Our Thirty Year Experiment

[boedicca]

soggy

Time to get the right wing talking points out of your head.

So when you've cut your expences to the necessities and you're still having a hard time keeping up with your bills the right thing to do is ask for a pay cut?

Yeah, let's cut taxes for Warren Buffet, he really needs it!

If Warren Buffet wishes to pay more in taxes, he can always donate a big chunk of money to the government. Instead, he advocates raising taxes on others who really do have to work for a living.

Oh The Magnanimity!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

soggy

Time to get the right wing talking points out of your head.

So when you've cut your expences to the necessities and you're still having a hard time keeping up with your bills the right thing to do is ask for a pay cut?

Yeah, let's cut taxes for Warren Buffet, he really needs it!

So, you're claiming we have cut our spending to the necessities? Are you high?

And yes, I'm sure you're a big fan of taxes.. for everyone else.

You show a ccomplete lack of understanding of taxation and economic growth.

 

[wihosa]

boedicca
What's your point? It was Warren Buffet who pointed out that he doesn't need a tax cut and that in fact his tax rate is lower than his secretary's.

 

[wihosa]

soggy
How many people don't pay taxes?

 

[boedicca]

boedicca
What's your point? It was Warren Buffet who pointed out that he doesn't need a tax cut and that in fact his tax rate is lower than his secretary's.

Then let him volunteer to pay taxes with his own money instead of pandering to politicians by advocating for increased taxes for the middle class. Why should others have to pay more just to assuage his conscience?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Your plan is more like "hey boss, I bought a house I can't afford, a car I can't afford, I take vacations I can't afford, so I need you to fire Bill, give me his pay and BTW.. I only wanna work 20 hrs/week."

yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[NYcarbineer]

soggy

Time to get the right wing talking points out of your head.

So when you've cut your expences to the necessities and you're still having a hard time keeping up with your bills the right thing to do is ask for a pay cut?

Yeah, let's cut taxes for Warren Buffet, he really needs it!

So, you're claiming we have cut our spending to the necessities? Are you high?

And yes, I'm sure you're a big fan of taxes.. for everyone else.

You show a ccomplete lack of understanding of taxation and economic growth.

I pay 3 to 4 times as much income tax as most people in my income range, because I have no children.

Yes, I want to raise other people's taxes. I want to raise them up to the same amount I PAY, if they make the same amount I pay.

That would be fair wouldn't it?

 

[wihosa]

soggy
What have I said that could possibly be construed to mean that I support irresponsibility.

Oh that's right, I don't agree with righties, everyone knows that progressives are irresponsible, coddle criminals and hate America.

How about we just debate the facts?

 

[boedicca]

I pay 3 to 4 times as much income tax as most people in my income range, because I have no children.

Yes, I want to raise other people's taxes. I want to raise them up to the same amount I PAY, if they make the same amount I pay.

That would be fair wouldn't it?

In other words: Misery Loves Company.

How about lower taxes for everyone, including you?

 

[johnrocks]

Perhaps it's more of a 75 plus year experiment that has exposed the failings of too much government intervention, government programs and centralized planning.

 

[wihosa]

Nobody likes to pay taxes and no tax system can ever be perfectly fair, but this idea that if we just keep cutting taxes everything will be fine is foolish. We've been trying it for thirty years.

Where we are is the result.

 

[wihosa]

so johnnyrocks
for nearly fifty years we had expanding employment, rising wages and broad based prosperity and then we tried Reaganomics for the last thitry years, but somehow it was that time when things were good that is at fault?

 

[wihosa]

The problem with righties is they just believe in Reaganomics because they do, it's a faith based thing I guess.

 

[Synthaholic]

Dems good, Repubs bad. Got it.

Keep it simple and uncomplicated. There's no reason for you to hurt your brain trying to keep up with the adult conversation.

Don't worry - we'll keep patting you on the head for the attempt.

 

[boedicca]

Let's take a look at the real problem.

In 2007, the Federal Budget was $2.8T with tax receipts of $2.5T. The planned deficit was $244B - in and of itself a problem, but not an overwhelming one.

The Dems took control of Congress in 2008. The inevitable financial crisis due to FM/FM/Hud finally came to a head. Obama was elected.

In 2010, the Federal budget includes $3.6T of spending and $2.4T of revenues. In three years, revenue is lower by $100M, but spending has been increased $800B. The actual deficit is projected to be worse than budget due to the government spending beyond budget levels and anemic tax receipts because the economy is growing far less than forecasted. They don't even have the honesty to present a budget bill for the upcoming cycle.

The problem is not that we are undertaxed. The problem is that the government SPENDS TOO MUCH FRELLING MONEY. There is no justification for increasing spending by over 30% in a three year period with low inflation.

 

[wihosa]

boedicca

You think that after Obama became President that the deficit shot up because "he was spending wildly".
The fact is that the defict shot up because he said we were not going to keep the cost of the wars off budget. In other words when we finally started accounting for Bush's wars we found out that we were actually way more in deficit.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Hmm...you are concentrating on one page of the multi-volume book entitled "how America ruined themselves".
Expand your mind.
There is a greater story beyond red vs blue.

Of course it's no "Complete History" of the last 30 years, it's a message board post. It is a short couple of paragraphs that clearly conveys an aspect or two of the thoughts of an earthling.

Agree or disagree, it's a hell of a post.

I happen to agree. I think that a world run by and for "big business" is not the future I want for my descendants. I also believe that RESPONSIBLE large and very large organizations of economic endeavor are going to be in our planets future because evolution dictates that anything that can feed as many life forms as large business operations can will survive and thrive. Survival of the species dictates that those endeavors be responsible. Look at BP versus Exxon - People don't shy away from BP fuel because We, The Shareholders, are taking responsibility for the fuck up in spite of the whining done by those of us with a lot of shares.

As the average Joe buys and acquires stock and ownership of the planets resources, including the resource of organized economic endeavor, earth gets closer and closer to becoming the World, whose children will reach for the stars, that (insert your preferred Deity here) intended.

Reganomics was just the beginning of the end of the pendulum of evolution swinging out to embrace a tool as it creates a Sentient World from a planet of beasts. Fun ride, eh?

 

[wihosa]

ave joe

It is exactly your point on a world run by big business for big business that our country with a "Government of, by, and for the People" was intended to guard against.

 

[jpgisbostrat]

... going to a flat tax.. cutting spending dramatically, trashing Obamacare, the U.S. Dept of Education, the U.S. Department of Energy, etc., etc. as well as dramatically reducing entitlements, SSI payments for stumping one's toe...

Of course. Me me me me.

My favorite is the not one mention of cutting that 63% of military spending. Exactly. Let's ruin this country's population base to the point of a near class war.

 

[Flopper]

With Republican efforts to destroy the unions and eliminate minimum wage, their goals become quite clear, a fully employed America with wages a fraction of what they are today. America manufacturing will then be able to compete with China and third world countries. Workers will of course have to make a few sacrifices.