Ohio Needs $8 Billion -- Brother Can You Spare A Dime?

[Madeline]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Educat...,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

 

[Avatar4321]

What the heck are they paying for that requires $8 billion dollars they don't have?

 

[Charles_Main]

What the heck are they paying for that requires $8 billion dollars they don't have?

If I had to guess. Medicare/Caid Obligations, Pensions, and Government worker Salaries and Benefits.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I see Ohio turning back to blue in approximately 730 days, give or take.

 

[shintao]

When things need to be tightened, the republicans always go for the working poor among you. No surprise here..........................

http://tiny.cc/scl31

 

[Madeline]

State Revenues, all sources:

Income Taxes 0.0 0.0 8.7 3.7 12.4
[+] Social Insurance Taxes 0.0 0.0 7.0 0.0 7.0
[+] Ad-valorem Taxes 0.0 0.0 15.6 14.1 29.7
[+] Fees and Charges 0.0 0.0 8.0 7.8 15.8
[+] Business and Other Revenue 0.0 0.0 11.3 7.3 18.6
[+] Balance 0.0 0.0 -1.5 3.3 1.7
[+] Total Revenue 0.0 0.0 49.0 36.2 85.2

State Expenses, all catagories:

Pensions 0.0 0.0 10.5 0.1 10.6
[+] Health Care 0.0 0.0 15.6 4.9 20.5
[+] Education 0.0 0.0 10.5 23.6 34.1
[+] Defense 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
[+] Welfare 0.0 0.0 7.1 5.4 12.5
[+] Protection 0.0 0.0 3.0 7.0 9.9
[+] Transportation 0.0 0.0 2.6 3.8 6.4
[+] General Government 0.0 0.0 1.4 2.5 3.9
[+] Other Spending 0.0 0.0 2.3 9.4 11.7
[+] Interest 0.0 0.0 1.5 1.8 3.3
[+] Balance 0.0 0.0 -2.3 -2.3 -4.6
[+] Total Spending 0.0 0.0 52.2 56.1 108.4

Federal Spending, State and Local Public Spending for 2010 - Charts

This website lists the same data for all 50 states. If you compare Ohio to states with a high rate of executions, e.g., Florida, you'll see "Public Protection" is a much larger share of their budget. Ohio uses 9.13% of Total Spending on this catagory of expense compared to 11.95% for Florida. Doubtless, none of these figures includes the cost of Appellate Judge time, for consideration of post-execution appeals. When I left Florida, its Supreme Court's time was devoted 50% to death penalty appeals. Not all appeals from all criminal cases -- ONLY death penalty cases.

The other item I think is noteworthy is Pensions. In Ohio, the last budget year had the state spending MORE to contribute to pensions that it did on all of Public Protection -- a whacking 9.77% of Total Spending. Even assuming that funding obligations are fairly stated nowadays (which I dun believe for a moment) that amount is just enormous. The state should convert all its defined benefit plans to defined contribution ones immediately -- including those that are actively paying retirees now -- and then reduce employer matching to a sane level, say 5% of salary or $5,000, whichever is greater. If the state is paying for the health insurance of retirees, that should also be stopped. We are currently treating retired state employees as if they are virtually "still on the payroll" and that we cannot afford......these people are going to have to save for their retirements just as most everyone in the private sector does.

And I mean "all" pensions -- Police, Fire, Teacher -- every employee should feel the pain.

 

[Rozman]

The Dems answer is spend,spend,spend.....Make sure those union workers make top dollar,get their health care for life for them and their family totally paid for,make sure their pensions are paid for by the company.Sweeeeet !.

 

[Avatar4321]

What the heck are they paying for that requires $8 billion dollars they don't have?

If I had to guess. Medicare/Caid Obligations, Pensions, and Government worker Salaries and Benefits.

Looks like you are correct.

At what point do we admit the politicians lied to everyone and there is no money for these things?

 

[Revere]

I see Ohio turning back to blue in approximately 730 days, give or take.

Because the voters will perfer unsustainable spending levels?

 

[Avatar4321]

When things need to be tightened, the republicans always go for the working poor among you. No surprise here..........................

http://tiny.cc/scl31

are you seriously suggesting that people are completely helpless without government handouts?

 

[judyd]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Educat...,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

Is anyone really sitting in jail in Ohio for marijuana or prostitution? Usually there is something else that they have done--SELLING drugs, or theft, or assault, etc. I don't think the state is going broke because of marijuana users.

Anyway, in Maryland this past election, the past governor, Erhlich, was trying again to defeat the current governor, O'Malley. Ehrlich ran on the idea that he didn't raise taxes. Many people pointed out that although he didn't raise taxes, he did raise fees. So this is probably how these republicans in Ohio will handle it. Raise the fees on drivers licenses, contractor licenses, building permits, hunting, fishing permits, marriage licenses--there's a whole slew of "fees" they can raise and then sashay around and claim they didn't raise taxes!

 

[Avatar4321]

I see Ohio turning back to blue in approximately 730 days, give or take.

clearly spending money that they didnt have worked for them in the past. So it will continue to work in the future.

 

[Madeline]

The Dems answer is spend,spend,spend.....Make sure those union workers make top dollar,get their health care for life for them and their family totally paid for,make sure their pensions are paid for by the company.Sweeeeet !.

Rozman, we elected a Republican governor, and the budget under consideration is the state's. It does not include any private company's pension contribution expenses.

 

[HUGGY]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Educat...,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

THAT was unpredictable!!! Madeline runs out of money and magically appears...

 

[Revere]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Educat...,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

Is anyone really sitting in jail in Ohio for marijuana or prostitution? Usually there is something else that they have done--SELLING drugs, or theft, or assault, etc. I don't think the state is going broke because of marijuana users.

Anyway, in Maryland this past election, the past governor, Erhlich, was trying again to defeat the current governor, O'Malley. Ehrlich ran on the idea that he didn't raise taxes. Many people pointed out that although he didn't raise taxes, he did raise fees. So this is probably how these republicans in Ohio will handle it. Raise the fees on drivers licenses, contractor licenses, building permits, hunting, fishing permits, marriage licenses--there's a whole slew of "fees" they can raise and then sashay around and claim they didn't raise taxes!

Maryland is a suburb of DC. I put them in the same bucket of "fucked up beyond all recognition" as New York and California.

Now you got a guy who will raise fees AND taxes.

Happy?

 

[Revere]

The Dems answer is spend,spend,spend.....Make sure those union workers make top dollar,get their health care for life for them and their family totally paid for,make sure their pensions are paid for by the company.Sweeeeet !.

Rozman, we elected a Republican governor, and the budget under consideration is the state's. It does not include any private company's pension contribution expenses.

He means the public employees' unions.

 

[bodecea]

Where are all the Righties saying that Ohio can go to hell?

 

[judyd]

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com



Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Educat...,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

Is anyone really sitting in jail in Ohio for marijuana or prostitution? Usually there is something else that they have done--SELLING drugs, or theft, or assault, etc. I don't think the state is going broke because of marijuana users.

Anyway, in Maryland this past election, the past governor, Erhlich, was trying again to defeat the current governor, O'Malley. Ehrlich ran on the idea that he didn't raise taxes. Many people pointed out that although he didn't raise taxes, he did raise fees. So this is probably how these republicans in Ohio will handle it. Raise the fees on drivers licenses, contractor licenses, building permits, hunting, fishing permits, marriage licenses--there's a whole slew of "fees" they can raise and then sashay around and claim they didn't raise taxes!

Maryland is a suburb of DC. I put them in the same bucket of "fucked up beyond all recognition" as New York and California.

Now you got a guy who will raise fees AND taxes.

Happy?

Yes I am! Ehrlich and his loud mouthed wife were a nightmare for the state. They were two unpleasant people. I would rather keep the higher sales tax than have to put up with those two jerks. He can take his patent leather hair, spray tan, and crawl back under his rock.

 

[Madeline]

What the heck are they paying for that requires $8 billion dollars they don't have?

If I had to guess. Medicare/Caid Obligations, Pensions, and Government worker Salaries and Benefits.

Looks like you are correct.

At what point do we admit the politicians lied to everyone and there is no money for these things?

Ohio's biggest expenses are Education (45.21% of Total Spending) and Health and Welfare (30.44% of Total Spending). I dun feel equipped to comment on specific cuts to Education, but note: there are federal matching dollars associated with Health and Welfare spending at the state level. You make a $1 cut, you actually lose 50+ cents of these dollars.....so the cuts must be greviously deep to achieve the savings we need.

Note: I have been using state and local spending and revenues figures aggregated; because there is so much funded mandates on localities, the state's budget seems clearer to me if discussed this way.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I see Ohio turning back to blue in approximately 730 days, give or take.

Because the voters will perfer unsustainable spending levels?

Because everyone wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.