OMG! I like Bernie's idea for free college, with a few tweeks...

[Staidhup]

In Europe, that great bastion of socialism, trade schools play a grater role in preparing students in the mastering of a wage paying trade, college educates those striving to enter a white collar profession. In America we view college as a right not requiring a stated purpose.
My old boss fought in WWII, never attended college, built a multi billion dollar business from working his way up from cleaning the floors of the shop to eventually buying the business, recognizing, capitalizing on opportunities. I guess he is what those wanting everything for free will never understand.

 

[jc456]

I want my mortgage paid off Bernie!!! why can't we do that too? I mean fk all debt, why stop at fking college! the most immature man in america.

Because we need more educated people in this country that are productive and less people who post 69,000+ times on an internet messageboard about their freedom being taken away by gay and brown people.

i thought all the illegals were the smart ones? which is it?

No one ever said that, but an unintelligent/uneducated person would ask something like that.

oh no you don't, you don't get to change your position in mid flight. nope! they are smarter than civilians, it's why we need them, verbatim fkster

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

How about everyone be responsible adults and pay for their own education?

It must be nice able to contain your viewpoints to statements that can fit on a bumper sticker.

It must be nice to just nonchalantly pass your personal responsibilities off on others and expect everyone else to take care of you like you're still in diapers.

 

[jc456]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

How about everyone be responsible adults and pay for their own education?

It must be nice able to contain your viewpoints to statements that can fit on a bumper sticker.

It must be nice to just nonchalantly pass your personal responsibilities off on others and expect everyone else to take care of you like you're still in diapers.

if they were still in diapers they could be aborted. damn!!!!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

No


Those people working on wallstreet paid for their education just like the rest of us.
I am NEVER for the FORCED redistribution of wealth.

 

[kyzr]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

Can you explain how a high speed trader skims money from my 401K? Thanks.

High speed traders "steal from our 401k's" by skimming money from the pie instead of growing the pie. The high speed traders do nothing to help the stock market valuations or other long-term investors. If they "bought and held" stock like the rest of us it would help everyone. I'm not a fan of short-sellers either. A small transaction tax hopefully makes high speed trading unprofitable.

High speed traders "steal from our 401k's" by skimming money from the pie instead of growing the pie.

QQQs are sitting in my 401K. How does a high speed trader skim from my 401K pie?

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do. They do nothing to help the stock market appreciate. Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper. A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do.

They trade, really, really quickly.
They also have no impact on the QQQs sitting in my 401K.

Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper.

How do they "steal value"? Can you walk through the steps of a typical trade?

A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.

Yes, it would make lots of things less attractive, while raising a fraction of what's claimed,
while costing lots of jobs.

On the plus side, everyone on Wall Street will line up against Bernie, and any other supporter of this silly idea, from day one.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order. Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market. You need to read the following link to see that the concern is real. The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price. Maybe you like getting robbed, most of us don't.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

Can you explain how a high speed trader skims money from my 401K? Thanks.

High speed traders "steal from our 401k's" by skimming money from the pie instead of growing the pie. The high speed traders do nothing to help the stock market valuations or other long-term investors. If they "bought and held" stock like the rest of us it would help everyone. I'm not a fan of short-sellers either. A small transaction tax hopefully makes high speed trading unprofitable.

High speed traders "steal from our 401k's" by skimming money from the pie instead of growing the pie.

QQQs are sitting in my 401K. How does a high speed trader skim from my 401K pie?

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do. They do nothing to help the stock market appreciate. Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper. A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do.

They trade, really, really quickly.
They also have no impact on the QQQs sitting in my 401K.

Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper.

How do they "steal value"? Can you walk through the steps of a typical trade?

A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.

Yes, it would make lots of things less attractive, while raising a fraction of what's claimed,
while costing lots of jobs.

On the plus side, everyone on Wall Street will line up against Bernie, and any other supporter of this silly idea, from day one.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order. Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market. You need to read the following link to see that the concern is real. The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price. Maybe you like getting robbed, most of us don't.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order.

Wow. Sounds easy!!! How is it stealing?

Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market.

Sounds awful! So how do they "skim"? Walk through the steps.

The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price.

They didn't steal from my shares, or the shares underlying my shares.

Thanks for the link. I didn't sell during any Wall Street disasters. Try again?

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

How much do you feel this tax will raise?

 

[DJT for Life]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

There is actually a 5th flaw in all of their plans...

They all keep telling folks they will eliminate student debt and make college tuition free. I just want to know who is going to foot the
bill for books, room and board?

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

Actually, the thread has spun out of control.

A debate/argument is trying to be waged on incomplete thoughts and information.

It ain't as simple as the Dem politicians are trying to make it out to be. K-12 does not involve tuition fees. It does not involve
room and board (Maybe lunch money). With the exception of some work books, the text books are "loaned to the students. The only costs
to the parents, save, Ins for extracurricular activities and student fees for a field trip, are gathered thru property taxes and the occasional
school tax. Only students living in that county are allowed to attend that public school. Out-of-County students do not attend a public
school, let alone out-of-state students. So what are the rules gonna be? What are the costs going to be? How is a Federal Tax
on Wall Street going to be distributed? How is the student population going to be capped? What are the educational requirements
going to be for admission?

My only point I attempted to make is it is a pipe dream that students will not have to borrow money. The Dems are saying
free "TUITION." There is a reason for being that specific....the students will have debt for room, board and books and that ain't
cheap either.

If somebody really wanted to be innovative they would add a 13th and 14th grade to High School, which would serve as
the first two years of college. (Liberal Arts portion of a student's education) It wouldn't be any different than the current Jr-Sr High School.
8th graders complete their Middle School in the same buildings with the same teachers that they will attend High School in.
Just add another building and 10 or 20 more teachers.

But one way or another they will have to cap costs. The teacher's unions have taken all the money away from the students
to pay their increased salaries. You'd have to cap that.

It's fun to argue but a free college education is never going to happen for the general, average student.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

There is actually a 5th flaw in all of their plans...

They all keep telling folks they will eliminate student debt and make college tuition free. I just want to know who is going to foot the
bill for books, room and board?

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

This thread is about more free trinkets being offerwd by idiots and I owe your kid nothing and you owe my kid nothing. Odd for a libertarian, you sure do seem to be insinuating a free horse ride.

 

[FA_Q2]

Dipshit the thread is on college. Stick your straw man up your ass

what difference does it make, you are still paying for other people's kid's education

Again fool, the thread is on college. Sit down with your infernal trolling already

you are making a distinction without a difference.

Not really.

The idea behind public education is that everyone requires at least a basic understanding of core subjects to be an effective member of society. College is above and beyond that basic education for those areas that require more. Not everyone requires college and we really need to stop this failed narrative that they do.

If you had read the rest of my post in this thread you would see that I agree not everyone needs college, I have made that very clear.

Not really relevant. You said there was not a distinction. I pointed out that is not correct - there is a distinction. More importantly, it is a distinction in which the entire crux of the issue lies.

One could make the argument that everyone needs training beyond the basic understanding of core subjects in high school, it does not have to be college.

You could try. It would be blatantly wrong though. There are a million jobs out there that are far under even what a 12th grade education gets you.

The only reason we stop at 12th grade is because that is what we are used to. The countries that go beyond 12th grade are not "wrong" or "right". Why the 12th?

Everyone could have a basic understanding of core subjects by the end of 10th grade if we took out the non-essentials. I am not advocating for stopping then, but just pointing out there is no magic about 12th grade

Yes, it is where we have stopped and to change that there needs to be a damn solid reason for it. Everyone does not require an education past 12th grade and, as you pointed out, 12th is likely even beyond what is really necessary. I do not think that 12th is the stopping point because that is when you have all the basics but rather because generally that is when you are 18 and now ready to transition into an adult.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

There is actually a 5th flaw in all of their plans...

They all keep telling folks they will eliminate student debt and make college tuition free. I just want to know who is going to foot the
bill for books, room and board?

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

This thread is about more free trinkets being offerwd by idiots and I owe your kid nothing and you owe my kid nothing. Odd for a libertarian, you sure do seem to be insinuating a free horse ride.

I am playing the devils advocate here because the claim "I owe your kid nothing and you owe my kid nothing" fails when it comes to K-12 public education. Wherever you live, if you have kids or not, you are paying the for education of other's peoples kids. I have not seen a single person on this forum argue against public K-12 education.

So, the only discussion is really at what point do we stop doing so.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Not really relevant. You said there was not a distinction. I pointed out that is not correct - there is a distinction. More importantly, it is a distinction in which the entire crux of the issue lies.

I said they were making a distinction without a difference. The distinction is merely an artificial point that we as a society has chosen. That is all I am saying.

You could try. It would be blatantly wrong though. There are a million jobs out there that are far under even what a 12th grade education gets you.

Thus we could stop "free" school at the 10th grade vice the 12th.

Yes, it is where we have stopped and to change that there needs to be a damn solid reason for it.

I would disagree. If the only reason we do it that way is because we always have, then that is a terrible reason for doing it that way.

Everyone does not require an education past 12th grade and, as you pointed out, 12th is likely even beyond what is really necessary.

Thus you do not give everyone an education past 12th grade.

I do not think that 12th is the stopping point because that is when you have all the basics but rather because generally that is when you are 18 and now ready to transition into an adult.

Which came first? Do we view 18 as an adult because that is when they finish "school" or do we did we plan school so they would finish as they became "adults"?

 

[kyzr]

High speed traders "steal from our 401k's" by skimming money from the pie instead of growing the pie. The high speed traders do nothing to help the stock market valuations or other long-term investors. If they "bought and held" stock like the rest of us it would help everyone. I'm not a fan of short-sellers either. A small transaction tax hopefully makes high speed trading unprofitable.

High speed traders "steal from our 401k's" by skimming money from the pie instead of growing the pie.

QQQs are sitting in my 401K. How does a high speed trader skim from my 401K pie?

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do. They do nothing to help the stock market appreciate. Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper. A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do.

They trade, really, really quickly.
They also have no impact on the QQQs sitting in my 401K.

Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper.

How do they "steal value"? Can you walk through the steps of a typical trade?

A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.

Yes, it would make lots of things less attractive, while raising a fraction of what's claimed,
while costing lots of jobs.

On the plus side, everyone on Wall Street will line up against Bernie, and any other supporter of this silly idea, from day one.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order. Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market. You need to read the following link to see that the concern is real. The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price. Maybe you like getting robbed, most of us don't.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order.

Wow. Sounds easy!!! How is it stealing?

Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market.

Sounds awful! So how do they "skim"? Walk through the steps.

The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price.

They didn't steal from my shares, or the shares underlying my shares.

Thanks for the link. I didn't sell during any Wall Street disasters. Try again?

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

How much do you feel this tax will raise?

1. How is it stealing? By not waiting for the stock to appreciate like the rest of the investors. By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors. That's how.

2. The steps are described in detail in the article, by buying/selling stock in nanoseconds. A minimal tax would make that unprofitable.

3. Yes they did steal from your shares, who the fuck do you think they took their profit from? (all investors)

4. Point being that Bernie's proposal kills two birds, it funds higher education and job training, and helps stock investors by stopping high speed computer traders

 

[kyzr]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

There is actually a 5th flaw in all of their plans...

They all keep telling folks they will eliminate student debt and make college tuition free. I just want to know who is going to foot the
bill for books, room and board?

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

Actually, the thread has spun out of control.

A debate/argument is trying to be waged on incomplete thoughts and information.

It ain't as simple as the Dem politicians are trying to make it out to be. K-12 does not involve tuition fees. It does not involve
room and board (Maybe lunch money). With the exception of some work books, the text books are "loaned to the students. The only costs
to the parents, save, Ins for extracurricular activities and student fees for a field trip, are gathered thru property taxes and the occasional
school tax. Only students living in that county are allowed to attend that public school. Out-of-County students do not attend a public
school, let alone out-of-state students. So what are the rules gonna be? What are the costs going to be? How is a Federal Tax
on Wall Street going to be distributed? How is the student population going to be capped? What are the educational requirements
going to be for admission?

My only point I attempted to make is it is a pipe dream that students will not have to borrow money. The Dems are saying
free "TUITION." There is a reason for being that specific....the students will have debt for room, board and books and that ain't
cheap either.

If somebody really wanted to be innovative they would add a 13th and 14th grade to High School, which would serve as
the first two years of college. (Liberal Arts portion of a student's education) It wouldn't be any different than the current Jr-Sr High School.
8th graders complete their Middle School in the same buildings with the same teachers that they will attend High School in.
Just add another building and 10 or 20 more teachers.

But one way or another they will have to cap costs. The teacher's unions have taken all the money away from the students
to pay their increased salaries. You'd have to cap that.

It's fun to argue but a free college education is never going to happen for the general, average student.

A couple of points for you to consider:
1. Local school districts are strapped for cash. So the 13th & 14th grades, even if limited to the college kids is unaffordable for most.
2. The transaction tax generates a pile of money from those who will not miss it. Using it to eliminate or reduce student loans, or pay for job training, is a good idea.
3. Agree need to cap costs for college. Maybe putting those endowment funds to use would help? Colleges should fund 1/3 of the student's loans, so they have skin in the game if the kid can't finish, or can't find a good job. i.e. stop giving useless degrees with mega-loans.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

High speed traders "steal from our 401k's" by skimming money from the pie instead of growing the pie.

QQQs are sitting in my 401K. How does a high speed trader skim from my 401K pie?

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do. They do nothing to help the stock market appreciate. Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper. A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do.

They trade, really, really quickly.
They also have no impact on the QQQs sitting in my 401K.

Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper.

How do they "steal value"? Can you walk through the steps of a typical trade?

A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.

Yes, it would make lots of things less attractive, while raising a fraction of what's claimed,
while costing lots of jobs.

On the plus side, everyone on Wall Street will line up against Bernie, and any other supporter of this silly idea, from day one.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order. Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market. You need to read the following link to see that the concern is real. The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price. Maybe you like getting robbed, most of us don't.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order.

Wow. Sounds easy!!! How is it stealing?

Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market.

Sounds awful! So how do they "skim"? Walk through the steps.

The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price.

They didn't steal from my shares, or the shares underlying my shares.

Thanks for the link. I didn't sell during any Wall Street disasters. Try again?

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

How much do you feel this tax will raise?

1. How is it stealing? By not waiting for the stock to appreciate like the rest of the investors. By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors. That's how.

2. The steps are described in detail in the article, by buying/selling stock in nanoseconds. A minimal tax would make that unprofitable.

3. Yes they did steal from your shares, who the fuck do you think they took their profit from? (all investors)

4. Point being that Bernie's proposal kills two birds, it funds higher education and job training, and helps stock investors by stopping high speed computer traders

How is it stealing? By not waiting for the stock to appreciate like the rest of the investors.

I can sell my stock 5 years after I buy it, 5 minutes after, 5 microseconds after.
None of those options steals a penny from you.

By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors.

You still haven't shown how the speed of their computers steals a penny from me.
Or walked me through a typical trade. How do they "skim". Or don't you know?

A minimal tax would make that unprofitable.

And wouldn't do a thing to help me or my QQQs.​

​

Yes they did steal from your shares, who the fuck do you think they took their profit from? ​

You're lying, because a soundbite is easier than proof.
​

Point being that Bernie's proposal kills two birds, it funds higher education and job training​

You never said how much this tax would raise for the government.
​

and helps stock investors by stopping high speed computer traders​

Since I'm not competing against these traders and held my position for years, they don't help or hurt me.​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There is actually a 5th flaw in all of their plans...

They all keep telling folks they will eliminate student debt and make college tuition free. I just want to know who is going to foot the
bill for books, room and board?

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

Actually, the thread has spun out of control.

A debate/argument is trying to be waged on incomplete thoughts and information.

It ain't as simple as the Dem politicians are trying to make it out to be. K-12 does not involve tuition fees. It does not involve
room and board (Maybe lunch money). With the exception of some work books, the text books are "loaned to the students. The only costs
to the parents, save, Ins for extracurricular activities and student fees for a field trip, are gathered thru property taxes and the occasional
school tax. Only students living in that county are allowed to attend that public school. Out-of-County students do not attend a public
school, let alone out-of-state students. So what are the rules gonna be? What are the costs going to be? How is a Federal Tax
on Wall Street going to be distributed? How is the student population going to be capped? What are the educational requirements
going to be for admission?

My only point I attempted to make is it is a pipe dream that students will not have to borrow money. The Dems are saying
free "TUITION." There is a reason for being that specific....the students will have debt for room, board and books and that ain't
cheap either.

If somebody really wanted to be innovative they would add a 13th and 14th grade to High School, which would serve as
the first two years of college. (Liberal Arts portion of a student's education) It wouldn't be any different than the current Jr-Sr High School.
8th graders complete their Middle School in the same buildings with the same teachers that they will attend High School in.
Just add another building and 10 or 20 more teachers.

But one way or another they will have to cap costs. The teacher's unions have taken all the money away from the students
to pay their increased salaries. You'd have to cap that.

It's fun to argue but a free college education is never going to happen for the general, average student.

A couple of points for you to consider:
1. Local school districts are strapped for cash. So the 13th & 14th grades, even if limited to the college kids is unaffordable for most.
2. The transaction tax generates a pile of money from those who will not miss it. Using it to eliminate or reduce student loans, or pay for job training, is a good idea.
3. Agree need to cap costs for college. Maybe putting those endowment funds to use would help? Colleges should fund 1/3 of the student's loans, so they have skin in the game if the kid can't finish, or can't find a good job. i.e. stop giving useless degrees with mega-loans.

The transaction tax generates a pile of money from those who will not miss it.

Hilarious!

 

[kyzr]

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do. They do nothing to help the stock market appreciate. Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper. A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

You need to research WTF high speed traders actually do.

They trade, really, really quickly.
They also have no impact on the QQQs sitting in my 401K.

Your QQQs would be worth more without the high speed traders stealing value and making the dips deeper.

How do they "steal value"? Can you walk through the steps of a typical trade?

A small transaction tax would reduce the attractiveness of high speed trading.

Yes, it would make lots of things less attractive, while raising a fraction of what's claimed,
while costing lots of jobs.

On the plus side, everyone on Wall Street will line up against Bernie, and any other supporter of this silly idea, from day one.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order. Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market. You need to read the following link to see that the concern is real. The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price. Maybe you like getting robbed, most of us don't.
Too fast to fail: How high-speed trading makes Wall Street disasters worse

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

By buying and selling hundreds of millions of shares in nanoseconds companies can make $100,000,000 in short order.

Wow. Sounds easy!!! How is it stealing?

Its all computer theft by "quants" whose job is to skim the stock market.

Sounds awful! So how do they "skim"? Walk through the steps.

The money they steal should be in your QQQ stock price.

They didn't steal from my shares, or the shares underlying my shares.

Thanks for the link. I didn't sell during any Wall Street disasters. Try again?

If you don't like spending the "transaction tax" on education, then pay down the Debt, or reduce the Budget Deficit with it.

How much do you feel this tax will raise?

1. How is it stealing? By not waiting for the stock to appreciate like the rest of the investors. By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors. That's how.

2. The steps are described in detail in the article, by buying/selling stock in nanoseconds. A minimal tax would make that unprofitable.

3. Yes they did steal from your shares, who the fuck do you think they took their profit from? (all investors)

4. Point being that Bernie's proposal kills two birds, it funds higher education and job training, and helps stock investors by stopping high speed computer traders

How is it stealing? By not waiting for the stock to appreciate like the rest of the investors.

I can sell my stock 5 years after I buy it, 5 minutes after, 5 microseconds after.
None of those options steals a penny from you.

By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors.

You still haven't shown how the speed of their computers steals a penny from me.
Or walked me through a typical trade. How do they "skim". Or don't you know?

A minimal tax would make that unprofitable.

And wouldn't do a thing to help me or my QQQs.
Yes they did steal from your shares, who the fuck do you think they took their profit from?

You're lying, because a soundbite is easier than proof.

Point being that Bernie's proposal kills two birds, it funds higher education and job training

You never said how much this tax would raise for the government.

and helps stock investors by stopping high speed computer traders

Since I'm not competing against these traders and held my position for years, they don't help or hurt me.​

How is it stealing? By not waiting for the stock to appreciate like the rest of the investors.
I can sell my stock 5 years after I buy it, 5 minutes after, 5 microseconds after. None of those options steals a penny from you.
I agree for the 5-years, but not the 5-minutes or 5-microseconds. The purpose of the stock market is to give capital to companies to grow and generate more profit. The short term high-speed traders don't add value, they steal investment capital.

By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors. You still haven't shown how the speed of their computers steals a penny from me. Or walked me through a typical trade. How do they "skim". Or don't you know? If you don't understand the bold answer above, you need to do your own research on high-speed trading.

A minimal transaction tax would make high-speed trading unprofitable. And wouldn't do a thing to help me or my QQQs.
A minimal transaction tax would prevent the high-speed traders from robbing you blind. DUH.


Yes they did steal from your shares, who the fuck do you think they took their profit from? You're lying, because a soundbite is easier than proof. Denial is not a refutation. Who do you think they stole the money from? (ans: investors)


You never said how much this tax would raise for the government. The transaction tax should raise about $200b a year.
Bernie Sanders: I Will Cancel All $1.6 Trillion Of Your Student Loan Debt
"Sanders will fund his student loan forgiveness plan through a new tax on financial transactions, which he expects could raise more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years. The tax plan will include a 0.5% fee on all stock trades, a 0.1% fee on all bond trades and a 0.005% fee on all derivatives trades."


Since I'm not competing against these traders and held my position for years, they don't help or hurt me.
If they steal hundreds of millions of dollars in stock value, they are taking some of your money. They don't add value, they don't invest, they skim money using super-computers, DUH.​

 

[kyzr]

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

Actually, the thread has spun out of control.

A debate/argument is trying to be waged on incomplete thoughts and information.

It ain't as simple as the Dem politicians are trying to make it out to be. K-12 does not involve tuition fees. It does not involve
room and board (Maybe lunch money). With the exception of some work books, the text books are "loaned to the students. The only costs
to the parents, save, Ins for extracurricular activities and student fees for a field trip, are gathered thru property taxes and the occasional
school tax. Only students living in that county are allowed to attend that public school. Out-of-County students do not attend a public
school, let alone out-of-state students. So what are the rules gonna be? What are the costs going to be? How is a Federal Tax
on Wall Street going to be distributed? How is the student population going to be capped? What are the educational requirements
going to be for admission?

My only point I attempted to make is it is a pipe dream that students will not have to borrow money. The Dems are saying
free "TUITION." There is a reason for being that specific....the students will have debt for room, board and books and that ain't
cheap either.

If somebody really wanted to be innovative they would add a 13th and 14th grade to High School, which would serve as
the first two years of college. (Liberal Arts portion of a student's education) It wouldn't be any different than the current Jr-Sr High School.
8th graders complete their Middle School in the same buildings with the same teachers that they will attend High School in.
Just add another building and 10 or 20 more teachers.

But one way or another they will have to cap costs. The teacher's unions have taken all the money away from the students
to pay their increased salaries. You'd have to cap that.

It's fun to argue but a free college education is never going to happen for the general, average student.

A couple of points for you to consider:
1. Local school districts are strapped for cash. So the 13th & 14th grades, even if limited to the college kids is unaffordable for most.
2. The transaction tax generates a pile of money from those who will not miss it. Using it to eliminate or reduce student loans, or pay for job training, is a good idea.
3. Agree need to cap costs for college. Maybe putting those endowment funds to use would help? Colleges should fund 1/3 of the student's loans, so they have skin in the game if the kid can't finish, or can't find a good job. i.e. stop giving useless degrees with mega-loans.

The transaction tax generates a pile of money from those who will not miss it.

Hilarious!

Some if not most of the transaction tax will be offset by stopping high-speed traders from stealing investment capital. I call that a win-win.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

There is actually a 5th flaw in all of their plans...

They all keep telling folks they will eliminate student debt and make college tuition free. I just want to know who is going to foot the
bill for books, room and board?

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

This thread is about more free trinkets being offerwd by idiots and I owe your kid nothing and you owe my kid nothing. Odd for a libertarian, you sure do seem to be insinuating a free horse ride.

I am playing the devils advocate here because the claim "I owe your kid nothing and you owe my kid nothing" fails when it comes to K-12 public education. Wherever you live, if you have kids or not, you are paying the for education of other's peoples kids. I have not seen a single person on this forum argue against public K-12 education.

So, the only discussion is really at what point do we stop doing so.

This thread is about college. I'm not against k-12 public education. Oh you don't have to quote me. That just makes one look petty and smarky.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

Actually, the thread has spun out of control.

A debate/argument is trying to be waged on incomplete thoughts and information.

It ain't as simple as the Dem politicians are trying to make it out to be. K-12 does not involve tuition fees. It does not involve
room and board (Maybe lunch money). With the exception of some work books, the text books are "loaned to the students. The only costs
to the parents, save, Ins for extracurricular activities and student fees for a field trip, are gathered thru property taxes and the occasional
school tax. Only students living in that county are allowed to attend that public school. Out-of-County students do not attend a public
school, let alone out-of-state students. So what are the rules gonna be? What are the costs going to be? How is a Federal Tax
on Wall Street going to be distributed? How is the student population going to be capped? What are the educational requirements
going to be for admission?

My only point I attempted to make is it is a pipe dream that students will not have to borrow money. The Dems are saying
free "TUITION." There is a reason for being that specific....the students will have debt for room, board and books and that ain't
cheap either.

If somebody really wanted to be innovative they would add a 13th and 14th grade to High School, which would serve as
the first two years of college. (Liberal Arts portion of a student's education) It wouldn't be any different than the current Jr-Sr High School.
8th graders complete their Middle School in the same buildings with the same teachers that they will attend High School in.
Just add another building and 10 or 20 more teachers.

But one way or another they will have to cap costs. The teacher's unions have taken all the money away from the students
to pay their increased salaries. You'd have to cap that.

It's fun to argue but a free college education is never going to happen for the general, average student.

A couple of points for you to consider:
1. Local school districts are strapped for cash. So the 13th & 14th grades, even if limited to the college kids is unaffordable for most.
2. The transaction tax generates a pile of money from those who will not miss it. Using it to eliminate or reduce student loans, or pay for job training, is a good idea.
3. Agree need to cap costs for college. Maybe putting those endowment funds to use would help? Colleges should fund 1/3 of the student's loans, so they have skin in the game if the kid can't finish, or can't find a good job. i.e. stop giving useless degrees with mega-loans.

The transaction tax generates a pile of money from those who will not miss it.

Hilarious!

Some if not most of the transaction tax will be offset by stopping high-speed traders from stealing investment capital. I call that a win-win.

While you may not like the tactics of the HSTs, it is incorrect and counter productive to call it stealing


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com