Obama's coalition is starting to crumble.

[The T]

Resolution 1973 says the US-French and UK planes attacking Libya represent a UN coalition.

Where in that resolution it is stated to bomb the Libyan Army and Ghaddafi's private real-estate ?

C'Mon ekrem? CM asked said more in his post. Interesting you didn't address it? Why?

Here is what you didn't address:

China and Russia both could have stopped this from happening with a Security Council Veto. They Both chose to abstain Knowing full well that meant a green light.

Now they are simply playing to their home audiences and trying to look like they are standing up to us when in fact they allowed us to do it.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

France....taking the lead.....laughing convulsively.

Libya shares a border with four French-speaking countries strategic to France: Tunisia, Algeria, Chad and Niger. France's Total Oil Company controls an important Libyan oil field for importation to France. The country also has a decent Air Force. What's to laugh at? They have a lot to lose.

European oil contracts with Libya equal roughly around 80-85 percent.

But.....it's a humanitarian mission, right?

 

[B. Kidd]

Peter Bergen on CNN: "I think the Arab League has buyer's remorse". Uh-Oh!!

 

[ekrem]

Germany isn't involved, and doesn't want to get involved (it wanted to stay neutral in the Iraq war also, opting instead to train Iraqis rather than send in soldiers). Thus far, the coalition backing the Libya operations are United States, Britain, France, Italy, Canada, Qatar, and United Arab Emirates, with Saudi Arabia and Jordan prepared to assist with air support as well.

UAE isn't involved. Only Qatar.

Jordan, S.Arabia will do nothing. They face threat of revolutions at home and won't participate in the bombings of Libya.

 

[California Girl]

Resolution 1973 says the US-French and UK planes attacking Libya represent a UN coalition.

Where in that resolution it is stated to bomb the Libyan Army and Ghaddafi's private real-estate ?

Security Council Approves ‘No-Fly Zone’ over Libya, Authorizing ‘All Necessary Measures’ to Protect Civilians, by Vote of 10 in Favour with 5 Abstentions

^^^^ That's the Resolution. According to internation law, it is broad enough to allow attacks on ground forces to ensure the safety of civilians. And... no one has attacked his private real-estate. Hysteria and hyperbole don't make facts. Facts are facts.

 

[MaggieMae]

Even Obama, said that he put this coalition together at the urgings of Sec. State Clinton. If this is not his coalition then who's is it? Currently the US has command and control in this operation. That means that Obama, is CinC. According to Sec. Def Gates, the US wants to pass this authority on in the next few days. So far there have been no takers. How about it California Girl, do you have evidence to the contrary? By the way do you really have to swear to make your point?

Remember liberals always blame conservatives for their own indiscretions.

We are, now, the lead MILITARY in the coalition... but the Brits and French put the coalition together, not Obama. We are the lead military because we're best at it. This is NOT Obama's coalition. It is Cameron's and Sarkozy's coalition. Get the fuck over yourselves. This is not the US, it is the UN.

Much as I would like to slam Obama, I actually (grudgingly) respect him for it. It must seriously piss him off that he's had to launch a military action.

It seriously does, I'm sure. After all, he's already taking heat for making the decision to send in additional troops to Afghanistan and having to watch THAT mess get even messier. I'm sure he didn't just wake up in the morning a few days ago and say "I think I'll really sabotage my chances at reelection and start a war with Libya!!"

 

[California Girl]

Peter Bergen on CNN: "I think the Arab League has buyer's remorse". Uh-Oh!!

The Arab League are saying one thing in public, and another in private. That's their way.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Even Obama, said that he put this coalition together at the urgings of Sec. State Clinton. If this is not his coalition then who's is it? Currently the US has command and control in this operation. That means that Obama, is CinC. According to Sec. Def Gates, the US wants to pass this authority on in the next few days. So far there have been no takers. How about it California Girl, do you have evidence to the contrary? By the way do you really have to swear to make your point?

Remember liberals always blame conservatives for their own indiscretions.

We are, now, the lead MILITARY in the coalition... but the Brits and French put the coalition together, not Obama. We are the lead military because we're best at it. This is NOT Obama's coalition. It is Cameron's and Sarkozy's coalition. Get the fuck over yourselves. This is not the US, it is the UN.

Much as I would like to slam Obama, I actually (grudgingly) respect him for it. It must seriously piss him off that he's had to launch a military action.

It seriously does, I'm sure. After all, he's already taking heat for making the decision to send in additional troops to Afghanistan and having to watch THAT mess get even messier. I'm sure he didn't just wake up in the morning a few days ago and say "I think I'll really sabotage my chances at reelection and start a war with Libya!!"

Maybe not, but we did sign off on this in record time.

 

[MaggieMae]

We are, now, the lead MILITARY in the coalition... but the Brits and French put the coalition together, not Obama. We are the lead military because we're best at it. This is NOT Obama's coalition. It is Cameron's and Sarkozy's coalition. Get the fuck over yourselves. This is not the US, it is the UN.

Much as I would like to slam Obama, I actually (grudgingly) respect him for it. It must seriously piss him off that he's had to launch a military action.

It isn't a UN coalition.
It is USA-UK-France.

French jets striked 1st, they were already in the air once Sarkozy made the final statement of Paris meeting.
Some NATO countries have committed aircraft to the operation like Denmark and Norway, and Italy is key in all of this as it contributes with Air-bases.

Italy is already threatening to review the status of its Airbases.
Norway says, that its aircraft won't take-off for now since some differences have been resolved.

@Avatar
Germany isn't participating, it has objections.

I wonder who's making decisions for Italy? Do they know which brothel they can find Berlusconi these days?

 

[California Girl]

Even Obama, said that he put this coalition together at the urgings of Sec. State Clinton. If this is not his coalition then who's is it? Currently the US has command and control in this operation. That means that Obama, is CinC. According to Sec. Def Gates, the US wants to pass this authority on in the next few days. So far there have been no takers. How about it California Girl, do you have evidence to the contrary? By the way do you really have to swear to make your point?

Remember liberals always blame conservatives for their own indiscretions.

We are, now, the lead MILITARY in the coalition... but the Brits and French put the coalition together, not Obama. We are the lead military because we're best at it. This is NOT Obama's coalition. It is Cameron's and Sarkozy's coalition. Get the fuck over yourselves. This is not the US, it is the UN.

Much as I would like to slam Obama, I actually (grudgingly) respect him for it. It must seriously piss him off that he's had to launch a military action.

It seriously does, I'm sure. After all, he's already taking heat for making the decision to send in additional troops to Afghanistan and having to watch THAT mess get even messier. I'm sure he didn't just wake up in the morning a few days ago and say "I think I'll really sabotage my chances at reelection and start a war with Libya!!"

Obama is a spineless coward... when it comes to military action. He's just found out what it really means to be President of the most powerful nation on earth. And I don't think he likes it.

 

[B. Kidd]

Peter Bergen on CNN: "I think the Arab League has buyer's remorse". Uh-Oh!!

The Arab League are saying one thing in public, and another in private. That's their way.

The most significant decision the Arab League has ever made that is providing cover for starting military action against Libya and now they're buckling?
What a shaky premise.
WTH was/is Obama thinking?

 

[B. Kidd]

We are, now, the lead MILITARY in the coalition... but the Brits and French put the coalition together, not Obama. We are the lead military because we're best at it. This is NOT Obama's coalition. It is Cameron's and Sarkozy's coalition. Get the fuck over yourselves. This is not the US, it is the UN.

Much as I would like to slam Obama, I actually (grudgingly) respect him for it. It must seriously piss him off that he's had to launch a military action.

It isn't a UN coalition.
It is USA-UK-France.

French jets striked 1st, they were already in the air once Sarkozy made the final statement of Paris meeting.
Some NATO countries have committed aircraft to the operation like Denmark and Norway, and Italy is key in all of this as it contributes with Air-bases.

Italy is already threatening to review the status of its Airbases.
Norway says, that its aircraft won't take-off for now since some differences have been resolved.

@Avatar
Germany isn't participating, it has objections.

I wonder who's making decisions for Italy? Do they know which brothel they can find Berlusconi these days?

I heard he's attending a bunga-bunga party at Douger's hacienda. I was invited but couldn't make it.

 

[MaggieMae]

Even Obama, said that he put this coalition together at the urgings of Sec. State Clinton. If this is not his coalition then who's is it? Currently the US has command and control in this operation. That means that Obama, is CinC. According to Sec. Def Gates, the US wants to pass this authority on in the next few days. So far there have been no takers. How about it California Girl, do you have evidence to the contrary? By the way do you really have to swear to make your point?

Remember liberals always blame conservatives for their own indiscretions.

We are, now, the lead MILITARY in the coalition... but the Brits and French put the coalition together, not Obama. We are the lead military because we're best at it. This is NOT Obama's coalition. It is Cameron's and Sarkozy's coalition. Get the fuck over yourselves. This is not the US, it is the UN.

Much as I would like to slam Obama, I actually (grudgingly) respect him for it. It must seriously piss him off that he's had to launch a military action.

How can you respect Obama for this coalition when this hasn't played out yet?

How much active Arab participation is there in the no-fly zone?
Is it clear yet in the Arab streets mind that the attack on Libya is an attack on a tyrant (despite what the U.N. resolution says) and not an attack on the Arab world?

One thing is clear. No partner in this coalition wants to assume leadership in this campaign. We are hiding behind the Europeans and both are using the Arab league (gulp!) as cover.
This may not end pretty.

What are you talking about? It's nice to see the Arab nations coming to our defense for a change. It most certainly would NOT end pretty if there were anti-American protests all over the Arab regions.

 

[gautama]

It's not Obama's coalition. Seriously, must people be so fucking stupid?

he can't help being what he is.

that's what braindead hacks do.

Changing the gender in your post fits you perfectly.

 

[The T]

We don't even know who these so called rebels really are other than what our sad news tells us. I'm just not buying this humanitarian dig. Too many corollaries can be drawn to the opposition of such an argument.

First question I have? WHO are the Rebels in Libya? Are they freedom fighters? Folks who want Democracy? Capitalism? Are the Muslims? Mixed?

A couple of friends of mine who work in oil contracting in Libya have told me that they're pretty unsavory characters. But I really have no idea of their ambitions. You've got equally reprehensible factions ready to fill a vacuum. It ain't gonna be pleasant.

I concur. I am asking questions I really haven't seen addressed.

I do know that France has Officially recgnized the Rebels as the legitimate Government...and that the Rebels tried to form another Oil Company to circumvent Mo-Mo...

 

[ekrem]

I wonder who's making decisions for Italy? Do they know which brothel they can find Berlusconi these days?

NATO meeting ended.
NATO ambassadors won't meet again, they've failed to agree on formula for 2 days.
Italy threatens with the Airbases, if NATO doesn't assume command.
Obama will now telephone the key countries in this mess. Then, NATO might meet again.

Germany and Turkey block NATO's involvement in Libya.
Germany also won't allow the EU to assume command in Libya.

USA-UK-France simply bombed without consultation.

 

[yota5]

We are, now, the lead MILITARY in the coalition... but the Brits and French put the coalition together, not Obama. We are the lead military because we're best at it. This is NOT Obama's coalition. It is Cameron's and Sarkozy's coalition. Get the fuck over yourselves. This is not the US, it is the UN.

Much as I would like to slam Obama, I actually (grudgingly) respect him for it. It must seriously piss him off that he's had to launch a military action.

It isn't a UN coalition.
It is USA-UK-France.

French jets striked 1st, they were already in the air once Sarkozy made the final statement of Paris meeting.
Some NATO countries have committed aircraft to the operation like Denmark and Norway, and Italy is key in all of this as it contributes with Air-bases.

Italy is already threatening to review the status of its Airbases.
Norway says, that its aircraft won't take-off for now since some differences have been resolved.

@Avatar
Germany isn't participating, it has objections.

The coalition came together to support the UN Resolution, giving military action the 'go'. Germany never participate on offensive ops.... their military still operate under post-WWII rules that they have not changed. Those rules, effectively, stop Germany from any kind of action other than defense. They'll support the action behind the scenes, as they usually do. Same with all the rest. The hard work, as always, falls to the few, including:

UNITED STATES
· Submarines Providence, Scranton and Florida launching Tomahawks.

· Destroyers Barry and Stout launching Tomahawks.

· Amphibious assault ships Kearsarge and Ponce, carrying Marines of the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU).

· Command ship Mount Whitney.

· Support ships Lewis and Clark, Robert E. Peary and Kanawha.

· U.S. Navy aircraft include EA-18G Growler electronic air warfare aircraft, at least four P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft and one EP-3E Aries electronic surveillance aircraft, all flying from land bases in the Mediterranean. Marine Corps AV-8B Harrier jets are operating from the Kearsarge.

· Air Force aircraft include B-2 stealth bombers flying from Missouri and F-15 and F-16 fighters from unspecified bases.

· The Bataan Amphibious Ready Group will deploy from Norfolk,Va., on March 23 ahead of schedule to support Odyssey Dawn operations. The group includes the amphibious ships Bataan, Mesa Verde and Whidbey Island carrying the 22nd MEU.

FRANCE
· Aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle left its base at Toulon March 20 en route to waters off Libya. De Gaulle is carrying 20 aircraft, including Rafale and Super Etendard strike fighters, and is escorted by the destroyers Dupleix and Forbin, frigate Aconit, oiler La Meuse, and an unnamed nuclear attack submarine.

· Destroyer Jean Bart already on the scene.

· French land-based strike aircraft spearheaded the March 19 attacks on Libya.

ITALY
· Destroyer Andrea Doria Frigate Euro Support ship Etna As of early March 20, more ships were to be en route from Italy: Destroyer Francesco Mimbelli; frigate Fenice; patrol ships Libra and Sirio; amphibious ships San Giorgio and San Marco.

· At least 4 Tornado strike aircraft and 4 other combat aircraft are available.

CANADA
· Frigate Charlottetown Six CF-18 Hornet strike fighters Canada's forces are operating as part of Operation Mobile.

UNITED KINGDOM
· Unnamed Trafalgar-class nuclear attack submarine launching Tomahawks.

· Frigates Westminster and Cumberland.

· Typhoon and Tornado strike aircraft operating from Gioia del Colle air base in southern Italy. Tornado GR4s with Storm Shadow cruise missiles took place in the initial strikes on March 19, flying from the Royal Air Force (RAF) base at Marham in Norfolk, eastern England. Agence France-Presse reported the aircraft conducted four mid-air refueling operations during the 3,000-mile, eight-hour mission, the longest Royal Air Force bombing mission since the 1982 Falklands war. The British effort against Libya is dubbed Operation Ellamy.

· Additionally, E3-D Sentry, Sentinel and Tristar surveillance aircraft and VC-10 aerial tankers are operating.

BELGIUM
· Six F-16 fighters to be ready for operations March 21.

DENMARK
· Six F-16 fighters and a transport are operating from Sigonella air base on Sicily.

QATAR
· Four combat aircraft reportedly are in operation by March 20.

SPAIN
· Four F-18 strike fighters are operating from Decimomannu air base on the Italian island of Sardinia.

· One aerial tanker and one CN-235 maritime surveillance plane.

· A submarine and frigate are to deploy this week pending parliamentary approval, according to Deutsche Presse-Agentur.

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
· Strike aircraft are reported en route to Decimomannu air base.

The U.S. aircraft carrier Enterprise, which recently passed through the Mediterranean, is now in the Arabian Sea conducting air operations over Afghanistan for Operation Enduring Freedom.

List came from here: Coalition Against Gadhafi Growing - Defense News

That is an accurate assessment as to who is doing what with what. Germany's role in this operation is a little ambiguous. The mission of the Bundeswehr has been expanded to protect German interests anywhere in the world.

"The role of the Bundeswehr is described in the Constitution of Germany (Art. 87a) as absolutely defensive only. Its only active role before 1990 was the Katastropheneinsatz (disaster control). Within the Bundeswehr, it helped after natural disasters both in Germany and abroad. After 1990, the international situation changed from East-West confrontation to one of general uncertainty and instability. Today, after a ruling of the Federal Constitutional Court in 1994 the term "defense" has been defined to not only include protection of the borders of Germany, but also crisis reaction and conflict prevention, or more broadly as guarding the security of Germany anywhere in the world. According to the definition given by former Defense Minister Struck, it may be necessary to defend Germany even at the Hindu Kush. This requires the Bundeswehr to take part in operations outside of the borders of Germany, as part of NATO or the European Union and mandated by the UN."

 

[MaggieMae]

How can you respect Obama for this coalition when this hasn't played out yet?

How much active Arab participation is there in the no-fly zone?
Is it clear yet in the Arab streets mind that the attack on Libya is an attack on a tyrant (despite what the U.N. resolution says) and not an attack on the Arab world?

One thing is clear. No partner in this coalition wants to assume leadership in this campaign. We are hiding behind the Europeans and both are using the Arab league (gulp!) as cover.
This may not end pretty.

Britain wants NATO to take over but France does not, and Italy is threatening to rethink its participation unless NATO takes command.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/africa/22nato.html?_r=1&src=twrhp
Italy is key with its airbases.

Only Qatar, which represents 0.1% of Muslim world population has commited to the operation. With 4 Aircraft.

I believe the UAE has also committed. I don't know how many planes they have, but if not enough, that little Arab country is so rich, it could purchase a dozen or so from China for overnight delivery.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

First question I have? WHO are the Rebels in Libya? Are they freedom fighters? Folks who want Democracy? Capitalism? Are the Muslims? Mixed?

A couple of friends of mine who work in oil contracting in Libya have told me that they're pretty unsavory characters. But I really have no idea of their ambitions. You've got equally reprehensible factions ready to fill a vacuum. It ain't gonna be pleasant.

I concur. I am asking questions I really haven't seen addressed.

I do know that France has Officially recgnized the Rebels as the legitimate Government...and that the Rebels tried to form another Oil Company to circumvent Mo-Mo...

Same here. I haven't seen them addressed.

 

[MaggieMae]

We are, now, the lead MILITARY in the coalition... but the Brits and French put the coalition together, not Obama. We are the lead military because we're best at it. This is NOT Obama's coalition. It is Cameron's and Sarkozy's coalition. Get the fuck over yourselves. This is not the US, it is the UN.

Much as I would like to slam Obama, I actually (grudgingly) respect him for it. It must seriously piss him off that he's had to launch a military action.

It isn't a UN coalition.
It is USA-UK-France.

French jets striked 1st, they were already in the air once Sarkozy made the final statement of Paris meeting.
Some NATO countries have committed aircraft to the operation like Denmark and Norway, and Italy is key in all of this as it contributes with Air-bases.

Italy is already threatening to review the status of its Airbases.
Norway says, that its aircraft won't take-off for now since some differences have been resolved.

@Avatar
Germany isn't participating, it has objections.

The coalition came together to support the UN Resolution, giving military action the 'go'. Germany never participate on offensive ops.... their military still operate under post-WWII rules that they have not changed. Those rules, effectively, stop Germany from any kind of action other than defense. They'll support the action behind the scenes, as they usually do. Same with all the rest. The hard work, as always, falls to the few, including:

UNITED STATES
· Submarines Providence, Scranton and Florida launching Tomahawks.

· Destroyers Barry and Stout launching Tomahawks.

· Amphibious assault ships Kearsarge and Ponce, carrying Marines of the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU).

· Command ship Mount Whitney.

· Support ships Lewis and Clark, Robert E. Peary and Kanawha.

· U.S. Navy aircraft include EA-18G Growler electronic air warfare aircraft, at least four P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft and one EP-3E Aries electronic surveillance aircraft, all flying from land bases in the Mediterranean. Marine Corps AV-8B Harrier jets are operating from the Kearsarge.

· Air Force aircraft include B-2 stealth bombers flying from Missouri and F-15 and F-16 fighters from unspecified bases.

· The Bataan Amphibious Ready Group will deploy from Norfolk,Va., on March 23 ahead of schedule to support Odyssey Dawn operations. The group includes the amphibious ships Bataan, Mesa Verde and Whidbey Island carrying the 22nd MEU.

FRANCE
· Aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle left its base at Toulon March 20 en route to waters off Libya. De Gaulle is carrying 20 aircraft, including Rafale and Super Etendard strike fighters, and is escorted by the destroyers Dupleix and Forbin, frigate Aconit, oiler La Meuse, and an unnamed nuclear attack submarine.

· Destroyer Jean Bart already on the scene.

· French land-based strike aircraft spearheaded the March 19 attacks on Libya.

ITALY
· Destroyer Andrea Doria Frigate Euro Support ship Etna As of early March 20, more ships were to be en route from Italy: Destroyer Francesco Mimbelli; frigate Fenice; patrol ships Libra and Sirio; amphibious ships San Giorgio and San Marco.

· At least 4 Tornado strike aircraft and 4 other combat aircraft are available.

CANADA
· Frigate Charlottetown Six CF-18 Hornet strike fighters Canada's forces are operating as part of Operation Mobile.

UNITED KINGDOM
· Unnamed Trafalgar-class nuclear attack submarine launching Tomahawks.

· Frigates Westminster and Cumberland.

· Typhoon and Tornado strike aircraft operating from Gioia del Colle air base in southern Italy. Tornado GR4s with Storm Shadow cruise missiles took place in the initial strikes on March 19, flying from the Royal Air Force (RAF) base at Marham in Norfolk, eastern England. Agence France-Presse reported the aircraft conducted four mid-air refueling operations during the 3,000-mile, eight-hour mission, the longest Royal Air Force bombing mission since the 1982 Falklands war. The British effort against Libya is dubbed Operation Ellamy.

· Additionally, E3-D Sentry, Sentinel and Tristar surveillance aircraft and VC-10 aerial tankers are operating.

BELGIUM
· Six F-16 fighters to be ready for operations March 21.

DENMARK
· Six F-16 fighters and a transport are operating from Sigonella air base on Sicily.

QATAR
· Four combat aircraft reportedly are in operation by March 20.

SPAIN
· Four F-18 strike fighters are operating from Decimomannu air base on the Italian island of Sardinia.

· One aerial tanker and one CN-235 maritime surveillance plane.

· A submarine and frigate are to deploy this week pending parliamentary approval, according to Deutsche Presse-Agentur.

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
· Strike aircraft are reported en route to Decimomannu air base.

The U.S. aircraft carrier Enterprise, which recently passed through the Mediterranean, is now in the Arabian Sea conducting air operations over Afghanistan for Operation Enduring Freedom.

List came from here: Coalition Against Gadhafi Growing - Defense News

If that doesn't give G-daffy a severe case of permanent diarrhea, I don't know what would.