Occupy Phoenix Asks: When Should You Shoot a Cop?

[MikeK]

They are being distributed at OWS. I have no evidence that they are not anyone other than OWS.

When there is any evidence that the pamphlets were distributed by someone other than OWS, I'll agree they were not part of OWS. There is none.

They were distributed at OWS and at two separate OWS locations that we know of.

(Excerpt)

According to attorney Brian Glick in his book War at Home, the FBI used four main methods during COINTELPRO:

1.Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.

2.Psychological Warfare From the Outside: The FBI and police used a myriad of other "dirty tricks" to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists.

(Close)

Read more here: COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per the above; I'm old enough to remember an individual named Daniel Segretti who was Richard Nixon's "dirty tricks" specialist. One of the things he did was to write and print up pamphlets with content that was misleading and damaging to Nixon's political opponents and surreptitiously distribute them at opponents' rallies.

So you should know that until there is some evidence that OWS is the source of the pamphlets at issue their discovery should be viewed with suspicion. Keep in mind that the size and persistance of the OWS movement is such that it's gotten the attention of those who are sufficiently concerned as to resort to such "dirty tricks."

 

[Si modo]

They are being distributed at OWS. I have no evidence that they are not anyone other than OWS.

When there is any evidence that the pamphlets were distributed by someone other than OWS, I'll agree they were not part of OWS. There is none.

They were distributed at OWS and at two separate OWS locations that we know of.

(Excerpt)

According to attorney Brian Glick in his book War at Home, the FBI used four main methods during COINTELPRO:

1.Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.

2.Psychological Warfare From the Outside: The FBI and police used a myriad of other "dirty tricks" to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists.

(Close)

Read more here: COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per the above; I'm old enough to remember an individual named Daniel Segretti who was Richard Nixon's "dirty tricks" specialist. One of the things he did was to write and print up pamphlets with content that was misleading and damaging to Nixon's political opponents and surreptitiously distribute them at opponents' rallies.

So you should know that until there is some evidence that OWS is the source of the pamphlets at issue their discovery should be viewed with suspicion. Keep in mind that the size and persistance of the OSW movement is such that it's gotten the attention of those who are sufficiently concerned as to resort to such "dirty tricks."

Possibility is not evidence.

You have no evidence that the pamphlets handed out at the OWS were put there by someone other than the OWS.

That's what I asked for, in case you didn't grasp that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They are being distributed at OWS. I have no evidence that they are not anyone other than OWS.

When there is any evidence that the pamphlets were distributed by someone other than OWS, I'll agree they were not part of OWS. There is none.

They were distributed at OWS and at two separate OWS locations that we know of.

(Excerpt)

According to attorney Brian Glick in his book War at Home, the FBI used four main methods during COINTELPRO:

1.Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.

2.Psychological Warfare From the Outside: The FBI and police used a myriad of other "dirty tricks" to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists.

(Close)

Read more here: COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per the above; I'm old enough to remember an individual named Daniel Segretti who was Richard Nixon's "dirty tricks" specialist. One of the things he did was to write and print up pamphlets with content that was misleading and damaging to Nixon's political opponents and surreptitiously distribute them at opponents' rallies.

So you should know that until there is some evidence that OWS is the source of the pamphlets at issue their discovery should be viewed with suspicion. Keep in mind that the size and persistance of the OSW movement is such that it's gotten the attention of those who are sufficiently concerned as to resort to such "dirty tricks."

So Obama's FBI is busy framing the OWS?

 

[bodecea]

They are being distributed at OWS. I have no evidence that they are not anyone other than OWS.

When there is any evidence that the pamphlets were distributed by someone other than OWS, I'll agree they were not part of OWS. There is none.

They were distributed at OWS and at two separate OWS locations that we know of.

(Excerpt)

According to attorney Brian Glick in his book War at Home, the FBI used four main methods during COINTELPRO:

1.Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.

2.Psychological Warfare From the Outside: The FBI and police used a myriad of other "dirty tricks" to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists.

(Close)

Read more here: COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per the above; I'm old enough to remember an individual named Daniel Segretti who was Richard Nixon's "dirty tricks" specialist. One of the things he did was to write and print up pamphlets with content that was misleading and damaging to Nixon's political opponents and surreptitiously distribute them at opponents' rallies.

So you should know that until there is some evidence that OWS is the source of the pamphlets at issue their discovery should be viewed with suspicion. Keep in mind that the size and persistance of the OSW movement is such that it's gotten the attention of those who are sufficiently concerned as to resort to such "dirty tricks."

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

 

[Si modo]

They are being distributed at OWS. I have no evidence that they are not anyone other than OWS.

When there is any evidence that the pamphlets were distributed by someone other than OWS, I'll agree they were not part of OWS. There is none.

They were distributed at OWS and at two separate OWS locations that we know of.

(Excerpt)

According to attorney Brian Glick in his book War at Home, the FBI used four main methods during COINTELPRO:

1.Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.

2.Psychological Warfare From the Outside: The FBI and police used a myriad of other "dirty tricks" to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists.

(Close)

Read more here: COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per the above; I'm old enough to remember an individual named Daniel Segretti who was Richard Nixon's "dirty tricks" specialist. One of the things he did was to write and print up pamphlets with content that was misleading and damaging to Nixon's political opponents and surreptitiously distribute them at opponents' rallies.

So you should know that until there is some evidence that OWS is the source of the pamphlets at issue their discovery should be viewed with suspicion. Keep in mind that the size and persistance of the OSW movement is such that it's gotten the attention of those who are sufficiently concerned as to resort to such "dirty tricks."

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

Not ignored.

Is there any evidence that the pamphlets were put AT OWS by anyone other THAN OWS?

Nope, no so far.

Possibility is not evidence of much of anything but possibility.

 

[Salt Jones]

(Excerpt)

According to attorney Brian Glick in his book War at Home, the FBI used four main methods during COINTELPRO:

1.Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.

2.Psychological Warfare From the Outside: The FBI and police used a myriad of other "dirty tricks" to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists.

(Close)

Read more here: COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per the above; I'm old enough to remember an individual named Daniel Segretti who was Richard Nixon's "dirty tricks" specialist. One of the things he did was to write and print up pamphlets with content that was misleading and damaging to Nixon's political opponents and surreptitiously distribute them at opponents' rallies.

So you should know that until there is some evidence that OWS is the source of the pamphlets at issue their discovery should be viewed with suspicion. Keep in mind that the size and persistance of the OSW movement is such that it's gotten the attention of those who are sufficiently concerned as to resort to such "dirty tricks."

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

Not ignored.

Is there any evidence that the pamphlets were put AT OWS by anyone other THAN OWS?

Nope, no so far.

Possibility is not evidence of much of anything but possibility.

Yep. JT Ready. Read up on him

 

[Si modo]

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

Not ignored.

Is there any evidence that the pamphlets were put AT OWS by anyone other THAN OWS?

Nope, no so far.

Possibility is not evidence of much of anything but possibility.

Yep. JT Ready. Read up on him

Wharragggbl

 

[bodecea]

(Excerpt)

According to attorney Brian Glick in his book War at Home, the FBI used four main methods during COINTELPRO:

1.Infiltration: Agents and informers did not merely spy on political activists. Their main purpose was to discredit and disrupt. Their very presence served to undermine trust and scare off potential supporters. The FBI and police exploited this fear to smear genuine activists as agents.

2.Psychological Warfare From the Outside: The FBI and police used a myriad of other "dirty tricks" to undermine progressive movements. They planted false media stories and published bogus leaflets and other publications in the name of targeted groups. They forged correspondence, sent anonymous letters, and made anonymous telephone calls. They spread misinformation about meetings and events, set up pseudo movement groups run by government agents, and manipulated or strong-armed parents, employers, landlords, school officials and others to cause trouble for activists.

(Close)

Read more here: COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per the above; I'm old enough to remember an individual named Daniel Segretti who was Richard Nixon's "dirty tricks" specialist. One of the things he did was to write and print up pamphlets with content that was misleading and damaging to Nixon's political opponents and surreptitiously distribute them at opponents' rallies.

So you should know that until there is some evidence that OWS is the source of the pamphlets at issue their discovery should be viewed with suspicion. Keep in mind that the size and persistance of the OSW movement is such that it's gotten the attention of those who are sufficiently concerned as to resort to such "dirty tricks."

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

Not ignored.

Is there any evidence that the pamphlets were put AT OWS by anyone other THAN OWS?

Nope, no so far.

Possibility is not evidence of much of anything but possibility.

And...is there firm evidence that the phamphets were put out by OWS yet? Nope, no so far.

 

[Si modo]

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

Not ignored.

Is there any evidence that the pamphlets were put AT OWS by anyone other THAN OWS?

Nope, no so far.

Possibility is not evidence of much of anything but possibility.

And...is there firm evidence that the phamphets were put out by OWS yet? Nope, no so far.

I never said there was. I DID say there is no evidence that the pamphlets were put AT OWS by anyone other THAN OWS.

 

[chanel]

Neo-Nazis bring guns to the rally. Where is the media?

Armed citizen militia group US Border Guard is making its presence felt at the Occupy Phoenix demonstration to protect free speech rights, arguing that the second amendment prevents the state from abusing the first amendment.

The group has been labeled “neo-nazis” by the Southern Poverty Law Center, which is usually a demonization tactic, but the individual shown in the clip, “JT Ready” has attended neo-nazi rallies and is closely affiliated with the fringe National Socialist Party.

» Armed Citizen Militia Shows Up At Occupy Phoenix Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

 

[editec]

DIRTY tricks designed to besmirch the character of populist movements are as American as APPLE PIE and SATURATION BOMBING.

If you ever find yourself in a room of activists?

The person who most supports idea of violence and doing crime is PROBABLY working for some police organization.

But those people will NOT be the only types infiltrating the organization.

There will ALSO be one guy who makes it his mission to appear to be a very reasonable guy and one who is not violent.

In all likihood that guy will appear to be in diametirc opposition to the guy calling for violence and crime. They may even appear to hate one another.

That reasonable guy will be the agent sent to achieve a leadership position in the organization.

It will be his job to pass on information about the organization and if he can achieve it, to subtlely see to it that the organziation becomes a tool of the forces inflitrating it.

He'll probably not be there alone, but will have followers who will support him in order to see to it that he or she achieves a leading role in the organization.

Now the OWS movement is basically leaderless, far as I can tell.No body, far as I can tell, is the offical spokeman for this movement

But I would be very surprised if there wasn't agent provocateurs found in every site where the OWS movement is camped.

Never every EVER get involved in any politically motivated criminal conspiracy, folks.

Right or left wing, violent or non violent, it doesn't matter...just don't do it.

We live in a secret police state, folks. These people are masters of manipulation

For the average non involved citizen that doesn't much matter, but for activists of any kind, that is something you ought to never forget.

 

[chanel]

Perhaps you are right editec but the OWS prides itself on its "all inclusive" policy. The anarchists, the communists, the Neo-Nazis, the nutjobs, etc. are all welcome. Hence - they OWN it.

 

[editec]

Perhaps you are right editec but the OWS prides itself on its "all inclusive" policy. The anarchists, the communists, the Neo-Nazis, the nutjobs, etc. are all welcome. Hence - they OWN it.

Yes, that is true.

OWS has the same problem that the Tea Party movement had in that respect. The range of poltical beliefs in both popilist movements includes the most radical elements of their respective political spectrums.

Basically, the OWS movement is the political soup that has not yet eaten itself.

 

[Intense]

Perhaps you are right editec but the OWS prides itself on its "all inclusive" policy. The anarchists, the communists, the Neo-Nazis, the nutjobs, etc. are all welcome. Hence - they OWN it.

Yes, that is true.

OWS has the same problem that the Tea Party movement had in that respect. The range of poltical beliefs in both popilist movements includes the most radical elements of their respective political spectrums.

Basically, the OWS movement is the political soup that has not yet eaten itself.

More reason to have a better game plan.

 

[Navy1960]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0HNr2Y7B5c]Occupy Phoenix Veteran Protesters with AR-15's protecting the other protesters - YouTube[/ame]

Just as food for thought here, one must understand the nature of protests here in Phoenix, they tend to draw all kinds of people. While watching the news of the protesters in New York for example and trying to apply that same dynamic here, you would be making a big mistake. Arizona tends to draw people from both sides of every single issue. Perhaps, that might be a good reason why the Arizona DPS is not prointing the finger of blame at OWS on this issue just yet. I tend to believe and still do that vast majority of those young people there, with a few exceptions, have nothing but the best intentions and wish only for a better nation and for the most part feel the nation is heading in a direction that ignores its own people at the expense of others. The founders of our nations in my humble realized that people might feel this way from time to time and in their wisdom gave us the ability to voice that opinion amongst others. So for those young people as well as others there who have nothing but the best interntions, again even though I may not agree with all they stand for, they are just as American as I am, and just as passionate about the nation in which we live.

One thing to consider here, for the last decade our nation has spent in blood and money rebuilding other nations and often time at the expense of its very own citizens. Perhaps its time we focus that nation building effort on this nation where it belongs in the first place. So if they accomplish only to start a long needed conversation on that, then maybe just maybe these young people have done us all a good deed.

 

[MikeK]

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

Ignoring the patently obvious is a primary symptom of induced mind control (brainwash), which is the process by which ten-dollar-an-hour wage-slaves are turned into stooges in defense of the One Percent oligarchy.

 

[Si modo]

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

Ignoring the patently obvious is a primary symptom of induced mind control (brainwash), which is the process by which ten-dollar-an-hour wage-slaves are turned into stooges in defense of the One Percent oligarchy.

Yet, there is no evidence that the pamphlets AT OWS were put there by anyone other THAN OWS.

Speculation is not fact, nor is possibility.

 

[Seawytch]

I notice the next two posters completely ignored this sentence of yours.

Ignoring the patently obvious is a primary symptom of induced mind control (brainwash), which is the process by which ten-dollar-an-hour wage-slaves are turned into stooges in defense of the One Percent oligarchy.

Yet, there is no evidence that the pamphlets AT OWS were put there by anyone other THAN OWS.

Speculation is not fact, nor is possibility.

And still many want to paint the entire movement with the brush of these pamphlets (hence the OP of this thread) that nobody knows the origin of.

 

[Si modo]

Ignoring the patently obvious is a primary symptom of induced mind control (brainwash), which is the process by which ten-dollar-an-hour wage-slaves are turned into stooges in defense of the One Percent oligarchy.

Yet, there is no evidence that the pamphlets AT OWS were put there by anyone other THAN OWS.

Speculation is not fact, nor is possibility.

And still many want to paint the entire movement with the brush of these pamphlets (hence the OP of this thread) that nobody knows the origin of.

Yes, they do. As DO so many paint the TP as something they are not.

If you want folks to be rational, then don't sell out rationality for partisanship.