Ohio Needs $8 Billion -- Brother Can You Spare A Dime?

[uscitizen]

Ahh making people responsible for their own behaviour.
How would we go about that? Everyone seems to be a victim now-a-days.
Good idea and I sure wish we could, that alone would dramatically reduce the need for prisons and courts.

 

[Madeline]

No, first you are qualified and have been hired at the state office building, then you show up and push a pencil for a living wage, which you are owed. You were close, but no monica soaked cigar for you................

You are owed wages and benefits for your work. What I dispute is this idea that after you have vested in your pension, you are owed wages and benefits for life even though you may have stopped working decades earlier.

But as for those wages: IMO, no one working for the government -- and I mean NO ONE -- needs to be paid more than $60,000. You want more, go work for the private sector. Most state and local government salary spreads have two groups: the vastly underpaid and the vastly overpaid. What we need is to eliminate both clusters, and pay more people a living wage....with a tremendous overall cost saving.

I feel the same way about federal employees. Why should anyone get rich off public service?

Ahh, capitalism raises it's ugly head. This argument deserves the same answer the republicans tell Dems about the rich. "Your just jealous of the state worker because he worked hard to get what he has, and you want to take it away from him." You want your cake and eat it as well.

You really don't grasp the logical approach, because you are thinking of yourself-"me," not WE THE PEOPLE. You should rejoice these people are making living wages & benefits & struggle for the day you will as well. You shouldn't be tearing down other peoples fortunes, because it tears your own down eventually It makes it possible for your boss to say you are worth less, the standard of living should be lowered, etc.

It wasn't the state employees fault the budget went to shit, so why pick on them? Want pain? Cut the legislature salaries & benfits & bonuses & perks. Close down the governor mashion, your gov has a home or he can stay in a cheap motel 6. Tell him to move home closer to work like you have to do. The state employees have made a good faith contract, so honor it. If you aren't worth your word, your not worth having a government ~ AND that will solve Ohios problem.

It was not their fault but it is their future payment schedules that are helping break the back of this state. This is an emergency; we CANNOT fund these pensions adequately. CANNOT. It isn't a question of keeping a contract; impossibility is always a defense to breach.

 

[Madeline]

Up the tax on alcohol just like they did cigarettes. That should bring in more money.

People are paying 80 bucks for a carton of smokes now in some areas and in others 11 dollars a pack or over 100 per carton. Why not a higher drinking tax too?

New cigarette tax driving more smokers to black market | KING5.com | Seattle News and Video

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/nyregion/22budget.html

I assume the Pledge not to raise taxes Kasich signed means "all" taxes, even those. Besides, sin taxes are regressive, just as any sales tax is. I do not favor regressive taxation just on general principle.

 

[shintao]

You are owed wages and benefits for your work. What I dispute is this idea that after you have vested in your pension, you are owed wages and benefits for life even though you may have stopped working decades earlier.

But as for those wages: IMO, no one working for the government -- and I mean NO ONE -- needs to be paid more than $60,000. You want more, go work for the private sector. Most state and local government salary spreads have two groups: the vastly underpaid and the vastly overpaid. What we need is to eliminate both clusters, and pay more people a living wage....with a tremendous overall cost saving.

I feel the same way about federal employees. Why should anyone get rich off public service?

Ahh, capitalism raises it's ugly head. This argument deserves the same answer the republicans tell Dems about the rich. "Your just jealous of the state worker because he worked hard to get what he has, and you want to take it away from him." You want your cake and eat it as well.

You really don't grasp the logical approach, because you are thinking of yourself-"me," not WE THE PEOPLE. You should rejoice these people are making living wages & benefits & struggle for the day you will as well. You shouldn't be tearing down other peoples fortunes, because it tears your own down eventually It makes it possible for your boss to say you are worth less, the standard of living should be lowered, etc.

It wasn't the state employees fault the budget went to shit, so why pick on them? Want pain? Cut the legislature salaries & benfits & bonuses & perks. Close down the governor mashion, your gov has a home or he can stay in a cheap motel 6. Tell him to move home closer to work like you have to do. The state employees have made a good faith contract, so honor it. If you aren't worth your word, your not worth having a government ~ AND that will solve Ohios problem.

It was not their fault but it is their future payment schedules that are helping break the back of this state. This is an emergency; we CANNOT fund these pensions adequately. CANNOT. It isn't a question of keeping a contract; impossibility is always a defense to breach.

Cut other areas then where promises were not made. For instance I notice the Lobbyists and special interests are not being cut, WHY? Probably because this isn't important? IF your word is good to them, it should be good to your workers.

"However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax."

But if it is truely an emergency, just shut government down 4 days a week until you balance the budget. That way everybody gets the same amount of pain.

 

[shintao]

What I failed to mention, in speaking of logical, the Germans pay the same amount of taxes as we do, yet they retire with full medical, and full wages at the time of retirement, not a flimsy pension to scrape by on. Every American deserves that, so work toward making that every Americans goal.

Germans have better employment and thus pay more in taxes.

No, not so. Germans pay about 2-3% more than Americans on income, but work less hours, have far better benefits, twice as many paid vacation days, mandatory 45 day annual vacation, and full wage retirement & health care. Figure that in to your taxes and see who pays more. Plus, they basically pay one tax, where Americans pay 3 or so taxes, feds, state, local & sales, and ongoing property taxes. Germans pay taxes ONLY when they buy their home, 1 time. Figure that annual tax in. Fact is Americans are getting screwed and don't seem to care.

 

[Madeline]

Ahh, capitalism raises it's ugly head. This argument deserves the same answer the republicans tell Dems about the rich. "Your just jealous of the state worker because he worked hard to get what he has, and you want to take it away from him." You want your cake and eat it as well.

You really don't grasp the logical approach, because you are thinking of yourself-"me," not WE THE PEOPLE. You should rejoice these people are making living wages & benefits & struggle for the day you will as well. You shouldn't be tearing down other peoples fortunes, because it tears your own down eventually It makes it possible for your boss to say you are worth less, the standard of living should be lowered, etc.

It wasn't the state employees fault the budget went to shit, so why pick on them? Want pain? Cut the legislature salaries & benfits & bonuses & perks. Close down the governor mashion, your gov has a home or he can stay in a cheap motel 6. Tell him to move home closer to work like you have to do. The state employees have made a good faith contract, so honor it. If you aren't worth your word, your not worth having a government ~ AND that will solve Ohios problem.

It was not their fault but it is their future payment schedules that are helping break the back of this state. This is an emergency; we CANNOT fund these pensions adequately. CANNOT. It isn't a question of keeping a contract; impossibility is always a defense to breach.

Cut other areas then where promises were not made. For instance I notice the Lobbyists and special interests are not being cut, WHY? Probably because this isn't important? IF your word is good to them, it should be good to your workers.

"However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax."

But if it is truely an emergency, just shut government down 4 days a week until you balance the budget. That way everybody gets the same amount of pain.

Shinato, you seem to have missed my point. There is no way to fund these pensions as they now exist unless Ohio taxpayers dedicate all available future dollars to that liability (and mebbe not then either). NONE. This is a crisis in virtually every state, in part because the stock market nose dived and in greater part because in years past, legislators found crooked actuaries who were willing to severely understate current contribution obligations so the state could spend, spend, spend -- and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Why are you so protective of these employees, may I ask? Me, I place the poor at the top of the heap, then public safety, then education.

 

[jimbetty123]

OLUMBUS, Ohio – Ohio lawmakers are finally getting off square one in seeking solutions to one of the toughest riddles in recent memory: How to fill an $8 billion hole expected in the 2012-13 state budget.

After 11 months of inaction, lawmakers finally reached an agreement last week on a pair of meetings to kickstart the work of the Ohio Budget Planning and Management Commission.
The six-member panel was named last July -- largely born out of Republican frustration with the huge amount of one-time money used during the last budget merry-go-round -- but it has yet to meet. The panel is charged with making recommendations about how best to address the looming budget gap.
How lawmakers handle this crisis could make or break the state's economic future, say business groups and other observers.
Lawmakers are behind the $8 billion ball because the current state budget uses more than $4 billion worth of federal stimulus money as well as about $4 billion worth of collective raids on the tobacco fund, state library fund, state school facilities commission, an income tax freeze, spending lapses and debt restructuring. Next time around, lawmakers and the governor will face hard choices on spending less money or bringing in more.
Gov. Ted Strickland has repeatedly said he will return to Washington to lobby for another round of stimulus funding if Ohio's economic tailspin doesn't end, but an $8 billion handout from the federal government doesn't seem likely. And Strickland, a Democrat, faces a stiff reelection challenge from Republican John Kasich, a former Columbus-area congressman.
"The next state budget will be the most difficult in recent memory," said Sen. Shannon Jones, a Springboro Republican panel member who has been pressing Democrats to meet, in a news release. "I am hopeful that this commission will analyze big-picture reforms before the crunch of the traditional budget deliberations. I look forward to working with all of the members of the commission to ensure a rigorous and thoughtful examination of all state spending."
The initial meeting on June 29 will feature a presentation from the non-partisan Ohio Legislative Service Commission on the state's financial picture. On July 7, the state Office of Budget and Management and the National Conference of State Legislatures will give separate presentations.
Top state budget officials, including budget director Pari Sabety and tax commissioner Rich Levin, are expected to address the committee.
"I am hopeful that this commission will foster a productive, bipartisan dialog to address the very serious challenges ahead," Rep. Vernon Sykes, an Akron Democrat who is on the panel, said in the news release.
Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have blamed one another for the delays in getting the panel to meet. Democrats have privately expressed fears that Republicans will use the hearings as an opportunity to aim partisan fire at Strickland.

 

[teapartysamurai]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Education $13,851,625,050 $13,836,359,709 $27,687,984,759 Health and Human Services $24,319,166,296 $25,211,761,939 $49,530,928,235 Justice and Public Protection $2,218,786,154 $2,202,006,316 $4,420,792,470 General Government/Tax Relief $12,892,377,781 $13,064,342,787 $25,956,720,568 Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches $591,001,591 $587,680,662 $1,178,682,252 Transportation and Development $1,197,278,245 $1,174,419,750 $2,371,697,996 Environment and Natural Resources $606,251,971 $548,179,248 $1,154,431,218 TOTAL $55,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

Has it ever occured to you to simply cut spending on such stupid boondoggles as Strickland's stupid "light rail" project?

Instead you want Ohio to become California where they are such pot heads they vote in people like Jerry Brown?

I moved to Ohio from California for a reason. I don't want to live in California. I want to live in Ohio.

I mean no wonder California voted against legalizing pot. Why bother? They already are medicated up to their eyebrows with "medical marijuana."

NO THANKS!

Simply CUT spending! I can think of a lot places where spending could be cut. Like that park they are going to put in downtown (Columbus) that is going to be nothing but a collection place for the panhandlers.

Take a good look at the budget on the schools. The schools like Columbus are so top heavy with useless bureaucrats that are there for no other reason than to just collect a pay check, and BOY do they collect pay!

There are LOTS of places to cut the fat out of Ohio's budget, especially since Strickland went on a Obama like spending spree.

Ohio Republicans were FAR from perferct, but at least we had the rainy day fund. Now we got nothing but debt.

When you or I are in debt, WE CUT SPENDING, we don't decide to go on a pot bender.

So let's cut spending. There are plenty of places to do it without legalizing pot.

And before you say it, NO, LEGALIZING POT WOULD NOT SAVE US MONEY.

California tried to do that, and the money they spent defending themselves against the federal government wasn't exactly "cost effective."

It's a bad idea, all around.

 

[editec]

Ohio and most other states are in financial difficulty because revenues are down.

Sales taxes are, I don't doubt, down considerably in OH, just like they are everywhere else.

So the Rs come in promising not to raise taxes.

Okay I can understand why they don't want taxes raised. Nobody does.

But Ohio has obligations to pay its debts.

Among those obligations are the pensions of people who served the state of Ohion and they had a CONTRACT with the state, too, didn't they?.

How does one who claims that he is a conservativem and one who believes in personal responsibility simply say that the solution is to blow that CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION off?

That doesn't sound like conservatism to me.

That sounds like you're telling the State of OHIO not to honor its contractual obligations.

And if the state of Ohio doesn't pay its debts why should any of the citizens pay their debts

ARe you guys really sure you're conservatives?

You read more like anarchists to me.

You know what anarchists really are, right?

They're criminals who have a philosophy of selfishness that informs them that they have no obligation to obey laws of society.

FYI contracts are legal documents.

 

[skookerasbil]

I see Ohio turning back to blue in approximately 730 days, give or take.

LMAO..........like Ive always said, you have the political IQ of a handball s0n............

Not happening...........GOP goverernor and GOP state legislators now means redistricting. At least in the House, no blue in Ohio until 2010 at the earliest.

 

[Madeline]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Education $13,851,625,050 $13,836,359,709 $27,687,984,759 Health and Human Services $24,319,166,296 $25,211,761,939 $49,530,928,235 Justice and Public Protection $2,218,786,154 $2,202,006,316 $4,420,792,470 General Government/Tax Relief $12,892,377,781 $13,064,342,787 $25,956,720,568 Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches $591,001,591 $587,680,662 $1,178,682,252 Transportation and Development $1,197,278,245 $1,174,419,750 $2,371,697,996 Environment and Natural Resources $606,251,971 $548,179,248 $1,154,431,218 TOTAL $55,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

Has it ever occured to you to simply cut spending on such stupid boondoggles as Strickland's stupid "light rail" project?

Instead you want Ohio to become California where they are such pot heads they vote in people like Jerry Brown?

I moved to Ohio from California for a reason. I don't want to live in California. I want to live in Ohio.

I mean no wonder California voted against legalizing pot. Why bother? They already are medicated up to their eyebrows with "medical marijuana."

NO THANKS!

Simply CUT spending! I can think of a lot places where spending could be cut. Like that park they are going to put in downtown (Columbus) that is going to be nothing but a collection place for the panhandlers.

Take a good look at the budget on the schools. The schools like Columbus are so top heavy with useless bureaucrats that are there for no other reason than to just collect a pay check, and BOY do they collect pay!

There are LOTS of places to cut the fat out of Ohio's budget, especially since Strickland went on a Obama like spending spree.

Ohio Republicans were FAR from perferct, but at least we had the rainy day fund. Now we got nothing but debt.

When you or I are in debt, WE CUT SPENDING, we don't decide to go on a pot bender.

So let's cut spending. There are plenty of places to do it without legalizing pot.

And before you say it, NO, LEGALIZING POT WOULD NOT SAVE US MONEY.

California tried to do that, and the money they spent defending themselves against the federal government wasn't exactly "cost effective."

It's a bad idea, all around.

What about decriminalizing other behaviors? Prostitution, for starters.

What's should be done about the gaping hole in state pension plans?

How will TPS survive 4 years during which she has to have substantive discussions about issues and cannot simply bitch about Democrats or liberals?

 

[Madeline]

Ohio and most other states are in financial difficulty because revenues are down.

Sales taxes are, I don't doubt, down considerably in OH, just like they are everywhere else.

So the Rs come in promising not to raise taxes.

Okay I can understand why they don't want taxes raised. Nobody does.

But Ohio has obligations to pay its debts.

Among those obligations are the pensions of people who served the state of Ohion and they had a CONTRACT with the state, too, didn't they?.

How does one who claims that he is a conservativem and one who believes in personal responsibility simply say that the solution is to blow that CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION off?

That doesn't sound like conservatism to me.

That sounds like you're telling the State of OHIO not to honor its contractual obligations.

And if the state of Ohio doesn't pay its debts why should any of the citizens pay their debts

ARe you guys really sure you're conservatives?

You read more like anarchists to me.

You know what anarchists really are, right?

They're criminals who have a philosophy of selfishness that informs them that they have no obligation to obey laws of society.

FYI contracts are legal documents.

I am aware a contract is a legal document, editec. As I have said, impossibility is always a defense to breach. I'm UNWILLING to divert the ginormous number of dollars into the state pensions it will take to fund the failures of years past to contribute realistic amounts. I am UNWILLING for the state employee to be elevated above any other citizen, including the poor. I am UNWILLING to continue to promise a retirement standard of living to state employees that most citizens cannot even aspire to during their working years.

And before you call me any more names, it's my ox getting gored. This crisis also exists in Florida, where I spent my working life and where my pension is paid from state funds as well.

That's right, buddy -- I am advocating for a slash and burn back to realistic levels of state employee retirement benefits even though I'll be a burn victim myself. I knew when I retired the state could not sustain the level of payments it promised and I have been making plans accordingly......we ALL need to adapt, not just state employees.

But they are certainly not immune from the new economic realties, either.

 

[Madeline]

I see Ohio turning back to blue in approximately 730 days, give or take.

LMAO..........like Ive always said, you have the political IQ of a handball s0n............

Not happening...........GOP goverernor and GOP state legislators now means redistricting. At least in the House, no blue in Ohio until 2010 at the earliest.

What redistricting? These newly-elected GOP-ers have not even taken office yet. What dirty pool do you think they're already up to?

 

[Cuyo]

You just show up at the state office building, push a pencil, and you're owed something?

No, first you are qualified and have been hired at the state office building, then you show up and push a pencil for a living wage, which you are owed. You were close, but no monica soaked cigar for you................

You are owed wages and benefits for your work. What I dispute is this idea that after you have vested in your pension, you are owed wages and benefits for life even though you may have stopped working decades earlier.

But as for those wages: IMO, no one working for the government -- and I mean NO ONE -- needs to be paid more than $60,000. You want more, go work for the private sector. Most state and local government salary spreads have two groups: the vastly underpaid and the vastly overpaid. What we need is to eliminate both clusters, and pay more people a living wage....with a tremendous overall cost saving.

I feel the same way about federal employees. Why should anyone get rich off public service?

The problem is, if government jobs don't pay well (via salary, benefits, et al), they won't attract palatable candidates.

I know... "They don't attract palatable candidates NOW! nyuk nyuk nyuk..." But seriously, I want the best and brightest making decisions that affect all of us. Capping salaries to what today amounts to barely middle class certainly won't help the incompetency situation.

 

[Madeline]

So far, Kasich is not impressing me....

ncoming Republican Gov. John Kasich wrote to outgoing Democratic Gov. Ted Strickland on Monday asking him to immediately cancel all passenger rail contracts to save taxpayer money.

Kasich sent letters to both Strickland and President Barack Obama telling them he doesn’t plan to support developing a passenger line connecting Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland.

“As you are aware, I am opposed to this program and will terminate it upon taking office,” Kasich wrote Strickland. “Given that, I am sure that you will agree that it would simply be wasteful to spend any additional money on this program. At a time when Ohio is facing an approximately $8 billion budget shortfall, every step should be taken to eliminate waste and prevent unnecessary spending.”

Kasich asked the president to be allowed to use the state’s $400 million rail allocation for other things. He said if that’s not possible, the federal government should keep the money to help reduce the federal deficit.

Illinois, other states happy to take rail money | Chicago Breaking Business

Why is Kasich returning a gift of money to the feds and killing a project that would create jobs, help the environment and make Ohio more competitive? Other states, like Illinois and New York, are eagerly lining up for these funds. How is Ohio going to remain competitive with states that have such a system in the works?

This is the very sort of irrationality Ohio cannot afford ATM. Get your shit together, Kasich....I did not send you to Columbus so you could pander to crazy people.

 

[Madeline]

No, first you are qualified and have been hired at the state office building, then you show up and push a pencil for a living wage, which you are owed. You were close, but no monica soaked cigar for you................

You are owed wages and benefits for your work. What I dispute is this idea that after you have vested in your pension, you are owed wages and benefits for life even though you may have stopped working decades earlier.

But as for those wages: IMO, no one working for the government -- and I mean NO ONE -- needs to be paid more than $60,000. You want more, go work for the private sector. Most state and local government salary spreads have two groups: the vastly underpaid and the vastly overpaid. What we need is to eliminate both clusters, and pay more people a living wage....with a tremendous overall cost saving.

I feel the same way about federal employees. Why should anyone get rich off public service?

The problem is, if government jobs don't pay well (via salary, benefits, et al), they won't attract palatable candidates.

I know... "They don't attract palatable candidates NOW! nyuk nyuk nyuk..." But seriously, I want the best and brightest making decisions that affect all of us. Capping salaries to what today amounts to barely middle class certainly won't help the incompetency situation.

Bullshit, Cuyo. Most highly paid government employees could compete for private sector jobs and do not for personal reasons, e.g., they are risk-adverse or they are "high power image needs" people who enjoy what they do far too much to morph into someone's dog on a leash. You think Obama would have a different cabinet line up if those jobs only paid $60,000? I don't....not for one minute.

You risk nothing working for government, and you add nothing to the GDP. Why should we permit such people to grow wealthy on the backs of taxpayers?

BTW, I dun know where you live, but here in Cleveland $60,000 is solidly middle class. I'd be willing to discuss a modifier for government employees who work in very high cost areas of the country (NYC, LA, DC, etc.) but I am quite comfy with that number as a cap. And it should apply to the POTUS, every SCOTUS Justice, etc.

You want wealth? Risk something and make something. You choose safety instead, you should not get wealth.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com



Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Education $13,851,625,050 $13,836,359,709 $27,687,984,759 Health and Human Services $24,319,166,296 $25,211,761,939 $49,530,928,235 Justice and Public Protection $2,218,786,154 $2,202,006,316 $4,420,792,470 General Government/Tax Relief $12,892,377,781 $13,064,342,787 $25,956,720,568 Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches $591,001,591 $587,680,662 $1,178,682,252 Transportation and Development $1,197,278,245 $1,174,419,750 $2,371,697,996 Environment and Natural Resources $606,251,971 $548,179,248 $1,154,431,218 TOTAL $55,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

Has it ever occured to you to simply cut spending on such stupid boondoggles as Strickland's stupid "light rail" project?

Instead you want Ohio to become California where they are such pot heads they vote in people like Jerry Brown?

I moved to Ohio from California for a reason. I don't want to live in California. I want to live in Ohio.

I mean no wonder California voted against legalizing pot. Why bother? They already are medicated up to their eyebrows with "medical marijuana."

NO THANKS!

Simply CUT spending! I can think of a lot places where spending could be cut. Like that park they are going to put in downtown (Columbus) that is going to be nothing but a collection place for the panhandlers.

Take a good look at the budget on the schools. The schools like Columbus are so top heavy with useless bureaucrats that are there for no other reason than to just collect a pay check, and BOY do they collect pay!

There are LOTS of places to cut the fat out of Ohio's budget, especially since Strickland went on a Obama like spending spree.

Ohio Republicans were FAR from perferct, but at least we had the rainy day fund. Now we got nothing but debt.

When you or I are in debt, WE CUT SPENDING, we don't decide to go on a pot bender.

So let's cut spending. There are plenty of places to do it without legalizing pot.

And before you say it, NO, LEGALIZING POT WOULD NOT SAVE US MONEY.

California tried to do that, and the money they spent defending themselves against the federal government wasn't exactly "cost effective."

It's a bad idea, all around.

What about decriminalizing other behaviors? Prostitution, for starters.

What's should be done about the gaping hole in state pension plans?

How will TPS survive 4 years during which she has to have substantive discussions about issues and cannot simply bitch about Democrats or liberals?

What is this crap about "decriminalizing?"

How does that "save money?" They don't put prostitutes in prison anyway. So how is that a big money saver?

You think it helps an economy to have street walkers running down your neighborhood? Did you see how the economy of Times Square improved when Rudy ran them off from there?

And the REASON there is a gaping hole in state pensions is the same reason with the unions. Because the unions made deals that were not sustainable.

Now we are supposed to bail them out?

Let them fail or privatize them.

And how am I simply bitching about liberals by pointing out that stupidity like Strickland's light rail project got us into this mess.

I am NOT just saying Democrats are bad, I am giving REASONS why I oppose Democrats.

It's certainly more sustantive than the idea legalizing pot will fix our problem. (How stupid!)

 

[American Horse]

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- With Gov.-elect John Kasich and soon-to-be House Speaker Bill Batchelder rising to power in January, a no-new-taxes pledge signed by both suddenly has huge implications for the next state budget.

The pledge requires signers to "oppose and vote against any and all efforts to raise taxes." It was signed by Kasich, Batchelder and at least 21 other Republicans beginning new terms in the Ohio House in January, including Rep. Tim Grendell, the state senator from Chester Township who will jump chambers because of term limits.

The pledge, created by the group Americans for Tax Reform, became a virtual must-sign for Republicans running for Congress across America.

But down at the Ohio Statehouse -- where Kasich and GOP legislative leaders will hammer out a plan to address a shortfall in the next state budget that could approach $8 billion -- the pledge could have the most profound implications.

Unlike the federal budget, the state budget must be in balance when the two-year spending blueprint is passed next summer. So taking tax hikes completely off the table limits the options available to policy makers.

"He's not going to increase the tax burden on Ohioans, period," said Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols.

However, that doesn't mean that Kasich couldn't eliminate some loopholes in the state tax code that give exemptions to special interests. For example, financial planners and lobbyists are exempt from paying state sales tax.

Under the terms of the pledge, Kasich could eliminate some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions in the state tax code -- but there's a big catch. He would have to offset those moves with tax cuts, so he wouldn't gain a cent of new revenue.

"John said throughout the campaign that everything is under the microscope," Nichols said.

Anti-tax pledges add intrigue to upcoming Ohio budget process | cleveland.com

Ohio is in the middle of a two-year budget cycle. The governor signed the FY2010-11 state budget, which included general fund spending of $25.9 billion over the two years,[1] on July 17, 2009.[2] The state finished the first year of the current budget cycle on June 30, 2010, in the black. However, many sources, both inside and outside the state government, project a structural budget shortfall that could exceed $8 billion for the next two-year budget that would start on July 1, 2011.[3] The current budget utilizes $8.4 billion of one-time funds.[4]

Function FY2010 FY2011 Total Educat...,676,487,088 $56,624,750,411 $112,301,237,498

Ohio state budget - Sunshine Review

(Believe me, I have tried hard to google the different types and amounts of State of Ohio revenues without success....if you know of a web site that has this data, please advise.)

So what has been suggested? Increasing fees on Ohioans for such things as hunting licenses. But enough to generate $8 Billion? We'd have to have fees so high, only a millionaire could afford to pay them.

My idea is, go through the criminal code and decriminalize whatever behavior this state's residents can tolerate. Such things as marijuana and prostitution (I would create a new crime regarding creating an unsafe condition in one's neighborhood, but failing this new standard applying, the behaviors should be legal.) As to each such behavior newly decriminalized, release from custody or probation and parole any resident who was charged under that former crime and automatically expunge their record. This state spent $49,530,928,235 on Justice and Public Protection in the last billing cycle; it seems likely and/or possible that a wide-ranging decriminalization plan would be able to shave 16% off that amount. In this same vein, eliminate the death penalty and associated costs will fall considerably, as LWOP is much less expensive.

Your thoughts?

Give Kasich a chance!
10 Lowest Ranked State Economies:
Oregon - http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-or.pdf
Ohio - http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-oh.pdf
Pennsylvania - http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-pa.pdf
Maine - http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-me.pdf
Rhode Island - http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-ri.pdf
California - http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-ca.pdf
Illinois – http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-il.pdf
Vermont – http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-vt.pdf
New York - http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/tax/10rsps/rsps10-ny.pdf

 

[editec]

Ohio and most other states are in financial difficulty because revenues are down.

Sales taxes are, I don't doubt, down considerably in OH, just like they are everywhere else.

So the Rs come in promising not to raise taxes.

Okay I can understand why they don't want taxes raised. Nobody does.

But Ohio has obligations to pay its debts.

Among those obligations are the pensions of people who served the state of Ohion and they had a CONTRACT with the state, too, didn't they?.

How does one who claims that he is a conservativem and one who believes in personal responsibility simply say that the solution is to blow that CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION off?

That doesn't sound like conservatism to me.

That sounds like you're telling the State of OHIO not to honor its contractual obligations.

And if the state of Ohio doesn't pay its debts why should any of the citizens pay their debts

ARe you guys really sure you're conservatives?

You read more like anarchists to me.

You know what anarchists really are, right?

They're criminals who have a philosophy of selfishness that informs them that they have no obligation to obey laws of society.

FYI contracts are legal documents.

I am aware a contract is a legal document, editec. As I have said, impossibility is always a defense to breach. I'm UNWILLING to divert the ginormous number of dollars into the state pensions it will take to fund the failures of years past to contribute realistic amounts. I am UNWILLING for the state employee to be elevated above any other citizen, including the poor. I am UNWILLING to continue to promise a retirement standard of living to state employees that most citizens cannot even aspire to during their working years.

And before you call me any more names, it's my ox getting gored. This crisis also exists in Florida, where I spent my working life and where my pension is paid from state funds as well.

That's right, buddy -- I am advocating for a slash and burn back to realistic levels of state employee retirement benefits even though I'll be a burn victim myself. I knew when I retired the state could not sustain the level of payments it promised and I have been making plans accordingly......we ALL need to adapt, not just state employees.

But they are certainly not immune from the new economic realties, either.

Mad, it isn't just Ohio facing this problem.

Every state local and Federal government employee has too good pension benefits.

Are they, or are they not entitled to what they WORKED for and what they were promised?

If you say no, then really...is any contract worth the paper its written on?

If that pensioner isn't entitled to his pension is he free from paying his contractually obligated debts, too?

Incidently, I don't have a pension. Never have.

And I have long compainted that government workers (state local and federal) has contracts that were too generous.

But those contracts were signed, people worked according to them and now we shouldn't honor those obligations?

These are WORKING people, you know.

 

[Madeline]

Has it ever occured to you to simply cut spending on such stupid boondoggles as Strickland's stupid "light rail" project?

Instead you want Ohio to become California where they are such pot heads they vote in people like Jerry Brown?

I moved to Ohio from California for a reason. I don't want to live in California. I want to live in Ohio.

I mean no wonder California voted against legalizing pot. Why bother? They already are medicated up to their eyebrows with "medical marijuana."

NO THANKS!

Simply CUT spending! I can think of a lot places where spending could be cut. Like that park they are going to put in downtown (Columbus) that is going to be nothing but a collection place for the panhandlers.

Take a good look at the budget on the schools. The schools like Columbus are so top heavy with useless bureaucrats that are there for no other reason than to just collect a pay check, and BOY do they collect pay!

There are LOTS of places to cut the fat out of Ohio's budget, especially since Strickland went on a Obama like spending spree.

Ohio Republicans were FAR from perferct, but at least we had the rainy day fund. Now we got nothing but debt.

When you or I are in debt, WE CUT SPENDING, we don't decide to go on a pot bender.

So let's cut spending. There are plenty of places to do it without legalizing pot.

And before you say it, NO, LEGALIZING POT WOULD NOT SAVE US MONEY.

California tried to do that, and the money they spent defending themselves against the federal government wasn't exactly "cost effective."

It's a bad idea, all around.

What about decriminalizing other behaviors? Prostitution, for starters.

What's should be done about the gaping hole in state pension plans?

How will TPS survive 4 years during which she has to have substantive discussions about issues and cannot simply bitch about Democrats or liberals?

What is this crap about "decriminalizing?"

How does that "save money?" They don't put prostitutes in prison anyway. So how is that a big money saver?

You think it helps an economy to have street walkers running down your neighborhood? Did you see how the economy of Times Square improved when Rudy ran them off from there?

And the REASON there is a gaping hole in state pensions is the same reason with the unions. Because the unions made deals that were not sustainable.

Now we are supposed to bail them out?

Let them fail or privatize them.

And how am I simply bitching about liberals by pointing out that stupidity like Strickland's light rail project got us into this mess.

I am NOT just saying Democrats are bad, I am giving REASONS why I oppose Democrats.

It's certainly more sustantive than the idea legalizing pot will fix our problem. (How stupid!)

I'll address your points about the criminal code later, but for now, explain to me why Ohio is better off without federal dollars to fund a light rail system connecting its three largest cities. I'm all ears.

Should Kasich also refuse federal dollars for Medicaid and ADFC? For roads?

We need money and jobs, TPS. What part of that is too difficult for you tea baggers to grasp?