Oregon, a Renewable Welfare State

If you know so much you would know it takes energy to make your green fantasy, the fact that it takes more money means it takes more of that precious oil you know so much about.

I'll make this succinct so that you can get back to arguing with straw men.

Show me where I once suggested I adhered to any "green fantasy" when it comes to our energy crisis? Have I even been a proponent of the industry? I've barely made mention of it.

That's because I know it won't save our dying paradigm, and never claimed it would.

All I've ultimately said is that we are AT the plateau of peak, globalization is over, and our world is soon going to be getting a whole lot smaller, whether we like it or not.

Try and keep track of who you're arguing with, and what their position is. Might help you a lot.

Talk about Strawman arguments, I guess with you I have to be very specific and quote only a tiny portion of what you post otherwise you can dodge and weasel your way out.

. I'm well aware that green initiative will only mitigate the problem to some degree.

That is pure "Green Fantasy".

If you care to apply your macro-intelligence and show how this is not fantasy, feel free, otherwise ignore the post as all strawmen will ignore the facts.
 
So what do you do Jiggs.

I write about global flow rates, macro-economics and how the environment, energy and the economy are all intrinsically linked.

I could go into a long, pretentious babble about the minutiae of my industry, but it's not gonna convince anyone of anything.

The point is that based on the subject matter we cover in most every thread here, and the links from international entities supporting my assertions regarding that subject matter, I appear to have a much firmer and more honest grasp of the predicament complex nations face due to the very real energy crisis on our doorstep than you, who's allegedly IN the energy industry.

Further, and this is very important: I have no illusions that green energy will do much of anything to save us. Zero. I'm well aware that green initiative will only mitigate the problem to some degree. So please keep that in mind the next time you try to straw man my platform on the greater energy issue. It would allow us to cut the crap right away.

I'm well aware that green initiative will only mitigate the problem to some degree.

How, how about proof or a microsoft paint type graph
 
MDN,

Have you had any experience out at the China Lake NWC geothermal plant? I knew Dr. Carl Austin who was the man behind the project for many years. I visited the small plant (it was supposed to produce around 20MW if memory serves) at Coso Hot Springs in 1987 or 1988 (can't remember the exact date anymore) and the plant was up and running but as you so eloquently put it corrosion was a huge issue. They had pipes needing replacement within months of emplacement.

I know they were supposed to develop the main plant on the eastern tract that was supposed to produce around 250 MW but I think the best they've been able to get was around 190 MW as of 1993 or so.
 
http://www.geothermal.org/articles/California.pdf

Coso Geothermal Field
Located within the China Lake U.S. Naval Air Weapons Station near Ridgecrest, CA, power plants at the Coso Geothermal Field are currently operated by Caithness Energy, LLC (Reno, NV). The
field’s reservoir is in a Mesozoic granitic/metamorphic complex underlying the Quaternary Coso Volcanic Field. It currently produces 270 MW from four geothermal power plants. More than 100
wells have been drilled throughout the field, with production depths from 2,000 to 12,000 feet, and temperatures from 200° to 350°C. Coso began generating electricity in 1987. Since then, improvements
have resulted in more efficient use of the resource.

Together with an annual drilling program, these improvements have helped keep the geothermal field producing far above its contract capacity of 210 MW. Future improvements to the field’s injection system, injection augmentation, and relocation of injection fluids to mine heat from the margins of the resource (where there are high temperatures and low permeability) will help sustain the Coso resource
well into the future.

The latter effort is the subject of a DOEsponsored multidisciplinary study led by the University of Utah’s
Energy and Geosciences Institute. For more information on the Coso Geothermal Field and its power operations, refer to “Model for Success,” on page 186 of this issue of the GRC Bulletin.
 
Locating differant sources of power, in this cast, geo-thermal and solar, in the same area is the best way to cut the costs of alternatives, as much of the cost is in building tranmission lines.

Harper Lake Solar Electric Generating Station

This is the largest, in output, commercial solar power plant in the world, generating around 160 megawatts at its peak. It is one of three separately owned sites within 40 miles of one another, that make up the nine solar fields in the Solar Electric Generating System (SEGS). Harper Lake was the last of these built, and is designated as SEGS 8 and 9. Together the facilities can generate about 354 megawatts at peak output, comprising mostof the commercial solar power currently produced worldwide. These solar facilities are referred to as "advantageous peak facilities", as they operate at their peak when it is sunniest, which is also when local power requirements are greatest, due to increased air conditioning demand. The facilities regulate their power supply through the use of supplemental natural gas fueled electric generating plants. This plant was built on top of the remains of the aircraft R&D area at Harper Lake, which included facilities owned by Howard Hughes, and Northrop, which tested flying wing aircraft out of Harper Lake. Also on the grounds of the Solar Plant (and razed for the construction of the plant) is the site of much of the town of Lockhart, which was known for its beef cattle industry.
Not open to the public, but the fenced-off arrays are visible from public roads. Located on the south west edge of Harper Dry Lake, at the end of Harper Lake Road, a few miles north of Route 58. Ruins of ranches surround the plant, and on the north-west side of the plant is a ruin of an additional solar plant that was never finished.
 
Locating differant sources of power, in this cast, geo-thermal and solar, in the same area is the best way to cut the costs of alternatives, as much of the cost is in building tranmission lines.

Harper Lake Solar Electric Generating Station

This is the largest, in output, commercial solar power plant in the world, generating around 160 megawatts at its peak. It is one of three separately owned sites within 40 miles of one another, that make up the nine solar fields in the Solar Electric Generating System (SEGS). Harper Lake was the last of these built, and is designated as SEGS 8 and 9. Together the facilities can generate about 354 megawatts at peak output, comprising mostof the commercial solar power currently produced worldwide. These solar facilities are referred to as "advantageous peak facilities", as they operate at their peak when it is sunniest, which is also when local power requirements are greatest, due to increased air conditioning demand. The facilities regulate their power supply through the use of supplemental natural gas fueled electric generating plants. This plant was built on top of the remains of the aircraft R&D area at Harper Lake, which included facilities owned by Howard Hughes, and Northrop, which tested flying wing aircraft out of Harper Lake. Also on the grounds of the Solar Plant (and razed for the construction of the plant) is the site of much of the town of Lockhart, which was known for its beef cattle industry.
Not open to the public, but the fenced-off arrays are visible from public roads. Located on the south west edge of Harper Dry Lake, at the end of Harper Lake Road, a few miles north of Route 58. Ruins of ranches surround the plant, and on the north-west side of the plant is a ruin of an additional solar plant that was never finished.

supplemental natural gas fueled electric generating plants

Maybe you can explain why the best solar in the world needs a natural gas power plant. If the best needs this what do second, third, and the fourth best sites need, supplemental Nuclear power.

Every post you have made, which is dozens of power plants still do not equal one nuclear power plant. Given we have sites all ready approved, reactors of proven design, new reactors that for the first time will that can and are mass produced, tomorrow we could replace every singly waste of energy site you have listed.

Its all politics, lawyers, grants to universities, subsidies to foreign companies and higher prices to the United States citizen that pays for this.
 
http://www.geothermal.org/articles/California.pdf

Coso Geothermal Field
Located within the China Lake U.S. Naval Air Weapons Station near Ridgecrest, CA, power plants at the Coso Geothermal Field are currently operated by Caithness Energy, LLC (Reno, NV). The
field’s reservoir is in a Mesozoic granitic/metamorphic complex underlying the Quaternary Coso Volcanic Field. It currently produces 270 MW from four geothermal power plants. More than 100
wells have been drilled throughout the field, with production depths from 2,000 to 12,000 feet, and temperatures from 200° to 350°C. Coso began generating electricity in 1987. Since then, improvements
have resulted in more efficient use of the resource.

Together with an annual drilling program, these improvements have helped keep the geothermal field producing far above its contract capacity of 210 MW. Future improvements to the field’s injection system, injection augmentation, and relocation of injection fluids to mine heat from the margins of the resource (where there are high temperatures and low permeability) will help sustain the Coso resource
well into the future.

The latter effort is the subject of a DOEsponsored multidisciplinary study led by the University of Utah’s
Energy and Geosciences Institute. For more information on the Coso Geothermal Field and its power operations, refer to “Model for Success,” on page 186 of this issue of the GRC Bulletin.




Thanks for that olfraud, I suppose I could have done it myself but was too lazy! I see they had to open two new fields to get the power levels up. Seems to be doing OK though.
 
http://www.geothermal.org/articles/California.pdf

Coso Geothermal Field
Located within the China Lake U.S. Naval Air Weapons Station near Ridgecrest, CA, power plants at the Coso Geothermal Field are currently operated by Caithness Energy, LLC (Reno, NV). The
field’s reservoir is in a Mesozoic granitic/metamorphic complex underlying the Quaternary Coso Volcanic Field. It currently produces 270 MW from four geothermal power plants. More than 100
wells have been drilled throughout the field, with production depths from 2,000 to 12,000 feet, and temperatures from 200° to 350°C. Coso began generating electricity in 1987. Since then, improvements
have resulted in more efficient use of the resource.

Together with an annual drilling program, these improvements have helped keep the geothermal field producing far above its contract capacity of 210 MW. Future improvements to the field’s injection system, injection augmentation, and relocation of injection fluids to mine heat from the margins of the resource (where there are high temperatures and low permeability) will help sustain the Coso resource
well into the future.

The latter effort is the subject of a DOEsponsored multidisciplinary study led by the University of Utah’s
Energy and Geosciences Institute. For more information on the Coso Geothermal Field and its power operations, refer to “Model for Success,” on page 186 of this issue of the GRC Bulletin.

This is a failed geothermal project, even with pumping the commodity at taxpayer's expense into the dry wells.

Geothermal is renewable green energy, how.

Old Crock, I dont need you on my side, thanks for the help with the links.

Fitch Downgrades Coso Geothermal Power Holdings, LLC to 'B+'; Placed on Negative Watch - Yahoo! Finance

CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Fitch Ratings has downgraded the rating of Coso Geothermal Power Holdings, LLC's (CGP) pass-through trust certificates due 2026 to 'B+' from 'BBB-', and placed it on Rating Watch Negative.

Fitch was notified recently that CGP has experienced significant production declines due to a more accelerated rate of decline in reservoir pressure since mid 2010 compared to original expectations. The increase in the decline rate has more than offset the gains expected from the Hay Ranch water injection program and an extensive capital improvement program. In aggregate, production in 2010 is forecasted to be 1,611 GWh which is approximately 26% below original production estimates in 2007 of 2,184 GWh at the same time. The average net capacity of the facility is now forecasted to be approximately 195 MW with the benefit of the capital improvement program at the end of 2010 compared to the original capacity expectation in 2007 of 249 MW at the same time which was without the benefit of the capital improvement program. In addition, an eight-day transmission related force majeure event in October 2010 has contributed to the shortfall in production with a corresponding impact on the revenues.
 
http://www.geothermal.org/articles/California.pdf

Coso Geothermal Field
Located within the China Lake U.S. Naval Air Weapons Station near Ridgecrest, CA, power plants at the Coso Geothermal Field are currently operated by Caithness Energy, LLC (Reno, NV). The
field’s reservoir is in a Mesozoic granitic/metamorphic complex underlying the Quaternary Coso Volcanic Field. It currently produces 270 MW from four geothermal power plants. More than 100
wells have been drilled throughout the field, with production depths from 2,000 to 12,000 feet, and temperatures from 200° to 350°C. Coso began generating electricity in 1987. Since then, improvements
have resulted in more efficient use of the resource.

Together with an annual drilling program, these improvements have helped keep the geothermal field producing far above its contract capacity of 210 MW. Future improvements to the field’s injection system, injection augmentation, and relocation of injection fluids to mine heat from the margins of the resource (where there are high temperatures and low permeability) will help sustain the Coso resource
well into the future.

The latter effort is the subject of a DOEsponsored multidisciplinary study led by the University of Utah’s
Energy and Geosciences Institute. For more information on the Coso Geothermal Field and its power operations, refer to “Model for Success,” on page 186 of this issue of the GRC Bulletin.

This is a failed geothermal project, even with pumping the commodity at taxpayer's expense into the dry wells.

Geothermal is renewable green energy, how.

Old Crock, I dont need you on my side, thanks for the help with the links.

Fitch Downgrades Coso Geothermal Power Holdings, LLC to 'B+'; Placed on Negative Watch - Yahoo! Finance

CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Fitch Ratings has downgraded the rating of Coso Geothermal Power Holdings, LLC's (CGP) pass-through trust certificates due 2026 to 'B+' from 'BBB-', and placed it on Rating Watch Negative.

Fitch was notified recently that CGP has experienced significant production declines due to a more accelerated rate of decline in reservoir pressure since mid 2010 compared to original expectations. The increase in the decline rate has more than offset the gains expected from the Hay Ranch water injection program and an extensive capital improvement program. In aggregate, production in 2010 is forecasted to be 1,611 GWh which is approximately 26% below original production estimates in 2007 of 2,184 GWh at the same time. The average net capacity of the facility is now forecasted to be approximately 195 MW with the benefit of the capital improvement program at the end of 2010 compared to the original capacity expectation in 2007 of 249 MW at the same time which was without the benefit of the capital improvement program. In addition, an eight-day transmission related force majeure event in October 2010 has contributed to the shortfall in production with a corresponding impact on the revenues.





So that was the problem after all. Dr. Austin felt that their projections were a little on the high side. By drilling more wells they obviously overtaxed the formation therby dropping pressures across the board. That was what he thought might happen.
 
MDN,

Have you had any experience out at the China Lake NWC geothermal plant? I knew Dr. Carl Austin who was the man behind the project for many years. I visited the small plant (it was supposed to produce around 20MW if memory serves) at Coso Hot Springs in 1987 or 1988 (can't remember the exact date anymore) and the plant was up and running but as you so eloquently put it corrosion was a huge issue. They had pipes needing replacement within months of emplacement.

I know they were supposed to develop the main plant on the eastern tract that was supposed to produce around 250 MW but I think the best they've been able to get was around 190 MW as of 1993 or so.

I have not been to this plant, I have been to the plants only at the south end of the Salton Sea, Brawley and Calipatria.
 

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