Oregon, a Renewable Welfare State

[mdn2000]

Oregon is a renewable welfare state, in the worst recession in the history of the United States Oregon is going to increase the size of government and bureacracy all to rape the taxpayers of the entire United States.

On top of this Oregon is taxing existing industry to give subsidies and grants to "renewable energy".

For Oregon, lobbying and taking our tax money from the Obama White house is not enough,

For Oregon giving tax breaks to Renewable Energy is not enough.

For Oregon taxing fossil fuel is not enough

For Oregon passing rules, laws, and regulations mandating Renewable energy is not enough.

Oregon is mandating through law higher electrical rates for consumers.

Not even all this is enough, environmental studies are waved, EPA regulations are waived, all so Renewable energy can make the rich, richer.

Thanks Old Crock.

What is real funny is this website calls itself sustainable, sustaining itself out of my pocket.

OIT lands $2.5M stimulus funding for renewable energy program - Sustainable Business Oregon

Thursday, April 8, 2010, 12:45pm PDT | Modified: April 8, 2010, 1:03 PM
OIT lands $2.5M stimulus funding for renewable energy program
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U.S. Secretary of Energy Steven Chu announced Thursday that the Department of Energy is awarding nearly $100 million for 54 smart grid workforce training programs, including $2.5 million for the Oregon Institute of Technology’s renewable energy engineering program.

The money will go toward strengthening OIT’s bachelor’s program and adding a master’s program in the renewable energy engineering discipline, and enhancing hands-on opportunities for students in areas such as power-system modeling and analysis, distributed power systems, power conditioning and utility-focused energy storage.

The OIT program falls under the Department of Energy’s workforce training initiative for the electric power sector, which received $41.6 million of the stimulus funding announced Thursday. Smart grid workforce training received $57.7 million.

Oregon Institute of Technology is based in Klamath Falls but its renewable energy engineering program got its start at the university's Portland-area campus.

The stimulus grant will allow the university to hire five additional faculty — three in Portland and two in Klamath Falls. The grant will also fund five power labs and a part-time coordinato

 

[JiggsCasey]

I'd call them the only state in the union right now that openly acknowledges what is coming. So good for them.

But, what a load of pretentious pap before you got to the meat of your gripe: The story itself ... Please link to what you're talking about with "EPA regulations being waved."

How can guys like you lose your mind over the extrapolation of a 100 million "out of your pocket" and never bat an eye at the $630 billion "out of your pocket" for the Pentagon every year? Or the half a trillion in drug profits laundered through corporate banks every year? No outrage there, huh? Perhaps the coke and opium crops can start a direct revenue stream for the Pentagon, and we can cut out the middle man.

Where are your priorities, exactly? This is the best you have to complain about? Renewable energy initiative? Seriously?

This is the kind of stuff you guys complain about every day, while your ideological heroes cook books and eliminate oversight for exponentially more wasteful "pet projects."

Read a book.

 

[mdn2000]

I'd call them the only state in the union right now that openly acknowledges what is coming. So good for them.

But, what a load of pretentious pap before you got to the meat of your gripe: The story itself ... Please link to what you're talking about with "EPA regulations being waved."

How can guys like you lose your mind over the extrapolation of a 100 million "out of your pocket" and never bat an eye at the $630 billion "out of your pocket" for the Pentagon every year? Or the half a trillion in drug profits laundered through corporate banks every year? No outrage there, huh? Perhaps the coke and opium crops can start a direct revenue stream for the Pentagon, and we can cut out the middle man.

Where are your priorities, exactly? This is the best you have to complain about? Renewable energy initiative? Seriously?

This is the kind of stuff you guys complain about every day, while your ideological heroes cook books and eliminate oversight for exponentially more wasteful "pet projects."

Read a book.

My priorities, glad you asked, having enough money in my pocket to buy food and clothes which gets harder and harder the more Jiggs reaches in and takes what Jiggs wants. Why should I have my money taken to make a measly 22 mega watts at a cost of billions, nice how Jiggs reduces the cost to a few million not even offering a thread of proof but let a conservative such as I, the Electrical Power Research Institute Analyst, I the person who works inside Geothermal plants, I say inside as in literally physically my body inside of the components, yes let me state the EPA regulations are thrown out and Jiggs demands a link.

Where is your peak oil theory link,

Whats wrong Jiggs, you still aint found a thread for your peak oil theory, I challenged you and you came up empty, you would not provide a link or even a name, all you did was point me to a post or two that did not even address peak oil.

So now you pretend you know something about Geothermal energy, you know something about Renewable Energy. Prove it, you do not know anything except responding with anger and obfuscation.

Instead of addressing anything I post you want to talk about the Drug war and the Pentagon.

The 25 Best Ann Coulter Quotes About Liberals | Right Wing News

6) If you can somehow force a liberal into a point-counterpoint argument, his retorts will bear no relation to what you've said -- unless you were in fact talking about your looks, your age, your weight, your personal obsessions, or whether you are a fascist. In the famous liberal two-step, they leap from one idiotic point to the next, so you can never nail them. It's like arguing with someone with Attention Deficit Disorder

 

[mdn2000]

You know what is pretty stupid of the Renewable Energy believers, that they believe Renewable Energy grows on trees.

It is undeniable that Renewable Energy cost more money to build and makes less profit, why.

Because you have to make more materials, if you make more materials you need to use more energy.

Renewable energy uses more energy to build, you never recoup the lost. The power output is too little.

 

[mdn2000]

Being an EPRI analyst I also do inspection and aquire date for other analyst and engineers, I have inspected and acquired data from these pipes

http://www.specialmetalswelding.com/papers/GRIFFIN%20ARTICLE.pdf

A witch’s cauldron
Entering the borehole at roughly 300ºC and 40 bar, the superheated brine is a
witch’s brew of two phase liquid/vapor and dispersed solids. The chemical
combination of chlorides, hydrogen sulfide, and carbon dioxide make this
one of the most abrasive, corrosive potpourris imaginable. Typical samples test at pH 4.5 – 5.7, with chloride
concentrations of 106,000 – 167,000 ppm, H2 S of 10 – 50 ppm, and CO2 of 800 – 4800 ppm. Dissolved solids constitute 25% of the saturated brine
solution. Liquid phase silica precipitation occurs readily at
temperatures below 205ºC – making deposition and scaling a constant concern. Battling corrosion
When George Furmanski arrived at CalEnergy in 2001, the battle against
corrosion was well underway. At that point, ongoing experiments with
cement lined carbon steel pipe were producing mixed results. While an
excellent solution in steady state thermal conditions, the widely differing
expansion coefficients of steel and cement inevitably produced cracks and
voids – particularly in the critical high temperature/high pressure turbine feed
network. Even with summer ambient temperatures routinely reaching 50ºC,
the thermal shock associated with duty cycling 245ºC feed lines was simply too
great. And once a cement liner is breached, the SA 106 carbon steel
32mm wall x 76cm diameter pipe material erodes at a rate of up to 1.3 mm
per month, reducing effective service life to two years or les

I thought I could attach the picture but I cannot for some reason.

Anyone who doubts my EPA waived claim must look at the photos in this link, that brine leaking all over is full of Arsenic, I know, I worked here, I can post a MSDS sheet that attests to Arsenic, Selenium, Cobalt 60, etc. I even got an Arsenic burn to my ass when I kind of sat in the shit while working.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Oregon has one of the nation's worst unemployment rates. And yes, we did raise taxes last year. And I don't see it getting any better any time soon.

 

[mdn2000]

The problem with Renewable energy advocates is they read an article and think they know the subject. If all your doing is linking, your not thinking.

I work in Geothermal plants hence I know the topics to research and thus can sift through the fluff to the meat of the subject.

The above post of mine I linked and quoted the output of U.S. Geothermal inc.'s proposed project. 22 mega watts. Is that the actual output, no, not in the least. We do not know what the output will be. What we do know is the corporation (and remember all corporations are evil except the ones liberals like) is posting the output that will be most favorable.

So what is "capacity", do those who link to articles really understand what they are being led to believe by the author of the article, do they even know the articles are paid advertisements, press releases, or just good ole marketing. Do they know who paid to control the "keywords" that direct searches to what they want the public to believe.

So what is capacity and is the article being truthful?

http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~dorpjr/Publications/ConferenceProceedings/GRC2006.pdf

oPotential Improvements to Existing Geothermal Facilities in California,
Valentino Tiangco and Pablo Gutiérrez-Santana
GeothermEx, Inc.
George Washington University California Energy Commission

Definitions of Capacity
Another difficulty in assessing potential improvements in these facilities
stems from a lack of consistency in published descriptions of plant capacities. This study has attempted to clarify this situation by distinguishing between
several different definitions of plant capacity. For the purposes of this study:

• Original capacity is the amount of power a plant was originally designed to produce, at specified conditions of geo-fluid supply. It is equivalent to the turbine manufacturer’s “nameplate” or “rated” capacity, expressed in gross megawatts (MW-gross), neglecting equipment modifications subsequent to initial construction.

• Electro-mechanical capacity is the amount of power (expressed in MW-gross) that a plant is capable of producing on a sustained basis without damage to the equipment, given a sufficient supply of geofluid. Because plant equipment is typically designed to accommodate a range of geofluid conditions (including conditions more favorable than the nominal design conditions), the electro-mechanical capacity is generally expected to be higher than the original apacity. Exceptions would include
plants that have been physically altered (for instance, by a turbine modification) so that the electro-mechanical capacity is now lower than
when the plant was first constructed. In the current study, if there was no independent information on which to base a higher or lower estimate of
the electro-mechanical capacity for a particular plant, the electro-mechanical capacity was assumed to be equal to the original capacity.

• 2005 Capacity is the amount of power a plant could produce as of
2005, taking into account equipment modifications and limitations of geo-
fluid supply, as acknowledged by the operator. It can be expressed in either
MW-gross or MW-net, the difference between the two being the parasitic
power needed to run the plant.

• Actual annual average power is the annual electrical energy generated in
a representative recent year (minus the parasitic energy used to run the
plant), divided by the number of hours in the year. The actual annual average power is expressed in MW-net

 

[JiggsCasey]

My priorities, glad you asked, having enough money in my pocket to buy food and clothes which gets harder and harder the more Jiggs reaches in and takes what Jiggs wants. Why should I have my money taken to make a measly 22 mega watts at a cost of billions, nice how Jiggs reduces the cost to a few million not even offering a thread of proof but let a conservative such as I, the Electrical Power Research Institute Analyst, I the person who works inside Geothermal plants, I say inside as in literally physically my body inside of the components, yes let me state the EPA regulations are thrown out and Jiggs demands a link.

Uh huh. Based on your wanting grasp of basic energy issues, I'm gonna call further BS on this claim, cool guy. Perhaps you're the janitor?

Where is your peak oil theory link,

Whats wrong Jiggs, you still aint found a thread for your peak oil theory, I challenged you and you came up empty, you would not provide a link or even a name, all you did was point me to a post or two that did not even address peak oil.

My God, are you ever a noodle. So by that gorilla logic, if you demanded for "a link" defining photosynthesis, and I didn't bother outlining something so obvious and accepted, would that somehow mean that plants don't feed off carbon dioxide? LOL. Are you so helpless that you can't educate yourself on a widely-accepted geological fact? I've provided video which you've refused to watch. I've linked to the IEA report, the Joint Chiefs' JOE report, and many others confirming and explaining peak. You can lead a jackass to links, but I guess you can't make them read or watch.

Look it up, take your pick of whatever source you like. It's no secret, dumbass.

If you still insist on faking ignorant and being spoonfed, very well. ... For the 300th time: Peak oil simply refers to the period in history where global light crude production reaches its apex before beginning slow, yet terminal decline. Such a scenario most certainly signifies the end of growth, and the overwhelming evidence supports that peak is here.

 

[mdn2000]

My priorities, glad you asked, having enough money in my pocket to buy food and clothes which gets harder and harder the more Jiggs reaches in and takes what Jiggs wants. Why should I have my money taken to make a measly 22 mega watts at a cost of billions, nice how Jiggs reduces the cost to a few million not even offering a thread of proof but let a conservative such as I, the Electrical Power Research Institute Analyst, I the person who works inside Geothermal plants, I say inside as in literally physically my body inside of the components, yes let me state the EPA regulations are thrown out and Jiggs demands a link.

Uh huh. Based on your wanting grasp of basic energy issues, I'm gonna call further BS on this claim, cool guy. Perhaps you're the janitor?

Where is your peak oil theory link,

Whats wrong Jiggs, you still aint found a thread for your peak oil theory, I challenged you and you came up empty, you would not provide a link or even a name, all you did was point me to a post or two that did not even address peak oil.

My God, are you ever a noodle. If you asked for a link defining photosynthesis, and I didn't bother outlining something so obvious and accepted, would that somehow mean that plants don't feed off carbon dioxide? LOL. Are you so helpless that you can't educate yourself on a widely-accepted geological fact?

Chryst, the IEA just admitted it with their latest annual report.

Look it up, take your pick of whatever source you like. It's no secret, dumbass.

If you still insist on faking ignorant and being spoonfed, very well. ... For the 300th time: Peak oil simply refers to the period in history where global light crude production reaches its apex before beginning slow, yet terminal decline. Such a scenario most certainly signifies the end of growth, and the overwhelming evidence supports that peak is here.

Your the one who kept talking about this Peak Oil theory, I thought you read the actual theory, not the press release, I wanted to see it, then debate it, thats all, so you read articles. Big deal.

Right now I am analyzing data from the primary coolant system of a nuclear reactor, specifically the heat exchanger, there is a industry wide problem, pwscc, that is primary water stress corrosion cracking. At this particular plant its associated with denting at the top of the tubesheets. Along with the denting there is a sledge pile that attributes to the problem as well. This is occuring in Iconell 600, the replacement heat exchangers utilize Icnonell 690. The only problem thus far with Icononell 690 is fretting at the tube supports and anti-vibration bars.

 

[mdn2000]

At Geothermal plants I did field work for the Analyst and Engineers. I have done visual inspection of replacement piping, a simple job even Jiggs could do, I had to get on my belly, on a skateboard and creep along the inside of the pipes, replacement pipes and inspect the cement lining for cracks or chips.

I also did Ultrasound thickness gauging of the pipes, lots of corrosion on the inner diameters.

I also acquired data on the inside of a vertical heat exchanger, I guided the probe into the tubes while another man operated the probe pusher from the outside. I had to sit on a board made of wood, the heat exchanger is 50' high. I had to be confined spaced trained to enter as it is an oxygen deficient environment. Confined spaces kill all the time due to the lack of oxygen so they have a safety tech measure the level of oxygen, off the top of my head I think less than 18% or 17% in when you die, I forget though. At the Salton Sea Geothermal plants I had to wear a respirator and a rubber rain suit. The respirator was to protect me from the Arsenic, the brine that comes from the geothermal well is loaded with Arsenic. After they opened the heat exchanger and it dried out the Arsenic was a dust in the air. The plant ANST Level III thought he was doing me a favor when he convinced Safety I did not need the rain-suit, he got me a white paper suit instead, I had the great idea of washing the Arsenic out of the air from the top of the heat exchanger, we were acquiring the data from the outlet on the bottom, where the board I sat on. The respirators are not a 100% efficient, I know these things because I had to be respirator qualified when I "Jumped" into the heat exchangers inside the nuclear power plants, you also need a pulmonary function test, so I got the Arsenic washed out of the air, I could see it as dust. It was being absorbed in the rubber of the respirator which gave us a rash where the rubber touched our face. The board got saturated with arsenic, which eventually made it through the paper suit, the burn to my ass was just a little warm, two days later, I noticed after about three days, I went to the doctor, he had to call the Poison center I believe in Atlanta, they said it was no big deal, Arsenic was not absorbed threw skin and would only penetrate a couple layers of skin. The end result was like a bad sunburn in which my ass peeled kind of heavy.

The geothermal plants at the south end of the salton sea are surrounded by asparagus fields, migratory birds and billions of crickets, it was cool to watch the crickets die as they found their way into the water puddle underneath the heat exchanger. I always wondered about the crickets that tracked the arsenic on their legs and found themselves ate by the birds.

anyhow I could go on and on about my job.

I have some stories about working in Beaumont texas at the Exxon Mobile Hydro-cracker as well.

 

[JiggsCasey]

Your the one who kept talking about this Peak Oil theory, I thought you read the actual theory, not the press release, I wanted to see it, then debate it, thats all, so you read articles. Big deal.

In other words, you knew you could have figured out basic peak oil summation for yourself, like anyone could, but instead you needed to be a jackass about it so you could stall from actually answering the ultimate question as long as possible.

 

[mdn2000]

How about some reactor head inspection using ultrasound and eddy current, I was trained in Windsor Connecticut by Westdyne which is a part of Westinghouse, I did some baseline inspections in Cambridge Canada at Babcox and Wilcox.

Seems the penetration tubes suffered corrosion, Davis Besse was the first plant identified with the problem. The problem was identified to be from a manufacturing site in Belgium I believe. Its been a bit of time so I forget the details. Iconell 600 pipes, in which the reactor control rods are inserted, they are welded to the Carbon reactor head, the welding rod material was were the problem was, dissimilar materials are always a problem.

My first Nuclear reactor job was in Palisades Michigan, that is where I jumped the generator to install the SM-4 robotic fixture that Zetec designed and built, you have to enter the heat exchanger through the manway wearing a plastic bubble suit. It has a hose for air. The inside of the bowl is tiny, I could not stand, and like a bowl it was round so I was cramped on the curvature of the bowl, there is a dividing plate in the center of the bowl, and the tubesheet above my head. The inlet water enters the bowl, goes into the tubes through the tubesheet, up and around the ubend of the tubes and out the opposite side of the divider plate and back to the reactor. Think of this as a giant radiator. Being the primary cool system for the reactor it is extremely radioactive thus I had a strict time limit which was monitored by Health Physics. I could only spend a little over 6 minutes in the radiation according to NRC rules which are strictly enforced. I had radio dosimeters so that they could monitor me from the outside.

It took two people to install the SM-4 robot, me inside, a man outside handing in the robot, first came the tubesheet templates that had numbers to identify the tubes, there was about 3500 tubes, I would hold them against the top of the tubesheet and use a rubber plug to hold them in place.

Anyhow that is how I started in the industry. Coincidently when they were removing the reactor head a fuel rod got stuck to the bottom, deadly, deadly, deadly, the reactor is literally in a pool of water during maintenance, boronated water, water being heavy in hydrogen is a natural neutron absorber, the boron is also a neutron absorber, they use this to control the fission along with the control rods that are inserted between the fuel rods through the reactor head. So they fill the pool up with water for maintenance and use a fuel fixture to transfer the fuel rods to the fuel canal that takes the fuel rods to the spent fuel pool. When they removed the reactor head one fuel rod was stuck, third time in the industry this happened. A health physics tech stopped the crane operator from removing the head from the water which saved everyones life. The radiation would of killed everyone in containment.

So what do you do Jiggs.

 

[mdn2000]

Jiggs, theory is not fact, link to the theory and I will show and explain to you how they just do not know. If I am not reading and discussing the exact paper you have seen, or the scientist that wrote the paper there is no debate, there is nothing to go on. One needs the technical papers which are sometimes very difficult to find. Nothing is proven when it comes to theory and all scientists are smart enough to state that in their papers.

 

[mdn2000]

And further more, how about a photo, I am in the yellow bubble suit inside Palo Verde Nuclear Power plant. I dont remember which unit. Thats not a bubble suit, that is just the typical nuke worker outfit, I am the tall idiot standing, rapped in plastic is our computer equipment that acquires the data and controls the robotic fixture.

 

[JiggsCasey]

So what do you do Jiggs.

I write about global flow rates, macro-economics and how the environment, energy and the economy are all intrinsically linked.

I could go into a long, pretentious babble about the minutiae of my industry, but it's not gonna convince anyone of anything.

The point is that based on the subject matter we cover in most every thread here, and the links from international entities supporting my assertions regarding that subject matter, I appear to have a much firmer and more honest grasp of the predicament complex nations face due to the very real energy crisis on our doorstep than you, who's allegedly IN the energy industry.

Further, and this is very important: I have no illusions that green energy will do much of anything to save us. Zero. I'm well aware that green initiative will only mitigate the problem to some degree. So please keep that in mind the next time you try to straw man my platform on the greater energy issue. It would allow us to cut the crap right away.

 

[mdn2000]

So what do you do Jiggs.

I write about global flow rates, macro-economics and how the environment, energy and the economy are all intrinsically linked.

I could go into a long, pretentious babble about the minutiae of my industry, but it's not gonna convince anyone of anything.

The point is that I appear to have a much firmer and more honest grasp of the predicament complex nations face due to the very real energy crisis on our doorstep.

Further, and this is very important: I have no illusions that green energy will do much of anything to save us. Zero. I'm well aware that green initiative will only mitigate the problem to some degree. So please keep that in mind the next time you straw man my platform on the greater energy issue. Thanks.

If you know so much you would know it takes energy to make your green fantasy, the fact that it takes more money means it takes more of that precious oil you know so much about. Those large amounts of money buy large amounts of things. The more things you got, the more oil it took to make them.

You have a firmer grasp yet I am the one in the industry. From Oil refineries to Geothermal plants, Nuclear power is my specialty, Refineries has been a minor part of my career but a part none the less. I go above and beyond in my education, I study all aspects of energy. I follow energy news, energy trends, industry events.

I work with engineers and scientist, I analyze data at this point in my career, I prefer the field work, its a lot more fun than analyzing data. This job is slow so I have the opportunistic to have a bit of fun here.

I am not here to convince Jiggs, I am here just to share a bit of my knowledge of what I have done and learned of the energy industry for the last 22 years.

Geothermal due to the corrosive nature of the brine and the corrosive energy of steam destroys 1000's of tons of material on an annual basis, I know because I am the one the industry comes to when they have problems.

Working with the NRC while inspecting Nuclear power plants educated my about rules and regulations.

Working in Geothermal is a joke, there are no rules or regulations, thats how I got an arsenic burn to my ass. The EPA gives a free pass to Geothermal. Anything but Nuke.

Geothermal is toxic nasty, I have seen men wearing space suits vacuuming roads with giant trucks, pretty scary, pretty dirty rotten to be unregulated, I have seen trucks driven down the road loaded with unregulated toxic waste from geothermal plants.

Will we run out of oil, time will tell, one day there will be no humans in the universe, everything comes to an end, when there is no oil, there is no renewable energy, there is no green energy, nothing on earth is renewable, everything needs replacing, Green energy needs replacing long before nuclear reactors. I know, that is my job, extending the life of components, from inspection, acquiring data, analyzing data using a variety of methods I help determine the longevity and reliability of components.

Green energy depletes the earths resources at a extremely fast rate, faster than any other type of power plant.

 

[mdn2000]

Where is OLD CROCK, I saw him posting in environment.

I must leave boards for I am traveling from Madrid Spain to Los Angeles and two day following I will travel from Los Angeles to Brazil.

It will bug me to know while I am on a tropical beach drinking Skol (beer), watching thousands of young women in tiny Brazilian thongs, the jerks will be getting in the last word.

Boy, thats going to bug me the next two months, no worries though, I may check in from time to time.

 

[Old Rocks]

Tribute to M. King Hubbert

 

[JiggsCasey]

If you know so much you would know it takes energy to make your green fantasy, the fact that it takes more money means it takes more of that precious oil you know so much about.

I'll make this succinct so that you can get back to arguing with straw men.

Show me where I once suggested I adhered to any "green fantasy" when it comes to our energy crisis? Have I even been a proponent of the industry? I've barely made mention of it.

That's because I know it won't save our dying paradigm, and never claimed it would.

All I've ultimately said is that we are AT the plateau of peak, globalization is over, and our world is soon going to be getting a whole lot smaller, whether we like it or not.

Try and keep track of who you're arguing with, and what their position is. Might help you a lot.

 

[Old Rocks]

Just for mdn, here in Oregon we are building another wind farm, funded already, nearly 900 mw.