Ohio Needs $8 Billion -- Brother Can You Spare A Dime?

[Madeline]

Ohio and most other states are in financial difficulty because revenues are down.

Sales taxes are, I don't doubt, down considerably in OH, just like they are everywhere else.

So the Rs come in promising not to raise taxes.

Okay I can understand why they don't want taxes raised. Nobody does.

But Ohio has obligations to pay its debts.

Among those obligations are the pensions of people who served the state of Ohion and they had a CONTRACT with the state, too, didn't they?.

How does one who claims that he is a conservativem and one who believes in personal responsibility simply say that the solution is to blow that CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION off?

That doesn't sound like conservatism to me.

That sounds like you're telling the State of OHIO not to honor its contractual obligations.

And if the state of Ohio doesn't pay its debts why should any of the citizens pay their debts

ARe you guys really sure you're conservatives?

You read more like anarchists to me.

You know what anarchists really are, right?

They're criminals who have a philosophy of selfishness that informs them that they have no obligation to obey laws of society.

FYI contracts are legal documents.

I am aware a contract is a legal document, editec. As I have said, impossibility is always a defense to breach. I'm UNWILLING to divert the ginormous number of dollars into the state pensions it will take to fund the failures of years past to contribute realistic amounts. I am UNWILLING for the state employee to be elevated above any other citizen, including the poor. I am UNWILLING to continue to promise a retirement standard of living to state employees that most citizens cannot even aspire to during their working years.

And before you call me any more names, it's my ox getting gored. This crisis also exists in Florida, where I spent my working life and where my pension is paid from state funds as well.

That's right, buddy -- I am advocating for a slash and burn back to realistic levels of state employee retirement benefits even though I'll be a burn victim myself. I knew when I retired the state could not sustain the level of payments it promised and I have been making plans accordingly......we ALL need to adapt, not just state employees.

But they are certainly not immune from the new economic realties, either.

Mad it isn't just Ohio facing this problem.

Every state local and Federal government employee has good pension benefits.

ARe they or are they not entitled to what they WORKED for?

If you say no, then really...is any contract worth keeping?

If that pensioner isn't entitled to his pension is he free from paying his contractually obligated debts, too?

Incidently, I don't have a pension. Never have.

And I have long comp;ainted that government workers (state local and federal) has contracts that were too generous.

But those contracts were signed, people worked according to them and now we shouldn't honor those obligations?

These are WORKING people you're screwing, you know.

I know who I'm suggesting take the pain, and I'd be willing to make enlarged contributions (of some modest size) to keep pension benefits at a higher level than would be possible just with cash on hand, especially for low-paid workers. But editec, it is time to face the music: the unions over-reached, the legislators lied, the actuaries lied, and the stock market tanked....things are not as they once seemed, decades ago.

We need change and that change will hurt government workers. I admit that freely -- but we still need it.

 

[Madeline]

Has it ever occured to you to simply cut spending on such stupid boondoggles as Strickland's stupid "light rail" project?

Instead you want Ohio to become California where they are such pot heads they vote in people like Jerry Brown?

I moved to Ohio from California for a reason. I don't want to live in California. I want to live in Ohio.

I mean no wonder California voted against legalizing pot. Why bother? They already are medicated up to their eyebrows with "medical marijuana."

NO THANKS!

Simply CUT spending! I can think of a lot places where spending could be cut. Like that park they are going to put in downtown (Columbus) that is going to be nothing but a collection place for the panhandlers.

Take a good look at the budget on the schools. The schools like Columbus are so top heavy with useless bureaucrats that are there for no other reason than to just collect a pay check, and BOY do they collect pay!

There are LOTS of places to cut the fat out of Ohio's budget, especially since Strickland went on a Obama like spending spree.

Ohio Republicans were FAR from perferct, but at least we had the rainy day fund. Now we got nothing but debt.

When you or I are in debt, WE CUT SPENDING, we don't decide to go on a pot bender.

So let's cut spending. There are plenty of places to do it without legalizing pot.

And before you say it, NO, LEGALIZING POT WOULD NOT SAVE US MONEY.

California tried to do that, and the money they spent defending themselves against the federal government wasn't exactly "cost effective."

It's a bad idea, all around.

What about decriminalizing other behaviors? Prostitution, for starters.

What's should be done about the gaping hole in state pension plans?

How will TPS survive 4 years during which she has to have substantive discussions about issues and cannot simply bitch about Democrats or liberals?

What is this crap about "decriminalizing?"

How does that "save money?" They don't put prostitutes in prison anyway. So how is that a big money saver?

You think it helps an economy to have street walkers running down your neighborhood? Did you see how the economy of Times Square improved when Rudy ran them off from there?

And the REASON there is a gaping hole in state pensions is the same reason with the unions. Because the unions made deals that were not sustainable.

Now we are supposed to bail them out?

Let them fail or privatize them.

And how am I simply bitching about liberals by pointing out that stupidity like Strickland's light rail project got us into this mess.

I am NOT just saying Democrats are bad, I am giving REASONS why I oppose Democrats.

It's certainly more sustantive than the idea legalizing pot will fix our problem. (How stupid!)

Ever heard the expression "there ought to be a law", TPS? EVERY criminal statute drives up the cost of public protection and dilutes the resources available to handle existing crimes. There is NO reason we cannot tolerate decriminalizing marijuana and prostitution, and this is one of my objections (albeit not a high level one) to criminalizing abortion again....we cannot afford all these criminal laws.

BTW, marijuana is not legal in California. Medical marijuana is, and I doubt much that state employees diverted to defend any action brought against California by the federal government cost near what the detection, arrest, trial, conviction, punishment, tracking, etc. of the people who used dope but were immune from criminal sanction would have cost. I defy you to find any mainstream newspaper report alleging any differently.

The crimes I care about the most have to do with violence against persons and fraud. I'd even be willing to look at alternatives to jail for deadbeat parents. We are using the most expensive government tools available to modify behavior we object to -- we need to search for less expensive ones or else consider just living with it.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Ohio and most other states are in financial difficulty because revenues are down.

Sales taxes are, I don't doubt, down considerably in OH, just like they are everywhere else.

So the Rs come in promising not to raise taxes.

Okay I can understand why they don't want taxes raised. Nobody does.

But Ohio has obligations to pay its debts.

Among those obligations are the pensions of people who served the state of Ohion and they had a CONTRACT with the state, too, didn't they?.

How does one who claims that he is a conservativem and one who believes in personal responsibility simply say that the solution is to blow that CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION off?

That doesn't sound like conservatism to me.

That sounds like you're telling the State of OHIO not to honor its contractual obligations.

And if the state of Ohio doesn't pay its debts why should any of the citizens pay their debts

ARe you guys really sure you're conservatives?

You read more like anarchists to me.

You know what anarchists really are, right?

They're criminals who have a philosophy of selfishness that informs them that they have no obligation to obey laws of society.

FYI contracts are legal documents.

I am aware a contract is a legal document, editec. As I have said, impossibility is always a defense to breach. I'm UNWILLING to divert the ginormous number of dollars into the state pensions it will take to fund the failures of years past to contribute realistic amounts. I am UNWILLING for the state employee to be elevated above any other citizen, including the poor. I am UNWILLING to continue to promise a retirement standard of living to state employees that most citizens cannot even aspire to during their working years.

And before you call me any more names, it's my ox getting gored. This crisis also exists in Florida, where I spent my working life and where my pension is paid from state funds as well.

That's right, buddy -- I am advocating for a slash and burn back to realistic levels of state employee retirement benefits even though I'll be a burn victim myself. I knew when I retired the state could not sustain the level of payments it promised and I have been making plans accordingly......we ALL need to adapt, not just state employees.

But they are certainly not immune from the new economic realties, either.

First thing that needs to be done is to CUT taxes, to attract businesses back to Ohio.

If *I* were Gov the first thing I would do is declare Ohio a tax free zone for any businesses wishing to come here.

I would also make Ohio a right to work state.

The tax dollars would more be made up in the growing number of those employed by businesses attracted to set up in Ohio.

That alone, would do a lot to fix the hole in the budget.

Next is to privatize the pensions.

Next I would get rid of the public employees altogether and let private companies willing to compete do the jobs.

I mean, that's only the beginning. Oh, if I were gov, would I totally turn around that state.

And don't even get me started with COTA, the schools, etc.

 

[teapartysamurai]

What about decriminalizing other behaviors? Prostitution, for starters.

What's should be done about the gaping hole in state pension plans?

How will TPS survive 4 years during which she has to have substantive discussions about issues and cannot simply bitch about Democrats or liberals?

What is this crap about "decriminalizing?"

How does that "save money?" They don't put prostitutes in prison anyway. So how is that a big money saver?

You think it helps an economy to have street walkers running down your neighborhood? Did you see how the economy of Times Square improved when Rudy ran them off from there?

And the REASON there is a gaping hole in state pensions is the same reason with the unions. Because the unions made deals that were not sustainable.

Now we are supposed to bail them out?

Let them fail or privatize them.

And how am I simply bitching about liberals by pointing out that stupidity like Strickland's light rail project got us into this mess.

I am NOT just saying Democrats are bad, I am giving REASONS why I oppose Democrats.

It's certainly more sustantive than the idea legalizing pot will fix our problem. (How stupid!)

Ever heard the expression "there ought to be a law", TPS? EVERY criminal statute drives up the cost of public protection and dilutes the resources available to handle existing crimes. There is NO reason we cannot tolerate decriminalizing marijuana and prostitution, and this is one of my objections (albeit not a high level one) to criminalizing abortion again....we cannot afford all these criminal laws.

BTW, marijuana is not legal in California. Medical marijuana is, and I doubt much that state employees diverted to defend any action brought against California by the federal government cost near what the detection, arrest, trial, conviction, punishment, tracking, etc. of the people who used dope but were immune from criminal sanction would have cost. I defy you to find any mainstream newspaper report alleging any differently.

The crimes I care about the most have to do with violence against persons and fraud. I'd even be willing to look at alternatives to jail for deadbeat parents. We are using the most expensive government tools available to modify behavior we object to -- we need to search for less expensive ones or else consider just living with it.

Yeah, well medical marijuana is just a con to get around the law.

And if prostitution is so great explain why getting rid of it, in Time's Square helped revitalize that area.

I don't think Ohio is interested in becoming Sweden.

We could have the fire department only take care of less expensive fires as well, but that's hardly the point.

There are far more intelligent things we can do to fix this state than turn it into pothead and bimbo central.

 

[Cuyo]

Ohio and most other states are in financial difficulty because revenues are down.

Sales taxes are, I don't doubt, down considerably in OH, just like they are everywhere else.

So the Rs come in promising not to raise taxes.

Okay I can understand why they don't want taxes raised. Nobody does.

But Ohio has obligations to pay its debts.

Among those obligations are the pensions of people who served the state of Ohion and they had a CONTRACT with the state, too, didn't they?.

How does one who claims that he is a conservativem and one who believes in personal responsibility simply say that the solution is to blow that CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION off?

That doesn't sound like conservatism to me.

That sounds like you're telling the State of OHIO not to honor its contractual obligations.

And if the state of Ohio doesn't pay its debts why should any of the citizens pay their debts

ARe you guys really sure you're conservatives?

You read more like anarchists to me.

You know what anarchists really are, right?

They're criminals who have a philosophy of selfishness that informs them that they have no obligation to obey laws of society.

FYI contracts are legal documents.

I am aware a contract is a legal document, editec. As I have said, impossibility is always a defense to breach. I'm UNWILLING to divert the ginormous number of dollars into the state pensions it will take to fund the failures of years past to contribute realistic amounts. I am UNWILLING for the state employee to be elevated above any other citizen, including the poor. I am UNWILLING to continue to promise a retirement standard of living to state employees that most citizens cannot even aspire to during their working years.

And before you call me any more names, it's my ox getting gored. This crisis also exists in Florida, where I spent my working life and where my pension is paid from state funds as well.

That's right, buddy -- I am advocating for a slash and burn back to realistic levels of state employee retirement benefits even though I'll be a burn victim myself. I knew when I retired the state could not sustain the level of payments it promised and I have been making plans accordingly......we ALL need to adapt, not just state employees.

But they are certainly not immune from the new economic realties, either.

First thing that needs to be done is to CUT taxes, to attract businesses back to Ohio.

If *I* were Gov the first thing I would do is declare Ohio a tax free zone for any businesses wishing to come here.

This is like a fucking religion to you people.

"Budget deficit? First thing you need to do is reduce your income."

Even if it worked out in the end, you realize they'd have to go further into debt first, right? And what attracts a business to Ohio rather than another business tax-haven state?

 

[Madeline]

What is this crap about "decriminalizing?"

How does that "save money?" They don't put prostitutes in prison anyway. So how is that a big money saver?

You think it helps an economy to have street walkers running down your neighborhood? Did you see how the economy of Times Square improved when Rudy ran them off from there?

And the REASON there is a gaping hole in state pensions is the same reason with the unions. Because the unions made deals that were not sustainable.

Now we are supposed to bail them out?

Let them fail or privatize them.

And how am I simply bitching about liberals by pointing out that stupidity like Strickland's light rail project got us into this mess.

I am NOT just saying Democrats are bad, I am giving REASONS why I oppose Democrats.

It's certainly more sustantive than the idea legalizing pot will fix our problem. (How stupid!)

Ever heard the expression "there ought to be a law", TPS? EVERY criminal statute drives up the cost of public protection and dilutes the resources available to handle existing crimes. There is NO reason we cannot tolerate decriminalizing marijuana and prostitution, and this is one of my objections (albeit not a high level one) to criminalizing abortion again....we cannot afford all these criminal laws.

BTW, marijuana is not legal in California. Medical marijuana is, and I doubt much that state employees diverted to defend any action brought against California by the federal government cost near what the detection, arrest, trial, conviction, punishment, tracking, etc. of the people who used dope but were immune from criminal sanction would have cost. I defy you to find any mainstream newspaper report alleging any differently.

The crimes I care about the most have to do with violence against persons and fraud. I'd even be willing to look at alternatives to jail for deadbeat parents. We are using the most expensive government tools available to modify behavior we object to -- we need to search for less expensive ones or else consider just living with it.

Yeah, well medical marijuana is just a con to get around the law.

And if prostitution is so great explain why getting rid of it, in Time's Square helped revitalize that area.

I don't think Ohio is interested in becoming Sweden.

We could have the fire department only take care of less expensive fires as well, but that's hardly the point.

There are far more intelligent things we can do to fix this state than turn it into pothead and bimbo central.

My sense is the only proposal that appeals to a tea bagger involves cutting off aid to the poor.

Surprise me then, TPS. What's your magic $8 Billion bullet?

From where I sit, hungry kids are worse than hos and potheads.....I suppose you have different priorities?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well, if you believe conservative logic, and mathematics,

Ohio should just cut its state income tax -

that will cause an increase in revenue to the state and wipe out the 8 billion dollar deficit.

 

[Madeline]

I am aware a contract is a legal document, editec. As I have said, impossibility is always a defense to breach. I'm UNWILLING to divert the ginormous number of dollars into the state pensions it will take to fund the failures of years past to contribute realistic amounts. I am UNWILLING for the state employee to be elevated above any other citizen, including the poor. I am UNWILLING to continue to promise a retirement standard of living to state employees that most citizens cannot even aspire to during their working years.

And before you call me any more names, it's my ox getting gored. This crisis also exists in Florida, where I spent my working life and where my pension is paid from state funds as well.

That's right, buddy -- I am advocating for a slash and burn back to realistic levels of state employee retirement benefits even though I'll be a burn victim myself. I knew when I retired the state could not sustain the level of payments it promised and I have been making plans accordingly......we ALL need to adapt, not just state employees.

But they are certainly not immune from the new economic realties, either.

First thing that needs to be done is to CUT taxes, to attract businesses back to Ohio.

If *I* were Gov the first thing I would do is declare Ohio a tax free zone for any businesses wishing to come here.

This is like a fucking religion to you people.

"Budget deficit? First thing you need to do is reduce your income."

Even if it worked out in the end, you realize they'd have to go further into debt first, right? And what attracts a business to Ohio rather than another business tax-haven state?

Some tax cuts make sense. I'd support establishing "enterprise zones" where new or expanding businesses could enjoy lower property taxes and income taxes, provided they committed to an Ohio presence for X number of years and to hiring certain disadvantaged workers.

The Cleveland area, and mebbe the entire state of Ohio, is looking at losing American Greetings. I dun like being bent over a chair, but if they leave it will kill the small inner-ring suburban city where the company currently has their plant. This is exactly when all taxes should be put on the table for discussion -- that city just passed a school levy (good on them for caring about kids, but someone has to pay these higher property taxes) that only exaserbates the problem.

American Greetings' indecision over headquarters worries Brooklyn small businesses | cleveland.com

The fact is, Ohio has to compete successfully with states like Florida which has no income tax and never will. Not only is the worker taxed, but so is the company -- and these byzantinne rules about taxing people at different rates depending upon where they work vs where they live have to be driving compliance costs up through the roof. (In Ohio, not only the state taxes income, but so does every municipality.)

Ohio needs a planning commission on taxation that is organized with an eye towards developing revenues in a manner that is less offensive to business, and it needs it NOW. We may not be able to step off income taxation tomorrow but we need to at least be sympathetic to the business community being lured away by states with more rational tax systems.

 

[Sarah G]

If Ohio had just kept investing in collectable coins....

it begins.
and is is not going to be fun.
The stimulus money kept them going this long, but no more stimulus.

Of course no more stimulus. Ohio went Republican this year governor and senate. Just throw us into the trash heap for another 2 years...