Opt Out of Obamacare with Health Shares (3 companies referred to me)

[emilynghiem]

These three links are examples of Christian health share programs recommended to me
in order to be exempted from any other Obamacare regulations or penalties:

Liberty HealthShare

My Christian Care

Christian Healthcare Ministries: Home

Some of these companies offer bonuses for referrals. If you want to raise money for medical charities,
I would recommend whole churches to refer their members and donate the referrals to help pay medical costs
or membership costs for those less fortunate.

If anyone else wants to join the movement to get out of Obamacare completely,
these are some examples of religious health care sharing programs that qualify for exemption.

Does anyone else have referrals to add?
What about reviews of health sharing programs?
Please post freely.

Why Do Christians Want or need Health Insurance in the first place?

For the Christians who claim to believe that they have a personal relationship with Jesus and are cared for by a benevolent god, why do they need health insurance? Why avail themselves of modern medicine at all? Shouldn't prayer be sufficient?

How about this plan Emily : Under a revised ACH plan, rational normal people would receive health care at government expense just like what everyone receives in the counties with the highest quality health care systems. Christians and believers of other idiotic absurdities would automatically be placed on the Prayer Care Plan. This plan would not cost the government (or anyone else) anything at all. When believers got sick, they would pray for recovery. It's really that simple.

If you believe in the sort of god in which you claim to believe, why isn't prayer sufficient for you?

Hi guno and Dale Smith
Yes and no.
A. Spiritual Healing does work naturally and for free to restore the body and mind's self-healing process
by removing obstructions such as blockages from unforgiveness.
See resources posted at freespiritualhealing for the purpose of lobbying for medical research.
this Spiritual Healing method of forgiveness therapy to heal body mind and relationships
CAN and HAS been documented by medical resesarch before, and merely needs to be replicated
to show that FORGIVENESS in the therapy is what makes the process work, whether religious or secular.

B. Even with Spiritual Healing, this requires full treatment of body mind and spirit.
The treatment for the mind and treatment for the body are distinct and require separate processes.
Psychotherapy that works for the mind affects the body, but doesn't replace going to a heart or foot doctor.
These aren't interchangeable. They are all necessary for their respective fields, and ALL are needed.
it isn't either/or, but ALL OF THE ABOVE are needed to fully treat the whole person and all cases of illness.

C. Yes, Spiritual Healing would reduce the incidence and costs of diseases and ills of all kinds.
So yes, I would promote this as a healthy cost-effective natural and FREE choice.
That's why I have been pushing the proposal of replicating medical research, applying
Spiritual Healing to all cases and levels of conflict resolution, therapy and especially mental health treatment,
and documenting the results.

What I expect research studies to find is that
1. Forgiveness correlates with increased success and recovery rates of healing body mind and relationships
2. Unforgiveness and refusal to forgive correlates with longer or poorer rates of recovery and reconciliation of relationships

I believe the medical and sociological statistics will show a PATTERN
of correlation and proportion. So the more forgiving people are, the rates of reconciliation
and recovery are higher. The less forgiving people are, their rates are lower.

guno and Dale Smith
I do believe such medical research studies would effectively change
* mental health and health care
* prisons and medical institutions by addressing criminal illness like other diseases that have causes and cures
* relations between science and religion, so that people agree to work together to resolve social problems, regardless of belief, theist or nontheist, because forgiveness is the key not changing someone's affiliation
* religious and political conflicts once it is understood how forgiveness is the key to resolving conflicts
(instead of coercion, exclusion or bullying for one viewpoint to dominate another in politics, society or media)

 

[emilynghiem]

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

Dear Sun Devil 92 just calling ACA porn does not change the
mandates that have been costing people's income and money on their tax returns who can't afford that.

I cannot pay for both the monthly health insurance premiums required
AND pay for a vehicle I was covering for a nonprofit organization that needs it for youth and elderly programs.

So I either have to lose a vehicle and damage my credit
or get fined for not buying health insurance or buying a health share membership.

I cannot pay for both unless I get other sponsors or donors to pay the difference.

Are the premiums for these "health share memberships" (I wonder if y'all realize they're co-ops?) higher than they would be for a policy with an established insurer through the marketplace sites?

Arianrhod
It depends on your income level.
For many people the health shares are cheaper.
But limits on coverage as BULLDOG pointed out.

I was looking at either the 199 monthly membership under Liberty with the one time set up fee
and 75 annual membership after that. with 1,000,000 one million dollar coverage and 500 deductible,
or figure out what is the lowest option under Medi-Shares to compare which is cheaper monthly.

Or the lowest 45 a month Bronze plan under the CHM but they charge higher set up fees
and it has a 5,000 deductible per incident.

I was just looking to get by with the minimal to not pay fines until this mandate is removed
that violates Constitutional standards and beliefs.

But if I am going to pay money into any such program, I would want to invest in groups that would agree to expand to manage facilities for medical/nursing training, internships, and residencies to serve the public. If companies are willing to apply resources toward creating sustainable health services, I would want to invest my dollars there. The spiritual healing I would ask to research and provide there, in order to reduce costs as much as possible and serve the maximum people for free or low cost, could not be required through govt (except possibly in criminal cases), but it can be offered through private programs freely chosen by the public.

 

[Dale Smith]

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.



The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

True, but I love kicking the ever loving shit out of the Fabian socialists because they can't best me even on the best day that they ever had. I am a walking, talking encyclopedia of knowledge....it's what I do. all day and every day.

So, Encyclopedia Brown, which political flavor do you belong to?

Don't try and pigeon hole me, punkinpuss...both parties are bought and paid for by the banking oligarchs that control the purse strings of the Federal Reserve note/ fiat currency . I lean just left of center on some things and just right of center on others. I hate and despise neocons and Fabian socialists. The globalists have not had a better ally than the leftists and that is a fact. When the Club of Rome introduced their "zero growth plan" in 1970 that would kill industry in USA.INC and middle class jobs? The leftists couldn't jump on the envronmental bandwagon soon enough. I would slit the throat of a demcrat with glee and great rejoicing before I would ever toss any support their way.....and you can etch that in stone. My hatred for the uber left would make the most extremist muslim stop and stare....I hate the ultra left just that much because I know what they have done to this country. The Bush crime family and the Reaganites are pretty sorry...make no mistake about that...but the Fabian socialists run circles around them and I spit on them every chance I get....do ya hear me and can ya dig it???

 

[Arianrhod]

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.



The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

True, but I love kicking the ever loving shit out of the Fabian socialists because they can't best me even on the best day that they ever had. I am a walking, talking encyclopedia of knowledge....it's what I do. all day and every day.

So, Encyclopedia Brown, which political flavor do you belong to?

Don't try and pigeon hole me, punkinpuss...both parties are bought and paid for by the banking oligarchs that control the purse strings of the Federal Reserve note/ fiat currency . I lean just left of center on some things and just right of center on others. I hate and despise neocons and Fabian socialists. The globalists have not had a better ally than the leftists and that is a fact. When the Club of Rome introduced their "zero growth plan" in 1970 that would kill industry in USA.INC and middle class jobs? The leftists couldn't jump on the envronmental bandwagon soon enough. I would slit the throat of a demcrat with glee and great rejoicing before I would ever toss any support their way.....and you can etch that in stone. My hatred for the uber left would make the most extremist muslim stop and stare....I hate the ultra left just that much because I know what they have done to this country. The Bush crime family and the Reaganites are pretty sorry...make no mistake about that...but the Fabian socialists run circles around them and I spit on them every chance I get....do ya hear me and can ya dig it???

I asked a question; didn't realize it would make you go all paranoid, but at least you gave a thorough and interesting answer. Thank you.

 

[Arianrhod]

It depends on your income level.
For many people the health shares are cheaper.
But limits on coverage as BULLDOG pointed out.

Limits on coverage via the sources you’re considering, you mean. Because there are no limits on coverage with established insurers.

I was looking at either the 199 monthly membership under Liberty with the one time set up fee
and 75 annual membership after that. with 1,000,000 one million dollar coverage and 500 deductible,
or figure out what is the lowest option under Medi-Shares to compare which is cheaper monthly.

Or the lowest 45 a month Bronze plan under the CHM but they charge higher set up fees
and it has a 5,000 deductible per incident.

There are no set-up fees through the exchanges, and the $5,000 deductible is annually, not "per incident."

I can understand why you’d be reluctant to go through the exchanges if you’ve been given that kind of disinformation.

Is this your first time getting health insurance on your own?

 

[emilynghiem]

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

True, but I love kicking the ever loving shit out of the Fabian socialists because they can't best me even on the best day that they ever had. I am a walking, talking encyclopedia of knowledge....it's what I do. all day and every day.

So, Encyclopedia Brown, which political flavor do you belong to?

Don't try and pigeon hole me, punkinpuss...both parties are bought and paid for by the banking oligarchs that control the purse strings of the Federal Reserve note/ fiat currency . I lean just left of center on some things and just right of center on others. I hate and despise neocons and Fabian socialists. The globalists have not had a better ally than the leftists and that is a fact. When the Club of Rome introduced their "zero growth plan" in 1970 that would kill industry in USA.INC and middle class jobs? The leftists couldn't jump on the envronmental bandwagon soon enough. I would slit the throat of a demcrat with glee and great rejoicing before I would ever toss any support their way.....and you can etch that in stone. My hatred for the uber left would make the most extremist muslim stop and stare....I hate the ultra left just that much because I know what they have done to this country. The Bush crime family and the Reaganites are pretty sorry...make no mistake about that...but the Fabian socialists run circles around them and I spit on them every chance I get....do ya hear me and can ya dig it???

I asked a question; didn't realize it would make you go all paranoid, but at least you gave a thorough and interesting answer. Thank you.

Dear Arianrhod
I'd be happy to get an answer in detail at all. Completely workable with, why not start there and
maybe the rest will iron itself out.

If you don't like the tone, then tone yours down also.
People pick up vibes, so if you project disdain they respond to that vibe.
Positive attracts positive, negative attracts negative.

If you want more positive responses, then initiate the same standards,
and it will go up and up on this board. Just takes time as people aren't used to being positive about politics!
Can you really blame them? When all the media exploits fear and hate campaigns,
we are trying to change the nature of the beast. So give it time, we'll all get there eventually by necessity.

 

[Dale Smith]

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.



The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

True, but I love kicking the ever loving shit out of the Fabian socialists because they can't best me even on the best day that they ever had. I am a walking, talking encyclopedia of knowledge....it's what I do. all day and every day.

So, Encyclopedia Brown, which political flavor do you belong to?

Don't try and pigeon hole me, punkinpuss...both parties are bought and paid for by the banking oligarchs that control the purse strings of the Federal Reserve note/ fiat currency . I lean just left of center on some things and just right of center on others. I hate and despise neocons and Fabian socialists. The globalists have not had a better ally than the leftists and that is a fact. When the Club of Rome introduced their "zero growth plan" in 1970 that would kill industry in USA.INC and middle class jobs? The leftists couldn't jump on the envronmental bandwagon soon enough. I would slit the throat of a demcrat with glee and great rejoicing before I would ever toss any support their way.....and you can etch that in stone. My hatred for the uber left would make the most extremist muslim stop and stare....I hate the ultra left just that much because I know what they have done to this country. The Bush crime family and the Reaganites are pretty sorry...make no mistake about that...but the Fabian socialists run circles around them and I spit on them every chance I get....do ya hear me and can ya dig it???

I asked a question; didn't realize it would make you go all paranoid, but at least you gave a thorough and interesting answer. Thank you.

Not paranoid in the slightest....just being 100 percent honest and what makes it even more genuine is that I know more than 99.9 percent of the people on this board.

 

[emilynghiem]

It depends on your income level.
For many people the health shares are cheaper.
But limits on coverage as BULLDOG pointed out.

Limits on coverage via the sources you’re considering, you mean. Because there are no limits on coverage with established insurers.

I was looking at either the 199 monthly membership under Liberty with the one time set up fee
and 75 annual membership after that. with 1,000,000 one million dollar coverage and 500 deductible,
or figure out what is the lowest option under Medi-Shares to compare which is cheaper monthly.

Or the lowest 45 a month Bronze plan under the CHM but they charge higher set up fees
and it has a 5,000 deductible per incident.

There are no set-up fees through the exchanges, and the $5,000 deductible is annually, not "per incident."

I can understand why you’d be reluctant to go through the exchanges if you’ve been given that kind of disinformation.

Is this your first time getting health insurance on your own?

Dear Arianrhod
1. Either way, people have to pay for costs not covered by insurance including deductibles.
2. You are missing my main point.
I don't believe that ACA is constitutional, so participating in it violates my beliefs.

It is like saying if a bill is passed forcing Christian or Islamic laws on people,
then I want to AVOID any program under THAT BILL because I believe it is unauthorized.

I want to find and support programs that AREN'T under that bill I believe is unconstitutional.

So I am looking for the minimal way that infringes LEAST on my beliefs but is still affordable
UNTIL the mandate is finally agreed to be unconstitutional and is either changed to voluntary or is made tax deductible or something that doesn't impair my finances or force me to violate my own beliefs to save money. Sorry that is unacceptable as forcing Rosa Parks to sit in the back because the law said she was required to give up her seat to a white person.

Participating in the federal exchanges 100% violates my beliefs
as I do not believe in being forced to participate in it by fining me into it where I
am not free to support other options.

The alternatives that take me out of the loop under the exemptions
is like a shortcut to avoid being under the guessing game of what the feds say the exchanges
are going to do or not do.

At least I am paying a set amount that doesn't dictate which service providers accept the insurance plans.
At least I would be free to choose services and pay for them myself with the least regulations.

I would rather have more freedom and pay more money
than gamble trying to pay less and lose freedom to the whims of federal regulations.

The stress of that would lead me back to my original idea of going on hunger strike
(or suing the Democratic Party for 10 million I would donate to charity to make a public statement that this mandate is unconstitutional by discriminating on the basis of creed).

If I can find a less stressful route, that infringes least, I'd rather pay more to retain my freedom of choice
and belief from regulation and micromanagement by federal govt I don't have a direct say in.

 

[Arianrhod]

^I just hope your definition of freedom doesn't end up with your needing treatment and being told "We don't accept your Christian co-op insurance here."

Are you at least clearer on the fact that a deductible is annual and not "per incident"?

 

[emilynghiem]

^I just hope your definition of freedom doesn't end up with your needing treatment and being told "We don't accept your Christian co-op insurance here."

Are you at least clearer on the fact that a deductible is annual and not "per incident"?

Dear Arianrhod
1. With the Liberty Health Shares the 1 M limit is per incident but the 500 deductible (unshared amount)
is for the year

The Annual Unshared Amount (AUA), is limited in an annual period to $500 for a single, $1,000 for a couple, $1,500 for a family. The AUA is the same for all three programs.

2. You're still missing my point.
I'd rather have the freedom to pay for MY ENTIRE HEALTH BILL MYSELF
than be forced by federal govt to buy insurance. I want the free choice to do that, not be under
coercion of paying a fine if I don't buy it under the federal terms.

Do you get it now?

Lookup the lawsuit by the man who wanted free choice to pay all his health care costs himself to retain his freedom.
If you agree to be responsible for that, why be fined for not buying insurance as one way to reduce costs?

When is it a crime, deserving of losing rights without due process,
to want to pay your own health care costs yourself or be happy to die if nobody wants to cover it?

That's why I offered to go on hunger strike.
I would rather die than lose my freedom.

The 10 million dollar lawsuit for pain and suffering to donate to sustainable charities
would be a better option if I could find a lawyer to argue that.
I might have to go on hunger strike to find one.
I found a law firm willing to hire me and pay for my insurance to make this simpler.
But I still want to sue on principle, because that's still unconstitutional and needs correction.
The whole program can be run and funded voluntarily
by forcing the Democratic Party to manage its own agenda for its own members legally,
and pay restitution for all costs of unconstitutional legislation. Same with suing the
Republican Party for backing any illicit war contracts under Bush to push political agenda
on everyone else who contested that as unconstitutional and unauthorized.

We could pay for health care with credits owed to taxpayers for the violations
of both parties, if we all got smart united and pursued this level of restitution
and reimbursement of our tax dollars to pay for unconstitutional unauthorized debts.

If I could organize a legal team that isn't sold out to both parties with the financial
contributions and campaign funding that ties judges and lawyers to party politics...

 

[Arianrhod]

^I just hope your definition of freedom doesn't end up with your needing treatment and being told "We don't accept your Christian co-op insurance here."

Are you at least clearer on the fact that a deductible is annual and not "per incident"?

Dear Arianrhod
1. With the Liberty Health Shares the 1 M limit is per incident but the 500 deductible (unshared amount)
is for the year

The Annual Unshared Amount (AUA), is limited in an annual period to $500 for a single, $1,000 for a couple, $1,500 for a family. The AUA is the same for all three programs.

2. You're still missing my point.
I'd rather have the freedom to pay for MY ENTIRE HEALTH BILL MYSELF

Wouldn't we all? But I don't know too many people who've got the price of a broken leg or an appendectomy, much less heart surgery or cancer treatment, in their savings account - do you?

 

[emilynghiem]

^I just hope your definition of freedom doesn't end up with your needing treatment and being told "We don't accept your Christian co-op insurance here."

Are you at least clearer on the fact that a deductible is annual and not "per incident"?

Dear Arianrhod
1. With the Liberty Health Shares the 1 M limit is per incident but the 500 deductible (unshared amount)
is for the year

The Annual Unshared Amount (AUA), is limited in an annual period to $500 for a single, $1,000 for a couple, $1,500 for a family. The AUA is the same for all three programs.

2. You're still missing my point.
I'd rather have the freedom to pay for MY ENTIRE HEALTH BILL MYSELF

Wouldn't we all? But I don't know too many people who've got the price of a broken leg or an appendectomy, much less heart surgery or cancer treatment, in their savings account - do you?

Dear Arianrhod See the part about suing both major political parties
to either reimburse taxpayers for abuses by govt by their party leaders and candidates
and/or to form legal teams to go after the wrongdoers to either pay back taxpayers
or give taxpayers credit and invest that in revamping health care (also prisons and VA) and covering costs.

Don't you think if the trillions wasted on contested war spending were
crediting back to taxpayers we can cover emergency catastrophic costs?
And if the state budgets wasting millions if not billions on failed prison and mental health systems,
then those resources could better be invested in medical programs, facilities and services for the entire public?

If Republicans don't want to be under federal ACA, why not fund health care systems for their own members through their own party on a free market basis?

If Democrats and Greens want Singlepayer/Universal Care, why not set that up through those party networks on all levels from local to national, and organize the resources directly themselves, ie without having to spend a dime campaigning against opposition so all the money goes directly into paying for services, not campaigning for or against other groups.

The Federal Reserve and notes issues are already done on the basis of debt.
Why not hold wrongdoers accountable for debts they incurred instead of charging these wrongs to taxpayers? And hold property and programs as collateral on the value of the debts.

If taxpayers are going to bail out the debts of wrongdoers, why don't we get the interest rates on loans to govt, or we get the ownership of the collateral on these debts?

If govt manages to get wrongdoers to pay back debts, sure govt can keep ownership and control. Otherwise, why not shift the responsibility and ownership to taxpayers who have already paid billions into the system. Why not use the credits we have for health care? Through the party system, we could organize mass reimbursements and credits to taxpayers, issue by issue, by delegating these cases out to the parties that have done the research on who did what corrupt action and cost taxpayers how much money. They've dug up the dirt already, why not cash in on it to get taxpayers paid back, or get credits or collateral, to leverage health care reform that does cover all the costs as sustainably, cost-effectively, and ethically as possible with respect to Constitutional rights and free choice of participation.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Wow. A thread combining Jesus Saves! with Everything Your Favorite RW Site Told You About the Evils of Obamacare -! Only on USMB.

If Nessie swam by with the Abominable Snowman riding on her back, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, if it were being filmed by the Greys before they returned to the mothership, that might be worth something...

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

Dear Sun Devil 92 just calling ACA porn does not change the
mandates that have been costing people's income and money on their tax returns who can't afford that.

I cannot pay for both the monthly health insurance premiums required
AND pay for a vehicle I was covering for a nonprofit organization that needs it for youth and elderly programs.

So I either have to lose a vehicle and damage my credit
or get fined for not buying health insurance or buying a health share membership.

I cannot pay for both unless I get other sponsors or donors to pay the difference.

Emily,

I said it has the same affect on them as I would expect porn to have on a normal person.

The rest of your post is true...for many.

The ACA has helped some. It has screwed others.

 

[emilynghiem]

Keep trusting in your beloved "gubermint" that is actually a corporate entity trying to pass itself off as a governmental body...and I will trust God and my right to protect me and mine. I definitely like my chances better than yours. (snicker)

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

Dear Sun Devil 92 just calling ACA porn does not change the
mandates that have been costing people's income and money on their tax returns who can't afford that.

I cannot pay for both the monthly health insurance premiums required
AND pay for a vehicle I was covering for a nonprofit organization that needs it for youth and elderly programs.

So I either have to lose a vehicle and damage my credit
or get fined for not buying health insurance or buying a health share membership.

I cannot pay for both unless I get other sponsors or donors to pay the difference.

Emily,

I said it has the same affect on them as I would expect porn to have on a normal person.

The rest of your post is true...for many.

The ACA has helped some. It has screwed others.

I get what you meant, it's liberal porn for those who get off "using it" for that.
But even porn is free choice to look at, and this is forced on people, not a choice.
If 'right to life' legislation is rejected by free choice, why not 'right to health' regulations.

In general, Sun Devil 92,
I'd say your analogy is an insult to porn. ;-)

 

[Sun Devil 92]

So you don't believe God helps those who help themselves?

I do "help myself" and I don't depend on "da gubermint" that is nothing more than a corporate and parasitic entity that has been sucking the life out of this country since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.....of which I am most certain that you have no clue about...are you an American or a U.S citizen? Because you cannot be both. You are either a sovereign or you pledge loyalty to USA.INC whose headquarters are in the city state that is the District of Columbia. I pledge no loyalty to USA.INC nor do I submit to their Admiralty courts with the gold fringed flag...do you?

Don't get sucked into this conversation.

The far left is only looking for an excuse to play with themselves.

The ACA is the equivalent of 2000 pages of porn to the left.

Dear Sun Devil 92 just calling ACA porn does not change the
mandates that have been costing people's income and money on their tax returns who can't afford that.

I cannot pay for both the monthly health insurance premiums required
AND pay for a vehicle I was covering for a nonprofit organization that needs it for youth and elderly programs.

So I either have to lose a vehicle and damage my credit
or get fined for not buying health insurance or buying a health share membership.

I cannot pay for both unless I get other sponsors or donors to pay the difference.

Emily,

I said it has the same affect on them as I would expect porn to have on a normal person.

The rest of your post is true...for many.

The ACA has helped some. It has screwed others.

I get what you meant, it's liberal porn for those who get off "using it" for that.
But even porn is free choice to look at, and this is forced on people, not a choice.
If 'right to life' legislation is rejected by free choice, why not 'right to health' regulations.

In general, Sun Devil 92,
I'd say your analogy is an insult to porn. ;-)

You are most likely right.

 

[dblack]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

 

[emilynghiem]

So atheists are just fucked, eh?

dblack
Atheists and other secularists can join the petition or lawsuit that the Democratic Party
owes Singlepayer to all members it has promised equal protection of the laws to as its commitment to inclusion and diversity. If that is the Democratic Party political religion,
it should be paid for and provided by the Democrats just like any other organized religion.

So all the programs and management needed become the financial and legal responsibility of the Democrats, from Pelosi and Obama
and all their supporters and supporters of ACA and the corporate cronies who created this agreement with the President on the individual mandate.

The entire ACA can be declared optional to follow since
"the right to health care" is a BELIEF written into the platform of the Democratic Party.

The secular humanists and atheists who support the argument that a belief-based system cannot be mandated through federal govt (similar to right to life as a belief that biases laws, this is right to health care as belief that is biasing laws to the EXCLUSION and penalty of other beliefs)
can join the lawsuit holding Democrats responsible for the
24 billion dollar cost to taxpayers of the federal shutdown over this bill, which discriminates on the basis of creed and was thus rightfully contested
as an unconstitutional overreach of federal authority,
and demand that Democrat Party leadres pay back that 24 billion into creating "universally inclusive" health care for the members who AGREE to be under that system if it set up correctly.

The people who passed it are required to pay for it and be under it, and anyone else who BELIEVES in that principle is required to pay for their own belief system, not impose through govt. And anyone else who wants centrally managed health care under this Democrat plan
as shown by the Democrat Congress members who believe in and voted for it while the other groups did not. Anyone can participate voluntary as long as they meet the requirements for membership, just like any other religious organization.

If you compare right to health care with right to life, such prolife believers are expected to fund their own programs and policies and NOT mandate these through federal govt to exclude and penalize people of FREE CHOICE beliefs. So the same needs to be applied to right to health care beliefs, instead of penalizing others of FREE MARKET beliefs.

Otherwise it is clearly a case of discrimination by belief and creed, as shown by the split in votes by party and the platform of the Democratic party that recognizes the right to health care as a BELIEF. Right to health care and the laws biased by that should be treated EQUALLY as right to life and the laws biased by that belief, or else the Democratic officials are guilty of conspiring to violate equal rights and beliefs protected under law, by mandating one belief but denying others, and penalizing opposing beliefs.

Atheists can sue as well, similar to suing Christians for pushing beliefs through govt that exclude minority groups of equally protected beliefs and creeds.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

I think my insurance that I pay for should insure me, but I dont think any of the payment should go to buy insurance for someone too lazy to provide for themselves.

 

[Arianrhod]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

I think my insurance that I pay for should insure me, but I dont think any of the payment should go to buy insurance for someone too lazy to provide for themselves.

SSDD.

You should look into health savings accounts.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Christ on a cracker, Emily, there's no insurance plan in North America called Obamacare, so opting out is not an issue.

If you're talking about the ACA, then it too is not a single plan. It is instead an Act of Congress that forces health insurance companies to actually insure their customers.

Why would anyone not want their insurance company to insure them????

I think my insurance that I pay for should insure me, but I dont think any of the payment should go to buy insurance for someone too lazy to provide for themselves.

SSDD.

You should look into health savings accounts.

Why, what I had/have was working fine until the negrocare started raising the rates to pay for the democrats lazy pets