palestinian."

Please remember that the so-called hero of "Palestinian independence," the pro-Nazi Grand Mufti of British Mandate Palestine, Haj Amin al-Husseini, never claimed that "Palestinians" are to be an independent people: all of his official declarations state that "Palestine must be recognized as a integral part of Syria."
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/aug98/palazzi.htm

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, University of Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries--Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq--attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
http://www.dreuz.info/2011/08/the-war-against-israel-goes-on-by-guy-milliere/

Fakestinian History

Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Jewish and Middle East History

On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."

King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history

Fakestinian Messiahs. Did you know Jesus Christ, the Jewish rabbi who taught from the Torah and observed Passover in the Jerusalem Temple, was REALLY a muslime fakestinian?

We’re talking about an ongoing chain [of prophets of the Islam], from Adam to Muhammad. It’s an ongoing chain, representing the call for monotheism, and the mission of Islam… The prophets were all of the same religion [Islam]… Jesus was born in this land. He lived in this land. It is known that he was born in Bethlehem… He also lived in Nazereth, moved to Jerusalem. So he was a Palestinian par excellence…We respect Jesus, we believe in him [as a Muslim prophet], just as we believe in the prophet Muhammad."

 

[JStone]

Palestine Before Israel

Can you find "Palestine" in the New Testament? No, I didn't think so. It doesn't exist It's a bogus word.

Israel is referenced 2000 times in the Bible. Jesus was King of Israel, not Palestine

Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

Samuel 13:1: Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty two years

Jesus was King of Israel, not "Palestine"

John 12:12-13 The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. They took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."

Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel John 12 Commentary - Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel - BibleGateway.com

Passover was one of the three feasts that Jews were supposed to attend in Jerusalem, and consequently the population of Jerusalem swelled enormously at this time. As this great crowd is beginning to gather from around Israel and the larger world of the diaspora, news about Jesus is spreading, and people are wondering whether he will come to the feast. On Sunday, the day after the party in Bethany at which Mary anointed Jesus, news arrives that Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem, and a crowd of pilgrims, presumably those who had been wondering if he would come, goes out to meet him. Mary's private expression of emotion is now matched by the crowd's public outpouring of enthusiasm.

They shout Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!. These are lines from one of the Psalms of Ascents sung as a welcome to pilgrims coming up to Jerusalem. As such, this is an entirely appropriate thing to do as Jesus is coming up to Jerusalem. The cry of Hosanna! is a Hebrew word (hoshi`ah-na) that had become a greeting or shout of praise but that actually meant "Save!" or "Help!". The cry of Hosanna! and the palm branches are in themselves somewhat ambiguous, but their import is made clear as the crowd adds a further line, Blessed is the King of Israel! (v. 13). Clearly they see in Jesus the answer to their nationalistic, messianic hopes. Earlier a crowd had wanted to make Jesus king (6:15), and now this crowd is recognizing him as king in the city of the great King. Here is the great dream of a Davidic ruler who would come and liberate Israel, establishing peace and subduing the Gentiles (cf. Psalms of Solomon 17:21-25).

John the Baptist's witness to Israel (1:31) finds its initial response in the confession of Nathanael, a true Israelite (1:47), when Nathanael confesses Jesus to be the Son of God, the King of Israel (1:49). Nathanael stands in marked contrast to Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel (3:10), who is unable to understand earthly things, let alone heavenly things. So the first three chapters are characterized by a concern with the initial witness to Israel, and this motif now finds its fullness in this crowd's acclamation of Jesus as the King of Israel. Jesus is indeed King of Israel, and this motif now comes to the fore as the story nears its end His kingdom, however, far transcends Israel's boundaries. "What honor was it to the Lord to be King of Israel? What great thing was it to the King of eternity to become the King of men?".

The crowd is probably not aware that the line they have added to the acclamation is an echo of another passage that further contributes to the depth of revelation concerning Jesus in this story: "The Lord, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm"

.

 

[dilloduck]

spam ? all you got is spam ??

 

[JStone]

spam ? all you got is spam ??

Dildo, show us where "Palestine" is in the New Testament

 

[destroythedome]

Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube

You all waste so much time and energy arqueing over who was there first ( its so easy even a caveman knows he was there first) the point is Israel is there now and palestinians have two choices fight for it or take what Israel offers. Crying about how the poor misunderstood palestinians should have a land of their own wont make it so.

 

[JStone]

Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube

You all waste so much time and energy arqueing over who was there first ( its so easy even a caveman knows he was there first) the point is Israel is there now and palestinians have two choices fight for it or take what Israel offers. Crying about how the poor misunderstood palestinians should have a land of their own wont make it so.

Palestinians: Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death

 

[JStone]

Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube

You all waste so much time and energy arqueing over who was there first ( its so easy even a caveman knows he was there first) the point is Israel is there now and palestinians have two choices fight for it or take what Israel offers. Crying about how the poor misunderstood palestinians should have a land of their own wont make it so.

Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...

By Arabs bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews. This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.

In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube

You all waste so much time and energy arqueing over who was there first ( its so easy even a caveman knows he was there first) the point is Israel is there now and palestinians have two choices fight for it or take what Israel offers. Crying about how the poor misunderstood palestinians should have a land of their own wont make it so.

Good points. The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country like Hamas wants to do. The majority of Palestinians are not ready to surrender.

It is Israel that attacked and occupied Palestine and after a hundred years Israel has not won yet.

 

[JStone]

Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube

You all waste so much time and energy arqueing over who was there first ( its so easy even a caveman knows he was there first) the point is Israel is there now and palestinians have two choices fight for it or take what Israel offers. Crying about how the poor misunderstood palestinians should have a land of their own wont make it so.

Good points. The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do

Since the Romans renamed Israel "Palestina," that would make Jews "Palestinians"

Indeed, Jews were Palestiniains during the British Mandate.

A "Palestinian" can mean a person who is born in the geographical area known prior to 1918 as "Palestine", or a former citizen of the British Mandate territory called Palestine, or an institution related to either of these. Using this definition, both Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews were called "Palestinians".

Before the establishment of the State of Israel, the meaning of the word "Palestinian" didn't discriminate on ethnic grounds, but rather referred to anything associated with the region. The local newspaper, founded in 1932 by Gershon Agron was called The Palestine Post. In 1950, its name was changed to The Jerusalem Post.

In 1923, Pinhas Rutenberg founded the Palestine Electric Company, Ltd. (later to become the Israel Electric Corporation, Ltd.) There was a [Jewish] Palestine Symphony Orchestra, and in World War II, the British assembled a Jewish Brigade to fight the Axis Powers that was known as the Palestine regiment.

Since the establishment of Israel, its citizens are called Israelis, while the term Palestinians usually refers to the Palestinian Arabs.

Definitions of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

Since the Romans renamed Israel "Palestina," that would make Jews "Palestinians"

Indeed, Jews were Palestiniains during the British Mandate.

Yes, there are Palestinian Jews.

 

[JStone]

Cambridge University Press

In Ottoman times [400 years duration, prior to World War I], no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
Palestine Boundaries 1833–1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...

It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.

All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.

Interesting. Name one change to Palestine's borders since they were defined in 1922.

 

[JStone]

Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.

Interesting. Name one change to Palestine's borders since they were defined in 1922.

Israel, not Palestine.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University ...

The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea. The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.Augustine and the Jews: A Christian ... - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University ....

Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem

The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population. The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.

Several other effects were discernable in the period of the postwar reconstruction...

Roman coinage of the period carried the legend Judaea Capta [Judaea Captured], a clear statement of the Jewish subjugation

The province of Judaea was reorganized and even renamed Palestina [the Latin form of the old regional name Philistia]. The name change was another slap in the face to Jewish identity

http://www.harpercollins.com/books/Jesus-Christianity-L-Michael-White/?isbn=9780060816100

Israel appears in the Bible 2000+ times. Palestine, not once.

Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

Samuel 13:1: Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty two years

Jesus was King of Israel, not "Palestine"

Jesus Christ, King of Israel ...

John 12:12-13 The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. They took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."

Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel John 12 Commentary - Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel - BibleGateway.com

Passover was one of the three feasts that Jews were supposed to attend in Jerusalem, and consequently the population of Jerusalem swelled enormously at this time. As this great crowd is beginning to gather from around Israel and the larger world of the diaspora, news about Jesus is spreading, and people are wondering whether he will come to the feast. On Sunday, the day after the party in Bethany at which Mary anointed Jesus, news arrives that Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem, and a crowd of pilgrims, presumably those who had been wondering if he would come, goes out to meet him. Mary's private expression of emotion is now matched by the crowd's public outpouring of enthusiasm.
They shout Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!. These are lines from one of the Psalms of Ascents sung as a welcome to pilgrims coming up to Jerusalem. As such, this is an entirely appropriate thing to do as Jesus is coming up to Jerusalem. The cry of Hosanna! is a Hebrew word (hoshi`ah-na) that had become a greeting or shout of praise but that actually meant "Save!" or "Help!". The cry of Hosanna! and the palm branches are in themselves somewhat ambiguous, but their import is made clear as the crowd adds a further line, Blessed is the King of Israel! (v. 13). Clearly they see in Jesus the answer to their nationalistic, messianic hopes. Earlier a crowd had wanted to make Jesus king (6:15), and now this crowd is recognizing him as king in the city of the great King. Here is the great dream of a Davidic ruler who would come and liberate Israel, establishing peace and subduing the Gentiles (cf. Psalms of Solomon 17:21-25).

John the Baptist's witness to Israel (1:31) finds its initial response in the confession of Nathanael, a true Israelite (1:47), when Nathanael confesses Jesus to be the Son of God, the King of Israel (1:49). Nathanael stands in marked contrast to Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel (3:10), who is unable to understand earthly things, let alone heavenly things. So the first three chapters are characterized by a concern with the initial witness to Israel, and this motif now finds its fullness in this crowd's acclamation of Jesus as the King of Israel. Jesus is indeed King of Israel, and this motif now comes to the fore as the story nears its end His kingdom, however, far transcends Israel's boundaries. "What honor was it to the Lord to be King of Israel? What great thing was it to the King of eternity to become the King of men?".

The crowd is probably not aware that the line they have added to the acclamation is an echo of another passage that further contributes to the depth of revelation concerning Jesus in this story: "The Lord, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm"

.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel, not Palestine.

BTW, where is that 1948 map of Israel?

 

[JStone]

Israel, not Palestine

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

 

[P F Tinmore]

Does Bernard Lewis have a 1948 map of Israel?

 

[JStone]

Israel, not Palestine

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]

Cambridge University Press: The World of Ancient Israel The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press